Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
PISA-caching

Defibrillators

28 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

Lately I was walking around here in Vienna and suddenly I noticed a public defibrillator. I thought that this is a great idea, because everything, that saves lifes, is a good idea. So I did a little research and learned that several of these can be found in Vienna and also in other parts of the world.

 

What do you think? Would that be a good idea for a new category?

 

See for example: https://www.wien.gv.at/presse/2015/11/27/drei-oeffentliche-defis-auf-wiener-mariahilfer-strasse-in-betrieb-genommen

Edited by PISA-caching
0

Share this post


Link to post

Posted (edited)

In the US I think they are overprevalent -- they are pretty much everywhere, anywhere people congregate. They're good things - cheap, easy to use, and have saved lives. There are hundreds at DFW Airport, dozens at sports arenas, several in high schools, and at least one in every city hall or fire station I have been in. They're in hospitals, large office buildings, train stations, churches, supermarkets, YMCAs -- everywhere!

 

I'm not sure how interesting they are, or if they are global.

 

For me, if this becomes a category, it will be a one-and-done.

Edited by Benchmark Blasterz
0

Share this post


Link to post

In the US I think they are overprevalent -- they are pretty much everywhere, anywhere people congregate. They're God things - cheap, easy to use, and have saved lives. There are hundreds at DFW Airport, dozens at sports arenas, several in high schools, and at least one in every city hall or fire station I have been in. They're in hospitals, large office buildings, train stations, churches, supermarkets, YMCAs -- everywhere!

 

I'm not sure how interesting they are, or if they are global.

 

For me, if this becomes a category, it will be a one-and-done.

 

For me they are more interesting than Radio and Television Transmitter Towers :D , but I agree that they will all look alike in certain countries.

 

About prevelance: I would rather create an "Out of place defibrillators" or "Outdoor defibrillators" category - in other words: Hospitals, supermarkets etc. wouldn't be accepted.

0

Share this post


Link to post

When this idea came up the first time, they were still quite rare in my area. But this has changed. My opinion: Over-prevalent, not enough interesting.

 

It would be a category on the quality level of Payphones, with the same few people posting masses of uninteresting waymarks just to blow up their numbers. And everyone else would do one for the icon. No thanks!

0

Share this post


Link to post

When this idea came up the first time, they were still quite rare in my area. But this has changed. My opinion: Over-prevalent, not enough interesting.

 

It would be a category on the quality level of Payphones, with the same few people posting masses of uninteresting waymarks just to blow up their numbers. And everyone else would do one for the icon. No thanks!

 

I see payphones many times - every day and everywhere, but hardly any outdoor defibrillators. I really wonder where people would find "masses" of them (at least here in Vienna). Anyway, it was worth a try.

0

Share this post


Link to post

Anyway, it was worth a try.

 

I don't think the forums here are active enough to get real opinions, just the same small group of nay sayers unless it's their idea. <_<

 

Waymarking is full of silly ideas, and I believe it has room for yours as well. :)

 

Write it up and send it to peer review, there you will get your answers, not here in the forums. B)

0

Share this post


Link to post

Anyway, it was worth a try.

 

I don't think the forums here are active enough to get real opinions, just the same small group of nay sayers unless it's their idea. <_<

 

Waymarking is full of silly ideas, and I believe it has room for yours as well. :)

 

Write it up and send it to peer review, there you will get your answers, not here in the forums. B)

 

The forum might not be active enough to get a representative answer, but I heard some good arguments against my idea and it doesn't make sense to do all the work, if there isn't at least one other waymarker who is excited about the new idea. But thanks for the positive Feedback "silly idea" :-)

0

Share this post


Link to post

Anyway, it was worth a try.

 

I don't think the forums here are active enough to get real opinions, just the same small group of nay sayers unless it's their idea. <_<

 

Waymarking is full of silly ideas, and I believe it has room for yours as well. :)

 

Write it up and send it to peer review, there you will get your answers, not here in the forums. B)

 

The forum might not be active enough to get a representative answer, but I heard some good arguments against my idea and it doesn't make sense to do all the work, if there isn't at least one other waymarker who is excited about the new idea. But thanks for the positive Feedback "silly idea" :-)

 

Just for the record, I thought you idea was feasable. :)

0

Share this post


Link to post

In the city where I live, there are already over 800 public access defibrillators.

0

Share this post


Link to post

Posted (edited)

This link shows how many public defibrillators are in place just on one small college campus. There are many MANY thousands more in Dallas.

 

https://riskmanagement.unt.edu/riskman/index.php?section=aedirc#mapsaddresses

 

And I found this story too: http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Group-Works-To-Locate-Document-All-North-Texas-AEDs-414226343.html

Edited by Benchmark Blasterz
0

Share this post


Link to post

Is there a WM category for fire extinguishers? :laughing:

0

Share this post


Link to post

Anyway, it was worth a try.

 

I don't think the forums here are active enough to get real opinions, just the same small group of nay sayers unless it's their idea. <_<

 

Waymarking is full of silly ideas, and I believe it has room for yours as well. :)

 

Write it up and send it to peer review, there you will get your answers, not here in the forums. B)

The forums are not very active, you are right, and you never know how a vote will end. But there is one thing that has not changed for many years: Peer Review has always been more negative than the forum reaction.

 

When there is support in the forum, you might still lose the vote. But when there is little to no support, you have hardly any chance.

0

Share this post


Link to post

When there is support in the forum, you might still lose the vote. But when there is little to no support, you have hardly any chance.

 

Yes, that is true. What is really sad is that this small community holds grudges and votes based on that alone and not guidelines. Nothing can be done about it, Waymarking is broken and Groundspeak left long ago so there is no chance of improvement. :(

0

Share this post


Link to post

Having read a lot of the forum posts on various topics, it does seem that there are a few issues.

However, I personally think that this proposal is fine.

As with most things in the world, there are always those people that will concentrate on the negatives and the differences. And there are those that will be more open and welcoming.

Having been active on several forums and seen a few die or drop in activity to a level where they are little more that a ranting forum for a few entrenched view points, I do hope that this forum and indeed the active people within this hobby focus on trying to welcome new guys.

If a new person to the hobby only reads negative comments and experiences a wall of negativity, it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone if they don't join in discussions. I wonder how many new people have looked at these forums in the past and decided to stay out of them?

0

Share this post


Link to post

Posted (edited)

Welcome to Waymarking!

 

We are all open for new players and welcoming them. You will also find a lot of help when you have questions and issues.

 

I guess the other three forums reflect that better.

 

This one is for new category proposals. That means, it is mainly propaganda for or against new categories, and both sides usually overstate their arguments and try to convince the indecisive ones.

 

There was a time, when Waymarking was not only open and welcoming to new players, but also to all sorts of new categories, no matter what it was. But we had to learn, when you welcome any trash, then you will end up in a junk yard. We already have a lot of trash categories we will never get rid of. Nobody does want more of them. I think this is something we all can agree with. (just not which ones are the great and the bad categories. :ph34r: )

 

So now Waymarking has become more restrictive for new categories. When someone wants to create one, he should be prepared to lose and not take it personal. Because it will most probably happen.

Edited by fi67
0

Share this post


Link to post

So now Waymarking has become more restrictive for new categories. When someone wants to create one, he should be prepared to lose and not take it personal. Because it will most probably happen.

 

Yes, Waymarking only works for the core members here that have ran everyone else off. Anyone else wanting to create a new category has a really tough time. I believe that Waymarking has room for more new members and new categories, but the core members here are running things and they hinder new ideas.

0

Share this post


Link to post

 

There was a time, when Waymarking was not only open and welcoming to new players, but also to all sorts of new categories, no matter what it was. But we had to learn, when you welcome any trash, then you will end up in a junk yard. We already have a lot of trash categories we will never get rid of. Nobody does want more of them. I think this is something we all can agree with. (just not which ones are the great and the bad categories. :ph34r: )

 

So now Waymarking has become more restrictive for new categories. When someone wants to create one, he should be prepared to lose and not take it personal. Because it will most probably happen.

 

I think there is a lot of room between welcoming any new idea and the opposite. My impression (and this might be completely wrong) is, that "in the old days" new ideas where discussed, like "Overprevelant, but if you limit it to..." or "Not that interesting, but if we include..." and so on. Nowadays, new ideas are either "good" or (most of the time) "bad ideas" from the start.

 

Don't get me wrong, I really DON'T want to continue the "discussion" about my defibrillator idea, but nobody really tried to get this in the right direction. In my second posting I talked about "Outdoor" or "Out of place" Defibrillators. And a few posts later I was informed that on a college campus in Dallas there are lots of them. Yes, there are lots of them, but "Outdoor"??? To me it sounded like "Nope and now shut up" and this is what I will do now. :-)

0

Share this post


Link to post

Posted (edited)

 

There was a time, when Waymarking was not only open and welcoming to new players, but also to all sorts of new categories, no matter what it was. But we had to learn, when you welcome any trash, then you will end up in a junk yard. We already have a lot of trash categories we will never get rid of. Nobody does want more of them. I think this is something we all can agree with. (just not which ones are the great and the bad categories. :ph34r: )

 

So now Waymarking has become more restrictive for new categories. When someone wants to create one, he should be prepared to lose and not take it personal. Because it will most probably happen.

 

I think there is a lot of room between welcoming any new idea and the opposite. My impression (and this might be completely wrong) is, that "in the old days" new ideas where discussed, like "Overprevelant, but if you limit it to..." or "Not that interesting, but if we include..." and so on. Nowadays, new ideas are either "good" or (most of the time) "bad ideas" from the start.

 

Don't get me wrong, I really DON'T want to continue the "discussion" about my defibrillator idea, but nobody really tried to get this in the right direction. In my second posting I talked about "Outdoor" or "Out of place" Defibrillators. And a few posts later I was informed that on a college campus in Dallas there are lots of them. Yes, there are lots of them, but "Outdoor"??? To me it sounded like "Nope and now shut up" and this is what I will do now. :-)

 

The intent of my post was not to tell you to, in your words, "shut up and go away." I'm from Texas. If that's the message I want to send you, I know how to do that.

 

I thought the discussion we were having was on the topic of whether or not this is a viable category, and if in fact it could have a prevalence problem.

 

As for your attempts to solve the prevalence issue with exclusions, I personally do not think the overprevalence of defibrillators issue can be solved by erecting artificial distinctions without differences, such as "outdoor" or "out of place" -- whatever that means. Why would any agency place a device that is designed to save lives in a place that is OUT OF PLACE? Wouldn't the fact that the defibrillator is provided at a particular location mean that the device was NOT "out of place", but was needed in that place?

 

Also, as others have pointed out, there are issues with whether the devices are interesting, and global.

 

What you choose to do with your category idea is up to you. If you decide to pursue it, I wish you good luck in peer review -- by which I mean: any further comments about this category from me will be written in peer review..

Edited by Benchmark Blasterz
0

Share this post


Link to post

 

There was a time, when Waymarking was not only open and welcoming to new players, but also to all sorts of new categories, no matter what it was. But we had to learn, when you welcome any trash, then you will end up in a junk yard. We already have a lot of trash categories we will never get rid of. Nobody does want more of them. I think this is something we all can agree with. (just not which ones are the great and the bad categories. :ph34r: )

 

So now Waymarking has become more restrictive for new categories. When someone wants to create one, he should be prepared to lose and not take it personal. Because it will most probably happen.

 

I think there is a lot of room between welcoming any new idea and the opposite. My impression (and this might be completely wrong) is, that "in the old days" new ideas where discussed, like "Overprevelant, but if you limit it to..." or "Not that interesting, but if we include..." and so on. Nowadays, new ideas are either "good" or (most of the time) "bad ideas" from the start.

 

Don't get me wrong, I really DON'T want to continue the "discussion" about my defibrillator idea, but nobody really tried to get this in the right direction. In my second posting I talked about "Outdoor" or "Out of place" Defibrillators. And a few posts later I was informed that on a college campus in Dallas there are lots of them. Yes, there are lots of them, but "Outdoor"??? To me it sounded like "Nope and now shut up" and this is what I will do now. :-)

 

The intent of my post was not to tell you to, in your words, "shut up and go away." I'm from Texas. If that's the message I want to send you, I know how to do that.

 

I thought the discussion we were having was on the topic of whether or not this is a viable category, and if in fact it could have a prevalence problem.

 

As for your attempts to solve the prevalence issue with exclusions, I personally do not think the overprevalence of defibrillators issue can be solved by erecting artificial distinctions without differences, such as "outdoor" or "out of place" -- whatever that means. Why would any agency place a device that is designed to save lives in a place that is OUT OF PLACE? Wouldn't the fact that the defibrillator is provided at a particular location mean that the device was NOT "out of place", but was needed in that place?

 

Also, as others have pointed out, there are issues with whether the devices are interesting, and global.

 

What you choose to do with your category idea is up to you. If you decide to pursue it, I wish you good luck in peer review -- by which I mean: any further comments about this category from me will be written in peer review..

 

I guess you don't really care, but what I meant with "out of place" is: Not in places like hospitals, red cross stations etc. where you would expect to find Defibrillators (just like "Out of place graves" that are not in a cemetery). What I had in mind are defibrillators that you can see without leaving the sidewalk. They also should be available 7*24 (not in buildings that are closed at night).

 

About the discussion "interesting or not": If you follow the link in my initial posting you can see a defibrillator that is quite special I think. If you take it out of the compartment, you automatically have a voice connection to the emergency call center for Viennese professional rescue. Additionally an automatic GPS positioning is performed. The touchscreen shows info about the correct usage of the defibrillator and changes to a map of the city when touched. I found all that very interesting and I doubt that all your college campus defibrillators have those features. Anyway, don't worry, I will not go on with this idea as I seem to be the only one interested in it.

0

Share this post


Link to post

I actually think this is a great idea and was actually thinking about this a few weeks ago. Unfortunately I don't think Waymarking.com is robust enough to actually use a list like this. I did a little research and found this app http://www.stayingalive.org/en.php which can be used to find and report AED locations.

 

Your idea certainly wasn't a bad one!

0

Share this post


Link to post

I actually think this is a great idea and was actually thinking about this a few weeks ago. Unfortunately I don't think Waymarking.com is robust enough to actually use a list like this. I did a little research and found this app http://www.stayingalive.org/en.php which can be used to find and report AED locations.

 

Your idea certainly wasn't a bad one!

 

Thanks for the positive feedback. I'm a curious person and so I immediately tried the app you mentioned. Maybe it works fine in your area or other parts of the world, in mine it doesn't I'm afraid. From my current position (Vienna, Austria) it lists 3 AEDs within 5000 meters. 2 are really in Vienna, Austria (but 2.6 kilometers away) and the third one is in Vienne, France - which is more than 1000 kilometers away. :-) It seems like this app is depending on users who list AEDs and lists them without any quality assurance. :-(

0

Share this post


Link to post

I find your comment about 7*24 Defibrillators more interesting than just any Defibrillators. And not allowing Hospital, fire stations, and other first aid locations, would be good too. Maybe also removing all public transportation centers, IE Airports, train/subway stations, bus stations. They are generally 7*24 locations.

0

Share this post


Link to post

From what I heard so far, I doubt that the new category would pass Peer Review, no matter how good the description is. Therefore I will not waste my time to write one (in a foreign language) and rather spend the time to create more waymarks in other categories. Nevertheless, thanks for the positive feedback.

0

Share this post


Link to post

There was recently a story on the local news about local defibrillator scavenger hunts. The goal is to find and report as many defibrillators in the county as possible. These are added to an app so that people will know where to find the nearest defibrillator in an emergency.

0

Share this post


Link to post

Sounds like a great idea. In Austrian and Italian news we had a sad story about an Austrian Tourist who had a heart attack in front of the Colosseum in Rome, Italy. An American doctor administered first aid, but it wasn't possible to find a defibrillator, although there should have been 4 in the area. Additionally, the man was lying in the heat for almost an hour, before the ambulance arrived. The poor man died. See article in English.

0

Share this post


Link to post

I remembered this thread back in  2013.

0

Share this post


Link to post
3 hours ago, lumbricus said:

I remembered this thread back in  2013.

In 2013 public defibrillators were a novelty. In 2017 they are omnipresent. 

0

Share this post


Link to post
9 hours ago, Benchmark Blasterz said:

In 2013 public defibrillators were a novelty. In 2017 they are omnipresent. 

...at least in some countries.

0

Share this post


Link to post

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0