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Release Notes (Website only) - April 27, 2017

203 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

Today I encountered another limitation of this new logging 'experience'. I logged my find but missed the opportunity to click 'Report a problem'. After I saved the log I can't now go back and log a Needs Maintenance. I suppose I could have logged a note and reported the problem there, but why? It doesn't need a note, or a new log. It just needs what it's always had - a Needs Maintenance log option.

 

I opted out and went back to the old logging page.

 

If (when) the opt-out option is removed it's going to be a real pain to log proper NM or NA logs. Two or three canned messages don't come close to covering the multitude of issues that can befall a cache in the wild.

 

Oh - and I really REALLY need an option to add a caption to a photograph without having to fight my way around to do it. Another -1 for the new logging page.

Edited by gasbottle
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When I look at it in great detail, so for me:

 

+ The new look does not come bad, I can get used to it (to put some more +)

+ TB / GC - in the old one you have to click on each and select from the list; for the new one you just have to expand the list and then just click it is probably faster.

+ Adding photos

+ Blocking double FI logs

- Photo can be add only without a description

- I can Add only one photo (another I must add by old system)

- No formatting

- There is no preview of log with formatting, but it is unnecessary without formatting. While formatting is working, it's a question of whether this is the forerunner of a complete cancellation of log formatting.

- For old logging, it was much better to see links to the author and the name of the cache (+ clearly see the type of cache). Now I don't see, there are links!

- There is no option to encrypt the log

- Editing the log goes into the old look (even with the formatting of the logs - quite odd)

- THE BIGGEST problem I see for myself as the owner of several caches to change the concept of NM and NA logs linked to FI logos, as I have already written here. The NM and the NA log itself do not solve anything, everything is in the "original" FI log, where the original writer does not even have to say anything about it because he thinks he just wrote the NM flag. And then there are problems with monitoring NM and NA logs that can not be written separately, etc. If I have watchlist only on NM or NA logs, now I must go to the web and find FI / WN log, which may be with another date. It's lost of time for me and bigger server load. More in the topic: http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=344094&st=50

- New system is SLOWER 

 

+ - It has not changed: The option to add to favorites was already in the original logging - so here improvements in graphics only.

 

Excuse me for my bad English.

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Find when you revisit a cache is frowned upon, and is viewed as a lame attempt to pad your find count.

But you just gave a great example where it was perfectly logical to log a second find, and it had nothing to do with padding a find count. Besides, why should GS give a fig about people padding their find count in this way? There are far easier ways for people to pad their find counts which aren't so blatantly obvious. It makes no sense to me to worry about this one in particular.

 

Logging a DNF when you revisit a cache is entertaining, and is viewed as amusing since many people think you should be able to find a cache that you've found before.

Logging a find when you revisit a cache can be equally entertaining. And it's particularly entertaining when you're the owner (although I suppose that's a different topic).

 

The same goes for logging a DNF when you visit your own cache.

A very logical point! Too bad that's also something is no longer allowed.

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What would be a better solution, is to allow multiple logs of any type, but only count one 'Found it' per cache. After all, you can search for a cache more than once..... if you want to.....

niraD and I are talking about logs entered for unusual reasons such as humor, and not counting such finds makes a little sense, but is vanishingly unimportant. But the bigger problem with not allowing multiple finds are for those caches where you can uniquely find the cache multiple times, and it that case all the finds should be counted. So your suggestion continues to prevent those caches.

 

On the other hand, allowing a second find but not counting it turns out to not accomplish the main goals of the prohibition. The main reason for not allowing multiple finds, at least as far as I can see, is to fix a bug in the API which generates duplicate find logs. Not allowed multiple finds allows the API to block the duplicates when the bug tries to create them. And a second purpose is to keep anyone from getting confused and inadvertently logging the same cache twice. So allowing the find undoes the main reasons for the change whether you count those finds or not.

 

In the end, allowing multiple logs but not counting them reduces the entire feature to a single purpose: preventing find log padding. I claim there's no merit to worrying about that. I'm a little skeptical that anyone has ever tried to pad their numbers that way since it seems easier and less obvious to pad your numbers by just logging a bunch of caches you haven't found just a single time each. And if anyone has ever seen such padding, it can only be because the person was caught and, surely, GS would delete all the finds and likely block the account. So by allowing multiple finds but not counting them, we'd be adding a feature in order to stop something that never happens, can be detected and corrected if it does happen, and really doesn't hurt anyone, anyway.

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Logging of Need Maintenance and Needs archive is strange, old system of logging this type of log was better. Now owner can´t read problem in this NA or NM log and must look for it in FI log.

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Newbie cachers may not realize that they need to go back and update logs. So we'll probably see a bunch of undetailed NMs and NAs...

It's much worse than that: it's not a case of newbies not realizing they need to track down and update the NM logs: it's GS telling them that this one click is all it takes to report a problem, as if there's no such thing as an NM log. I'm wondering if the goal isn't to eventually get rid of NM logs altogether.

Exactly! And the worrying thing is it can't be an oversight.

It was deliberately decided that reporting the need for maintenance does not deserve some additional text.

 

But I think it potentially could lead to an improved and streamlined workflow as long as it is clearly communicated that the one and only text box should not only be used to describe the Found/DNF/Note but also compulsory the reasons why an additional "maintenance need" was ticked.

But to have a separate NM log with a boiler plate text as the only information about a problem is inadmissible.

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Thank you so much for listening to your customers' feedback ! The new page looks awesome now that the tooltip "Upload a photo" has been updated. It's almost perfect now. That was well a release note worth ! Now I just miss the page footer, like on any other page of the website, so that I can change the page's language or apply to a job...

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Posted (edited)

But I think it potentially could lead to an improved and streamlined workflow as long as it is clearly communicated that the one and only text box should not only be used to describe the Found/DNF/Note but also compulsory the reasons why an additional "maintenance need" was ticked.

But to have a separate NM log with a boiler plate text as the only information about a problem is inadmissible.

Exactly. IF they were to continue along this concept, then reporting maintenance should not be relegated to a mere flag. There needs to be indication of where details for the flag can be added - not just canned responses (without the ability to add more detail) - whether that be indicating the main log should contain the reason (which can lead to having to comb through many paragraphs of visit-related experience for the issue, not very optimal) or a separate entry field to provide greater detail about the issue (which could be pre-populated with the canned text, even).

 

Logging a NM separately should still be possible, however. But allowing a visit log (find/dnf/etc) as well as flagging the NM and its details in the same workflow is indeed a more streamlined process I would say.

Edited by thebruce0
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Thank you so much for listening to your customers' feedback ! The new page looks awesome now that the tooltip "Upload a photo" has been updated. It's almost perfect now. That was well a release note worth ! Now I just miss the page footer, like on any other page of the website, so that I can change the page's language or apply to a job...

It seems as though they aren't listening to their customers' feedback at all..

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(moved this post from another thread)

 

I think having a streamlined process for reporting issues so users don't have to post an additional log is a good thing. I've seen many people post in the forums confused asking "How come when I posted my needs maintenance note my find count doesn't go up?" Those of course are always new players not understanding the logging process. Most others have learned that there is no automatic log of a find when you post a needs archived or needs maintenance note (as it should be!)

 

As an experienced cacher, I would like this streamlined process as well with a minor tweak or two. It would be nice to post my find or DNF with my usual description (which has been minimal lately), and separately report any issues, and do this with a single log action.

 

Something like the following would be nice. When I select the "needs maint" link, I get prompted for a maint type, the link changes text to match what I selected, and a new text box appears where I can list out the problem with the cache.

 

This now gives HQ what I think they are looking for with the single user action, and it separates out the activities into separate logs making it easier for cachers (players, owners, reviewers) to see issues.

 

7D9PDDA.png

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Thank you so much for listening to your customers' feedback ! The new page looks awesome now that the tooltip "Upload a photo" has been updated. It's almost perfect now. That was well a release note worth ! Now I just miss the page footer, like on any other page of the website, so that I can change the page's language or apply to a job...

It seems as though they aren't listening to their customers' feedback at all..

As much as that's a popular opinion currently, it's simply not true.

It may feel like it based on the intensity of desire to see certain changes and updates, but GS most certainly has listened to many comments and criticisms. Maybe not necessarily what many want to be heard more, but it's not fair nor beneficial to make blanket exaggerated criticisms. Be fair, for the sake of all of us and our hopes for reasonable discourse and their addressing of our concerns ;)

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A further look at trackables -

This is pretty, but useless unless I have only a few and want them to repeatedly visit caches.

 

I've got several and I search for the TRACKABLE NUMBER to find which one it is so I can log the drop - I'm not interested in the NAME of the item, I probably don't even know the NAME of the item, it's not usually on any TRACKABLE.

 

The old screen was far better for finding one or two in a long list. Keep the old format and add sort to the tracking number. I do not log by phone and when I'm sitting at my screen after a busy week I don't want STYLE, I want FUNCTION. The user experience is about UTILITY and nothing else.

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Thank you so much for listening to your customers' feedback ! The new page looks awesome now that the tooltip "Upload a photo" has been updated. It's almost perfect now. That was well a release note worth ! Now I just miss the page footer, like on any other page of the website, so that I can change the page's language or apply to a job...

It seems as though they aren't listening to their customers' feedback at all..

As much as that's a popular opinion currently, it's simply not true.

It may feel like it based on the intensity of desire to see certain changes and updates, but GS most certainly has listened to many comments and criticisms. Maybe not necessarily what many want to be heard more, but it's not fair nor beneficial to make blanket exaggerated criticisms. Be fair, for the sake of all of us and our hopes for reasonable discourse and their addressing of our concerns ;)

I certainly hope that is true. I know they are putting a lot of effort into updating their app and website, but it always seems that they implement a new feature and ask for feedback and then when people provide said feedback they don't take it into account. Much like the many features that are still missing from their app and now the many features missing from this logging experience.

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Posted (edited)

Most others have learned that there is no automatic log of a find when you post a needs archived or needs maintenance note (as it should be!)

No, why this should be? In many situations one would log NM or NA because the cache is lost / destroyed etc. so could NOT be found.

Edited by hcy
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Most others have learned that there is no automatic log of a find when you post a needs archived or needs maintenance note (as it should be!)

No, why this should be? In many situations why one would log NM or NA the cache is lost / destroyed etc. so could NOT be found.

Most instances I log a Needs Maintenance the cache is there, but in poor condition - It's Spring! Spring follows Winter, in Winter we get rains (and boy, did we get rains) so there's a lot of wet, cruddy caches out there which need maintenance, but are still quite present. I'm certain as the snow clears people in northerly climes will find the ice or snow did similar things.

 

In the desert caches made of plastic become brittle and crack, crumble and disintegrate - the contents and partial container may still be present, so there is in effect a Find, but it is very much in need of maintenance.

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I've seen many people post in the forums confused asking "How come when I posted my needs maintenance note my find count doesn't go up?"

I'm not convinced there won't be as many questions by other people that misunderstand the new approach in different ways. Personally, I always thought this question provided a good opportunity to help newbies see the difference between reporting a problem to the CO and describing the experience to anyone listening.

 

As an experienced cacher, I would like this streamlined process as well with a minor tweak or two. It would be nice to post my find or DNF with my usual description (which has been minimal lately), and separately report any issues, and do this with a single log action.

My problem is that this doesn't look anything like a single log action to me. It looks like two independent log actions mushed up into a single form that's now twice as complicated. It streamlines the rarely used process of reporting a problem by adding complexity to the much more common process of logging a cache. Well, actually it doesn't really streamline the process of reporting a problem, either: in your form, the actions required to report a problem -- click on needs maintenance, pick from the pull down, enter the description -- is exactly as much work as entering it as a separate log would be.

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Thank you so much for listening to your customers' feedback ! The new page looks awesome now that the tooltip "Upload a photo" has been updated. It's almost perfect now. That was well a release note worth ! Now I just miss the page footer, like on any other page of the website, so that I can change the page's language or apply to a job...

It seems as though they aren't listening to their customers' feedback at all..

As much as that's a popular opinion currently, it's simply not true.

It may feel like it based on the intensity of desire to see certain changes and updates, but GS most certainly has listened to many comments and criticisms. Maybe not necessarily what many want to be heard more, but it's not fair nor beneficial to make blanket exaggerated criticisms. Be fair, for the sake of all of us and our hopes for reasonable discourse and their addressing of our concerns ;)

If they are listening, they must surely have seen the many requests for clarification on whether the removed functionality (multiple photos, captions, informative NM/NA logs, encryption, etc.) is intentional or just hasn't been implemented yet. Keeping us in suspense like this on matters fundamental to our ongoing enjoyment of the game is cruel.

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Thank you so much for listening to your customers' feedback ! The new page looks awesome now that the tooltip "Upload a photo" has been updated. It's almost perfect now. That was well a release note worth ! Now I just miss the page footer, like on any other page of the website, so that I can change the page's language or apply to a job...

It seems as though they aren't listening to their customers' feedback at all..

As much as that's a popular opinion currently, it's simply not true.

It may feel like it based on the intensity of desire to see certain changes and updates, but GS most certainly has listened to many comments and criticisms. Maybe not necessarily what many want to be heard more, but it's not fair nor beneficial to make blanket exaggerated criticisms. Be fair, for the sake of all of us and our hopes for reasonable discourse and their addressing of our concerns ;)

If they are listening, they must surely have seen the many requests for clarification on whether the removed functionality (multiple photos, captions, informative NM/NA logs, encryption, etc.) is intentional or just hasn't been implemented yet. Keeping us in suspense like this on matters fundamental to our ongoing enjoyment of the game is cruel.

 

I don't know if I'd use the word "cruel", but it is certainly an awful way to handle Customer Service.

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After just logging in on my laptop to log my caches from the past few days, I was surprised to see the new way of logging them. Not too bad at first glance, but I have some questions:

1. if you want to do a Needs Maintenance, when not logging a find, or after you have logged your find and forgetting to do it, where do you go to do this? I tried doing a note and it only gives me the selection of needs archiving. What if the cache needs a new container because the other one is broken, where do I go?

2. what if I want to add more than one photo to my log?

3. how do I do a update coordinates?

4. where is the formatting for emojis other than going to the Help Center? It should be on the logging page.

5. how do I opt out of the new format?

 

I look forward to the answers so I can continue logging my finds.

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5. how do I opt out of the new format?

 

Click the "Opt out" link right above the log text box. -> opt out

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After just logging in on my laptop to log my caches from the past few days, I was surprised to see the new way of logging them. Not too bad at first glance, but I have some questions:

1. if you want to do a Needs Maintenance, when not logging a find, or after you have logged your find and forgetting to do it, where do you go to do this? I tried doing a note and it only gives me the selection of needs archiving. What if the cache needs a new container because the other one is broken, where do I go?

2. what if I want to add more than one photo to my log?

3. how do I do a update coordinates?

4. where is the formatting for emojis other than going to the Help Center? It should be on the logging page.

5. how do I opt out of the new format?

 

I look forward to the answers so I can continue logging my finds.

It would appear the answer to 1..4 is "you can't". For 5, you can opt out for now but only until the old logging page is removed.

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Most others have learned that there is no automatic log of a find when you post a needs archived or needs maintenance note (as it should be!)

No, why this should be? In many situations why one would log NM or NA the cache is lost / destroyed etc. so could NOT be found.

Most instances I log a Needs Maintenance the cache is there, but in poor condition

Yes most instances, but not all. The logging page must cover all situations (as it did before).

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I don't play enough to noticed anything negatives. But I found a cache the other day and logged it right away.

 

So far, so good.

 

I really wonder if some people dont have better things to do. It's almost like the geocaching is their only life. :ph34r:

 

Be happy and find a cache and log the find.

 

If you arent happy with GS, go find a new hobby. :blink:

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I don't play enough to noticed anything negatives. But I found a cache the other day and logged it right away.

 

So far, so good.

 

I really wonder if some people dont have better things to do. It's almost like the geocaching is their only life. :ph34r:

 

Be happy and find a cache and log the find.

 

If you arent happy with GS, go find a new hobby. :blink:

 

Fishing? <_<

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I don't play enough to noticed anything negatives. But I found a cache the other day and logged it right away.

 

So far, so good.

 

I really wonder if some people dont have better things to do. It's almost like the geocaching is their only life. :ph34r:

 

Be happy and find a cache and log the find.

 

If you arent happy with GS, go find a new hobby. :blink:

 

Well, you wrote it yourself, you don't play enough to see the negatives. Until you eventually encounter them... The mere fact you don't see problems does'nt mean there aren't, no ?

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If you arent happy with GS, go find a new hobby. :blink:

The correct statement must be: if you arent happy with GS, go find a new Geocaching platform. Groundspeak is not Geocaching.

 

But this is not what must of us want. We just want to be heard be GS and we want GS to let us the functions we need and we are used to use.

It's better if they just do nothing than make things worse.

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This new format might just turn cachers off of geocaching altogether if they can't do things like adding more photos and not being able to suggest new coordinates. What else is out there to log caches on a computer?

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If you arent happy with GS, go find a new hobby. :blink:

I'm very happy with GS, I just think they're making some mistakes, so I want to make sure they understand what makes me say that.

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I don't know if I'd use the word "cruel", but it is certainly an awful way to handle Customer Service.

 

Probably. A little out of context but the basic theme remains relevant:

 

You deserve better and we’ll do our best to provide clear information more proactively in the future.

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If you arent happy with GS, go find a new hobby.

 

I am very unhappy with Groundspeak. I never thought it would come to that. But the good thing is that Groundspeak is NOT geocaching. If I leave, it will be on my terms. You have no say, and your "advice" is not appreciated.

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Posted (edited)

I did some caching today, recording two DNFs and two finds using the new logging page. I resisted the temptation to either opt out of it or to go back and edit my logs afterwards, as the log edit function still uses the old-style page which will presumably be replaced or removed when the old log entry page is retired.

 

For the DNFs, I wasn't sure whether I was looking in the right place as there was lots of evidence of muggle presence and, in one case, signs of a landslip. I took several photos at each location, which might have helped the CO determine whether or not he might need to check it out, but of course I was only able to upload one photo with each log.

 

On one of the finds, the cache had an issue which several previous finders had mentioned, so I decided to add an NM to it. Again it would've been helpful to the CO if I'd been able to attach photos to the NM log, but that isn't allowed, and since it wasn't a "full logbook" or what I'd really consider a "damaged container", I selected "other" so the NM just says that I reported a problem with the cache. I did my best to describe the situation as part of my find log, but I still think it would've been better to separate the find from the problem.

 

At the end of the day this new logging method left me feeling I couldn't really do justice to any of my logs. I suppose I'll eventually get used to it and bumble on, but it's taken something from the game that'll be hard to replace.

Edited by barefootjeff
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Posted (edited)

At the end of the day this new logging method left me feeling I couldn't really do justice to any of my logs. I suppose I'll eventually get used to it and bumble on, but it's taken something from the game that'll be hard to replace.

 

This entire thread and your last paragraph communicate the failure.

 

No new feature was added

Nice to have features were removed.

User experience/interface isn't intuitive

Most importantly, critical communication was made vague or eliminated.

 

I'm amazed it was even launched in the state it is in but more shocked it's still running on the site. Take it down, get it right, beta test the replacement, incorporate customer feedback, retest and then launch.

 

Edit: these forums don't handle iPad CR/LFs well

Edited by Team DEMP
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Looks like more than a week later, obstination and silence have done their effect. People finally stopped complaining as it's just useless.

Like all the previous (buggy) releases, this one will be imposed to us without further notice. Like it or not. Who cares ?

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Looks like more than a week later, obstination and silence have done their effect. People finally stopped complaining as it's just useless.

Like all the previous (buggy) releases, this one will be imposed to us without further notice. Like it or not. Who cares ?

I care just lost the will to live I am afraid. We cache despite the owners who seem to care little about long standing members.

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Looks like more than a week later, obstination and silence have done their effect. People finally stopped complaining as it's just useless.

Like all the previous (buggy) releases, this one will be imposed to us without further notice. Like it or not. Who cares ?

 

Let's wait and see. It's only been about a week, and I wouldn't expect any sort of daily or even weekly releases.

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I saw last night that the feedback option has returned, in a new form. In the lower-right corner an option will pop up to rate the logging experience on a scale of 1 to 10. After picking a number, the option to enter written feedback is provided.

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Looks like more than a week later, obstination and silence have done their effect. People finally stopped complaining as it's just useless.

Like all the previous (buggy) releases, this one will be imposed to us without further notice. Like it or not. Who cares ?

 

Let's wait and see. It's only been about a week, and I wouldn't expect any sort of daily or even weekly releases.

 

I'm not hoping for more releases. I'm hoping for it to be pulled down.

 

It has become clear that this is Beta testing. And we didn't sign up to be beta testers.

 

The original page should be reverted to being the default, and move this version into a test area, where it won't cause anymore frustration for the users who never chose to be part of this failing experiment.

 

Then the Devs can continue to bang on it if they choose, until it actually manages to work they way users want it to. But it seems pretty obvious that the smarter thing to do is to step back to the beginning and ask themselves "Why do we still think this is a Good Thing to do when our community clearly disagrees?"

 

Answer that question first, then share your answer with the community.

 

Then start over.

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You have taken away the markdown formatting tools and the log preview. I'm really not sure how this even makes sense. We now have to manually enter the markdown formatting tags and hope we didn't make a mistake because there is no preview.

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It occurs to me that when there are things that you can do on the website that you can't do in the app, then the user community complains, expecting to get that functionality in the app.

 

But, there is another, easier approach to that problem, and I hope that's not what's being slowly done here.

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Looks like more than a week later, obstination and silence have done their effect. People finally stopped complaining as it's just useless.

Like all the previous (buggy) releases, this one will be imposed to us without further notice. Like it or not. Who cares ?

 

Let's wait and see. It's only been about a week, and I wouldn't expect any sort of daily or even weekly releases.

 

I'm not hoping for more releases. I'm hoping for it to be pulled down.

 

It has become clear that this is Beta testing. And we didn't sign up to be beta testers.

 

The original page should be reverted to being the default, and move this version into a test area, where it won't cause anymore frustration for the users who never chose to be part of this failing experiment.

 

Then the Devs can continue to bang on it if they choose, until it actually manages to work they way users want it to. But it seems pretty obvious that the smarter thing to do is to step back to the beginning and ask themselves "Why do we still think this is a Good Thing to do when our community clearly disagrees?"

 

Answer that question first, then share your answer with the community.

 

Then start over.

This is not even beta testing, just alpha really. Who were the product owners may I ask who decided that removing functionality was really a good idea.They seem very out of touch if that is the case, and if done with eyes open then the long term plan must be to dumb down everything. Time to back it all out and start again.

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Makes no sense to me to provide a phone friendly view of a web page for logging, drafts, or the cache page when you have an app that would provide all the same features. There's no harm in creating a responsive/mobile friendly web site, but it would be priority #12,643 if you have an app. Make the app robust and make the website robust for non-app devices (aka desktop).

+1

IMO, if someone wants to log caches on their phone, then use the app. The photo, fave, NM/NA options, and Drafts were built into the app. Why does the logging experience on the geocaching.com website need to be tailored to phone users? Those of us who choose to log via the website are probably doing so because we don't want to use our phones, so why can't we use a logging page that fits a laptop/desktop environment?

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[*] Removing 'Needs Archived' as a separate log type. It's more like a subset of 'Needs Maintenance' now. NM and NA have been separate log types on the website and are separate log types in the app, under 'Report a Problem'. To be consistent, I'd suggest changing the "! Needs maintenance" label on the new logging page to read "! Report a Problem", which then pops up the window with maintenance and archive options. EDIT AFTER READING BLOG ARTICLE: The Blog article says "Simply, select the “Report a Problem” icon while logging the cache, choose the problem (ie wet logbook), and continue composing your log as normal." - so it indeed seems that the "! Needs maintenance" label needs editing to read "! Report a Problem" instead.

Wow, just wow!

Instead of changing the website's new logging page's "! Needs maintenance" label to read "! Report a Problem" - GS updated the instructions in the Blog post. The Blog post now says "Simply, select the “Needs maintenance” icon while logging the cache, choose the problem (ie. Logbook is full), and continue composing your log as normal."

 

Am I the only one that thinks it is confusing to see a "! Needs Maintenance" label underneath every log entry text box? It looks like an alert, telling me that the cache needs maintenance. It's not clear that it's an option to be selected. If GS insists on this new logging page, then please change this to read "Report a Problem" so it's clear that it's an actionable item and not an alert.

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Regarding the new logging process:

 

I just learned today that the reason you folks at HQ think it is so nifty is that it makes posting a picture easier ... particularly, I gather, from Drafts. You made it easier by making it so that the photo doesn't have a caption or other information attached. Not useful to my way of thinking. I did learn that I could go to the log on the cache listing page and edit the image details. Why is it considered useful to make it a two-unrelated-steps process just because we use Field Notes?

 

Once again, it does not feel like the folks at HQ making the changes are folks that actually use the site while geocaching. I'm sure you'll say you do go caching but it sure doesn't feel like it.

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I needed to post a few NMs yesterday, so I used the new logging page for a couple to see how it actually worked, and I discovered that there's no longer the "Are you sure you want to file an NM?" question.

 

When I first saw how they changed problem reporting to a checkbox, I thought they were overlooking the advantage of filing an explicit NM which turns the logger's attention toward the CO, but now I'm starting to think that the whole idea of changing the NM approach is to keep the logger from thinking about the CO at all, presumably motivated by the old canard that cache owners are meanies and get angry at anyone who suggests that anything could be wrong with their caches.

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I have just seen a cache where someone posted a Find followed by DNF saying sorry I clicked the wrong option first time. Maybe they assumed that the DNF would supersede the find? I reckon the new logging system makes this more likely to happen.

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Looks like more than a week later, obstination and silence have done their effect. People finally stopped complaining as it's just useless.

Like all the previous (buggy) releases, this one will be imposed to us without further notice. Like it or not. Who cares ?

 

Let's wait and see. It's only been about a week, and I wouldn't expect any sort of daily or even weekly releases.

 

I'm not hoping for more releases. I'm hoping for it to be pulled down.

 

It has become clear that this is Beta testing. And we didn't sign up to be beta testers.

 

The original page should be reverted to being the default, and move this version into a test area, where it won't cause anymore frustration for the users who never chose to be part of this failing experiment.

 

Then the Devs can continue to bang on it if they choose, until it actually manages to work they way users want it to. But it seems pretty obvious that the smarter thing to do is to step back to the beginning and ask themselves "Why do we still think this is a Good Thing to do when our community clearly disagrees?"

 

Answer that question first, then share your answer with the community.

 

Then start over.

That sounds like the perfect and logical solution to me, giving a chance for a new logging page to evolve through customer feedback, or die away through customer dislike ...

Not that I imagine it will actually happen

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I have just seen a cache where someone posted a Find followed by DNF saying sorry I clicked the wrong option first time. Maybe they assumed that the DNF would supersede the find? I reckon the new logging system makes this more likely to happen.

Yes, having a default log type selected is just inviting mistakes. Far better the old way of having to actually choose the log type.

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I used the improved logging experience to report that an cache needs to be archived. But the result was very strange.

 

I choose "write note".

Described the problem.

Clicked "Needs maintenance" and then "Cache should be archived"

Clicked "Post"

 

And the only result on the cache page was the note log. No indication of any kind that an "Cache should be archived" have been sent.

 

And there is no sign of any way to leave feedback on the new log page.

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I logged a NA on a cache I couldn't find yesterday, as there was a string of DNFs and the owner hasn't logged into the site in 7 months.

 

After selecting the "Needs maintenance" link and then selecting "Needs archived" I would have expected that the text for "Needs maintenance" would have been changed to reflect what I selected, but it didn't. After composing my DNF log I wasn't positive that I selected "Needs archived" so I had to click it again to be sure.

 

Can the text be changed or added to in order to reflect the selection made? Seems odd not to show that.

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I used the improved logging experience to report that an cache needs to be archived. But the result was very strange.

 

I choose "write note".

Described the problem.

Clicked "Needs maintenance" and then "Cache should be archived"

Clicked "Post"

 

And the only result on the cache page was the note log. No indication of any kind that an "Cache should be archived" have been sent.

 

And there is no sign of any way to leave feedback on the new log page.

 

I logged a NA on a cache I couldn't find yesterday, as there was a string of DNFs and the owner hasn't logged into the site in 7 months.

 

After selecting the "Needs maintenance" link and then selecting "Needs archived" I would have expected that the text for "Needs maintenance" would have been changed to reflect what I selected, but it didn't. After composing my DNF log I wasn't positive that I selected "Needs archived" so I had to click it again to be sure.

 

Can the text be changed or added to in order to reflect the selection made? Seems odd not to show that.

@ChileHead: Did you get a Needs archived log showing on the cache listing as a result? I'm curious if peter-tvm's experience above was a one-time fluke or if selecting "Cache should be archived" really doesn't create an NA log. That would be a very bad thing, because the instant notification system wouldn't send an email without the log being created, and there would be no easily-viewable record of the NA being submitted.

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