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Cemetary Caretaker, Negative encounter WWYD?


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First, let me say~ I am new to Geocaching. I have only 17 finds and have had 1 only experience with a "muggle," which was easily deflected as it was in a park.

Well....This afternoon, before heading home from picking something up at my folks' place~ I decided to do a quick Cache.

This one was a cemetary find on my way home. When I pulled into the Cemetery, I heard a mower going....but did not see anyone nearby. Looking back on the situation, I should have probably made sure everything was deserted completely.. but I didn't

Like many of the cemetery caches I have done, this one was on the outer perimeter of the property~ not even remotely close to any markers (as it should be out of respect). It was fairly easy to slip into the wooded boundary and locate the Cache. After signing the log and returning things where I found them, I casually meandered back to my car. I was about 20 feet away from it when this older gentleman rides up behind me on a mower, shuts it off, and very gruffly asks me what I was doing. Assuming that his was the mower I heard and that he was a caretaker....I decided to just try to explain truthfully rather than making up a story (I did not want him to think I was doing anything illegal). I tried to be polite, but he barely listened to the first 15 words I had to say before raising his voice at me & telling me I HAD NO BUSINESS doing what I was doing and that he didn't care who was hiding what, and that I needed to make THEM STOP (as if I personally knew the Cache owner)!!!! He then said I was crazy to be going into any wooded area to "meet someone" without knowing who they were (little did he know -or probably care- that I am a hiker and do it all the time). I also never said I was meeting anyone (it was clear he was not listening to my explanation of what Geocaching is) . I finally told him that he should look up Geocaching on the Internet to learn more about it and there wasn't much more I could tell him (because he obviously wasn't listening to me).

In retrospect, I always hope that people are getting permission before placing Caches such as this one (it was a nice find). I left feeling angry and frustrated and honestly.....wondering if I should continue caching (as I have really come to enjoy it).I do not mean harm, nor want to get into "trouble," ...and yet I don't feel this guy had any intention of being pleasant with me OR really listening to what I had to say. He had his mind made up that I was up to no good and that left me feeling defensive & annoyed.

I haven't yet logged anything onto the Cache page for this find as I have mixed feelings about sharing this experience (or being associated with a placement that clearly isn't wanted). I am assuming this guy was a caretaker there, but do not know in what (if any) other capacity he might be involved with the cemetery.

So my question to more experienced Cachers.....what would you have done?

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Needs archived with full description of the encounter. The cache owner probably didn't get permission to place it there.

I'd probably log an NA too, but make sure you keep things factual and don't pass judgement on the cache or its owner. For all you know, the owner could have originally received permission and the situation has changed since then. Regardless, it sounds like this isn't a spot that geocachers should be visiting anymore, so the cache needs to go.

 

As for dealing with a muggle like that, there really isn't much more you could have done. Sometimes people get so wound up and focused on a preconceived notion of what you're doing that no amount of explanation will satisfy them. I've been in a similar situation before and all I could really do was let them vent until they ran out of breath, and then I picked up the container and left to log an NA. It certainly isn't a comfortable situation, so let's hope this was the only time you experience something like that in your caching career and you've gotten it out of the way early. :lol:

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I would have written up the encounter in my "found it" note and maybe sent a private note to the owner as well.

Not sure about the NA. I don't know the laws in WI but most places cemeteries allow public access. If I were the cache owner I would want to know about this and I might go and have a personal chat with this "caretaker" or whatever, and then maybe another conversation with whoever is responsible for the cemetery about hiring people who threaten members of the general public.

But you seem like a much nicer person than I am :grin: so I hope you will just move on and not give up on this fantastic activity!

You are exactly the type of person we need in the game!

Edited by hukilaulau
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Just because a cemetery allows public access does not mean that there is permission to place a container there - and just because a worker had problems does not mean that permission was not obtained. I would describe what happened in the log so that the CO (and future cachers) were aware of the situation.

 

I probably would not write an NA log unless there were other logs indicating problems with that location. I might contact the CO and reviewer independently so that the cache could be monitored. The reviewer could make further inquiries but at that point I would think I have done enough.

 

I have approached by land owners, security, or other people over the years. It happens. Sometimes it is not pleasant. Sometimes they have ended up helping me look. Hopefully it is not something that will detract from other aspects of the game.

Edited by geodarts
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Thank You very much for all of your thoughtful responses. I can assure everyone that what I've posted here is truthful. I did send a contact email to the Cache owner with a copy/paste of what I wrote here (I did let him/her know I posted this question on the forum). I still have not left a note in the Cache details page as I do not want to discourage others from looking if the owner did, indeed, have permission to place the Cache. I'm thinking it's possible that this caretaker may be different from whomever might have given permission. I'm hoping that if the owner had permission, they can contact that person and relay what happened...perhaps straighten things out--or not. Otherwise, perhaps they will decide to move the Cache elsewhere and disable that location. At any rate, I don't want to ruin things if the owner did, somehow, have permission and all parties involved with the cemetery were not notified.

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He then said I was crazy to be going into any wooded area to "meet someone" without knowing who they were (little did he know -or probably care- that I am a hiker and do it all the time). I also never said I was meeting anyone (it was clear he was not listening to my explanation of what Geocaching is) . I finally told him that he should look up Geocaching on the Internet to learn more about it and there wasn't much more I could tell him (because he obviously wasn't listening to me).

 

I can only imagine what he was thinking. :( Did you tell him that rest areas and parks are some of the best places to find these "geocaches"? :lol:

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I probably wouldn't get in the middle of this mess. If this gentleman wants it gone, he wants it gone, and probably no amount of explanation is going to change his mind. Doesn't matter if he has authority or not. Doesn't matter if the cache owner got permission or not. I probably wouldn't go back, as he might come at you with a rake or shovel, but for future reference, just print out the Help Center article with Groundspeak contact information. In most cases, the Listing will be Archived the same day. Link for reference:

 

https://www.geocaching.com/help/index.php?pg=kb.chapter&id=93&pgid=431

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I probably wouldn't get in the middle of this mess. If this gentleman wants it gone, he wants it gone, and probably no amount of explanation is going to change his mind. Doesn't matter if he has authority or not. Doesn't matter if the cache owner got permission or not.
Yep. There have been caches around here that have been archived when an irate neighbor harassed geocachers repeatedly. Never mind that the geocache was placed in a public park, with an official geocaching policy, in compliance with that policy. Never mind that the geocachers parked on public streets, used public sidewalks, and visited a public park. The irate neighbor wanted them (and the geocache) gone.
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Needs archived with full description of the encounter. The cache owner probably didn't get permission to place it there.

I'd probably log an NA too, but make sure you keep things factual and don't pass judgement on the cache or its owner. For all you know, the owner could have originally received permission and the situation has changed since then. Regardless, it sounds like this isn't a spot that geocachers should be visiting anymore, so the cache needs to go.

+1

We've known some who had issues with caretakers of cemeteries, most seemed to be recent vandalism (toppled headstones, tire tracks, booze bottles...) that got things heated, when all was fine weeks earlier.

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I would have written up the encounter in my "found it" note and maybe sent a private note to the owner as well.

Not sure about the NA. I don't know the laws in WI but most places cemeteries allow public access. If I were the cache owner I would want to know about this and I might go and have a personal chat with this "caretaker" or whatever, and then maybe another conversation with whoever is responsible for the cemetery about hiring people who threaten members of the general public.

But you seem like a much nicer person than I am :grin: so I hope you will just move on and not give up on this fantastic activity!

You are exactly the type of person we need in the game!

 

Angry land managers and staff are a serious concern that should always be brought to a reviewer's attention, promptly.

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I would have written up the encounter in my "found it" note and maybe sent a private note to the owner as well.

Not sure about the NA. I don't know the laws in WI but most places cemeteries allow public access. If I were the cache owner I would want to know about this and I might go and have a personal chat with this "caretaker" or whatever, and then maybe another conversation with whoever is responsible for the cemetery about hiring people who threaten members of the general public.

But you seem like a much nicer person than I am :grin: so I hope you will just move on and not give up on this fantastic activity!

You are exactly the type of person we need in the game!

 

Angry land managers and staff are a serious concern that should always be brought to a reviewer's attention, promptly.

 

That's true, and the next encounter with this guy could be much worse.

 

I would log a find (you did find it?) explaining the encounter and mark it as an NA. If the CO doesn't have permission to place it there then it should be archived - no question; If the CO is nolonger active and not taking any interest in the cache then it should also be archived. If the CO does have permission from the owner but they haven't told their gardener about it then the CO can ask the landowners to put the word out and they can explain that in an note on the cache page and that should be taken into consideration to leave it in place.

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Well, cemeteries are my favorite type of cache call me weird I know lol. I think the best time to go and do this type of caches are during weekends specially Sunday mornings, no one is around and you can be free worried of muggles. Sometimes I've also have a flower with me in my GeoBag if by any chance there is a muggle I can be stealthy, if there is too many people looking at what I'm doing I'll just go and come back another time.

 

Now I agree that you shouldn't let this pass, log the cache and share your experience so others can be aware and also send a message to the CO he/she might answer you back with and answer or a solution.

 

Keep doing what you are doing and don't let anyone not let you have fun in this World of Geocaching! :anicute:

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The cache owner probably didn't get permission to place it there.

 

Because a guy on a mower is a known authoritative source for prior permission. laugh.gif

I wonder if my landscaping crew questions my mailman?

 

My last negative experience was from a volunteer Church worker that felt it was their business to block my vehicle and question what I was doing with the thing that looked like a bird house.

 

I used to attempt explaining geocaching, but not any more. Our hobby is just too weird for some to grasp and easily misunderstood as the OP has explained in their negative experience where the person thought he was meeting strange men in the woods. :laughing:

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Well, cemeteries are my favorite type of cache call me weird I know lol. I think the best time to go and do this type of caches are during weekends specially Sunday mornings, no one is around and you can be free worried of muggles. Sometimes I've also have a flower with me in my GeoBag if by any chance there is a muggle I can be stealthy, if there is too many people looking at what I'm doing I'll just go and come back another time.

 

Now I agree that you shouldn't let this pass, log the cache and share your experience so others can be aware and also send a message to the CO he/she might answer you back with and answer or a solution.

 

Keep doing what you are doing and don't let anyone not let you have fun in this World of Geocaching! :anicute:

 

I love cemetery caches too, but if geocachers are being chased off the cemetery by angry staff, that's a pretty big problem. Cemeteries may be open to the public, but permission is still needed to place caches there. Needs archived and let the reviewer investigate the situation so nobody else is put into a dicey situation.

 

Sometimes, even when permission does exist, we have to concede that a geocache isn't feasible if it is putting our fellow geocachers at risk of these run-ins. Sometimes there just isn't much you can do about a staff member, a security guard, or a neighbour who is going to be unhinged.

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I love cemetery caches too, but if geocachers are being chased off the cemetery by angry staff, that's a pretty big problem. Cemeteries may be open to the public, but permission is still needed to place caches there. Needs archived and let the reviewer investigate the situation so nobody else is put into a dicey situation.

 

Sometimes, even when permission does exist, we have to concede that a geocache isn't feasible if it is putting our fellow geocachers at risk of these run-ins. Sometimes there just isn't much you can do about a staff member, a security guard, or a neighbour who is going to be unhinged.

 

Cemetery hides are already banned in Tennessee and South Carolina, or at least will no longer be published on this site, and I see where Cemetery hides are problematic.

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I love cemetery caches too, but if geocachers are being chased off the cemetery by angry staff, that's a pretty big problem. Cemeteries may be open to the public, but permission is still needed to place caches there. Needs archived and let the reviewer investigate the situation so nobody else is put into a dicey situation.

 

Sometimes, even when permission does exist, we have to concede that a geocache isn't feasible if it is putting our fellow geocachers at risk of these run-ins. Sometimes there just isn't much you can do about a staff member, a security guard, or a neighbour who is going to be unhinged.

 

Cemetery hides are already banned in Tennessee and South Carolina, or at least will no longer be published on this site, and I see where Cemetery hides are problematic.

 

I dislike and avoid cemetery hides.

 

Feels wrong to me to be playing games around and above people's final resting places.

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I love cemetery caches too, but if geocachers are being chased off the cemetery by angry staff, that's a pretty big problem. Cemeteries may be open to the public, but permission is still needed to place caches there. Needs archived and let the reviewer investigate the situation so nobody else is put into a dicey situation.

 

Sometimes, even when permission does exist, we have to concede that a geocache isn't feasible if it is putting our fellow geocachers at risk of these run-ins. Sometimes there just isn't much you can do about a staff member, a security guard, or a neighbour who is going to be unhinged.

 

Cemetery hides are already banned in Tennessee and South Carolina, or at least will no longer be published on this site, and I see where Cemetery hides are problematic.

 

I dislike and avoid cemetery hides.

 

Feels wrong to me to be playing games around and above people's final resting places.

 

And it's actually a felony to do so in Tennessee. No playing games of amusement in cemeteries.

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For all you know, the owner could have originally received permission and the situation has changed since then.

 

I had a cache I placed, with building management permission, on a scenic bridge in an office park. Problem was, security apparently was not "in on it" and took issue with a couple folks who came to look for it. Sometimes permission is meaningless in the end since those who are there to enforce or monitor the property may not look kindly on this activity. I ended up moving it away from the area that was causing issues.

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And it's actually a felony to do so in Tennessee. No playing games of amusement in cemeteries.

 

According to http://www.dumblaws.com/laws/united-states/tennessee there are plenty of silly laws in TN as well as other states.

 

Whoo Hoo! Found this in South Carolina: "When approaching a four way or blind intersection in a non-horse driven vehicle you must stop 100 ft from the intersection and discharge a firearm into the air to warn horse traffic." Now that I can deal with. :D Just no geocaching in cemeteries. B)

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Just an update.....I went ahead and logged the Cache and reported the issue. I emailed the Cache owner yesterday....and upon further investigation,it looks like they live a couple hours away (so it's unlikely it will receive any immediate attention). They have not, thus far, contacted me back. I included a very brief synopsis of the problem and a caution to anyone who might go looking. I certainly do not want to see anyone else have the same encounter I did...or worse get hurt (or in trouble if permission was not granted).

As for cemetery caches~ I don't have a problem with them as long as they are away from the grave sites and folks are respectful. I would never go searching if someone was there mourning a loved one or a funeral was in progress. In the future, I will avoid proceeding at all unless a cemetery is completely empty.

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I guess I sort of assumed from your original post that this was a fairly new cache...but now I see that it was published in April 2009. Over eight years old and it seems like you many be the first person to encounter this issue. Not saying you don't have a case for archival, but it seems a little hard to believe that this issue wouldn't be worked out by this time. The guy that gave you trouble may not be a regular there...?

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I guess I sort of assumed from your original post that this was a fairly new cache...but now I see that it was published in April 2009. Over eight years old and it seems like you many be the first person to encounter this issue. Not saying you don't have a case for archival, but it seems a little hard to believe that this issue wouldn't be worked out by this time. The guy that gave you trouble may not be a regular there...?

 

Honestly, I don't want to see it archived....it was a nice cache and it was in a good spot. I think it's a very strong possibility that the Cache owner did have permission and the guy that gave me trouble just wanted to pick an argument with me. I was VERY polite with him and he was a complete jerk to me....perhaps he's just someone who hates life.

 

This particular Cache owner has quite a few Caches in this area. I know I have found at least one other from the same person. No problem there.

Edited by Tabbycattracks
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I love cemetery caches too, but if geocachers are being chased off the cemetery by angry staff, that's a pretty big problem. Cemeteries may be open to the public, but permission is still needed to place caches there. Needs archived and let the reviewer investigate the situation so nobody else is put into a dicey situation.

 

Sometimes, even when permission does exist, we have to concede that a geocache isn't feasible if it is putting our fellow geocachers at risk of these run-ins. Sometimes there just isn't much you can do about a staff member, a security guard, or a neighbour who is going to be unhinged.

 

Cemetery hides are already banned in Tennessee and South Carolina, or at least will no longer be published on this site, and I see where Cemetery hides are problematic.

 

I dislike and avoid cemetery hides.

 

Feels wrong to me to be playing games around and above people's final resting places.

 

And it's actually a felony to do so in Tennessee. No playing games of amusement in cemeteries.

 

I'm usually only amused if I FIND the cache, otherwise I'm usually disappointed.

 

So, is it OK as long as I file a DNF?

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I guess I sort of assumed from your original post that this was a fairly new cache...but now I see that it was published in April 2009. Over eight years old and it seems like you many be the first person to encounter this issue. Not saying you don't have a case for archival, but it seems a little hard to believe that this issue wouldn't be worked out by this time. The guy that gave you trouble may not be a regular there...?

I recently had a homeowner encounter while hunting a cache the CO hid in their backyard in 2009, right before they moved out of state in 2010. Sometimes one just gets "lucky."

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I love cemetery caches too, but if geocachers are being chased off the cemetery by angry staff, that's a pretty big problem. Cemeteries may be open to the public, but permission is still needed to place caches there. Needs archived and let the reviewer investigate the situation so nobody else is put into a dicey situation.

 

Sometimes, even when permission does exist, we have to concede that a geocache isn't feasible if it is putting our fellow geocachers at risk of these run-ins. Sometimes there just isn't much you can do about a staff member, a security guard, or a neighbour who is going to be unhinged.

 

Cemetery hides are already banned in Tennessee and South Carolina, or at least will no longer be published on this site, and I see where Cemetery hides are problematic.

 

I dislike and avoid cemetery hides.

 

Feels wrong to me to be playing games around and above people's final resting places.

There is no arguing with a person's feelings but I will point out that since the 1830's, the beginning of the "rural" cemetery movement in North America (rural as opposed the churchyard,) cemeteries have been regarded as a place for recreation for the living as well as final resting places for the dead. Laurel Hill cemetery in Philadelphia will be presenting performances of Hamlet next month along with many other events (even yoga)

This is from the Laurel Hill history page:

"Since the earliest days of Laurel Hill, the founders and managers of the Cemetery recognized the great potential for recreation that the rural, picturesque site held. Laurel Hill preceded New York’s Central Park by more than two decades, and was most certainly an inspiration for Philadelphia’s Fairmount Park. Picnics, strolls, carriage rides and sightseeing were popular pastimes in Laurel Hill’s early days, when “nearly 30,000 persons…entered the gates between April and December, 1848.” The site continues to remain a favored retreat for tourists, joggers, bicyclists, nature lovers, sketch artists and amateur photographers."

 

There are many other such cemeteries in North America.

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Honestly, I don't want to see it archived....it was a nice cache and it was in a good spot. I think it's a very strong possibility that the Cache owner did have permission and the guy that gave me trouble just wanted to pick an argument with me. I was VERY polite with him and he was a complete jerk to me....perhaps he's just someone who hates life.

 

This particular Cache owner has quite a few Caches in this area. I know I have found at least one other from the same person. No problem there.

 

Needs archived is a clumsy name for a log that is really meant to bring the cache to a reviewer's attention.

 

When there are disputes with non-cachers like this it's the best thing you can do to get it cleared up so nobody else runs into trouble.

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I love cemetery caches too, but if geocachers are being chased off the cemetery by angry staff, that's a pretty big problem. Cemeteries may be open to the public, but permission is still needed to place caches there. Needs archived and let the reviewer investigate the situation so nobody else is put into a dicey situation.

 

Sometimes, even when permission does exist, we have to concede that a geocache isn't feasible if it is putting our fellow geocachers at risk of these run-ins. Sometimes there just isn't much you can do about a staff member, a security guard, or a neighbour who is going to be unhinged.

 

Cemetery hides are already banned in Tennessee and South Carolina, or at least will no longer be published on this site, and I see where Cemetery hides are problematic.

 

I dislike and avoid cemetery hides.

 

Feels wrong to me to be playing games around and above people's final resting places.

There is no arguing with a person's feelings but I will point out that since the 1830's, the beginning of the "rural" cemetery movement in North America (rural as opposed the churchyard,) cemeteries have been regarded as a place for recreation for the living as well as final resting places for the dead. Laurel Hill cemetery in Philadelphia will be presenting performances of Hamlet next month along with many other events (even yoga)

This is from the Laurel Hill history page:

"Since the earliest days of Laurel Hill, the founders and managers of the Cemetery recognized the great potential for recreation that the rural, picturesque site held. Laurel Hill preceded New York’s Central Park by more than two decades, and was most certainly an inspiration for Philadelphia’s Fairmount Park. Picnics, strolls, carriage rides and sightseeing were popular pastimes in Laurel Hill’s early days, when “nearly 30,000 persons…entered the gates between April and December, 1848.” The site continues to remain a favored retreat for tourists, joggers, bicyclists, nature lovers, sketch artists and amateur photographers."

 

There are many other such cemeteries in North America.

 

Thanks for sharing that insight.

 

Without seeing the size or layout of the type of cemetery you describe I can't say if I'd feel differently about those compared to the ones I'm used to, which tend to be rather small and crowded and not the sort of places that lend themselves to recreational activities. Certainly not suitable for bike riding and not somewhere I'd expect to find tourists unless they were visiting a grave perhaps.

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I love cemetery caches too, but if geocachers are being chased off the cemetery by angry staff, that's a pretty big problem. Cemeteries may be open to the public, but permission is still needed to place caches there. Needs archived and let the reviewer investigate the situation so nobody else is put into a dicey situation.

 

Sometimes, even when permission does exist, we have to concede that a geocache isn't feasible if it is putting our fellow geocachers at risk of these run-ins. Sometimes there just isn't much you can do about a staff member, a security guard, or a neighbour who is going to be unhinged.

 

Cemetery hides are already banned in Tennessee and South Carolina, or at least will no longer be published on this site, and I see where Cemetery hides are problematic.

 

I dislike and avoid cemetery hides.

 

Feels wrong to me to be playing games around and above people's final resting places.

There is no arguing with a person's feelings but I will point out that since the 1830's, the beginning of the "rural" cemetery movement in North America (rural as opposed the churchyard,) cemeteries have been regarded as a place for recreation for the living as well as final resting places for the dead. Laurel Hill cemetery in Philadelphia will be presenting performances of Hamlet next month along with many other events (even yoga)

This is from the Laurel Hill history page:

"Since the earliest days of Laurel Hill, the founders and managers of the Cemetery recognized the great potential for recreation that the rural, picturesque site held. Laurel Hill preceded New Yorks Central Park by more than two decades, and was most certainly an inspiration for Philadelphias Fairmount Park. Picnics, strolls, carriage rides and sightseeing were popular pastimes in Laurel Hills early days, when nearly 30,000 persons…entered the gates between April and December, 1848. The site continues to remain a favored retreat for tourists, joggers, bicyclists, nature lovers, sketch artists and amateur photographers."

 

There are many other such cemeteries in North America.

 

Thanks for sharing that insight.

 

Without seeing the size or layout of the type of cemetery you describe I can't say if I'd feel differently about those compared to the ones I'm used to, which tend to be rather small and crowded and not the sort of places that lend themselves to recreational activities. Certainly not suitable for bike riding and not somewhere I'd expect to find tourists unless they were visiting a grave perhaps.

I just did a Wherigo cache in a cemetery in Spokane WA where you visited 8 or 9 historical markers (about various people in the regions history). I passed a couple that ween't part of the cache but were quite interesting (a tie to the Titanic, and a Medal of Honor recipient), one had a cache associated with it.

 

I understand in years past, families would have picnic/gatherings that weren't all solemn and quiet. Times and tastes change...

 

Edit to correct fat-fingers...

Edited by The Jester
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Appears the cache was placed without proper permission and was archived for that reason. :)

 

Do you have knowledge or is that your assumption? The reviewer didn't indicate the CO didn't have permission, just that they will reactivate the cache if the CO again indicates they (still) have permission.

Since the CO is no longer active we'll likely not get more info. The cache was around for many yearsb with 191 logged finds without any reported incident until very recently.

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Appears the cache was placed without proper permission and was archived for that reason. :)

 

Do you have knowledge or is that your assumption? The reviewer didn't indicate the CO didn't have permission, just that they will reactivate the cache if the CO again indicates they (still) have permission.

Since the CO is no longer active we'll likely not get more info. The cache was around for many yearsb with 191 logged finds without any reported incident until very recently.

 

Experience as a geocacher, but nothing is for sure in this game. I just used geosense, so don't hold me to it as fact, only what it appeared to me. :unsure:

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I think it's pretty clear that even a property like a cemetery can change ownership or management and it's definitely possible that permission was obtained at the time the cache was placed but nobody currently working there has any knowledge of it.

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I think it's pretty clear that even a property like a cemetery can change ownership or management and it's definitely possible that permission was obtained at the time the cache was placed but nobody currently working there has any knowledge of it.

 

And the cache owner is inactive and not taking care of it. :anibad:

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Lakeview Cemetary in Cleveland, Ohio encourages people to spend time there not just visiting those that are buried. They have different hikes and tours. President Garfield's tomb is open to the public daily from April to November. The Wade Chapel hosts weddings. It has an impressive Tiffany Glass wall.

Edited by mac367
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On 6/30/2017 at 8:29 AM, Manville Possum said:

 

Cemetery hides are already banned in Tennessee and South Carolina, or at least will no longer be published on this site, and I see where Cemetery hides are problematic.

The day they ban all cemetary caches is the day I stop caching.  Uptight people can get over it, and cachers can be more discrete if they see personnel around that have no real authority but might have reason to question their actions.  They should be taken on a case by case basis.  I guess I'm not moving to Greenville, SC.

Edited by sholomar
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9 hours ago, sholomar said:

The day they ban all cemetary caches is the day I stop caching.  Uptight people can get over it, and cachers can be more discrete if they see personnel around that have no real authority but might have reason to question their actions.  They should be taken on a case by case basis.  I guess I'm not moving to Greenville, SC.

Geocachers don't have the reputation for being discrete or respectful to private property, which your post points out.

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On 6/30/2017 at 9:29 AM, Manville Possum said:

 

Cemetery hides are already banned in Tennessee and South Carolina, or at least will no longer be published on this site, and I see where Cemetery hides are problematic.

FWIW, those states are both in the "Bible Belt". 

Honestly, if it were my grave, I'd be delighted if someone found a use for it (and the surrounding area) other than just a repository for my ultimate contribution to compost/recycling.  I also realize I'm likely in an outlying minority in this respect.  I can't help but think about the many cemeteries in this country that are historically relevant because of the grave sites they contain.  Some (I'm thinking celebrity sites) sell maps, offer tours...  Check out goggle for videos of all kinds of cemeteries.

As far as confrontations, it's been my experience that there is a subset of people in some menial jobs who get on power trips; they may have been given some duty/responsibility that in their own inflated self importance blossoms into something far above & beyond their actual job description,  Couple that with individuals of certain opinions/values, and you've got a recipe for confrontation--NO MATTER WHAT.  This can also include some individuals in the "nosy neighbor" category.

A skill that has helped me in dealing with such individuals is the ability to read people, and to think fast on my feet.  Short of that, I would try to come up with a plausible answer ahead of time.  (See potential trouble coming before it does.)  This doesn't necessarily mean a lie, either.  In a similar situation to the OP's (I wasn't there, so I can't really evaluate), I might have said I was doing research (well...:rolleyes:). Beyond that, it depends.  It helps some that I also have some training in dealing with irate neighbors and conflict resolution.  Again, I defer to goggle for elucidation/specifics.

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25 minutes ago, RufusClupea said:

FWIW, those states are both in the "Bible Belt". 

Honestly, if it were my grave, I'd be delighted if someone found a use for it (and the surrounding area) other than just a repository for my ultimate contribution to compost/recycling.  I also realize I'm likely in an outlying minority in this respect.  I can't help but think about the many cemeteries in this country that are historically relevant because of the grave sites they contain.  Some (I'm thinking celebrity sites) sell maps, offer tours...  Check out goggle for videos of all kinds of cemeteries.

As far as confrontations, it's been my experience that there is a subset of people in some menial jobs who get on power trips; they may have been given some duty/responsibility that in their own inflated self importance blossoms into something far above & beyond their actual job description,  Couple that with individuals of certain opinions/values, and you've got a recipe for confrontation--NO MATTER WHAT.  This can also include some individuals in the "nosy neighbor" category.

A skill that has helped me in dealing with such individuals is the ability to read people, and to think fast on my feet.  Short of that, I would try to come up with a plausible answer ahead of time.  (See potential trouble coming before it does.)  This doesn't necessarily mean a lie, either.  In a similar situation to the OP's (I wasn't there, so I can't really evaluate), I might have said I was doing research (well...:rolleyes:). Beyond that, it depends.  It helps some that I also have some training in dealing with irate neighbors and conflict resolution.  Again, I defer to goggle for elucidation/specifics.

 

 

Hey, I hear you. It's Groundspeak that no longer publishes geocaches in cemeteries in those two States for whatever reason. What you describe sounds like my last unpleasant run-in with a Church worker. I do Waymark in old historical cemeteries, but I'm only taking pictures and visiting if anyone asks. It's the geocachers hiding "stuff" and acting out of the normal. I'm sure night caching in cemeteries may be legal and popular in some places where others you would be shot or arrested. 

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There is a  mystery cache that requires you to tour  the graves of 25 famous people (for the area) in Forest Lawn Cemetery in Buffalo, NY to get the info for the final (located in the park next to and outside of the cemetery). You must visit the graves of President Millard Fillmore, Rick James, and Shirley Chisholm among others.

The cemetery today published an app that lets you take a self-guided tour of  many of these graves and others.

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4 minutes ago, NanCycle said:

Well, at the time I was just walking toward the cache location. I guess that excuse wouldn't have worked as well if I'd been caught with the cache in hand. 

 

I think sometimes it's our actions that give us away. I'm careful not to have to attempt explaining geocaching, so I always have my Find a Grave app just in case I'm questioned.

One of my nicer hides is in an old historic cemetery way back in the woods where there are no real trail leading to it, and beavers have really complicated reaching the site in recent years.

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20 hours ago, Manville Possum said:

Geocachers don't have the reputation for being discrete or respectful to private property, which your post points out.

Some cachers don't have a good reputation  and unfortunatly we're all judged by their actions.  

 

The manor in which we play the game influences how others see it.  

 

My first impression reading this was the cache owner did get premission when they hid the cache.    I'd say either the person who gave permission is no longer the athority or the maintanance person was not aware that the cache had permission.   

Personally I would contact the new land manager and ask that the cache be allowed to remain. 

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On 7/22/2017 at 7:27 AM, Manville Possum said:

Geocachers don't have the reputation for being discrete or respectful to private property, which your post points out.

And if there have been instances where cachers have disrupted ceremonies or solemn visits, then that would be an even worse reflection on the geocaching hobby. I once went for a cemetery cache while a group of people were visiting a gravesite. I didn't want to be a distraction to them, so decided to go for a couple other caches and come back later. They weren't there when I came back, so I was able to grab the cache.  If they were still there, or another group was there, then I would've just skipped it.

Of the couple dozen cemetery caches I've done, it was only that one time that someone else (besides another cacher) was anywhere in the cemetery.

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