Abandoned Cache Adoption Events

7.4k · May 11, 2017

So - what should I do with the geotrash when I find it? I plan to NA it eventually, but what about what's left of the container and the moldy innerds...

Narcissa's post a couple up from yours answers your question nicely: http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=344300&view=findpost&p=5654074

In practice, if you are reasonably certain that the cache is not listed elsewhere, you probably won't run into any trouble if you take the container and contact the original owner with information so they can get it back from you if it's important to them. You run a slight risk of really ticking someone off if you do that.

Geocaching.com won't sanction that kind of thing, however. In the past there have been efforts to coordinate geocachers to remove archived caches - someone in my area actually created a challenge cache for this - but those things got shut down. It seems Groundspeak doesn't want to be dealing with angry cache owners who feel their stuff has been taken without permission.

TL;DR - Go ahead and take people's caches, but don't expect Geocaching.com to facilitate your efforts

But - isn't that "the textbook definition of stealing?"

(I actually plan to do that, but I figured I'd get this thread a little riled up... )

You definitely run a risk, however small, of really ticking off a cache owner if you steal their caches. So it's up to you to weigh the risk and the potential consequences of this unsanctioned vigilante cache clean-up.

I've been around the geocaching scene in my community long enough to know there are some seemingly quiet cache owners who don't participate much anymore, but who would react very strongly to another cacher removing their cache without permission. And it ain't pretty when that happens.

May 11, 2017

So - what should I do with the geotrash when I find it? I plan to NA it eventually, but what about what's left of the container and the moldy innerds...

Narcissa's post a couple up from yours answers your question nicely: http://forums.Ground...dpost&p=5654074

In practice, if you are reasonably certain that the cache is not listed elsewhere, you probably won't run into any trouble if you take the container and contact the original owner with information so they can get it back from you if it's important to them. You run a slight risk of really ticking someone off if you do that.

Geocaching.com won't sanction that kind of thing, however. In the past there have been efforts to coordinate geocachers to remove archived caches - someone in my area actually created a challenge cache for this - but those things got shut down. It seems Groundspeak doesn't want to be dealing with angry cache owners who feel their stuff has been taken without permission.

TL;DR - Go ahead and take people's caches, but don't expect Geocaching.com to facilitate your efforts

But - isn't that "the textbook definition of stealing?"

(I actually plan to do that, but I figured I'd get this thread a little riled up... )

You definitely run a risk, however small, of really ticking off a cache owner if you steal their caches. So it's up to you to weigh the risk and the potential consequences of this unsanctioned vigilante cache clean-up.

I've been around the geocaching scene in my community long enough to know there are some seemingly quiet cache owners who don't participate much anymore, but who would react very strongly to another cacher removing their cache without permission. And it ain't pretty when that happens.

I don't think there is anything wrong with being 'less than active', or even inactive. I just believe that if you're choosing to step away from it, the responsible thing to do, is to arrange for your caches to be maintained by someone else. Since Geocaching allows for adoption, etc... I don't see that as really asking too much.

7.4k · May 11, 2017

I never had any intent of organizing a 'Vigilante' group of anything... I don't know why you seem to have this obscenely negative view of what I'm proposing. Perhaps you don't understand what it is I proposed. Perhaps my word choice was inadequate to accurately describe the idea. Who knows?

As has been pointed out repeatedly, your idea runs afoul of the guidelines AND the terms of use of the site. It also ignores more than 15 years of geocaching history and discussion, much of which is literally at your fingertips. This makes it unworkable, unless you intend to engage in these activities outside of official parameters.

If you don't mean to engage in vigilantism, you really should spend some time educating yourself about the way the game operates and the past history of these issues so you can formulate a more workable plan.

7.4k · May 11, 2017

So - what should I do with the geotrash when I find it? I plan to NA it eventually, but what about what's left of the container and the moldy innerds...

Narcissa's post a couple up from yours answers your question nicely: http://forums.Ground...dpost&p=5654074

In practice, if you are reasonably certain that the cache is not listed elsewhere, you probably won't run into any trouble if you take the container and contact the original owner with information so they can get it back from you if it's important to them. You run a slight risk of really ticking someone off if you do that.

Geocaching.com won't sanction that kind of thing, however. In the past there have been efforts to coordinate geocachers to remove archived caches - someone in my area actually created a challenge cache for this - but those things got shut down. It seems Groundspeak doesn't want to be dealing with angry cache owners who feel their stuff has been taken without permission.

TL;DR - Go ahead and take people's caches, but don't expect Geocaching.com to facilitate your efforts

But - isn't that "the textbook definition of stealing?"

(I actually plan to do that, but I figured I'd get this thread a little riled up... )

You definitely run a risk, however small, of really ticking off a cache owner if you steal their caches. So it's up to you to weigh the risk and the potential consequences of this unsanctioned vigilante cache clean-up.

I've been around the geocaching scene in my community long enough to know there are some seemingly quiet cache owners who don't participate much anymore, but who would react very strongly to another cacher removing their cache without permission. And it ain't pretty when that happens.

I don't think there is anything wrong with being 'less than active', or even inactive. I just believe that if you're choosing to step away from it, the responsible thing to do, is to arrange for your caches to be maintained by someone else. Since Geocaching allows for adoption, etc... I don't see that as really asking too much.

That's grand, but I personally wouldn't be terribly keen on being on the receiving end of a complaint against my user account because I decided to march around taking over, or removing, other people's caches without their consent. YMMV.

Geocaching.com allows for cache adoption, but doesn't require it, and certainly doesn't inflict it on anyone without their express permission.

May 11, 2017

So - what should I do with the geotrash when I find it? I plan to NA it eventually, but what about what's left of the container and the moldy innerds...

Narcissa's post a couple up from yours answers your question nicely: http://forums.Ground...dpost&p=5654074

In practice, if you are reasonably certain that the cache is not listed elsewhere, you probably won't run into any trouble if you take the container and contact the original owner with information so they can get it back from you if it's important to them. You run a slight risk of really ticking someone off if you do that.

Geocaching.com won't sanction that kind of thing, however. In the past there have been efforts to coordinate geocachers to remove archived caches - someone in my area actually created a challenge cache for this - but those things got shut down. It seems Groundspeak doesn't want to be dealing with angry cache owners who feel their stuff has been taken without permission.

TL;DR - Go ahead and take people's caches, but don't expect Geocaching.com to facilitate your efforts

But - isn't that "the textbook definition of stealing?"

(I actually plan to do that, but I figured I'd get this thread a little riled up... )

You definitely run a risk, however small, of really ticking off a cache owner if you steal their caches. So it's up to you to weigh the risk and the potential consequences of this unsanctioned vigilante cache clean-up.

I've been around the geocaching scene in my community long enough to know there are some seemingly quiet cache owners who don't participate much anymore, but who would react very strongly to another cacher removing their cache without permission. And it ain't pretty when that happens.

I don't think there is anything wrong with being 'less than active', or even inactive. I just believe that if you're choosing to step away from it, the responsible thing to do, is to arrange for your caches to be maintained by someone else. Since Geocaching allows for adoption, etc... I don't see that as really asking too much.

That's grand, but I personally wouldn't be terribly keen on being on the receiving end of a complaint against my user account because I decided to march around taking over, or removing, other people's caches without their consent. YMMV.

Geocaching.com allows for cache adoption, but doesn't require it, and certainly doesn't inflict it on anyone without their express permission.

Just amazing...

May 11, 2017

Abandoned cache meaning a cache that needs attention for how long? 3 months? 5 months? A year? Unless the CO writes a note saying the cache is abandoned, we can only assume that the CO has intentions to come out and fix it when they can.

May 11, 2017

I never had any intent of organizing a 'Vigilante' group of anything... I don't know why you seem to have this obscenely negative view of what I'm proposing. Perhaps you don't understand what it is I proposed. Perhaps my word choice was inadequate to accurately describe the idea. Who knows?

As has been pointed out repeatedly, your idea runs afoul of the guidelines AND the terms of use of the site. It also ignores more than 15 years of geocaching history and discussion, much of which is literally at your fingertips. This makes it unworkable, unless you intend to engage in these activities outside of official parameters.

If you don't mean to engage in vigilantism, you really should spend some time educating yourself about the way the game operates and the past history of these issues so you can formulate a more workable plan.

While I was away from Geocaching as a whole for several years, I came into it while I, myself, and the game were both still pretty young, and have a pretty strong understanding of how 'the game operates'. Am I going to read through (maybe) dozens or more forum discussions about the topic from years ago, before opening a new dialog about it? No, I'm not. If the discussions are in the past, and the issue in question is still an issue, then, for all intents and purposes, those discussions stand to present nothing more than banter. Times change, people change, rules change.. That is life.

So - what should I do with the geotrash when I find it? I plan to NA it eventually, but what about what's left of the container and the moldy innerds...

Narcissa's post a couple up from yours answers your question nicely: http://forums.Ground...dpost&p=5654074

In practice, if you are reasonably certain that the cache is not listed elsewhere, you probably won't run into any trouble if you take the container and contact the original owner with information so they can get it back from you if it's important to them. You run a slight risk of really ticking someone off if you do that.

Geocaching.com won't sanction that kind of thing, however. In the past there have been efforts to coordinate geocachers to remove archived caches - someone in my area actually created a challenge cache for this - but those things got shut down. It seems Groundspeak doesn't want to be dealing with angry cache owners who feel their stuff has been taken without permission.

TL;DR - Go ahead and take people's caches, but don't expect Geocaching.com to facilitate your efforts

But - isn't that "the textbook definition of stealing?"

(I actually plan to do that, but I figured I'd get this thread a little riled up... )

You definitely run a risk, however small, of really ticking off a cache owner if you steal their caches. So it's up to you to weigh the risk and the potential consequences of this unsanctioned vigilante cache clean-up.

I've been around the geocaching scene in my community long enough to know there are some seemingly quiet cache owners who don't participate much anymore, but who would react very strongly to another cacher removing their cache without permission. And it ain't pretty when that happens.

I don't think there is anything wrong with being 'less than active', or even inactive. I just believe that if you're choosing to step away from it, the responsible thing to do, is to arrange for your caches to be maintained by someone else. Since Geocaching allows for adoption, etc... I don't see that as really asking too much.

That's grand, but I personally wouldn't be terribly keen on being on the receiving end of a complaint against my user account because I decided to march around taking over, or removing, other people's caches without their consent. YMMV.

Geocaching.com allows for cache adoption, but doesn't require it, and certainly doesn't inflict it on anyone without their express permission.

Again, never said that I would do that, nor did I suggest that anyone else did. You seem to have in your mind that I am suggesting such things, and continue to perpetuate the idea that I am, despite being directly corrected on multiple occasions. I'd suggest that you familiarize yourself with the Forum Guidelines:

At this point, I don't feel any of your responses are constructive, and find that, nearly all of them in response to this topic have been inflammatory, in that they seem to have no purpose other than to arouse hostility or anger.

May 11, 2017

So - what should I do with the geotrash when I find it? I plan to NA it eventually, but what about what's left of the container and the moldy innerds...

Narcissa's post a couple up from yours answers your question nicely: http://forums.Ground...dpost&p=5654074

In practice, if you are reasonably certain that the cache is not listed elsewhere, you probably won't run into any trouble if you take the container and contact the original owner with information so they can get it back from you if it's important to them. You run a slight risk of really ticking someone off if you do that.

Geocaching.com won't sanction that kind of thing, however. In the past there have been efforts to coordinate geocachers to remove archived caches - someone in my area actually created a challenge cache for this - but those things got shut down. It seems Groundspeak doesn't want to be dealing with angry cache owners who feel their stuff has been taken without permission.

TL;DR - Go ahead and take people's caches, but don't expect Geocaching.com to facilitate your efforts

But - isn't that "the textbook definition of stealing?"

(I actually plan to do that, but I figured I'd get this thread a little riled up... )

You definitely run a risk, however small, of really ticking off a cache owner if you steal their caches. So it's up to you to weigh the risk and the potential consequences of this unsanctioned vigilante cache clean-up.

I've been around the geocaching scene in my community long enough to know there are some seemingly quiet cache owners who don't participate much anymore, but who would react very strongly to another cacher removing their cache without permission. And it ain't pretty when that happens.

I don't think there is anything wrong with being 'less than active', or even inactive. I just believe that if you're choosing to step away from it, the responsible thing to do, is to arrange for your caches to be maintained by someone else. Since Geocaching allows for adoption, etc... I don't see that as really asking too much.

That's grand, but I personally wouldn't be terribly keen on being on the receiving end of a complaint against my user account because I decided to march around taking over, or removing, other people's caches without their consent. YMMV.

Geocaching.com allows for cache adoption, but doesn't require it, and certainly doesn't inflict it on anyone without their express permission.

Just amazing...

Unbelievable, is it not?

Abandoned cache meaning a cache that needs attention for how long? 3 months? 5 months? A year? Unless the CO writes a note saying the cache is abandoned, we can only assume that the CO has intentions to come out and fix it when they can.

I think most people probably intend to return at some point, though, that doesn't mean they will. And if they do, I think it is reasonable to assume that after a long period of time (say, over a year?) of non-maintenance, and reports of a worn-out, shoddy cache, or a missing cache, that it will be, at the very least disabled, if not archived.

May 11, 2017

So - what should I do with the geotrash when I find it? I plan to NA it eventually, but what about what's left of the container and the moldy innerds...

Narcissa's post a couple up from yours answers your question nicely: http://forums.Ground...dpost&p=5654074

In practice, if you are reasonably certain that the cache is not listed elsewhere, you probably won't run into any trouble if you take the container and contact the original owner with information so they can get it back from you if it's important to them. You run a slight risk of really ticking someone off if you do that.

Geocaching.com won't sanction that kind of thing, however. In the past there have been efforts to coordinate geocachers to remove archived caches - someone in my area actually created a challenge cache for this - but those things got shut down. It seems Groundspeak doesn't want to be dealing with angry cache owners who feel their stuff has been taken without permission.

TL;DR - Go ahead and take people's caches, but don't expect Geocaching.com to facilitate your efforts

But - isn't that "the textbook definition of stealing?"

(I actually plan to do that, but I figured I'd get this thread a little riled up... )

You definitely run a risk, however small, of really ticking off a cache owner if you steal their caches. So it's up to you to weigh the risk and the potential consequences of this unsanctioned vigilante cache clean-up.

I've been around the geocaching scene in my community long enough to know there are some seemingly quiet cache owners who don't participate much anymore, but who would react very strongly to another cacher removing their cache without permission. And it ain't pretty when that happens.

I don't think there is anything wrong with being 'less than active', or even inactive. I just believe that if you're choosing to step away from it, the responsible thing to do, is to arrange for your caches to be maintained by someone else. Since Geocaching allows for adoption, etc... I don't see that as really asking too much.

Nah. I think people are free to do whatever they want with their cache. If a cache goes missing, and the CO wants to replace it six months later, there shouldn't be any issues with that.

May 11, 2017

So - what should I do with the geotrash when I find it? I plan to NA it eventually, but what about what's left of the container and the moldy innerds...

Narcissa's post a couple up from yours answers your question nicely: http://forums.Ground...dpost&p=5654074

In practice, if you are reasonably certain that the cache is not listed elsewhere, you probably won't run into any trouble if you take the container and contact the original owner with information so they can get it back from you if it's important to them. You run a slight risk of really ticking someone off if you do that.

Geocaching.com won't sanction that kind of thing, however. In the past there have been efforts to coordinate geocachers to remove archived caches - someone in my area actually created a challenge cache for this - but those things got shut down. It seems Groundspeak doesn't want to be dealing with angry cache owners who feel their stuff has been taken without permission.

TL;DR - Go ahead and take people's caches, but don't expect Geocaching.com to facilitate your efforts

But - isn't that "the textbook definition of stealing?"

(I actually plan to do that, but I figured I'd get this thread a little riled up... )

You definitely run a risk, however small, of really ticking off a cache owner if you steal their caches. So it's up to you to weigh the risk and the potential consequences of this unsanctioned vigilante cache clean-up.

I've been around the geocaching scene in my community long enough to know there are some seemingly quiet cache owners who don't participate much anymore, but who would react very strongly to another cacher removing their cache without permission. And it ain't pretty when that happens.

I don't think there is anything wrong with being 'less than active', or even inactive. I just believe that if you're choosing to step away from it, the responsible thing to do, is to arrange for your caches to be maintained by someone else. Since Geocaching allows for adoption, etc... I don't see that as really asking too much.

That's grand, but I personally wouldn't be terribly keen on being on the receiving end of a complaint against my user account because I decided to march around taking over, or removing, other people's caches without their consent. YMMV.

Geocaching.com allows for cache adoption, but doesn't require it, and certainly doesn't inflict it on anyone without their express permission.

Just amazing...

Unbelievable, is it not?

Abandoned cache meaning a cache that needs attention for how long? 3 months? 5 months? A year? Unless the CO writes a note saying the cache is abandoned, we can only assume that the CO has intentions to come out and fix it when they can.

I think most people probably intend to return at some point, though, that doesn't mean they will. And if they do, I think it is reasonable to assume that after a long period of time (say, over a year?) of non-maintenance, and reports of a worn-out, shoddy cache, or a missing cache, that it will be, at the very least disabled, if not archived.

Yeah, exactly. Geocaching.com already has a system in place, that eventually, if COs let their caches go long enough a reviewer will step in and either 1) disable it or 2) archive it after no CO response. There doesn't need to be anymore to it.

May 11, 2017

So - what should I do with the geotrash when I find it? I plan to NA it eventually, but what about what's left of the container and the moldy innerds...

Narcissa's post a couple up from yours answers your question nicely: http://forums.Ground...dpost&p=5654074

In practice, if you are reasonably certain that the cache is not listed elsewhere, you probably won't run into any trouble if you take the container and contact the original owner with information so they can get it back from you if it's important to them. You run a slight risk of really ticking someone off if you do that.

Geocaching.com won't sanction that kind of thing, however. In the past there have been efforts to coordinate geocachers to remove archived caches - someone in my area actually created a challenge cache for this - but those things got shut down. It seems Groundspeak doesn't want to be dealing with angry cache owners who feel their stuff has been taken without permission.

TL;DR - Go ahead and take people's caches, but don't expect Geocaching.com to facilitate your efforts

But - isn't that "the textbook definition of stealing?"

(I actually plan to do that, but I figured I'd get this thread a little riled up... )

You definitely run a risk, however small, of really ticking off a cache owner if you steal their caches. So it's up to you to weigh the risk and the potential consequences of this unsanctioned vigilante cache clean-up.

I've been around the geocaching scene in my community long enough to know there are some seemingly quiet cache owners who don't participate much anymore, but who would react very strongly to another cacher removing their cache without permission. And it ain't pretty when that happens.

I don't think there is anything wrong with being 'less than active', or even inactive. I just believe that if you're choosing to step away from it, the responsible thing to do, is to arrange for your caches to be maintained by someone else. Since Geocaching allows for adoption, etc... I don't see that as really asking too much.

Nah. I think people are free to do whatever they want with their cache. If a cache goes missing, and the CO wants to replace it six months later, there shouldn't be any issues with that.

How is that not an issue? So for six months of it being reported as missing, people should just waste their time? No a cache owner shouldn't go out after 1 or 2 DNFs. After 3-4, they should probably, at the very least, open a dialog with one of the most recent cachers to report it, and see if they can establish that it is actually missing.

--

I digress

--

But we're not talking about members who are maintaining their caches, and simply giving some leeway for people just not finding it, etc... We're talking about members who have been inactive for a long time, and just are not maintaining their caches.

When I joined Geocaching back in 2003, the community, obviously, was much smaller, but people actually used the tools presented to them. And when a cache was in dire need of maintenance, it would get the reviewer attention it needed, because cachers would use those functions to make them aware.

May 11, 2017

I think most people probably intend to return at some point, though, that doesn't mean they will. And if they do, I think it is reasonable to assume that after a long period of time (say, over a year?) of non-maintenance, and reports of a worn-out, shoddy cache, or a missing cache, that it will be, at the very least disabled, if not archived.

Yeah, exactly. Geocaching.com already has a system in place, that eventually, if COs let their caches go long enough a reviewer will step in and either 1) disable it or 2) archive it after no CO response. There doesn't need to be anymore to it.

Eventually... that is the point though. You have argued how long is long enough before a cache qualifies for... whatever it is this discussion is about at this point... well, how long before eventually is too long? As previously stated, if something isn't being maintained, it becomes trash in the woods (or wherever...).

One of the key core-values of Groundspeak that kept me interested, and even following the news on Geocaching when I wasn't participating, is the devotion to cleaning up the environment.

May 11, 2017

Yeah, exactly. Geocaching.com already has a system in place, that eventually, if COs let their caches go long enough a reviewer will step in and either 1) disable it or 2) archive it after no CO response. There doesn't need to be anymore to it.

Very true - GS has a solution to the inactive CO / abandoned cache as far as the NM - NA etc...

The argument here is what to do about the geotrash that's left behind. Sure, it's no longer on the GC site, but it's still there with MOLD growing in it.

I'd like to ASSume that if once it becomes archived, it's no longer considered a "cache." If that's the case, then it's just an object that someone stuffed in a tree trunk while hiking... if we consider it _no longer_ a cache, then any Good Samaritan could pick up the trash...

Now I'm sure that some here will scream "Thief!" But I'm by no means advocating picking up and throwing away a perfectly good container. Only geotrash.

The problem isn't what to do with the listing. I believe it's what to do with the piece of plastic / metal...

Edited May 11, 2017 by WearyTraveler

May 11, 2017

Here's an option that hopefully everyone can get behind...

Once a cache gets enough NMs and is eventually NAd and removed electronically from GC, how about we move the container to the trail head and send the CO a note that if he wants it, it's waiting for him in the 50gal container by the picnic table.

That way we're only on the hook for "moving" the cache _and_ we've helped clean up the environment...

May 11, 2017

Yeah, exactly. Geocaching.com already has a system in place, that eventually, if COs let their caches go long enough a reviewer will step in and either 1) disable it or 2) archive it after no CO response. There doesn't need to be anymore to it.

Very true - GS has a solution to the inactive CO / abandoned cache as far as the NM - NA etc...

The argument here is what to do about the geotrash that's left behind. Sure, it's no longer on the GC site, but it's still there with MOLD growing in it.

I'd like to ASSume that if once it becomes archived, it's no longer considered a "cache." If that's the case, then it's just an object that someone stuffed in a tree trunk while hiking... if we consider it _no longer_ a cache, then any Good Samaritan could pick up the trash...

Now I'm sure that some here will scream "Thief!" But I'm by no means advocating picking up and throwing away a perfectly good container. Only geotrash.

The problem isn't what to do with the listing. I believe it's what to do with the piece of plastic / metal...

Here's an option that hopefully everyone can get behind...

Once a cache gets enough NMs and is eventually NAd and removed electronically from GC, how about we move the container to the trail head and send the CO a note that if he wants it, it's waiting for him in the 50gal container by the picnic table.

That way we're only on the hook for "moving" the cache _and_ we've helped clean up the environment...

#WearyTravelerForPresident

May 11, 2017

Yeah, exactly. Geocaching.com already has a system in place, that eventually, if COs let their caches go long enough a reviewer will step in and either 1) disable it or 2) archive it after no CO response. There doesn't need to be anymore to it.

Very true - GS has a solution to the inactive CO / abandoned cache as far as the NM - NA etc...

The argument here is what to do about the geotrash that's left behind. Sure, it's no longer on the GC site, but it's still there with MOLD growing in it.

I'd like to ASSume that if once it becomes archived, it's no longer considered a "cache." If that's the case, then it's just an object that someone stuffed in a tree trunk while hiking... if we consider it _no longer_ a cache, then any Good Samaritan could pick up the trash...

Now I'm sure that some here will scream "Thief!" But I'm by no means advocating picking up and throwing away a perfectly good container. Only geotrash.

The problem isn't what to do with the listing. I believe it's what to do with the piece of plastic / metal...

Here's an option that hopefully everyone can get behind...

Once a cache gets enough NMs and is eventually NAd and removed electronically from GC, how about we move the container to the trail head and send the CO a note that if he wants it, it's waiting for him in the 50gal container by the picnic table.

That way we're only on the hook for "moving" the cache _and_ we've helped clean up the environment...

#WearyTravelerForPresident

Nahhh... I'm too much of a cachehole!

If nominated, I will not run.

If elected, I will not serve...

Send your campaign contributions to this address..

5.7k · May 11, 2017

One of the key core-values of Groundspeak that kept me interested, and even following the news on Geocaching when I wasn't participating, is the devotion to cleaning up the environment.

Remember it's the same company that allows power trails of pill bottles tossed out along busy highways. That is just litter and creating a traffic hazard as I see it.

As for you abandoned cache event idea, it sounds feasible that you host a CITO event and go out and gather up all these owner-less caches and remove them from the environment and post your NA's accordingly.

15.3k · May 11, 2017

I'd like to ASSume that if once it becomes archived, it's no longer considered a "cache."

Maybe. Maybe not.

Groundspeak does not own geocaching. There are other listing sites out there. And people do occasionally leave Groundspeak's listing site and use some other listing site to play the game.

On the other hand, there are plenty of people who just leave, and their abandoned containers are just trash. And there are locations where permission is granted only if you list the cache on the geocaching.com site, so if it is archived here, then it no longer has permission, and it is trash. (You are free to list the cache on other listing sites also, but it must be listed here to receive permission.)

So... Maybe. Maybe not.

May 11, 2017

P.S. I'm not busy at work, so I decided to thoroughly read through the Terms of Use Agreement.

Section 3, Subsection B does indeed state:

"Individual geocaches are owned by the person(s) who physically placed the geocache. Geocache listings published through our services are owned by the person who submitted the geocache listing for publication."

However

Subsections C. and D. of the same section tell a slightly different tale...

"C. Your Content. All content you submit through our services remains yours; this includes your geocache logs and pictures, your comments and anything you post to our discussion forums. You and not Groundspeak are entirely responsible for all content that you upload, post or otherwise transmit via our services. You represent and warrant that you have all necessary rights and permissions required for all content you post and for the rights you grant to us below, and that your content does not violate this this Agreement, other Groundspeak terms, policies or guidelines, the rights of any other party or applicable law. "

"D. The Rights You Grant Us to Your Content. By submitting content to our services, you grant Groundspeak a worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable, and fully transferable and sublicensable right to use, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, translate, create derivative works from, distribute, and display such content in any media now known or created in the future for any purpose. You agree that we have no obligation to monitor or protect your rights in any content that you may submit to us, but in the event that someone else takes content you have submitted through our services without either of our permission, you give us the right to request that they take the content off of their website or otherwise stop using it. "

Now, I'm no lawyer, and I'd like Keystone's opinion, given that Keystone is indeed a lawyer (at least, based on what they've posted)... BUT... If I read this correctly, under the ToU Agreement:

Content (posted to GS services)

Is not owned by GS
Is subject to applicable law

Your Geocache listing

Is Content
Is owned by you

Assuming this information is true, and looking at Subsection D., one could ascertain that, while GS is not liable or responsible for any of your content, you have granted GS "a worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable, and fully transferable and sublicensable right to use, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, translate, create derivative works from, distribute, and display such content in any media now known or created in the future for any purpose"

If I am to understand that correctly... GS has the complete right to transfer those same rights to any person(s) (including users/members of their services) in regards to a cache listing.

--

End tirade... Again, this isn't even really what this is about, so much as, I'm annoyed that it's been harped on repeatedly, and if I'm not mistaken (which I may be) then that harping was for nought.

May 11, 2017

Yeah, exactly. Geocaching.com already has a system in place, that eventually, if COs let their caches go long enough a reviewer will step in and either 1) disable it or 2) archive it after no CO response. There doesn't need to be anymore to it.

Very true - GS has a solution to the inactive CO / abandoned cache as far as the NM - NA etc...

The argument here is what to do about the geotrash that's left behind. Sure, it's no longer on the GC site, but it's still there with MOLD growing in it.

I'd like to ASSume that if once it becomes archived, it's no longer considered a "cache." If that's the case, then it's just an object that someone stuffed in a tree trunk while hiking... if we consider it _no longer_ a cache, then any Good Samaritan could pick up the trash...

Now I'm sure that some here will scream "Thief!" But I'm by no means advocating picking up and throwing away a perfectly good container. Only geotrash.

The problem isn't what to do with the listing. I believe it's what to do with the piece of plastic / metal...

Here's an option that hopefully everyone can get behind...

Once a cache gets enough NMs and is eventually NAd and removed electronically from GC, how about we move the container to the trail head and send the CO a note that if he wants it, it's waiting for him in the 50gal container by the picnic table.

That way we're only on the hook for "moving" the cache _and_ we've helped clean up the environment...

#WearyTravelerForPresident

Nahhh... I'm too much of a cachehole!

If nominated, I will not run.

If elected, I will not serve...

Send your campaign contributions to this address..

Welp... You've got my vote! Shut up and take my money!

One of the key core-values of Groundspeak that kept me interested, and even following the news on Geocaching when I wasn't participating, is the devotion to cleaning up the environment.

Remember it's the same company that allows power trails of pill bottles tossed out along busy highways. That is just litter and creating a traffic hazard as I see it.

As for you abandoned cache event idea, it sounds feasible that you host a CITO event and go out and gather up all these owner-less caches and remove them from the environment and post your NA's accordingly.

Thank you. I appreciate your contribution to the topic.

7.4k · May 11, 2017

I never had any intent of organizing a 'Vigilante' group of anything... I don't know why you seem to have this obscenely negative view of what I'm proposing. Perhaps you don't understand what it is I proposed. Perhaps my word choice was inadequate to accurately describe the idea. Who knows?

As has been pointed out repeatedly, your idea runs afoul of the guidelines AND the terms of use of the site. It also ignores more than 15 years of geocaching history and discussion, much of which is literally at your fingertips. This makes it unworkable, unless you intend to engage in these activities outside of official parameters.

If you don't mean to engage in vigilantism, you really should spend some time educating yourself about the way the game operates and the past history of these issues so you can formulate a more workable plan.

While I was away from Geocaching as a whole for several years, I came into it while I, myself, and the game were both still pretty young, and have a pretty strong understanding of how 'the game operates'. Am I going to read through (maybe) dozens or more forum discussions about the topic from years ago, before opening a new dialog about it? No, I'm not. If the discussions are in the past, and the issue in question is still an issue, then, for all intents and purposes, those discussions stand to present nothing more than banter. Times change, people change, rules change.. That is life.

So - what should I do with the geotrash when I find it? I plan to NA it eventually, but what about what's left of the container and the moldy innerds...

Narcissa's post a couple up from yours answers your question nicely: http://forums.Ground...dpost&p=5654074

In practice, if you are reasonably certain that the cache is not listed elsewhere, you probably won't run into any trouble if you take the container and contact the original owner with information so they can get it back from you if it's important to them. You run a slight risk of really ticking someone off if you do that.

Geocaching.com won't sanction that kind of thing, however. In the past there have been efforts to coordinate geocachers to remove archived caches - someone in my area actually created a challenge cache for this - but those things got shut down. It seems Groundspeak doesn't want to be dealing with angry cache owners who feel their stuff has been taken without permission.

TL;DR - Go ahead and take people's caches, but don't expect Geocaching.com to facilitate your efforts

But - isn't that "the textbook definition of stealing?"

(I actually plan to do that, but I figured I'd get this thread a little riled up... )

You definitely run a risk, however small, of really ticking off a cache owner if you steal their caches. So it's up to you to weigh the risk and the potential consequences of this unsanctioned vigilante cache clean-up.

I've been around the geocaching scene in my community long enough to know there are some seemingly quiet cache owners who don't participate much anymore, but who would react very strongly to another cacher removing their cache without permission. And it ain't pretty when that happens.

I don't think there is anything wrong with being 'less than active', or even inactive. I just believe that if you're choosing to step away from it, the responsible thing to do, is to arrange for your caches to be maintained by someone else. Since Geocaching allows for adoption, etc... I don't see that as really asking too much.

That's grand, but I personally wouldn't be terribly keen on being on the receiving end of a complaint against my user account because I decided to march around taking over, or removing, other people's caches without their consent. YMMV.

Geocaching.com allows for cache adoption, but doesn't require it, and certainly doesn't inflict it on anyone without their express permission.

Again, never said that I would do that, nor did I suggest that anyone else did. You seem to have in your mind that I am suggesting such things, and continue to perpetuate the idea that I am, despite being directly corrected on multiple occasions. I'd suggest that you familiarize yourself with the Forum Guidelines:

At this point, I don't feel any of your responses are constructive, and find that, nearly all of them in response to this topic have been inflammatory, in that they seem to have no purpose other than to arouse hostility or anger.

It could be argued that a post written to dredge up an issue with a history of extensive, heated debate in the forum may be intended to arouse hostility and anger, but my assumption, since I am unfamiliar with the user account that posted this, is that the post was written honestly without prior knowledge of the history.

Several people, including a reviewer, have explained why the original proposal isn't really workable within the scope of the game as it is operated on this particular listing site. Since this abandoned cache issue seems to be of great concern to some cachers, I don't see what is hostile about suggesting that a more detailed understanding of the issue might lead to some better ideas on how to handle it. I think all good cachers recognize that abandoned caches are a bit of a black eye for the game, especially the cachers who are actually on the front lines when it comes to land managers.

4.6k · May 11, 2017

One of the key core-values of Groundspeak that kept me interested, and even following the news on Geocaching when I wasn't participating, is the devotion to cleaning up the environment.

Remember it's the same company that allows power trails of pill bottles tossed out along busy highways. That is just litter and creating a traffic hazard as I see it.

As for you abandoned cache event idea, it sounds feasible that you host a CITO event and go out and gather up all these owner-less caches and remove them from the environment and post your NA's accordingly.

Funny you should say that - I was thinking along similar lines but in a different direction...

Part of the debate here seems to revolve around the idea that we can't know that a cache is trash and thus confidently place it where trash belongs because:

i) It's someone's property - and the owner is out there - SOMEWHERE

ii) It might be listed on some other website somewhere that we don't know about

If we stick strictly to that line of thinking I posit that we should put an end to CITO events just in case the trash that typically gets properly disposed of at the end

i) Is someone's property - and the owner is out there - SOMEWHERE

ii) Is listed on some website somewhere that we don't know about

I've admittedly attended few CITO events but I never remember even once a single person inspecting a piece of trash and agonizing about whether or not removing it from the environment was

i) A good thing

ii) Completely acceptable and free from threat of prosecution

5.7k · May 11, 2017

One of the key core-values of Groundspeak that kept me interested, and even following the news on Geocaching when I wasn't participating, is the devotion to cleaning up the environment.

Remember it's the same company that allows power trails of pill bottles tossed out along busy highways. That is just litter and creating a traffic hazard as I see it.

As for you abandoned cache event idea, it sounds feasible that you host a CITO event and go out and gather up all these owner-less caches and remove them from the environment and post your NA's accordingly.

Funny you should say that - I was thinking along similar lines but in a different direction...

Part of the debate here seems to revolve around the idea that we can't know that a cache is trash and thus confidently place it where trash belongs because:

i) It's someone's property - and the owner is out there - SOMEWHERE

ii) It might be listed on some other website somewhere that we don't know about

Locally I'm aware of cross listings and such on other services because I play there myself. I select geocaches that I seek, and if there are ones like the glass jar full of mush where the owner has not signed on or found any geocaches in a few years, I cart the trash off and post a NA.

May 11, 2017

One of the key core-values of Groundspeak that kept me interested, and even following the news on Geocaching when I wasn't participating, is the devotion to cleaning up the environment.

Remember it's the same company that allows power trails of pill bottles tossed out along busy highways. That is just litter and creating a traffic hazard as I see it.

As for you abandoned cache event idea, it sounds feasible that you host a CITO event and go out and gather up all these owner-less caches and remove them from the environment and post your NA's accordingly.

Funny you should say that - I was thinking along similar lines but in a different direction...

Part of the debate here seems to revolve around the idea that we can't know that a cache is trash and thus confidently place it where trash belongs because:

i) It's someone's property - and the owner is out there - SOMEWHERE

ii) It might be listed on some other website somewhere that we don't know about

Locally I'm aware of cross listings and such on other services because I play there myself. I select geocaches that I seek, and if there are ones like the glass jar full of mush where the owner has not signed on or found any geocaches in a few years, I cart the trash off and post a NA.

High-Stinkin' Five for you! I just always try to give people the BotD, at least until I get back home, and find that they have a ton of reports of poor maintenance, and then see a 'Last Active: January 9, 2011'

May 11, 2017

I select geocaches that I seek, and if there are ones like the glass jar full of mush where the owner has not signed on or found any geocaches in a few years, I cart the trash off and post a NA.

[sarcasm]

How could you!!! youd better hope that local LEO doesn't get wind of that transgression! They'll take away your evil black gun and gas mask!

[\sarcasm]

5.7k · May 11, 2017

I select geocaches that I seek, and if there are ones like the glass jar full of mush where the owner has not signed on or found any geocaches in a few years, I cart the trash off and post a NA.

[sarcasm]

How could you!!! youd better hope that local LEO doesn't get wind of that transgression! They'll take away your evil black gun and gas mask!

[\sarcasm]

Don't forget the drone in the upper left corner.

Edited May 11, 2017 by Manville Possum

May 11, 2017

So - what should I do with the geotrash when I find it? I plan to NA it eventually, but what about what's left of the container and the moldy innerds...

Narcissa's post a couple up from yours answers your question nicely: http://forums.Ground...dpost&p=5654074

In practice, if you are reasonably certain that the cache is not listed elsewhere, you probably won't run into any trouble if you take the container and contact the original owner with information so they can get it back from you if it's important to them. You run a slight risk of really ticking someone off if you do that.

Geocaching.com won't sanction that kind of thing, however. In the past there have been efforts to coordinate geocachers to remove archived caches - someone in my area actually created a challenge cache for this - but those things got shut down. It seems Groundspeak doesn't want to be dealing with angry cache owners who feel their stuff has been taken without permission.

TL;DR - Go ahead and take people's caches, but don't expect Geocaching.com to facilitate your efforts

But - isn't that "the textbook definition of stealing?"

(I actually plan to do that, but I figured I'd get this thread a little riled up... )

You definitely run a risk, however small, of really ticking off a cache owner if you steal their caches. So it's up to you to weigh the risk and the potential consequences of this unsanctioned vigilante cache clean-up.

I've been around the geocaching scene in my community long enough to know there are some seemingly quiet cache owners who don't participate much anymore, but who would react very strongly to another cacher removing their cache without permission. And it ain't pretty when that happens.

I don't think there is anything wrong with being 'less than active', or even inactive. I just believe that if you're choosing to step away from it, the responsible thing to do, is to arrange for your caches to be maintained by someone else. Since Geocaching allows for adoption, etc... I don't see that as really asking too much.

Nah. I think people are free to do whatever they want with their cache. If a cache goes missing, and the CO wants to replace it six months later, there shouldn't be any issues with that.

How is that not an issue? So for six months of it being reported as missing, people should just waste their time? No a cache owner shouldn't go out after 1 or 2 DNFs. After 3-4, they should probably, at the very least, open a dialog with one of the most recent cachers to report it, and see if they can establish that it is actually missing.

If there are people looking for a cache that has six months worth of DNFs, I'd be concerned with their geocaching skills. One way that I play the game is like this: I have a planned route and I click on each cache prior to leaving the house and look at the logs to make sure it's been recently found. Or when I just head out to find caches, I'll find one then before going to the next one I'll click on it and read the activity logs. That way I'm not running into the problem of getting to the cache, THEN reading the logs and finding out there's been no finds in the last two months.

4.6k · May 11, 2017

If there are people looking for a cache that has six months worth of DNFs, I'd be concerned with their geocaching skills. One way that I play the game is like this: I have a planned route and I click on each cache prior to leaving the house and look at the logs to make sure it's been recently found. Or when I just head out to find caches, I'll find one then before going to the next one I'll click on it and read the activity logs. That way I'm not running into the problem of getting to the cache, THEN reading the logs and finding out there's been no finds in the last two months.

Is that a skill?

May 11, 2017

So - what should I do with the geotrash when I find it? I plan to NA it eventually, but what about what's left of the container and the moldy innerds...

Narcissa's post a couple up from yours answers your question nicely: http://forums.Ground...dpost&p=5654074

In practice, if you are reasonably certain that the cache is not listed elsewhere, you probably won't run into any trouble if you take the container and contact the original owner with information so they can get it back from you if it's important to them. You run a slight risk of really ticking someone off if you do that.

Geocaching.com won't sanction that kind of thing, however. In the past there have been efforts to coordinate geocachers to remove archived caches - someone in my area actually created a challenge cache for this - but those things got shut down. It seems Groundspeak doesn't want to be dealing with angry cache owners who feel their stuff has been taken without permission.

TL;DR - Go ahead and take people's caches, but don't expect Geocaching.com to facilitate your efforts

But - isn't that "the textbook definition of stealing?"

(I actually plan to do that, but I figured I'd get this thread a little riled up... )

You definitely run a risk, however small, of really ticking off a cache owner if you steal their caches. So it's up to you to weigh the risk and the potential consequences of this unsanctioned vigilante cache clean-up.

I've been around the geocaching scene in my community long enough to know there are some seemingly quiet cache owners who don't participate much anymore, but who would react very strongly to another cacher removing their cache without permission. And it ain't pretty when that happens.

I don't think there is anything wrong with being 'less than active', or even inactive. I just believe that if you're choosing to step away from it, the responsible thing to do, is to arrange for your caches to be maintained by someone else. Since Geocaching allows for adoption, etc... I don't see that as really asking too much.

Nah. I think people are free to do whatever they want with their cache. If a cache goes missing, and the CO wants to replace it six months later, there shouldn't be any issues with that.

How is that not an issue? So for six months of it being reported as missing, people should just waste their time? No a cache owner shouldn't go out after 1 or 2 DNFs. After 3-4, they should probably, at the very least, open a dialog with one of the most recent cachers to report it, and see if they can establish that it is actually missing.

If there are people looking for a cache that has six months worth of DNFs, I'd be concerned with their geocaching skills. One way that I play the game is like this: I have a planned route and I click on each cache prior to leaving the house and look at the logs to make sure it's been recently found. Or when I just head out to find caches, I'll find one then before going to the next one I'll click on it and read the activity logs. That way I'm not running into the problem of getting to the cache, THEN reading the logs and finding out there's been no finds in the last two months.

Again, viewing this as a competition, which it is not. Though I hear navicache, and terracaching are both more geared towards the competitive side. If everyone were to just avoid caches that haven't been found in a while, then ultimately this entire system falls apart. If no one looks for caches that have a few months of DNFs, eventually anything with DNFs never gets looked for. Thus, less people cache, as more and more caches go unfound in their areas. As less people cache, more caches go unmaintained, and thus missing, and the cycle continues until this website exists as nothing more than a directory for 'once monitored' trash in the woods. But hey, on the bright side, at least we'll have the exact coordinates of all that trash!

May 11, 2017

If there are people looking for a cache that has six months worth of DNFs, I'd be concerned with their geocaching skills. One way that I play the game is like this: I have a planned route and I click on each cache prior to leaving the house and look at the logs to make sure it's been recently found. Or when I just head out to find caches, I'll find one then before going to the next one I'll click on it and read the activity logs. That way I'm not running into the problem of getting to the cache, THEN reading the logs and finding out there's been no finds in the last two months.

I do check the activity before a cache run. But I don't outright skip a cache with a string of DNFs. I check d/t and the count of the dnfers. Then read the logs. Some, primarily 1/1 types with several DNFs, won't make the cut. Others, with higher d ratings, I'll read and attempt.

Again, viewing this as a competition, which it is not. Though I hear navicache, and terracaching are both more geared towards the competitive side. If everyone were to just avoid caches that haven't been found in a while, then ultimately this entire system falls apart. If no one looks for caches that have a few months of DNFs, eventually anything with DNFs never gets looked for. Thus, less people cache, as more and more caches go unfound in their areas. As less people cache, more caches go unmaintained, and thus missing, and the cycle continues until this website exists as nothing more than a directory for 'once monitored' trash in the woods. But hey, on the bright side, at least we'll have the exact coordinates of all that trash!

I'm not sure that it'll get to that level, but I don't see disqualifying a cache based solely on a string of DNFs and no other variables.

May 11, 2017

If there are people looking for a cache that has six months worth of DNFs, I'd be concerned with their geocaching skills. One way that I play the game is like this: I have a planned route and I click on each cache prior to leaving the house and look at the logs to make sure it's been recently found. Or when I just head out to find caches, I'll find one then before going to the next one I'll click on it and read the activity logs. That way I'm not running into the problem of getting to the cache, THEN reading the logs and finding out there's been no finds in the last two months.

I do check the activity before a cache run. But I don't outright skip a cache with a string of DNFs. I check d/t and the count of the dnfers. Then read the logs. Some, primarily 1/1 types with several DNFs, won't make the cut. Others, with higher d ratings, I'll read and attempt.

Again, viewing this as a competition, which it is not. Though I hear navicache, and terracaching are both more geared towards the competitive side. If everyone were to just avoid caches that haven't been found in a while, then ultimately this entire system falls apart. If no one looks for caches that have a few months of DNFs, eventually anything with DNFs never gets looked for. Thus, less people cache, as more and more caches go unfound in their areas. As less people cache, more caches go unmaintained, and thus missing, and the cycle continues until this website exists as nothing more than a directory for 'once monitored' trash in the woods. But hey, on the bright side, at least we'll have the exact coordinates of all that trash!

I'm not sure that it'll get to that level, but I don't see disqualifying a cache based solely on a string of DNFs and no other variables.

Oh I don't actually foresee it getting there, so much as believe that is the type of mentality that causes these types of things to happen...

4.1k · May 11, 2017

P.S. I'm not busy at work, so I decided to thoroughly read through the Terms of Use Agreement.

Section 3, Subsection B does indeed state:

"Individual geocaches are owned by the person(s) who physically placed the geocache. Geocache listings published through our services are owned by the person who submitted the geocache listing for publication."

However

Subsections C. and D. of the same section tell a slightly different tale...

My expertise has more to do with dead bodies than dead caches, but I read the subsections as referring to the content of their site rather than your physical container. Groundspeak can take the pictures I post and make derivative works or otherwise use them. They cannot take over the physical container or unilaterally transfer that. In other words, they are protected both ways -- I am responsible for the container I place but if they ever want to use my pictures (as they once did on their banner) or quote my cache descriptions or logs in an advertisement, they can do it.

Instagram and other sites have similar clauses that grants them an expansive right to use content. But Groundspeak could not sell your container to the highest bidder or grant someone else the rights to it. I don't see a different tale between the two sections.

I have to admit that I did not graduate from the Signal the Frog School of Law since it is not accredited in my state, but if I find broken pieces of plastic on the ground then I apply Justice Stewart's "I know it when I see it" test to determine if it is property, abandoned property, or litter. And when I am caching, I also am guided by CITO principles and write appropriate logs. I don't think it needs to be made more complicated than that.

Perhaps one day I will get the Signal SoL souvenir. I can only hope.

Edited May 11, 2017 by geodarts

May 11, 2017

P.S. I'm not busy at work, so I decided to thoroughly read through the Terms of Use Agreement.

Section 3, Subsection B does indeed state:

"Individual geocaches are owned by the person(s) who physically placed the geocache. Geocache listings published through our services are owned by the person who submitted the geocache listing for publication."

However

Subsections C. and D. of the same section tell a slightly different tale...

My expertise has more to do with dead bodies than dead caches, but I read the subsections as referring to the content of their site rather than your physical container. Groundspeak can take the pictures I post and make derivative works or otherwise use them. They cannot take over the physical container or unilaterally transfer that. In other words, they are protected both ways -- I am responsible for the container I place but if they ever want to use my pictures (as they once did on their banner) or quote my cache descriptions or logs in an advertisement, they can do it.

Instagram and other sites have similar clauses that grants them an expansive right to use content. But Groundspeak could not sell your container to the highest bidder or grant someone else the rights to it. I don't see a different tale between the two sections.

I have to admit that I did not graduate from the Signal the Frog School of Law since it is not accredited in my state, but if I find broken pieces of plastic on the ground then I apply Justice Stewart's "I know it when I see it" test to determine if it is property, abandoned property, or litter. And when I am caching, I also am guided by CITO principles and write appropriate logs. I don't think it needs to be made more complicated than that.

Perhaps one day I will get the Signal SoL souvenir. I can only hope.

Familiar name...hmm... In any case, thanks for the input.

I understand the mentality to just clean as you go... I just feel there is no reason we can't go a step further (besides CITO events).

15.3k · May 11, 2017

I understand the mentality to just clean as you go... I just feel there is no reason we can't go a step further (besides CITO events).

I'm still not completely sure what you expect your "clean out the abandoned caches" event to look like.

I'm not sure it will qualify as a CITO event because it doesn't really "improve parks and other cache-friendly places". Instead, it focuses on the caches within those "parks and other cache-friendly places", which by definition are isolated spots at least a tenth of a mile from each other, a tiny fraction of any given park or open space.

As an event cache, it would need to meet the requirements for all event caches. Others have already mentioned that an event cache "should not be set up for the purpose of gathering geocachers for a geocache search", but there are others. And there are guidelines that apply to all listings, like the no solicitation guidelines, which apply to most agendas of any kind, and not just advertising for commercial entities.

Personally, I think it might be more effective to host an event with more of a Geocaching 101 (or Geocaching 102) feel to it, and to encourage use of the current NM/NA log system. But maybe you can come up with some way of "going further" that doesn't violate the guidelines or aggravate the local geocaching community.

May 11, 2017

I understand the mentality to just clean as you go... I just feel there is no reason we can't go a step further (besides CITO events).
I'm still not completely sure what you expect your "clean out the abandoned caches" event to look like.

I'm not sure it will qualify as a CITO event because it doesn't really "improve parks and other cache-friendly places". Instead, it focuses on the caches within those "parks and other cache-friendly places", which by definition are isolated spots at least a tenth of a mile from each other, a tiny fraction of any given park or open space.

As an event cache, it would need to meet the requirements for all event caches. Others have already mentioned that an event cache "should not be set up for the purpose of gathering geocachers for a geocache search", but there are others. And there are guidelines that apply to all listings, like the no solicitation guidelines, which apply to most agendas of any kind, and not just advertising for commercial entities.

Personally, I think it might be more effective to host an event with more of a Geocaching 101 (or Geocaching 102) feel to it, and to encourage use of the current NM/NA log system. But maybe you can come up with some way of "going further" that doesn't violate the guidelines or aggravate the local geocaching community.

Thank you for a useful contribution!

Ultimately, I suppose the point of the event would be to get folks together, discuss/locate (not physically, but on the site) caches within the parameters (which, is up in the air) and decide among the group who (if anyone) would want to adopt (or, in the case that the CO is unreachable, place a new cache in it's place after archival). And for the caches that were not 'adopted', the group would organize from there to set out within a period of time and search for those caches (not necessarily together, nor as part of the event). From there, the process of archival/adoption/replacement could be sped up, as the people attending would be reporting NAs.

Again, i'm just spitballing here. I'm sure there are plenty of other ideas for this that could improve upon what I've thought of.

15.3k · May 11, 2017

Ultimately, I suppose the point of the event would be to get folks together, discuss/locate (not physically, but on the site) caches within the parameters (which, is up in the air) and decide among the group who (if anyone) would want to adopt (or, in the case that the CO is unreachable, place a new cache in it's place after archival). And for the caches that were not 'adopted', the group would organize from there to set out within a period of time and search for those caches (not necessarily together, nor as part of the event). From there, the process of archival/adoption/replacement could be sped up, as the people attending would be reporting NAs.

Keep in mind that event activities are completely optional. If people attending the event just want to show up, socialize, and leave, then that's okay. Signing the event log isn't even required.

May 11, 2017

Personally, I think it might be more effective to host an event with more of a Geocaching 101 (or Geocaching 102) feel to it, and to encourage use of the current NM/NA log system. But maybe you can come up with some way of "going further" that doesn't violate the guidelines or aggravate the local geocaching community.

Darin - great suggestion. Host an event and tactfully go over Geo 101 - you can even use the new logging fiasco (ok - system) as the catalyst...

15.3k · May 12, 2017

Darin - great suggestion.

Actually, cerberus1 posted the idea much earlier in this thread.

May 12, 2017

If there are people looking for a cache that has six months worth of DNFs, I'd be concerned with their geocaching skills. One way that I play the game is like this: I have a planned route and I click on each cache prior to leaving the house and look at the logs to make sure it's been recently found. Or when I just head out to find caches, I'll find one then before going to the next one I'll click on it and read the activity logs. That way I'm not running into the problem of getting to the cache, THEN reading the logs and finding out there's been no finds in the last two months.

Is that a skill?

No. It's a way of life. You don't choose to Geocache. Geocaching chooses you.

May 12, 2017

I'm pretty sure you choose to geocache. Considering the number of choices it takes just to get to a single cache alone...

7.4k · May 12, 2017

Ultimately, I suppose the point of the event would be to get folks together, discuss/locate (not physically, but on the site) caches within the parameters (which, is up in the air) and decide among the group who (if anyone) would want to adopt (or, in the case that the CO is unreachable, place a new cache in it's place after archival). And for the caches that were not 'adopted', the group would organize from there to set out within a period of time and search for those caches (not necessarily together, nor as part of the event). From there, the process of archival/adoption/replacement could be sped up, as the people attending would be reporting NAs.
Keep in mind that event activities are completely optional. If people attending the event just want to show up, socialize, and leave, then that's okay. Signing the event log isn't even required.

And if people want to use the information from this meeting go and set up placeholder cache listings in all the spots that are about to open up when all these NAs get filed, there's nothing to stop them from doing that against the decisions of the people who attend this event.

Honestly though, I can't see this passing muster as an event with a reviewer unless the listing was really vague and/or dishonest. If something like this happened in the geocaching community where I live, it would almost certainly be outed to a reviewer before it got off the ground.

May 12, 2017

Ultimately, I suppose the point of the event would be to get folks together, discuss/locate (not physically, but on the site) caches within the parameters (which, is up in the air) and decide among the group who (if anyone) would want to adopt (or, in the case that the CO is unreachable, place a new cache in it's place after archival). And for the caches that were not 'adopted', the group would organize from there to set out within a period of time and search for those caches (not necessarily together, nor as part of the event). From there, the process of archival/adoption/replacement could be sped up, as the people attending would be reporting NAs.
Keep in mind that event activities are completely optional. If people attending the event just want to show up, socialize, and leave, then that's okay. Signing the event log isn't even required.

And if people want to use the information from this meeting go and set up placeholder cache listings in all the spots that are about to open up when all these NAs get filed, there's nothing to stop them from doing that against the decisions of the people who attend this event.

Honestly though, I can't see this passing muster as an event with a reviewer unless the listing was really vague and/or dishonest. If something like this happened in the geocaching community where I live, it would almost certainly be outed to a reviewer before it got off the ground.

What if all those spots are taken by COs that, in a few years lose interest in the game. Then another event will have to be held to round up all those junky, broken down caches and the cycle just continues.

15.3k · May 12, 2017

What if all those spots are taken by COs that, in a few years lose interest in the game. Then another event will have to be held to round up all those junky, broken down caches and the cycle just continues.

Turn, turn, turn...

4.6k · May 12, 2017

If there are people looking for a cache that has six months worth of DNFs, I'd be concerned with their geocaching skills. One way that I play the game is like this: I have a planned route and I click on each cache prior to leaving the house and look at the logs to make sure it's been recently found. Or when I just head out to find caches, I'll find one then before going to the next one I'll click on it and read the activity logs. That way I'm not running into the problem of getting to the cache, THEN reading the logs and finding out there's been no finds in the last two months.

Is that a skill?

No. It's a way of life. You don't choose to Geocache. Geocaching chooses you.

Putting that thought provoking commment to one side...

My linkhttp://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=311306&view=findpost&p=5653652

What irks me.

Lets see. Trying to find a geocache and not being able to find it three or four times, and then asking CO for a hint and getting no response.

Should we be concerned for your geocaching skills? <_<

May 12, 2017

Putting that thought provoking commment to one side...

My link http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=311306&view=findpost&p=5653652

What irks me.

Lets see. Trying to find a geocache and not being able to find it three or four times, and then asking CO for a hint and getting no response.

Should we be concerned for your geocaching skills?

May 12, 2017

If there are people looking for a cache that has six months worth of DNFs, I'd be concerned with their geocaching skills. One way that I play the game is like this: I have a planned route and I click on each cache prior to leaving the house and look at the logs to make sure it's been recently found. Or when I just head out to find caches, I'll find one then before going to the next one I'll click on it and read the activity logs. That way I'm not running into the problem of getting to the cache, THEN reading the logs and finding out there's been no finds in the last two months.

Is that a skill?

No. It's a way of life. You don't choose to Geocache. Geocaching chooses you.

Putting that thought provoking commment to one side...

My linkhttp://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=311306&view=findpost&p=5653652

What irks me.

Lets see. Trying to find a geocache and not being able to find it three or four times, and then asking CO for a hint and getting no response.

Should we be concerned for your geocaching skills?

That happened one time. And I was irked.

May 12, 2017

If there are people looking for a cache that has six months worth of DNFs, I'd be concerned with their geocaching skills. One way that I play the game is like this: I have a planned route and I click on each cache prior to leaving the house and look at the logs to make sure it's been recently found. Or when I just head out to find caches, I'll find one then before going to the next one I'll click on it and read the activity logs. That way I'm not running into the problem of getting to the cache, THEN reading the logs and finding out there's been no finds in the last two months.

Is that a skill?

No. It's a way of life. You don't choose to Geocache. Geocaching chooses you.

Putting that thought provoking commment to one side...

My linkhttp://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=311306&view=findpost&p=5653652

What irks me.

Lets see. Trying to find a geocache and not being able to find it three or four times, and then asking CO for a hint and getting no response.

Should we be concerned for your geocaching skills?

That happened one time. And I was irked.

Hence the need for abandoned, or un-maintained caches to be removed.

May 12, 2017

If there are people looking for a cache that has six months worth of DNFs, I'd be concerned with their geocaching skills. One way that I play the game is like this: I have a planned route and I click on each cache prior to leaving the house and look at the logs to make sure it's been recently found. Or when I just head out to find caches, I'll find one then before going to the next one I'll click on it and read the activity logs. That way I'm not running into the problem of getting to the cache, THEN reading the logs and finding out there's been no finds in the last two months.

Is that a skill?

No. It's a way of life. You don't choose to Geocache. Geocaching chooses you.

Putting that thought provoking commment to one side...

My linkhttp://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=311306&view=findpost&p=5653652

What irks me.

Lets see. Trying to find a geocache and not being able to find it three or four times, and then asking CO for a hint and getting no response.

Should we be concerned for your geocaching skills?

That happened one time. And I was irked.

Hence the need for abandoned, or un-maintained caches to be removed.

The cache wasn't abandoned, or un-maintained. It was a fake rock under some dense bushes in a high muggle area.

May 12, 2017

P.S. I found a cache today where the owner hasn't logged in for 5+ years... the cache is in dire need of maintenance, but it was a great find, and I'd happily adopt it, and take over maintenance. I reported the NM, as have several others in recent months...

So did you try to contact the owner to see if they might respond? Sometimes if they are not able to maintain cache they will agree to let you adopt it. You never know.

May 12, 2017

P.S. I found a cache today where the owner hasn't logged in for 5+ years... the cache is in dire need of maintenance, but it was a great find, and I'd happily adopt it, and take over maintenance. I reported the NM, as have several others in recent months...

So did you try to contact the owner to see if they might respond? Sometimes if they are not able to maintain cache they will agree to let you adopt it. You never know.

Of the few that I've NAd - I've emailed and PMd the owner before NAing. None had responded to either method of communication.

It would be nice if there was a way to adopt a cache without the CO's response, but that topic has been beaten to death...

Abandoned Cache Adoption Events

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