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"Caches are meant to be found" - what does that mean to you?


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Just had a moment of wonderment, after once skimming a discussion and again reading someone quote the oft-repeated phrase:"...caches are meant to be found!"In pondering it, given the context, I realized that this could have varying degrees of application depending on who's saying it. What exactly does it mean?

 

Out of curiosity, what does this phrase mean to you?

 

(pre-emptive caution: given that this is a highly subjective topic about a phrase that makes an absolute statement, it's bound to have disagreements, so respect others' differing opinions and avoid personal comments! Treat it like a podcast discussion maybe? ;) thx!)

 

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I hear this used the most when you're talking about a difficult puzzle, where it may be used to describe a CO that will give hints if you're having trouble solving the puzzle because "caches are meant to be found". Like you said, though, the meaning can vary quite a bit depending on the context.

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A lot depends on context.

 

It could mean that signing the log and claiming the smiley is more important than the experience the CO has intended, and that it is better for those who are uninterested in the experience to sign the log and claim the smiley, than for them to simply ignore the cache.

 

It could also mean that the CO and possibly others are willing to help more people find challenging caches, including the experience the CO has intended.

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Perhaps the definition changes based on the reason one caches. We cache for the experience of being out in nature. Since we travel full time, caching in an area takes us to places we wouldn't otherwise find/see/experience.

So, in our case, difficult to find caches are no problem. If we find it, great. If not, no biggy as we got to experience what we came for, and the cache was just the excuse, not the holy grail to be obtained at all costs. We usually spend a bit of time searching and if we find it we stand back and enjoy the area. If we don't find it, we stand back and enjoy the area.

Probable not a great pure cacher attitude, but that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

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It means nothing. Caches are meant to be searched for. Some caches are extremely hard to find, verging on impossible, and that's okay.

I couldn't figure out how to word this,, that works. Thank you narcissa.

 

The first thing i think when i see the statement, is that the person posting it somehow thinks they're entitled to find every cache. This because the person posting is usually complaining in the same breath that they can't find/reach a cache, a puzzle is too difficult, or a CO won't help and/or let them log a find when they don't meet a particular challenge. I know this isn't the case all the time but it's still something that comes to my mind.

Edited by Mudfrog
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To me it means they who seeks them must be willing to put in the effort to find them - I'll meets 'em half way.

 

Sometimes mine go a-missing and I get out to look after them as quick as I am able. Nothing more bothersome than finding one just as it should be and in fine fettle and form when some potlicker has posted a DNF + (NM | NA)

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I see the phrase almost exclusively in relation to difficult challenges, or difficult puzzles. Like, if a puzzle is solved a couple of times a year by some genius, usually there's someone complaining because they feel that the CO "doesn't want" their cache to be found. And yeah, I see that sentiment tend to come from people who more exclusively value the physical finding of the container as the "geocaching experience", no necessarily the determination of coordinates from the cache listing before having actually done any, I dunno, gps-related work perhaps.

 

I can understand the sentiment leading to that situation, but really it's not impossible for someone to find a cache they can't solve. Just gotta hope that either someone will take you on a trip, someone can work on it with you to solve, or you can find a group that goes to find them. Or, you can just ignore it :)

 

(I don't personally have any caches on the ignore list - I feel like the list would just eat away at me, lol)

 

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I see the phrase almost exclusively in relation to difficult challenges, or difficult puzzles. Like, if a puzzle is solved a couple of times a year by some genius, usually there's someone complaining because they feel that the CO "doesn't want" their cache to be found.

 

This is the context I hear it used locally, vocally and often :rolleyes:

 

Although I did use it once when a local vocal cacher asked me to stop finding their caches because I like to post honest logs :laughing:

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I don't hear that often. When I have, it has been used in two different contexts.

 

Context one, it is said by the CO. This is usually indicating they are willing and able to help. E.g. "Don't be put off by my puzzle, if you need a hint please ask. My caches are meant to be found".

 

Context two, is the frustrated seeker. "What is it with Cacher-X and these impossible puzzles! Caches are meant to be found".

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I don't hear that often. When I have, it has been used in two different contexts.

 

Context one, it is said by the CO. This is usually indicating they are willing and able to help. E.g. "Don't be put off by my puzzle, if you need a hint please ask. My caches are meant to be found".

 

Context two, is the frustrated seeker. "What is it with Cacher-X and these impossible puzzles! Caches are meant to be found".

 

Agreed. I've known a couple COs of the former style and one was the first I heard express that philosophy. I could use it to describe my own hiding style.

 

The latter is usually an expression of frustration at COs who love difficult hides and take pleasure in frustrating seekers.

 

I would note there is a difference between "meant to be found" and "deserve to be found."

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The latter is usually an expression of frustration at COs who love difficult hides and take pleasure in frustrating seekers.

As long as it's understood that those are two very unrelated aspects, and the latter is much less conducive towards encouraging a happy community... tired.gif

 

I would note there is a difference between "meant to be found" and "deserve to be found."

 

Yep, the latter is quite subjective, and it's almost impossible to find one of the former (where the CO actually did not place the cache with the intent for it to be found; that makes not any sense)

Edited by thebruce0
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I have a number of mystery caches that are rarely found (one is still unfound). Way I've always looked it is that this is an outlet for me to present puzzles for people to solve and it's not as much about the cache itself (though there always is a cache and it's usually in a decent location and sometimes tricky to find). How many other places can one go to challenge others in this way on such a large platform? Yeah, I guess I want people to find my caches, but I don't want to insult their intelligence by making it too easy. It's why I've never once placed a skirt-lifter LPC cache.

 

How many people who have said "caches are meant to be found" have left throwdowns? How many have also said "puzzles are meant to be solved"? How many have also said "logs are meant to be signed"? It's just code for "I want a smiley".

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The latter is usually an expression of frustration at COs who love difficult hides and take pleasure in frustrating seekers.

As long as it's understood that those are two very unrelated aspects, and the latter is much less conducive towards encouraging a happy community... tired.gif

 

I would note there is a difference between "meant to be found" and "deserve to be found."

 

Yep, the latter is quite subjective, and it's almost impossible to find one of the former (where the CO actually did not place the cache with the intent for it to be found; that makes not any sense)

 

To quote a Narcissa'ism - Not all caches are for all people.

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Perhaps we should keep a list of common phrases often applying some legitimate personal discontent about a specific situation universally to the entire hobby and community?

"Caches are meant to be found""Everyone plays their own way"ph34r.gif

For what purpose?

Clearly to have happy fun time.Obviously I was not seriously advocating actively keeping a list. If it wasn't obvious, I was not seriously advocating keeping a list.

 

eta: Also, I really hate that line breaks are messing up in the forum right now... double lines sometimes become single and singles are sometimes lost. grr... (#doubleandtriplespacesallthelines)

 

"Caches are meant to be found" to me means no "Soft" coordinates.

I had to check with a CO on that recently because wording wasn't clear whether the coordinates were intetionally fuzzy or not. Thankfully not. It wasn't an attempt at a hint - but coordinates in the context of listing waypoints should never be intentionally inaccurate since the intent is to identify something at them. Also because reviewers need them for fundamental verification/review purposes. (that's no guarantee they are accurate, but the CO intent is the key)

 

But in devil-advocating here, I can see someone saying that soft coordinates doesn't mean they don't want their cache to be found, it's just another challenge in the puzzling to overcome. I think the problem isn't about the 'difficulty', but has to be locked to the point that waypoint listings need to be as accurate as the CO can provide, without intent to be inaccurate.

 

That does leave open dishonesty in that a CO can "pretend" they provided the best coordinates when they really wanted to give fuzzy coordinates for difficulty... but as with any CO deception, if they're found out, there'll be consequences.

Edited by thebruce0
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It means nothing. Caches are meant to be searched for. Some caches are extremely hard to find, verging on impossible, and that's okay.

I couldn't figure out how to word this,, that works. Thank you narcissa.

 

The first thing i think when i see the statement, is that the person posting it somehow thinks they're entitled to find every cache. This because the person posting is usually complaining in the same breath that they can't find/reach a cache, a puzzle is too difficult, or a CO won't help and/or let them log a find when they don't meet a particular challenge. I know this isn't the case all the time but it's still something that comes to my mind.

+1

We notice it more with the "everyone gets a trophy" group, who seem to think the hobby must adapt to them, instead of they simply don't qualify.

 

We also see this in throwdowners, whether for some odd reason think they're helping a CO, or (more likely...) just helping themselves.

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The latter is usually an expression of frustration at COs who love difficult hides and take pleasure in frustrating seekers.

As long as it's understood that those are two very unrelated aspects, and the latter is much less conducive towards encouraging a happy community

 

The latter is a subset of the former. In every game there are "griefers" - those who take pleasure in causing displeasure among others. Difficult hides can occur due to creativity and sometimes by necessity due to muggle levels, but in my experience difficult hides are usually difficult for the sake of being difficult. Needle in a haystack stuff. I'm speaking primarily of hides, not puzzles.

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Well there can be plenty of cachers who take pleasure in frustrating seekers who also don't enjoy difficult hides, so not just a subset of those that do. In a venn diagram, they'd overlap, and the griefers aren't in the 'COs that enjoy difficult hides' region that isn't overlapping. ;)

Edited by thebruce0
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The latter is usually an expression of frustration at COs who love difficult hides and take pleasure in frustrating seekers.

As long as it's understood that those are two very unrelated aspects, and the latter is much less conducive towards encouraging a happy community

 

The latter is a subset of the former. In every game there are "griefers" - those who take pleasure in causing displeasure among others. Difficult hides can occur due to creativity and sometimes by necessity due to muggle levels, but in my experience difficult hides are usually difficult for the sake of being difficult. Needle in a haystack stuff. I'm speaking primarily of hides, not puzzles.

 

Somewhere here there is a thread about "good evil" vs. "bad evil". Needle in a haystack hides are "bad evil". Cleverly hidden caches, created to provide a mental challenge for those that enjoy working their brain, are "good evil".

 

Even a "bad evil" cache might be found through pure luck. At some point, however, some of the high terrain caches become nothing more than a novelty such as the Rainbow Hydrothermal vents cache (over 2000' below the ocean surface) or the cache on the ISS.

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Even a "bad evil" cache might be found through pure luck. At some point, however, some of the high terrain caches become nothing more than a novelty such as the Rainbow Hydrothermal vents cache (over 2000' below the ocean surface) or the cache on the ISS.

And thankfully the novelty of those remain such, and they're not spread across the face of the earth to litter our maps will nigh impossible listings :) which raises a point - there is, at some point, a threshold somewhere between caches that are rarely found by very few which take up space for caches that are regularly found by very many. The ISS and Hydrothermal vents caches are nowhere near locations that other caches may use, so they won't directly affect people's desires to "find every cache [in my way]*"

 

* I think that's a big factor: Coming across a cache that is 'within reach', as it were. If someone actually felt the right to find "every cache", they'd be trying to find a way to rationalize logging the ISS and Vents. But, they've vastly out of reach, just like caches across the world. Really the sentiment more applies to the fact that "I've come across a listing that's right here, but there's some arbitrary 'task' that is hindering my ability to mark it as found and take it 'out my way'. (though obviously there may be a few who complain in principle about the existence of novelty listings like the ISS and Vents)

 

To wit: The ISS and Hydrothermal vents caches are meant to be found. Just not be everyone. And they can be found quite easily - for anyone with the proper skills, tools, and resources (just like an island cache, or a climbing gear cache, or a mountaintop cache, or a trades-knowledge cache, etc)

 

ETA: oh come on forum line spacing! what is wrong with you?

 

Edited by thebruce0
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I hear it sometimes from cachers as a justification for using online coordinate puzzle coordinate databases. "Caches are meant to be found, so if I can't solve this difficult puzzle myself, I'll bypass the puzzle and just look up the coordinates"

For me this practise is exactly the same as using bolt cutters to open a lock on a cache

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I hear it sometimes from cachers as a justification for using online coordinate puzzle coordinate databases. "Caches are meant to be found, so if I can't solve this difficult puzzle myself, I'll bypass the puzzle and just look up the coordinates"

For me this practise is exactly the same as using bolt cutters to open a lock on a cache

 

A friend of mine actually received that same threat for real from a frustrated local cacher.

 

Thankfully the threat never came to fruition but it was disturbing nonetheless that anyone would consider that a sane response to a physical challenge offered as part of a game.

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Some COs take pride in having caches that can only be found by their best mates. Local puzzle near me, unfound since the FTF in 2014 by the COs best mate and another puzzle unfound since last year placed and found by vice versa. No hints given unless you're a mate.

 

Some geocachers take pride in concocting malicious stories about other geocachers simply because their caches are difficult to solve or find.

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Some geocachers take pride in concocting malicious stories about other geocachers simply because their caches are difficult to solve or find.

 

Oh lordy...we have one or two of those. One guy even calls himself "The Curse of Atlanta" and tries to maintain a level of anonymity usually reserved for CIA.

 

Yeah...most folks just think he's a d-bag. <_<

Edited by J Grouchy
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Periodically there is a cache page is made, but there is no cache. The cache owner thinks they are being clever and funny making people hunt for nothing.

Personally as a reviewer a cache is meant to be found means that there should be one there, and the cache is findable. You can't just say something is there, but not have anything, or have a puzzle with no solution.

Edited by BlueRajah
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I agree with the premise of the OP that "Caches are meant to be found". If two people find your cache in several years, it is a pretty lonely cache. I would much rather have a cache that people find, enjoy and comment on. After some time, people put seldom found caches on the ignore list and move on. I guess we each play the game in our own way. Peoria Bill :>)

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I agree with the premise of the OP that "Caches are meant to be found". If two people find your cache in several years, it is a pretty lonely cache. I would much rather have a cache that people find, enjoy and comment on. After some time, people put seldom found caches on the ignore list and move on. I guess we each play the game in our own way. Peoria Bill :>)

I agree.

 

We know of a few people who spend much of their time heading out to "lonely" caches lately, as they seem to be the distance or terrain hides we don't see much of today. :)

Many of the "lonely" caches we've been to are simply with a terrain higher than 2...

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I agree with the premise of the OP that "Caches are meant to be found". If two people find your cache in several years, it is a pretty lonely cache. I would much rather have a cache that people find, enjoy and comment on. After some time, people put seldom found caches on the ignore list and move on. I guess we each play the game in our own way. Peoria Bill :>)

Agree, but setting up a cache that has all of these is kinda hard to do. You can make it easy where lots of people find it but then you won't get very many logs that are worth a hoot. You can make it more challenging and lose finders but more times than not, get better logs. As far as making it enjoyable, it all depends on what the finder is looking for. For many, it's a cache that's easy because numbers are more important to them. For others, a cache that is more difficult or challenging is more enjoyable.

 

There are caches out there that incorporate all of the traits but they are few and far between.

 

As far as being lonely, i don't think any of my more difficult caches have feelings so that's a non issue. :P

Edited by Mudfrog
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Agree, but setting up a cache that has all of these is kinda hard to do. You can make it easy where lots of people find it but then you won't get very many logs that are worth a hoot. You can make it more challenging and lose finders but more times than not, get better logs. As far as making it enjoyable, it all depends on what the finder is looking for. For many, it's a cache that's easy because numbers are more important to them. For others, a cache that is more difficult or challenging is more enjoyable.

I don't think those things are mutually exclusive. Quick and easy caches aren't always about numbers or unenjoyable. Sometimes you just want to go for a nice breath of fresh air, a quick walk, or a quick stop while you're heading out or home with friends, all sorts of reasons. There are good reasons to have quick and easy finds scattered all around, and good reasons to have hard, rare, difficult, task-oriented caches that barely anyone finds. "Enjoyable" is all over the board.

 

As far as being lonely, i don't think any of my more difficult caches have feelings so that's a non issue. :P

Poor little cache in the backcountry woods, no one find him at all... laugh.gif

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