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Cache Trash ---Why?


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I have been a member since 2003. I have placed 91 caches in SW Colorado. We have lots of cachers both domestic and foreign who visit Mesa Verde National Park. I like to place large caches where one can leave trackables as well exchange SWAG, especially for the kids. I have purchased about two dozen plastic "tool box" sized containers. I have placed lots of SWAG including strings of beads, marbles, small toys, dice, plastic animals or dinosaurs, foreign coins, polished rocks, fool's gold, etc.

 

But when I go back to replace a log or check on the condition of the cache I find gum wrappers, old business cards, scraps of fabric, rusty bolts, grungy paper, broken toys, used tickets, bottle caps, etc. Nothing of value or worth taking in trade. It seems to me the fun of geocaching for the kids is really being destroyed by inconsiderate slobs who call themselves geocachers. Has anyone else been experiencing this?

 

There seems to be an increase in the number of cachers who just want to boost the number of caches they find. They are respectful, report their findings, and send comments on how they liked the cache or the Cowboy stories I write for each cache. To those I salute you. To those who trash my caches, well I got another response inappropriate to describe here.

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The struggle is real. I know a few hiders who won't even put swag in their containers anymore just a logbook. The only "safe" place it seems is to put swag in premium only with a difficulty of 3 and above. I wish people were more considerate.

But I don't think those inconsiderates are going to be found on the forums either...

Edited by candlestick
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Swag turning to trash has been an issue since May 2000 ;-)

 

Smartphone caching allows a faster turnover of those who get in the game and get out too quickly to understand it. (It's not a game, it's not a community, it's an app).

 

I've made a couple of my caches in Florida state parks PMO, which has helped some with issues:


  •  
  • not being able to close an ammo can
  • not being able to put it back where it was found
  • and trashing the area. I'm not talking about trash IN the cache (though swag of any value will disappear to be replaced with pocket lint), I'm talking about stuff littered at the site: drink containers, food wrappers, TP, etc. Seekers step 30ft off trail, fool with cache, fiddle with food, pee, drop any trash in their hands, move on. This is new with the smartphone era; it used be that any geocacher trash was a small item, accidentally dropped (pen, battery).

Edited by Isonzo Karst
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You're my kind of CO! I love big containers with room for SWAG and trackables! But you're right, seems to happen a lot. Not many people follow the "trade even or up" rule of leaving something equally as nice (or better) than the SWAG item you take. Most people don't even carry SWAG with them, so they have nothing to leave; but they see something in a cache that they want, so they take it anyway and leave trash in it's place. I try to lead by example - I rarely take anything from a cache; but if I find one with a nice big container with plenty of room, I might leave four or five nice little SWAG toys for the next cachers. It's kinda fun to look at the cache logs again a few days/weeks after I have found it just to see what the folks after me say. Often it's logs like "Oh, wow! Nice SWAG! We really love the *whatever*" There are plenty of people who just take the stuff and say nothing; but at least if a few other cachers after me have been inspired to leave better SWAG, great. You can find inexpensive but still nice toys and trinkets just about anywhere. Or, as my name suggests, it's fun to make handmade SWAG so you can leave something really unique. I don't know why it's so hard for cachers to just always carry a few in their bag, along with their pen and other cache tools. If I ever get an opportunity to travel to your area and find your hides, you can bet I'll leave some of my best stuff in those big containers you mentioned!

Edited by CascadeHandmade
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Similar to Isonzo Karst, but we didn't really see swag degrade (if swapped for at all) until around '08.

Logs no longer mentioning anything but their status on some stat didn't help much to figure the issue...

 

So yeah, it's possible that phone use (app n go) may have contributed.

- A "prize" for their effort, the treasure in this high-tech treasure hunt.

I believe that's why so many trackables came up missing then too. A trophy...

 

Swag turning to trash was a lower priority than all the containers that came up missing (for us) at that time though.

 

Now that all but one of our lesser, low D/T hides are archived, we've hardly had any issues with caches missing.

 

But...

Higher D/T empty ammo cans still continue though, and (to me) sorta show it may not have been all newbies causing issues with empty containers afterall, but long-time premium members.

Scanning logs, it seems true...

Premium members taking and not trading. Sad.

Maintenance, we usually even have to replace the log's pencils and sharpeners.

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The struggle is real. I know a few hiders who won't even put swag in their containers anymore just a logbook. The only "safe" place it seems is to put swag in premium only with a difficulty of 3 and above. I wish people were more considerate.

But I don't think those inconsiderates are going to be found on the forums either...

 

I am inconsiderate. I have not added swag to my caches for years. I used to spend hundreds on swag only to see it deteriorate to nothing. I figured if no one else cares than I shouldn't care either. If you cache with kids and want to see swag, feel free to stock my caches with swag.

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I don't see swag as much of a problem. I always bring some along when I do a maintenance run but rarely do I have to add any. The cachers that visit my caches seem to get the concept of swag and do a good job trading.

 

Swag is one of the founding ideas of geocaching so to me it's important to keep that aspect alive.

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I don't think it's a smartphone thing

 

I don't ,"think it's a smartphone thing"; it's that smartphone geocaching apps mean many, many more people try geocaching than did back when you had to own a handheld gps to even try it.

 

This raises the numbers who will cache a few times, take stuff, unprepared to leave anything, and then abandon the game. Take without leave has always been part of the game.

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I am one of those that isn't into swag, but then my kids are grown now. I still try, but no matter what you do, you end up with gum wrappers, etc. I once had a cache that was called upper swag...an ammo box filled with items that were all $5 or more, I thought it might be a fun idea, more for adults. In the description I left a trade up note, but guess what I ended up with? Yup! Took a $10 dollar fishing lure and left a sea shell. Oh well, just one of my ideas that fell short.

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I generally don't put swag in my caches either because they're in places unsuitable for children (near cliffs or in rugged bushland, for example) or they're simply too small (my typical 380ml Sistema won't hold much more than the logbook and maybe a couple of trackables). I have noticed, though, that some of my larger ones do tend to acquire swag over time, and it's mostly decent stuff, not rubbish.

Edited by barefootjeff
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When I first started caching in 2005 or 2006, just wondering what kind of goodies I would find in the next cache kept me wanting more !! It used to be fairly nice then, I usually went for the plastic dinosaurs or forest animals and had quite a collection !! I would usually go to the dollar store and find miniature statuettes of gnomes or similar to drop off..... There were gnomes all over Lee and Collier county !! lol Now it seems you find a decent item 10% of the time most of the other times its worn out key rings, broken beads, and I have even seen a single use flossing tool UNWRAPPED just laying in dirt in the bottom of the can.

I surely miss the old days when folks took pride in what they left behind...... (rant off)

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I'm new to caching, just started a month or so ago, 35 finds...I have left really good items, two days ago I went back to caches I've already found JUST to leave good swag hoping to inspire the next person that comes along. I am however shocked at the stuff I've found in my short time doing this, used toothpicks, dog waste bags, used movies tickets, crumpled up tissues, old receipts, and I'm too afraid to even say on here what I found yesterday. It's astounding what people leave. I'm not sure if it's because I'm in the city or what but it's sad really. I don't know anyone who doesn't have a drawer with little trinkets, pencils, things OTHER than trash they can't give out. Dollartree has someone quality stuff too. I just don't get it.

 

I wish I geocached in the heyday when there was good swag... I guess I'll never know what that was like.

 

It just makes me sad when I see trash in a cache.

Edited by geostorm321
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On 7/2/2017 at 1:44 PM, geostorm321 said:

I'm new to caching, just started a month or so ago, 35 finds...I have left really good items, two days ago I went back to caches I've already found JUST to leave good swag hoping to inspire the next person that comes along. I am however shocked at the stuff I've found in my short time doing this, .... dog waste bags

I'm guessing you mean used/full(?)

My DW suggested leaving unused ones wrapped up with a surgical glove & twistie, for folks who GC with their furballs, but forgot/ran out.

On 7/2/2017 at 1:44 PM, geostorm321 said:

I wish I geocached in the heyday when there was good swag... I guess I'll never know what that was like.

It's been... disappointing, but I'm determined to keep a more positive attitude, and do what I can to be part of the solution.

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I had a couple of theme caches but, in what I believe is a rush to up their numbers, people disregarded the cache description and instructions.  One was a cooking themed cache which I had stocked with kitchen implements and recipes and asked people to trade the same.  One cacher left a paper airplane, and that was the BEST of the geotrash left in my cache. 

I know it's not feasible, but I wish that people would have to be mentored for their first five finds by a seasoned responsible geocacher.  Then maybe people would be taught to read cache descriptions, follow directions, CITO, write decent logs that aren't just "TFTC" and trade up or equally.  

Count me in with the above posters who think that smartphone caching may be part of the problem.  

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28 minutes ago, cowgirl68 said:

I had a couple of theme caches but, in what I believe is a rush to up their numbers, people disregarded the cache description and instructions.  One was a cooking themed cache which I had stocked with kitchen implements and recipes and asked people to trade the same.  One cacher left a paper airplane, and that was the BEST of the geotrash left in my cache. 

I know it's not feasible, but I wish that people would have to be mentored for their first five finds by a seasoned responsible geocacher.  Then maybe people would be taught to read cache descriptions, follow directions, CITO, write decent logs that aren't just "TFTC" and trade up or equally.  

Count me in with the above posters who think that smartphone caching may be part of the problem.  

A bit OT, but we've  seen more issues with those "seasoned" cachers than newbies lately, though none with the ones responsible. 

 - Someone leaving any swag at all would usually say a pm here a while to me.

As people in general, responsibility doesn't come with age, or a cash payment.   :)

Maybe different in your area, but here, unless the D/T's real high, few bother to read descriptions on traditionals anymore.

 - That numbers thing you know...

Edited by cerberus1
spllelling
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On 6/10/2017 at 7:53 AM, Isonzo Karst said:

I've made a couple of my caches in Florida state parks PMO, which has helped some with issues

Hi Meg!  I've found another method which seems to help:

Fairly early on in my caching career, I noticed an issue with swag degradation, and I tried to study cause and effect.  Why does Cache A get cleaned out in a week, whilst Cache B goes for years with no swag degradation? My observations are not perfect, and there are, of course, exceptions, but Riffster's Law of Swag Deterioration mostly holds true.

"There is a direct relationship betwixt how many meters your cache is from parking, and how many days your swag will last"

A cache 5' from a WallyWorld Parking lot will empty much faster than one which requires a half day hike to get to, number of finds being equal.  It seems that folks who go after the harder to acquire caches are more in tune with the notion of 'Trade Up, Trade Even or Don't Trade'.

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I agree Clan but that is even harder to understand.  I keep a caching bag in my car at all times.  It is filled with containers, logs and swagg.  I could maybe see the excuse you hiked up the mountain and forgot to bring something but found something you really wanted.  But if you are right by your car and don't have anything decent to trade!

I had fun with trading swagg for the first few months but after that I often don't even look past the log.  After starting I also started collecting good swagg.  My daughter was getting older so had tuns of toys she didn't care about any more.  People I know are always getting rid of stuff as am I.  Hard to believe once you start thinking OH that would be cool as swagg that cachers don't have a couple of boxes of swagg like I do.  Now if I take anything it might be a quarter and leave a few little toys.

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23 hours ago, cowgirl68 said:

 

I know it's not feasible, but I wish that people would have to be mentored for their first five finds by a seasoned responsible geocacher.  Then maybe people would be taught to read cache descriptions, follow directions, CITO, write decent logs that aren't just "TFTC" and trade up or equally.  

 

There are plenty of cachers who've been around for a long time that leave "TFTC" in their Found it! log. 

Edited by SeattleWayne
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On 8/2/2017 at 10:11 AM, cerberus1 said:

Maybe different in your area, but here, unless the D/T's real high, few bother to read descriptions on traditionals anymore.

Wow!  That really bums me out. I think you're right when you said it's a rush for numbers. 

1 hour ago, SeattleWayne said:

There are plenty of cachers who've been around for a long time that leave "TFTC" in their Found it! log. 

Agreed.  I still find it annoying. (Though I get it if it's in response to a ho-hum lampost cache or the like.) 

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Been caching for 5 months, with 124 finds to date.  Not one single item in any of them that I even considered tempting enough to take/swap.  Before searching for my very first cache I read up on what this pursuit was all about & bought a few little trinkets to take out into the field.  But beyond leaving some little ladybird buttons in caches in a particular location I was disinclined to leave any of the other bits & bobs for some thoughtless "grab it & go" individual to acquire.  I am happy enough just signing logs but I can imagine how much more fun it would be to find & leave "treasure".  Sadly we live in a greedy world.

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On 10/06/2017 at 6:51 AM, candlestick said:

The struggle is real. I know a few hiders who won't even put swag in their containers anymore just a logbook.

 

In my book, that's quite fine. If they place a quality dry container with room for at least a couple of small trackables and a logbook, that's all good. Those of us who like to leave signature items, swag and trackables can have a cache to trade stuff. 

 

The problem is people who hide 100ml capacity (or larger) containers immediately jump to the decision that they will no longer hide larger caches because their original stash depleted quickly. Their logic is, it's micros from now on because people like swag so much they take everything. 

 

Edited by L0ne.R
clarity
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When I started in 2002 the swag thing was much better and in a way I sort of miss it. I very rarely trade swag anymore, but once in a while I find something I like so I always have a few trade items with me.  

 

I mostly hide regular size caches and always equip them with swag and usually a TB when I hide them.  Anymore I don't replenish the swag in my existing caches for the many reason that have been stated.  The way I look at it is I enjoy hiding caches with swag, and really don't care what others do. 

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On 05/07/2018 at 9:48 PM, captnemo said:

When I started in 2002 the swag thing was much better and in a way I sort of miss it. I very rarely trade swag anymore, but once in a while I find something I like so I always have a few trade items with me.  

 

I mostly hide regular size caches and always equip them with swag and usually a TB when I hide them.  Anymore I don't replenish the swag in my existing caches for the many reason that have been stated.  The way I look at it is I enjoy hiding caches with swag, and really don't care what others do. 

 

I started back then too. I don’t think dollar stores were a thing back then which made for more interesting swag. Now most of the stuff is Dollar Store stuff. But occasionally there's a cool unique thing which adds to the fun. 

Edited by L0ne.R
clarity
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I think part of it is kids not understanding what is trash and what is treasure. I found a stick in a cache today which I tossed aside. It was inside of the logbook bag so it had to be on purpose.

 

I wish people would put nicer things in caches and seal the lid properly. I don't often trade for swag but I know that it is a draw for some people. I just enjoy the hunt. Swag is just a bonus.

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Personally I dislike swag for the main reason is I find 90% of it is junk. Back when my kids were excited about it we found so little to even allow the kids to touch them let alone keep them. 

 

The reward should be hanging out with the family. Learning something new or seeing something new. Using your mind and observation skills to make the find. Not the dollar store reject broken toys. 

 

Don't get me started about leaving candy.  No parent is going to allow their kids to eat anything left in a musty cache. Thows get thrown away.

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23 hours ago, DannyCaffeine said:

I think part of it is kids not understanding what is trash and what is treasure. I found a stick in a cache today which I tossed aside. It was inside of the logbook bag so it had to be on purpose.

 

Or it could be the kid likes playing with sticks. Throw them into streams watch them float. Poke at things

 

But I agree toss it. lol

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We rarely leave swag,  coins if we do. However when we encounter a cache that is filled with moldy, torn, disgusting, filthy swag we removed it. We even carry baby wipes to clean the inside. We also replace wet and soggy logs. We have even replaced broken caches with  a new one.

 

Though we are not avid geocachers, we generally only look for caches during promotions or we are Waymarking in a new state or province we will look for a few caches. 

 

Some may disagree with this philosophy, however we think we are improving the experience for the next geocacher, though unbeknownst . There maybe limited swag left in the cache, however at least they may not be disappointed to only find unwelcome swag. 

Edited by BK-Hunters
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8 hours ago, BK-Hunters said:

when we encounter a cache that is filled with moldy, torn, disgusting, filthy swag we removed it. We even carry baby wipes to clean the inside. We also replace wet and soggy logs. We have even replaced broken caches with  a new one

 

Here's why I don't think it's good for the game. Because it perpetuates a game of geolitter.

 

The cache is litter. If it's filthy it likely didn't get that way overnight. It means the owner never came back to check the cache. If you don't go back to maintain what you've left behind, your contribution will eventually become litter too.

Edited by L0ne.R
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17 hours ago, MNTA said:

 

Don't get me started about leaving candy.  No parent is going to allow their kids to eat anything left in a musty cache. Thows get thrown away.

Yeah someone put jolly ranchers in a cache and they melted. I got to them in time to throw them out but it could have ruined the cache!

ants.JPG

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We were caching right around the boarder in Southern AZ. We were trying to hit areas so far outlying we may never be back. Great hides but the caches were full of junk. My favorite so far were the hair ties that had hair stuck on them. I remove the gross junk and replace it will as much swag as I can when I'm out. I carry new swag of all types, plastic bags in case a bag is just torn up, cleaning wipes, new pencils, ect. IDK, it just seems like the right thing to do. GC is so relaxing to me its just my way of giving back. I want to see the sport thrive. I think its just rude to place trash in them. If you don't have anything don't take anything. You'd think that would be a simple rule of thumb. :antenna:

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8 hours ago, BigBlueDot said:

it just seems like the right thing to do. GC is so relaxing to me its just my way of giving back.

 

It is the right thing to do, and we also think it is our way of giving back. We were out today finishing  the "Hidden Creatures" promotion and found 20 caches all were about the size of a film canister. We replaced about 5 or 6 logs and one cache that was broken. It felt good, as it is a power trail high in the mountains with over 200 caches. 

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11 hours ago, BK-Hunters said:

 

It is the right thing to do, and we also think it is our way of giving back. We were out today finishing  the "Hidden Creatures" promotion and found 20 caches all were about the size of a film canister. We replaced about 5 or 6 logs and one cache that was broken. It felt good, as it is a power trail high in the mountains with over 200 caches. 

 

Why do miles and miles of trails have to be completely saturated with junk that appeal to the numbers players? Film canister after film canister. Left by COs who never go back, and finders who carry more cheap leaky micro containers and claim to "find" the litter they leave behind.  The cache owner of the 200+ groovy film canisters hasn't logged into the site since 2016. That power trail is a trail of propped up litter--no one is responsible for those containers.  The geolitterers shirking responsibility to the long gone cache owner.

 

And once that trail is filled with PTs, it will forever be filled with PTs. They never go away. There is no variety or sharing of the space. 

 

Why can't we have a trail with more variety,  where at least a few caches appeal to a wider audience of geocachers (including families), and where at least a few owners take their responsibility seriously? 

 

 

2018-07-09 11_54_51-Geocaching _ Geocaching Maps.png

Edited by L0ne.R
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LOneR, interesting that you found the trail in British Columbia, must have looked at our profile. If you noticed on 09/Jun/2018 this log states in part: "We replaced logsheets whenever needed, and with the CO's prior blessing, missing caches as well." We know several COs that have 100s of placements that with the help of willing volunteers they are maintained as well as the Grooving the Cascade.

 

I am under the impression that Geocaching is unique to each individual who participates. The Cascade offers more than small and larger caches, it is a beautiful area that overlooks mountain vistas, beautiful forests and interesting rock formations, plus benchmarks along the Cascade.  It is abundant with wildlife and natural beauty. As far as variety, it has it all.  

If you have no interest in "power trails, do not do them. 

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39 minutes ago, L0ne.R said:

 

Why do miles and miles of trails have to be completely saturated with junk that appeal to the numbers players? Film canister after film canister. Left by COs who never go back, and finders who carry more cheap leaky micro containers and claim to "find" the litter they leave behind.  The cache owner of the 200+ groovy film canisters hasn't logged into the site since 2016. That power trail is a trail of propped up litter--no one is responsible for those containers.  The geolitterers shirking responsibility to the long gone cache owner.

 

 

Because some people like them and do care about numbers.

 

The beauty of this game is you can play it any way you want. It is physically impossible to find them all. Though I am trying in my small corner of the world. Cleared out traditionals to 5 mile, my next goal is 6.

 

I can't say I've done a power trail not my thing, yet. But that does not mean others should not be allowed to do them. Everyone has their own motivations. Mine is to get out and see new places. Others may be numbers. Some only do hikes in the mountains. People stuck in urban environments may enjoy nanos. Some days I want a PNG other not.

 

You have an option. Put them on your "ignore list" I have over 1000 caches mostly puzzle caches that in my opinion I will never work on. When they are published I look if I don't think I will ever solve them away they go. No big deal.  If GS would improve the ability to turn off & on the ignore list, search features, and maybe write some articles about how this tool could be used to improve peoples enjoyment.

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1 hour ago, MNTA said:

 

Because some people like them and do care about numbers.

 

And those people haven't left room for the people who enjoy the game as a more leisurely family pastime. Cache owners who weren't about the numbers and took care to provide a continuous good experience for a wide audience are disappearing. We are left with trails and trails of trash caches, for the numbers-style players who are left. We could have a more inclusive activity, but without GC HQ steering the ship it will never happen. 

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8 minutes ago, L0ne.R said:

And those people haven't left room for the people who enjoy the game as a more leisurely family pastime. Cache owners who weren't about the numbers and took care to provide a continuous good experience for a wide audience are disappearing. We are left with trails and trails of trash caches, for the numbers-style players who are left. We could have a more inclusive activity, but without GC HQ steering the ship it will never happen. 

 

Who's fault is that really?   Those who want to provide (in your opinion) a "good experience" could well do so.  No room left... 

 - If they're not, then it seems (to me) that they either joined in with the numbers-style players, or they just don't care anymore.

No offense, but some time or another you're gonna have to get over it.  Thinking someone else is going to "fix"  caches you simply don't like probably isn't happening anytime soon.

I just drive further...

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So here is the actions I am doing to try to improve things beyond just complaining.

 

1) Place good quality caches. Admittedly this is very difficult. I was frustrated enough to file a request for improvement on the website forum. Though I found in my opinion two great location. When a non-maintained missing cache gets archived I'll hide my ammo can at the entrance to one of our newest natural areas.

 

2) File NM/NA logs. For some reason some folks are afraid to do this. Eventually in most cases they either get maintenance or get archived. My area is fortunate to have a lot of little parks and up to the largest urban park in the country. So when a hole opens up take it if you want.

 

3) Ask the power trail owners to free up space if you have a place in mind that conflicts with a COs hide and as you said you have a quality hide in mind. Some folks will be happy to give up their spot. They only placed it because no one else had before them. Some just like placing them. Couple guys in my area own around 1000 so they are not tied to any one particular location usually. 

 

4) For low quality caches. I choose to find them sometimes and if there are problems file the appropriate log to get things fixed. Realize GRC, LPC, & PNG do and will exist. But that does not mean they have to be disgusting, poorly maintained, or missing. Help out the reviewers by constructively pointing out problem caches.

 

5) Put them on the ignore list. I finally broke down and placed my first traditional cache on my ignore list. It was in the middle of a poison oak grove/infestation. It was a challenging hide, I posted my DNF as I could not look for it while trying to avoid the noxious weed. In my log I politely complained, others have chosen ignore the warning and found it, but now I don't have to see it any more. 

 

6) Drive to the location, and decide nope going to skip this one.  Too much water/mud, vegetation growth, sometimes change is season matters.

 

Can I challenge everyone to try something constructive as well.

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Found some lovely swag this week!  NOT!  Seeking a series of caches on a very enjoyable walk I found several had obviously been interfered with (the CO had only recently been checking them, replacing logs etc).  Two containers were just thrown out in the open near to where they should be hidden.  One box was full of water & stones with a new, as yet pristine & unsigned, but very sodden log.  Going by it's hiding place which was well sheltered (& we had no rain since CO did maintenance) this must have been filled in the nearby stream & replaced in it's hidey hole as some perverted joke.  I would guess it was the same joker who had filled another of the series with a handful of wet smelly rotting vegetation & put it back near it's hiding place. Yuk!!  These were not PO caches.  Can only assume some ne'er do well was having a laugh with whatever they could find.  Maybe they had taken some worthwhile swag?  Who knows?  Certainly does not inspire leaving anything for these little tykes to get in exchange for their carp.

Edited by grimpil
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Hmm!  You got me thinking there.  I assumed it was water, but the stones & pebbles were various shades of brown so cannot be 100% sure the liquid was clear.  But it did not smell . . . . and the sodden log paper was nice & white . . . . Gee!  Don't give the imps ideas!

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