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cerberus1

Please Don't Remove My Email

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By the Update to Profile and Dashboard Announcement, you're referred to "the blog" for additional info.

 

One of the sections reads, "Why are we removing the Send Email functionality?".

 

I don't care too much about you guys nixing our profile pages, claiming it a "dashboard", as I see it as just another "going to phone use" thing against old-time users of the site to me, but I use my email.

 

We had one person on our "friends" section, until he even realized that was silly.

This is not facebook, twitter, or any of the other social sites I won't log into the blog from...

 

That messaging system doesn't do it for me, so hopefully we can keep track (as always) for issues on cache pages, and real friends have our number.

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Most active members we know have "stuff" on their profiles, and couldn't find one that didn't.

Trying to figure where that 2.4% of folks having anything entered in their profile page are today, with stats being all the rage......

 

Edited...corrected error...

Edited by cerberus1

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Agreed.

 

I'm wondering what will happen to the reviewers? We were told they prefer to use email (like many of us do) and were opted out of the Message Center en masse. Will they now be forced to use the MC? I'm sure they won't be happy if they are. Or will the email function be kept around for communicating with the reviewers? If so, then why can't we keep using it too?

 

I avoid using the MC because it doesn't fit my needs, but I understand there are a number of lingering problems that are still preventing a number of users from using the MC even if they want to. Why not get a working communication method in place before getting rid of the old one that worked fine? Don't make this another scenario like the retiring of the old paid app before the new one was fit for use.

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Most active members we know have "stuff" on their profiles, and couldn't find one that didn't.

It all depends on how you define "active". I suspect the quoted stat is including a lot of casual cachers with few finds, many of which logically wouldn't bother to put anything on their public profile. I'd be interested in seeing the percentage based on an "active" cacher being defined as one who found more than 100 caches in the last year. Of the local cachers that would fit that definition, I'd venture to say that the percentage would be more like 50-75%.

 

It's another case of a feature maybe not being used by everyone, but for those who do use it, it's important to them.

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From the blog post:

For those that like to communicate via email – you can set your preferences to receive a notification to the email listed on your geocaching account. From there you can respond to the message via email and take the conversation out of Message Center, if that is your desire. For those folks, the only reason to use Message Center is to begin a conversation – after that the rest of the communication can take place via email.

 

Will we still be able to include email links on our public profile pages and in our cache description pages, so we can communicate with other geocachers without using the MC at all?

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Most active members we know have "stuff" on their profiles, and couldn't find one that didn't.

It all depends on how you define "active". I suspect the quoted stat is including a lot of casual cachers with few finds, many of which logically wouldn't bother to put anything on their public profile. I'd be interested in seeing the percentage based on an "active" cacher being defined as one who found more than 100 caches in the last year. Of the local cachers that would fit that definition, I'd venture to say that the percentage would be more like 50-75%.

 

It's another case of a feature maybe not being used by everyone, but for those who do use it, it's important to them.

Dating myself probably, but I figured it was simply due to the many phone folks today, who sometimes never have/feel a "need" to enter the site.

- But most of the phone-only people we know also live for their stats (on their profile...), so that doesn't fit either.

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From the blog post:

For those that like to communicate via email – you can set your preferences to receive a notification to the email listed on your geocaching account. From there you can respond to the message via email and take the conversation out of Message Center, if that is your desire. For those folks, the only reason to use Message Center is to begin a conversation – after that the rest of the communication can take place via email.

 

Will we still be able to include email links on our public profile pages and in our cache description pages, so we can communicate with other geocachers without using the MC at all?

I could do large print, similar to the "Please note: I use email only. Thanks." currently on my profile, if that's an option. :)

It's just an account for this site anyway.

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I have used the MC a few times, especially when I wanted to send the other cacher a photo - of their busted cache or where I searched to see if I was in the correct spot. But when I send EC or VC answers, then I used email. I want to have my sent message in my email, so that I can file it away in a system (email) that is more reliable and accessible to me.

 

Regarding the 2.4% stat about the custom profile content. I think it would be interesting to know what that stat is for Premium Members.

But regardless, I'm okay with the change noted in the Blog link. If I'm understanding it correctly, they're saying that the profile will land on the "Geocaches" tab by default, rather than the current "Profile" tab. I'm not reading that our custom profile info will go away, just that it will be moved to an "About". I'm okay with that. If I'm misunderstanding, then my opinion may change.

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If I'm understanding it correctly, they're saying that the profile will land on the "Geocaches" tab by default, rather than the current "Profile" tab. I'm not reading that our custom profile info will go away, just that it will be moved to an "About". I'm okay with that. If I'm misunderstanding, then my opinion may change.

Yep! You are understanding it correctly. We are not removing anyone's custom content, just changing the location.

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I started to write a long message, detailing my reasons why I very much prefer e-mail over the MC. But on second thought, I won't waste my time. Groundspeak has decided to remove the mail functionality, and no reasoning from cachers is going to change that :( . Just look at the recent complaints about the new logging page.

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For those that like to communicate via email – you can set your preferences to receive a notification to the email listed on your geocaching account. From there you can respond to the message via email and take the conversation out of Message Center, if that is your desire. For those folks, the only reason to use Message Center is to begin a conversation – after that the rest of the communication can take place via email."

 

It's possible I'm forgetting something, but it appears (to me) to be something not correct/clear here. How?

 

The few times we received message center notifications on our email (we posted to use email on our profile), we had to click the link to their profile to send email to them.

IIRC, we never saw a "send response by email" option...

If they will no longer have an Send Email option on the profile page, not sure how that can work. :huh:

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This would be a great time to fix the bug where you REMOVE TEXT from my email replies to message center notification emails. I've mentioned this before; you're changing the tone of my responses to somebody. I sign off with a friendly "Cheers, VP" as below, but there's no trace of it in the Message Center. Turns a friendly reply into a curt, impersonal one. Email never did that.

 

PS, I'll bet there are MANY people for whom the Message Center doesn't work. Not everybody speaks up. For example, I've never bothered mentioning before, it doesn't load for me in my up-to-date Firefox UNLESS I hit reload. Every. Time. It's goofy. I hate it. And just now it swallowed a reply to someone; I had to type it again. I HATE IT.

 

Just when you think the New Logging Bad Experience has a lock on the 2017 Better Mistakes award, along comes the removal of email as a serious contender. And it's only May!

 

Cheers,

VP

Edited by Viajero Perdido

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If I'm understanding it correctly, they're saying that the profile will land on the "Geocaches" tab by default, rather than the current "Profile" tab. I'm not reading that our custom profile info will go away, just that it will be moved to an "About". I'm okay with that. If I'm misunderstanding, then my opinion may change.
Yep! You are understanding it correctly. We are not removing anyone's custom content, just changing the location.
Was any consideration given to the idea of creating separate "about" and "personal statistics" tabs. IIRC, that idea seemed rather well received when it was brought up in one of your past feedback-oriented threads. It would allow people to put their GSAK-dump data in their "personal statistics" tab, while putting personal profile information in their "about" tab.

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For those that like to communicate via email – you can set your preferences to receive a notification to the email listed on your geocaching account. From there you can respond to the message via email and take the conversation out of Message Center, if that is your desire. For those folks, the only reason to use Message Center is to begin a conversation – after that the rest of the communication can take place via email."

It's possible I'm forgetting something, but it appears (to me) to be something not correct/clear here. How?

 

The few times we received message center notifications on our email (we posted to use email on our profile), we had to click the link to their profile to send email to them.

IIRC, we never saw a "send response by email" option...

If they will no longer have an Send Email option on the profile page, not sure how that can work. :huh:

You can just reply to the email. Assuming you're sending from the email address that's set as the primary email address in your profile, it should add your email to the conversation.

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IIRC, we never saw a "send response by email" option...
I've tried to use the "send response by email" function of the MC notifications.

 

Supposedly it works, as long as you've got your email set up just the way they expect you to have it set up. My email configuration differs from that, so it doesn't work for me. Instead, I go to the other person's profile page and send email that way.

 

Or at least, I used to.

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For those that like to communicate via email you can set your preferences to receive a notification to the email listed on your geocaching account. From there you can respond to the message via email and take the conversation out of Message Center, if that is your desire. For those folks, the only reason to use Message Center is to begin a conversation after that the rest of the communication can take place via email."

It's possible I'm forgetting something, but it appears (to me) to be something not correct/clear here. How?

 

The few times we received message center notifications on our email (we posted to use email on our profile), we had to click the link to their profile to send email to them.

IIRC, we never saw a "send response by email" option...

If they will no longer have an Send Email option on the profile page, not sure how that can work. :huh:

You can just reply to the email. Assuming you're sending from the email address that's set as the primary email address in your profile, it should add your email to the conversation.

Thanks. :)

Apparently it will happen sometime now, so I'll see it if that works.

- But now I see it didn't for another either...

Edited by cerberus1

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If I'm understanding it correctly, they're saying that the profile will land on the "Geocaches" tab by default, rather than the current "Profile" tab. I'm not reading that our custom profile info will go away, just that it will be moved to an "About". I'm okay with that. If I'm misunderstanding, then my opinion may change.
Yep! You are understanding it correctly. We are not removing anyone's custom content, just changing the location.
Was any consideration given to the idea of creating separate "about" and "personal statistics" tabs. IIRC, that idea seemed rather well received when it was brought up in one of your past feedback-oriented threads. It would allow people to put their GSAK-dump data in their "personal statistics" tab, while putting personal profile information in their "about" tab.

 

Touching the code in the tabs isn't in scope for where we are starting on the current profile refresh - it's super messy and incredibly fragile stuff. We're starting small and building from there. We would love to circle back to updating the information within the profile tabs, eventually. Maybe at that point we could separate those two out and create a better experience for folks who enjoy a beefed up 'personal stats' tab (me included). Not off the table, just not right now.

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PS, I'll bet there are MANY people for whom the Message Center doesn't work. Not everybody speaks up.

Not to mention that plenty of people did speak up when the message center was introduced. As I recall, a common response was, "Well, then just continue using e-mail if you don't like message center."

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This would be a great time to fix the bug where you REMOVE TEXT from my email replies to message center notification emails. I've mentioned this before; you're changing the tone of my responses to somebody. I sign off with a friendly "Cheers, VP" as below, but there's no trace of it in the Message Center. Turns a friendly reply into a curt, impersonal one. Email never did that.

 

PS, I'll bet there are MANY people for whom the Message Center doesn't work. Not everybody speaks up. For example, I've never bothered mentioning before, it doesn't load for me in my up-to-date Firefox UNLESS I hit reload. Every. Time. It's goofy. I hate it. And just now it swallowed a reply to someone; I had to type it again. I HATE IT.

 

Just when you think the New Logging Bad Experience has a lock on the 2017 Better Mistakes award, along comes the removal of email as a serious contender. And it's only May!

 

Cheers,

VP

 

Who knew that we were were the ones making you seem curt? :lol:

 

Seriously though, thanks for the bug report. I've noted it.

 

Happy caching!

Jayme H

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Happy caching!

 

 

Less happy these days. First the new logging experience reduces functionality and threatens aspects of the game that I like the most. Now email is disappearing, my personal profile is being shunted to the side, and the message center is being forced upon us. At this rate, i wonder if I will continue caching.

Edited by geodarts

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First the new logging experience reduces functionality and threatens aspects of the game that I like the most. Now email is disappearing, my personal profile is being shunted to the side, and the message center is being forced upon us. At this rate, i wonder if I will continue caching.

Summed up so succinctly.

 

Right now I'm afraid the biggest threat to the game we know and love is ... management.

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Again a shot in the foot!

 

Didn't make any sense to remove the send email functionality!

 

This is not facebook...

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Hey everyone-

 

Thanks for the feedback these past 24 hours. We really appreciate those of you who took the time to explain the exact problems and issues you were having with the Message Center. After hearing about how you use email differently than the Message Center we have decided to include the email option, as it currently exists, in the new Profile for now. You will see everything there when we release on Tuesday. For those of you who do like the Message Center but wish it had a few more features, we will be jumping in do some more work on it soon.

 

As an FYI about our release process with these projects you should know that thoughtful, grounded feedback about the problems you are having is what speaks the loudest to us (akin to the tone of the User Insights forums). It loses impact and focus for us when the feedback turns to a general dislike of anything changing. We know that change can be tough, especially when you have been seeing the same pages for many years. Please know that we aren't just changing things for the sake of change. We have technology concerns, we have usability concerns, and we have had requests to bring in new ideas and features from the geocaching community. You should know that even though we geocache, we aren't making decisions based off hunches or the way 'we' like to geocache (believe me, as I was a geocacher before I was a Lackey, that would be awesome!). Everyone plays the game differently and we try to allow for that kind of flexibility when we design features for the site. It is our responsibility to find a good balance between all these things. We will be listening to you all summer long, as we continue to add features and functionality to these two pages. When we hear grounded feedback about the problems you are having we will look for good solutions for them - it won't necessarily mean that the loudest feedback wins or that the solution you have proposed will be implemented, as there are LOTS of factors to consider. When new solutions are implemented we look at analytics and data to see how/if folks are using the features and combine it with the qualitative feedback that we hear here, in usability tests, and in interviews with geocachers to make our decisions.

 

Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts with us. Looking forward to working with all of you more this summer. :)

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Thanks for the feedback these past 24 hours. We really appreciate those of you who took the time to explain the exact problems and issues you were having with the Message Center. After hearing about how you use email differently than the Message Center we have decided to include the email option, as it currently exists, in the new Profile for now. You will see everything there when we release on Tuesday. For those of you who do like the Message Center but wish it had a few more features, we will be jumping in do some more work on it soon.

Cheers for Jayme!

But seriously, many thanks for re-considering.

 

Personally, I don't mind the concept of the Message Center, but the following things prevent me from endorsing a move to remove email functionality:

-- MC doesn't work reliably

-- MC input screen is very small

-- MC doesn't send a copy of my 'sent' message to my email - perhaps this option could be an added

-- MC conversations are difficult to manage, with no functionality to group or re-sort conversations

Edited by noncentric

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Hey everyone-

 

Thanks for the feedback these past 24 hours. We really appreciate those of you who took the time to explain the exact problems and issues you were having with the Message Center. After hearing about how you use email differently than the Message Center we have decided to include the email option, as it currently exists, in the new Profile for now. You will see everything there when we release on Tuesday. For those of you who do like the Message Center but wish it had a few more features, we will be jumping in do some more work on it soon.

 

As an FYI about our release process with these projects you should know that thoughtful, grounded feedback about the problems you are having is what speaks the loudest to us (akin to the tone of the User Insights forums). It loses impact and focus for us when the feedback turns to a general dislike of anything changing. We know that change can be tough, especially when you have been seeing the same pages for many years. Please know that we aren't just changing things for the sake of change. We have technology concerns, we have usability concerns, and we have had requests to bring in new ideas and features from the geocaching community. You should know that even though we geocache, we aren't making decisions based off hunches or the way 'we' like to geocache (believe me, as I was a geocacher before I was a Lackey, that would be awesome!). Everyone plays the game differently and we try to allow for that kind of flexibility when we design features for the site. It is our responsibility to find a good balance between all these things. We will be listening to you all summer long, as we continue to add features and functionality to these two pages. When we hear grounded feedback about the problems you are having we will look for good solutions for them - it won't necessarily mean that the loudest feedback wins or that the solution you have proposed will be implemented, as there are LOTS of factors to consider. When new solutions are implemented we look at analytics and data to see how/if folks are using the features and combine it with the qualitative feedback that we hear here, in usability tests, and in interviews with geocachers to make our decisions.

 

Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts with us. Looking forward to working with all of you more this summer. :)

Jayme, thanks for responding here and in the other thread.

 

While we're looking at things, can you please make sure that the message center script error that causes Firefox to freeze is on the list of issues? (Thanks!)

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Yes! Great feedback, guys. Thank you for pointing out those issues. They will be on my list of stuff to look at.

 

Thank you!

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Yes! Great feedback, guys. Thank you for pointing out those issues. They will be on my list of stuff to look at.

 

Thank you!

ca.jpg

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Hey everyone-

 

Thanks for the feedback these past 24 hours. We really appreciate those of you who took the time to explain the exact problems and issues you were having with the Message Center. After hearing about how you use email differently than the Message Center we have decided to include the email option, as it currently exists, in the new Profile for now. You will see everything there when we release on Tuesday. For those of you who do like the Message Center but wish it had a few more features, we will be jumping in do some more work on it soon.

 

 

THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!!

Great news!!

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Hey everyone-

(snip)

 

As an FYI about our release process with these projects you should know that thoughtful, grounded feedback about the problems you are having is what speaks the loudest to us (akin to the tone of the User Insights forums). It loses impact and focus for us when the feedback turns to a general dislike of anything changing. We know that change can be tough, especially when you have been seeing the same pages for many years. Please know that we aren't just changing things for the sake of change. We have technology concerns, we have usability concerns, and we have had requests to bring in new ideas and features from the geocaching community.

 

It's not that we are completely resistant to change, it is more that we would really appreciate it if the site were improved in the way of stability and functionality as a priority rather than all of the additions and aesthetic changes that make it less PC friendly.

 

The icons on the maps for example are (IMHO) much more difficult to discern. For example, our owned caches were nice yellow stars. Now they are green circles. Well, so are unfound trads. Unknowns were very appealing blue question marks. Now they are blue circles, well, so are Wherigos. It was so much easier to use the maps back when we were looking at the actual shapes of the icons along with the coloration. Now they are all just circles that so often just blend in with the others.

 

An example of a good map icon design was what we previously had - and what Project-GC currently has. The cache icons popped out! So easy to easily see what the next cache would be.

 

Anyway, I know, this is fairly off-topic but many of us still prefer to use GPSr's and computers for the hobby so we don't have our noses in our phones all day. Please don't forget this and that most of us who still use traditional technology have been loyal paying members for a decade or longer.

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Thanks for the feedback these past 24 hours. We really appreciate those of you who took the time to explain the exact problems and issues you were having with the Message Center. After hearing about how you use email differently than the Message Center we have decided to include the email option, as it currently exists, in the new Profile for now. You will see everything there when we release on Tuesday. For those of you who do like the Message Center but wish it had a few more features, we will be jumping in do some more work on it soon.

Thank you.

 

I hadn't commented but was about to argue that I felt that e-mail was a more resilient system going forward. In, say, 10 years time when the code that the message centre uses is out of date perhaps - rather like the spaghetti code that I think the blog post talks about maybe - my gut feeling is that an e-mail system is more likely to be simpler to continue to maintain. You'll be more able to avoid the problem you have with the profile stuff now.

 

E-mail, frankly, just works and will continue to work as it's the backbone of web communication really. It, honestly, strikes me as likely to be more reliable to maintain the option of contact via e-mail.

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If I'm understanding it correctly, they're saying that the profile will land on the "Geocaches" tab by default, rather than the current "Profile" tab. I'm not reading that our custom profile info will go away, just that it will be moved to an "About". I'm okay with that. If I'm misunderstanding, then my opinion may change.
Yep! You are understanding it correctly. We are not removing anyone's custom content, just changing the location.
Was any consideration given to the idea of creating separate "about" and "personal statistics" tabs. IIRC, that idea seemed rather well received when it was brought up in one of your past feedback-oriented threads. It would allow people to put their GSAK-dump data in their "personal statistics" tab, while putting personal profile information in their "about" tab.

 

Touching the code in the tabs isn't in scope for where we are starting on the current profile refresh - it's super messy and incredibly fragile stuff. We're starting small and building from there. We would love to circle back to updating the information within the profile tabs, eventually. Maybe at that point we could separate those two out and create a better experience for folks who enjoy a beefed up 'personal stats' tab (me included). Not off the table, just not right now.

 

I -and I suspect a great many others- are gonna hold you to this! I've no problem admitting I'm a stats guy B).

 

Seriously, though, I've put a lot of BS&T into them and I don't want to see them relegated to an afterthought. Perhaps I'm in the minority, but I actually do look at others' GSAK/FSG data. I'm not going to like being made to go digging for them and I can't imagine others will like it, either. As such, I appreciate your willingness to remain open to revisiting this at a later date.

 

One thing I am very glad to read is that the 'send email' functionality will be sticking around. The MC has been the bane of my caching experience for most of the reasons already cited, but I'll add another: (last time I checked)There's no way to delete anything!

 

I'm encouraged by your interactions here on the forum. Please continue to do so.

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I'm also glad to hear 'Send Email' will still be available.

I have only a "Dumb phone" and a laptop.

When I click on MC, it locks up more than 50% of the time when the lines for boxes are being drawn. I suspect it may be partly due to my satellite internet.

I have MC set to send all messages to my email and I respond from there.

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If I'm understanding it correctly, they're saying that the profile will land on the "Geocaches" tab by default, rather than the current "Profile" tab. I'm not reading that our custom profile info will go away, just that it will be moved to an "About". I'm okay with that. If I'm misunderstanding, then my opinion may change.

Yep! You are understanding it correctly. We are not removing anyone's custom content, just changing the location.

 

So at least please make that the default page IF it contains specific content! As you were able to find out how many are using that area you should be able to use that info while rendering the page, too.

 

Email: I would also like to still have it in the future!

 

Bye,

Christian

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