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Gadget cache ideas


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2 hours ago, Schirf said:

Because 4x4 posts require digging I've always informed the land owners that the post isn't part of the gadget, and will be left behind if the gadget is removed so that they can install a real birdhouse or sign on it, which I'm happy to do if they request it.

By that reasoning, there should be no problem with RoombaCats' sliding puzzle cache for the same reason--the container is isn't part of the gadget.

I'm a bit surprised no-one has quoted the exact rule (and if they have and I missed it, I apologize).

Geocaches are never buried, neither partially nor completely.
If one has to dig or create a hole in the ground when placing or finding a geocache, it is not allowed.

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46 minutes ago, RufusClupea said:

I'm a bit surprised no-one has quoted the exact rule (and if they have and I missed it, I apologize).

Geocaches are never buried, neither partially nor completely.
If one has to dig or create a hole in the ground when placing or finding a geocache, it is not allowed.

Still OT, but didn't simply because I (maybe  erroneously...)  believed that folks already knew the guideline, as "...and there are no finder complaints" kinda implies...

 

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This is difficult for me...

I don't really have a dog in this fight.  In fact, if I had my druthers, I'd prolly side with (some degree of) burying be allowed/optional.  But as a consummate lifelong gamer, I don't cheat (which is partly why I'm having some difficulty in the current TB thread); I play by the rules--even when I don't agree with them (but I may discuss/argue them).

In Schirf's case, if s/he switched to a metal post, it could be driven into the ground without any digging or violation of rules, ;) and removed later.

Edited by RufusClupea
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40 minutes ago, niraD said:

Are you sure about that? Even a metal post like that would "create a hole in the ground".

Then someone should go through the entire database, and archive every cache on the planet that's on a pole that's been approved since that rule went into effect.

I don't think that's reasonable, nor rejecting a cache because it's on a pole (Do you?).  But I don't make the rules, nor adjudicate them.

.... or are you yankin' my pole chain?  :P

If we're going to "rules lawyer", another solution is finding a previous depression, placing one's cache (or pole) on the ground, and filling in around it.  Digging is not necessary to fill.  :D  And filling in is not creating a hole unless/until the cache/pole is removed.  The rules only specify when the cache is placed--not when it is removed.

Any type of pole can also be cast into a mass of concrete on top of the ground without creating a hole.  Given the choice, which do you think a landowner/manager would least object to--a pole (of any kind) stuck in the ground (like a fence post) or a mass of concrete? :D

Edited by RufusClupea
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10 minutes ago, RufusClupea said:

Then someone should go through the entire database, and archive every cache on the planet that's on a pole that's been approved since that rule went into effect.

Some form of the "no digging" rule has been on the books since the first version of the guidelines that I could find. But that doesn't mean that it has always been enforced the same way, or that it has always been enforced by the Grade-A USDA rule-lawyers interpretation of the book. And it certainly doesn't mean that every cache that's on a pole was placed on a new placed-just-for-the-geocache pole.

I was responding only to your comment that such a metal post could be placed "without any digging or violation of rules". Even the "no digging" rule has exceptions, but the fact that they are allowed doesn't mean that they aren't exceptions. Or that similar exceptions can be taken for granted. As the guidelines state, "there is no precedent for placing geocaches".

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37 minutes ago, RufusClupea said:

Then someone should go through the entire database, and archive every cache on the planet that's on a pole that's been approved since that rule went into effect.

I don't think that's reasonable, nor rejecting a cache because it's on a pole (Do you?).  But I don't make the rules, nor adjudicate them.

.... or are you yankin' my pole chain?  :P

If we're going to "rules lawyer", another solution is finding a previous depression, placing one's cache (or pole) on the ground, and filling in around it.  Digging is not necessary to fill.  :D  And filling in is not creating a hole unless/until the cache/pole is removed.  The rules only specify when the cache is placed--not when it is removed.

Any type of pole can also be cast into a mass of concrete on top of the ground without creating a hole.  Given the choice, which do you think a landowner/manager would least object to--a pole (of any kind) stuck in the ground (like a fence post) or a mass of concrete? :D

I think those two examples you gave are acceptable. I am sure someone will point out the error of my ways.

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1 hour ago, niraD said:

Are you sure about that? Even a metal post like that would "create a hole in the ground".

Not until it's removed from the ground.

I think we're getting too far afield/OT here. A gadget cache I'd like to see is one that has a slightly different solution each time it's done/solved.

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By gifting land owners the 4x4 pole for other purposes as part of the permission gained, I feel I've legitimately separated the pole from the cache.  That is harder to say for other types of digging.   Until WVTim's 4x4 pole gadgets are declared in violation, it's hard to argue against them.  Why would we?   The rule itself should be more flexibly written and enforcement should be more uniform.   The fact that some get away with things others never could makes it harder to understand the rules.

Speaking of rule enforcement, which is a bigger problem; 4x4 poles placed with land owner permission or caches placed without permission at all?  If all caches on private property that didn't have permission were to disappear how many would exist?  

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19 hours ago, kunarion said:

 

The 5-gallon bucket I mentioned also had "no digging needed".  Yet the dirt that once surrounded it was removed over time, to reveal an open pit.  I understand the obsession about not burying caches.

 

One of the issues with playing fast and loose with the "no buried caches" requirement is that as a finder my assumption is that the CO has read and understands the guidelines.  There is an expectation that the cache is never buried, thus I'm not going to be digging in the ground (even with my hands) in order to try to find the cache.   I also look at this from a land managers perspective.  It doesn't matter if the finder doesn't have to dig to find the cache.  A land manager that encounters a hole in the ground with a geocache in it is going to associated geocaching with digging holes in the ground and may be unlikely to allow any geocaches in the property they manage.  They're not going to care that finders don't need to dig, nor that if someone comes up with some sort of interpretation of "digging" which allows a hole to be created without a shovel that it's "okay".  They're just going to see a hole in the ground that they now associate with the game of geocaching.

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I was just given permission by the local library to place a cache.   I'm thinking it'll work as follows:

Knowledge Is Key 

Hide the cache container in a hollowed out set of encyclopedias. Lock the container with a padlock that requires a key.  Put a note on the outside of the container hinting that a proper search doesn't have to be physical.

Enter a book into their search system calling it the same thing as the cache, with Geocaching as a subject, and "Schirf" as the author.

Put the "fake" book on the shelf in the appropriate location, meaning that the searcher will need to learn to find books using the library's filing system.   They liked this.

Inside the book is a key and a note that the container is larger than a single book.

What do you think?

Edited by Schirf
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2 hours ago, Schirf said:

I was just given permission by the local library to place a cache.   I'm thinking it'll work as follows:

Knowledge Is Key 

Hide the cache container in a hollowed out set of encyclopedias. Lock the container with a padlock that requires a key.  Put a note on the outside of the container hinting that a proper search doesn't have to be physical.

Enter a book into their search system calling it the same thing as the cache, with Geocaching as a subject, and "Schirf" as the author.

Put the "fake" book on the shelf in the appropriate location, meaning that the searcher will need to learn to find books using the library's filing system.   They liked this.

Inside the book is a key and a note that the container is larger than a single book.

What do you think?

You're going to have to work in that the use of a GPS will be required for some aspect of the cache.  It's not enough just to have published caches at the library it's at it's entrance.  

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2 hours ago, NYPaddleCacher said:

You're going to have to work in that the use of a GPS will be required for some aspect of the cache.  It's not enough just to have published caches at the library it's at it's entrance.  

I'm not sure what you mean.  The coords will be inside the building structure, which houses the municipal offices as well.   So the GPS will let people know that it's inside the Library portion of the building - the coords are not just to the front door.  Nowhere on the cache page do I intend to use the word "Library".

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2 hours ago, Schirf said:

I'm not sure what you mean.  The coords will be inside the building structure, which houses the municipal offices as well.   So the GPS will let people know that it's inside the Library portion of the building - the coords are not just to the front door.  Nowhere on the cache page do I intend to use the word "Library".

 

Coordinates have always been inaccurate for me inside a building. Have you tested your idea?

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9 minutes ago, Manville Possum said:

 

Coordinates have always been inaccurate for me inside a building. Have you tested your idea?

I never use Coordinates from my device if I can see where the cache is on satellite imagery.  In this case, I know the location of the cache inside the building, so I should be able to drop the coordinates right on the hidden cache.   And then I'll test them with a friend who physically checks the numbers before I (or in most cases, she) lists the site, so they'll be as good as can be expected.

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6 minutes ago, Schirf said:

I never use Coordinates from my device if I can see where the cache is on satellite imagery.  In this case, I know the location of the cache inside the building, so I should be able to drop the coordinates right on the hidden cache.   And then I'll test them with a friend who physically checks the numbers before I (or in most cases, she) lists the site, so they'll be as good as can be expected.

Good luck getting that design past your reviewer.  If it helps, think of the finders -- meaningful use of a GPS must be an option for them.  The common solution is to place a clue outside the library that tells the finder where to go in order to find the book indoors (like a Dewey Decimal number, a shelf number, a book title, etc.)  -- OR -- for the book inside the library to provide the coordinates for a final container and logbook, hidden outdoors.

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5 minutes ago, Keystone said:
11 minutes ago, Schirf said:

I never use Coordinates from my device if I can see where the cache is on satellite imagery.  In this case, I know the location of the cache inside the building, so I should be able to drop the coordinates right on the hidden cache.   And then I'll test them with a friend who physically checks the numbers before I (or in most cases, she) lists the site, so they'll be as good as can be expected.

Good luck getting that design past your reviewer.  If it helps, think of the finders -- meaningful use of a GPS must be an option for them.  The common solution is to place a clue outside the library that tells the finder where to go in order to find the book indoors (like a Dewey Decimal number, a shelf number, a book title, etc.)  -- OR -- for the book inside the library to provide the coordinates for a final container and logbook, hidden outdoors.

Here's what the guidelines says:

Listings must contain accurate GPS coordinates.

You must visit the cache location and obtain the coordinates with a GPS device. GPS usage is an integral and essential element of both hiding and seeking caches and must be demonstrated for all cache submissions. 

Using satellite imagery may be a way to obtain a set of coordinates but it's not using a (at least not the hiders) GPS device.  Once inside the building, a potential finder would only be able to guess the location within the building based on the satellite view unless their GPS worked inside the building.   As the cache is designed,  GPS usage would not be an integral or essential element for either the hider or the finder.  As Keystone (a reviewer) said, good luck getting it past the reviewer.

If it were me, I'd hide a container somewhere outside (and close to) the building which had a card in it which read:  Subject: Geocaching, Author: Schirf

It might also contain an offset (direction, distance) from where to go from the container at the published coordinates which would lead them into the library.  Then the finder would have to figure out that they need to use the online catalog to find the book with the key and final container.  

I've worked in a library for the past 20 years so have considered a library related cache.  I'd probably hide the final container outside the library but have several locations within the library one would have to visit to derive the coordinates.  

 

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22 minutes ago, Schirf said:

I never use Coordinates from my device if I can see where the cache is on satellite imagery.  In this case, I know the location of the cache inside the building, so I should be able to drop the coordinates right on the hidden cache.   And then I'll test them with a friend who physically checks the numbers before I (or in most cases, she) lists the site, so they'll be as good as can be expected.

 

So you are using Google Earth or another program to get your coordinates, but what I'm getting at is will a GPS unit be accurate enough inside the building? Walls and buildings have an effect on GPS.

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I've done one where the GPS was not needed. Go to the library, get clues.. Use clues to continue inside (different floors/color coded sections...), find books, get numbers/titels/authors ... after about 6-7 "WPs" enough info is gathered to go to yet another floor and try to find the correct (log)book. Then it's time to get the GPS out again to go to the next cache :ph34r:

Big fun, great cache and since we knew it would keep us busy for a few hours and there were showers predicted we stayed dry until the rain passed.

 

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1 hour ago, Keystone said:

Good luck getting that design past your reviewer.  If it helps, think of the finders -- meaningful use of a GPS must be an option for them.  The common solution is to place a clue outside the library that tells the finder where to go in order to find the book indoors (like a Dewey Decimal number, a shelf number, a book title, etc.)  -- OR -- for the book inside the library to provide the coordinates for a final container and logbook, hidden outdoors.

Thanks.  I understand, which is why I will have my friend physically checks the coordinates to see if she can locate the cache inside the building using the GPS.  That said, I like the idea of having an offset from the Entrance...  Ten steps West, Five North, Fifteen West would do it in this case.  I will also provide a clue, as you suggested.  Since you're my reviewer, is that enough?

 

Edited by Schirf
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1 hour ago, NYPaddleCacher said:

I've worked in a library for the past 20 years so have considered a library related cache.  I'd probably hide the final container outside the library but have several locations within the library one would have to visit to derive the coordinates.

I've seen library caches go both ways: Some use library resources to determine GPS coordinates for the final container outside the library, and others use GPS coordinates for clues outside the library to tell seekers where to look for the final container inside the library.

And some older ones basically provide the GPS coordinates of the library parking lot or the library entrance and tell you to go inside, with no real GPS use. But new caches like that won't be published today.

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2 minutes ago, niraD said:

And some older ones basically provide the GPS coordinates of the library parking lot or the library entrance and tell you to go inside, with no real GPS use. But new caches like that won't be published today.

I think I get this, but what about if the coordinates are to a hidden container that then explains that the final step is in the library, and gives directions to find it?   That way the GPS is meaningful, right?

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8 minutes ago, Schirf said:

I think I get this, but what about if the coordinates are to a hidden container that then explains that the final step is in the library, and gives directions to find it?   That way the GPS is meaningful, right?

Yep. I've found multi-stage caches like that. I've also found multi-stage caches like that, where the final wasn't in a library but was in some other public building (e.g., a museum or visitor center).

You don't need to use accurate GPS coordinates to find the final container. You just need to use accurate GPS coordinates at some point during the search.

And I know you can get/use accurate GPS coordinates with a GPS device, even if there is no GPS reception at the cache location. But the assumption seems to be that you can't get/use accurate GPS coordinates inside a building.

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1 hour ago, Keystone said:

If it helps, think of the finders -- meaningful use of a GPS must be an option for them.  The common solution is to place a clue outside the library that tells the finder where to go in order to find the book indoors (like a Dewey Decimal number, a shelf number, a book title, etc.)  -- OR -- for the book inside the library to provide the coordinates for a final container and logbook, hidden outdoors.

I am repeating a portion of a prior post for those who may not have seen it.  Also, the Help Center article on Indoor Geocaches makes for good reading.  My prior post was an attempt to summarize the Help Center article.

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Schirf, I'm sensing a logistics problem from visualizing pursuit of this cache.  S'poze GPS coords. do get a seeker within say... 10 to 20 ft. of the encyclopedia (about how accurate mine's been anywhere)--or of the book, what are seekers supposed to do--search every book within that range until they happen upon the hollowed-out encyclopedia?  Did the library PTB think that through? (Rhetorical)

...And just curious ('cuz I gotta know... :P), where are you getting/who's supplying a set of encyclopedias for hollowing out (and how're you going to do it--chainsaw) :blink:

I kinda like the general idea; it's insidious, but I think it's got a few wrinkles bumps to be worked out.

FWIW, if you haven't already, goggle: geocaching library.  There's a plethora of caches, discussions, articles, ideas, and more to peruse...

Edited by RufusClupea
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6 minutes ago, Manville Possum said:

Have you ever tried way pointing you vehicle in a parking garage?

No. But if I wanted to, I could produce accurate coordinates for a vehicle in a parking garage. And I've found caches in parking garages using accurate GPS coordinates provided by the CO.

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4 minutes ago, Keystone said:

I am repeating a portion of a prior post for those who may not have seen it.  Also, the Help Center article on Indoor Geocaches makes for good reading.  My prior post was an attempt to summarize the Help Center article.

Yes, I believe what I'm now proposing follows that article.  Coordinates to outdoor information which contains instructions on how to locate the container inside, and how to start working the puzzle for opening the container.   No staff involvement will be required, other than approval, which I have gotten.  Thank you Keystone, I will start constructing the container unless you still see a problem with this idea.

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10 minutes ago, niraD said:

No. But if I wanted to, I could produce accurate coordinates for a vehicle in a parking garage. And I've found caches in parking garages using accurate GPS coordinates provided by the CO.

 

In most cases I can too, but I have encountered places that I can't get any GPS signals or they bounce from tall buildings. The few caches in parking garages that I have found included the elevation at the posted coordinates.

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18 hours ago, niraD said:
18 hours ago, Manville Possum said:

Have you ever tried way pointing you vehicle in a parking garage?

No. But if I wanted to, I could produce accurate coordinates for a vehicle in a parking garage. And I've found caches in parking garages using accurate GPS coordinates provided by the CO.

 I did one several years ago at a 5 story parking garage where the CO mentioned in the listing that they were able to get good, accurate coordinates.  The hint said, "think laterally".  Guess where the cache was hidden?

 

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Ok this I started this thread so I am going to share a few ideas I have made. This one is a really easy one to make. It is a pic pipe with a bison tube in it. The cap on top comes off with some nails attached to it. There are holes on the side of the pic pipe you use the nails to get the cache out. I also have made a electric one which requires the cacher to use a 9v battery to find the combo. If anyone is interested and is in colorado I have a trail that at the moment has 5 caches but I am about to make it 8. https://www.geocaching.com/bookmarks/view.aspx?guid=6c0e2b03-b173-4640-ac0f-5537e504e2bb

 

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On 8/14/2017 at 2:20 PM, thelownlycheese said:

Ok this I started this thread so I am going to share a few ideas I have made. This one is a really easy one to make. It is a pic pipe with a bison tube in it. The cap on top comes off with some nails attached to it. There are holes on the side of the pic pipe you use the nails to get the cache out. I also have made a electric one which requires the cacher to use a 9v battery to find the combo. If anyone is interested and is in colorado I have a trail that at the moment has 5 caches but I am about to make it 8. https://www.geocaching.com/bookmarks/view.aspx?guid=6c0e2b03-b173-4640-ac0f-5537e504e2bb

 

LOL! same exact idea before I even visited this thread. I guess most cachers think alike!

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52 minutes ago, TwistedCube said:

I built a gadget cache where you have to bring a credit card. The finder pushes the card thru a slit to unlock a little door on the side, then, pull the door and there is the cache! I will post pics if anyone would like to see them.

Found one like that too. There was a series of keys to enter the amount of money you wanted to send to the CO. :lol:

 

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7 hours ago, TwistedCube said:

I built a gadget cache where you have to bring a credit card. The finder pushes the card thru a slit to unlock a little door on the side, then, pull the door and there is the cache! I will post pics if anyone would like to see them.

That sounds a little shady in this day and age.

I might use a plastic card of similar properties to a credit card, but I'd be pretty hesitant to use a credit card.  What's next, a catfish-themed puzzle cache that asks for my mother's maiden name and my previous two addresses for the geochecker?  :laughing:

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15 minutes ago, hzoi said:

That sounds a little shady in this day and age.

I might use a plastic card of similar properties to a credit card, but I'd be pretty hesitant to use a credit card.  What's next, a catfish-themed puzzle cache that asks for my mother's maiden name and my previous two addresses for the geochecker?  :laughing:

Of course it's not a cardreader, any thin stiff material would do. You just need to push the locking mechanism away ;)

 

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22 hours ago, on4bam said:

Of course it's not a cardreader, any thin stiff material would do. You just need to push the locking mechanism away ;)

 

They would bring their own of course. When I found one like that, I used a library card. I would also add a geocaching sticker on the bottom or side of it. 

Edited by TwistedCube
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We released Agent 009 Gadget trail and based on percentage of favorites, it seems to be well liked. 
We did videos on each one.

 

 

 

 

We also created a "find sheet".

 

We started working on a smart cache series. Up to six thousand lines of code and a lot of fun fabricating. Just finished up the comic strip that will be on the inside of the door.

3378ee1c-f312-48d5-9cdc-ed90d42bf1da.jpg

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6 hours ago, pokeycat9 said:

Here is one panel of the smart cache series in progress. It uses the new esp32 chip. I also attached some wiring documentation.

 

Those are amazing designs! That looks very polished and professional! How to you make the plastic pieces and engrave or paint the panels?  I've never seen anything like that before, although I have found some caches at Mega events that have elaborate rooms built as cache puzzles, and some well-crafted wooden puzzle box caches in a cache series. I'd go check yours out if I could.

But I can make absolutely no sense out of the designs in the previous two posts, including the video. I'm completely lost. I'm guessing that the cache page explains what the object of the puzzle is. I'm sure there must be some kind of guidance provided on how to start, that the pictures are just a taste of the presentation. Just looking at it, I would not understand it in a million years. :anicute:

 

Edited by kunarion
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8 minutes ago, kunarion said:

 

Those are amazing designs! That looks very polished and professional! How to you make the plastic pieces and engrave or paint the panels?  I've never seen anything like that before, although I have found some caches at Mega events that have elaborate rooms built as cache puzzles. I'd go check them out if I could.

But I can make absolutely no sense out of the designs in the previous two posts, including the video. I'm completely lost. I'm guessing that the cache page guides the player to what the object of the puzzle is. I'm sure there must be some kind of guidance provided on how to start, that the pictures are just a taste of the presentation. Just looking at it, I would not understand it in a million years. :anicute:

 

All the fancy cutouts are from a laser. The photos are work in progress not showing things like large lcd screens, etc. 

The smart cache has audio, individual pixel leds (60 leds), rfid, touch capacitance, and some unique ways of skinning an old cat.

For example, we put a new spin on the classic game Simon Says. 

You battle the Drone in hand to hand combat. We tell you what kind of attack the drone is doing and you have to push a touch sensitive pad complete with sound effects. Then we added a ultrasonic distance sensor for blocking the attacks where you have to position your hand either 6 inches, 12 inches or 20 inches away from the sensor. 

Smart caches really come down to a few types of input sensors and an even few type of output devices (lcd, audio, vibration, servos, lights). 

This picture shows some of the components in the command module. SD card read, amplifier, esp32 processor, power distribution. 

 

The first smart cache has 150 audio files in it. It has 6 levels of play and is designed to take 45 minutes. I create my own collectibles as a souvenir for solving our series. The first nine are numbered and get posted on the description. 

The gadget cache series has the instructions / hints posted on the outside of each cache. I learned that people don't read the on-line instructions, so I posted them on the cache. If users get frustrated, they start hacking at the gadget and cause maintenance issues. 

Check out the other videos on the channel. They don't have any lead in stories. When researching ideas, google "escape rooms". You can find many good ideas, especially with microprocessors. 

23435253_1675587649138901_4431794533928805839_n.jpg

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26 minutes ago, pokeycat9 said:

All the fancy cutouts are from a laser. The photos are work in progress not showing things like large lcd screens, etc.

 

Looks great!  I made a gadget cache about five years ago, and only recently placed it.  It doesn't have computerized or moving parts (except for a combination lock), and never actually worked the way I intended.  Recently I decided to go place it anyway in its simpler form, along with a couple of other ideas I'd been kicking around, unsure how they could ever work in the elements as cache stages.  And once I set it all up, yeah, it's not quite what I'd like.  But it works OK.  One thing I found out is, a remote doorbell's sound is deadened outdoors, its effective range (the distance that cachers may hear it) is about 25 feet.  And that's when the place is super quiet.  The doorbell's range was over 100 feet, in many tests at home.  The whole thing is about as fancy as I plan to get. :anicute:

Edited by kunarion
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14 minutes ago, hzoi said:

Well, I have your word for it, person on the internet I've never met.  What more do I need?  :anibad:

Being there and seeing it for yourself makes it pretty clear, unless you don't believe your own eyes. :blink: I could post a picture but I don't believe in spoilers.

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9 minutes ago, on4bam said:
21 minutes ago, hzoi said:

Well, I have your word for it, person on the internet I've never met.  What more do I need?  :anibad:

Being there and seeing it for yourself makes it pretty clear, unless you don't believe your own eyes. :blink: I could post a picture but I don't believe in spoilers.

Relax, I'm kidding.  But I'd still hesitate to use a credit card to open a geocache.  Not because I have any basis to suspect there is a card reader, but for more practical reasons: I use my credit card for more important things, like paying for goods and services, and would rather risk loss or damage to a library card instead.

(When I was in college, I tried using my credit card to open a door when I lost my key, and ended up splitting the card in half.  I then had to write checks for a while until the replacement was sent.)

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