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Release Notes (Website and Geocaching® app) - April 24, 2017

135 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

1.)

 

An other Problem ist the TB & Coin List, it shows only the TBCode but not the Trackingcode.

So if you have some Trasvelbugs in your List the list shows:

 

Trackable | TB1FTQA

Travel Bug

 

Trackable | TB20444

Travel Bug

 

Trackable | TB4NM65

Travel Bug "Mike"

 

...

 

BUT the TBcode is not printed on Travelbugs & Coins , there is only the Trackingcode. So you don't now which TB you have in your hand an Drop into the cache or move it.

 

You can NOT click the name to get to the Detailpage, so you most open a new window, got to search for Travelbugs/Coins, serch it with the Trackingcode and open the Detailpage to see waht TBcode this item has to selcet it in the logging screen. Very Complicated.

 

I think i have think about my hobby and collecting coins & TBs or moving it. I like to GO out an go Caching not to work at the office....

 

I DON'T NEED a Geocaching APP on my PC. I need a full working homepage. Today everybody has large display, and the Page only use 900px in the width, you can use more with no problem but now reduce it more ? Than i can use my phone BUT why i have an outdoor GPS (Garmin).

 

---

 

2.)

 

Bringing the loginpage to the minimun without markdown , smilies, Preview, add more pictures, show the available faviPoint i think we went back to 1980's and my old C64.... oder old MS Dos with only text....

 

I like to wrote long logs on good caches and add more than one picture. I like challenges, sometimes you have to prove your Log authorization with screenshot and pictures, there is one picture not enough.

 

Writing logs mit markdown is not so easy like the old BB Code but OK we have accept it last year. But until today it happens sometimes if you forgot an symbol or to add a free space or empty line the code does not work and show a bad formatted log, with the preview window no problem, check your log fix it send it. BUT NOW ??

 

I think i will went down from induvidel long logs to a fast TFTC or +1 or Found it. When this is what GS wants ? Some years ago i got newsletter with the call to write individual Logs, for more replay and giving back to the CO oder oher Cachers.

But now, i think when we change it to this , why don't change it to an ONLY CHECKBOXES like

x Found Cache

x DNF

x Archiv

it is much easy and faster to log from mobile....

 

I think it is the next step closer to "geochcaching 2.0" like MUNZEE's , search, scan, click, go on. NO THANKS !!!

 

3.)

 

I hope GS will listen to the comunity. Or is the trend only to look forward to new users an appstore sells ?

 

- I am a PM since 2009, but what i get for my money is becoming less and less.

- I am an owner/communitysupporter of many events and 100 geocaches.

 

Please think about your old customers, i hope you dont want to lose them.

 

Who is hiding new geocaches ? The old geocachers or the new guys that have downloaded the app in the store yesterday and go out to search for the first geocaches ?

Without old geocaches with experience there is nothing to search for the new guys, and then there is no interest for them to buy a premium membership or buy apps, coins and other gc stuff.

I don't think that is what the new CO of GS wants?

 

greetings from Germany

Wulfman_Do

Edited by Wulfman_Do
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Please keep in topic and please use respectful language... please.

 

I can only assume this comment refers to my post, because I see it has been deleted.

 

I'm afraid I must stand by my post (which clearly I can't restate here). It was not meant to be disrespectful, and I thought I stated that clearly. I used no inappropriate or disrespectful language. I even used the phrase "I respectfully suggest..."

 

You are advertising open positions at HQ for developers who would be responsible to build features such as this new logging page. Clearly you (HQ) realize you need the talents of those missing developers, or you wouldn't be trying to fill those positions. If you had them, I'd like to hope that this change would have been done differently, in a way that would delight your users, not irritate them.

 

HQ has a persistent problem with ignoring feedback the community gives you. You launch changes to the site that are not well received, you get feedback from your community that is overwhelmingly negative, and yet you continue with the changes. Recent examples that come to mind:

 

- The new Search Page

- The Changes to the Maps

- The phone app

 

Now this.

 

I'm sorry that you found offense in my previous post. It was meant as feedback to a problem that is wider than this one issue (the new logging page). This issue is the just the newest illustration of the problem, and as a member of this community, I still feel it's important to say that.

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Anything that makes it harder for TBs to "Visit" a cache en masse - as people have pointed out this new page does - is in my opinion, a good thing.

 

There, positive feedback. smile.gif

 

But things harder in general, not so much.

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Since today morning i cant open the app on iphone (6s) . Just freeze on the startscreen and than crash. Anyone having same issues?

Mine did the same. I expected it, due to seeing posts similar to yours. It's not unusual for App updates to cause weirdness at times. An uninstall/reinstall should fix it (it did with mine). Or you could try rebooting the iPhone and see how it goes.

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Posted (edited)

I used this new feature last night and have 2 issues I would like to bring forward.

 

First has to do with trackables. I have to click multiple times to have all trackables in my inventory "visit" a cache. This is extremely inefficient compared with the "old" logging page. The added time makes we a) want to skip using "drafts" and ii) stop moving trackables around, neither of which is what I expect the desired outcome for HQ was.

 

The other issue is with uploading a photo. I am happy to be able to add the photo when I create the log, but I am not able to add any info about the photo.

Edited by DougyB
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While the response doesn't appear that feedback will be considered that heavily I would like to add my voice to those who don't want to see the "Add Coordinates" go away just because it takes a small amount of space on the screen. More and more new users are trying to hide with their phones; and of course doing a HORRIBLE job of it. The new app still doesn't provide an averaging function or suggestions to use it. Lack of use doesn't always mean a feature is less valuable. It sometimes mean a practice isn't encouraged enough. This is moving in the wrong direction.

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Some of what I'm about to say has already been touched on, but I think it's important to say it again. I am truly trying to be constructive in my response.

 

Photos

-I do like that there is now the ability to add a photo at the same time as you are logging the cache. This has always been a struggle for me.

-I would like to be able to add more than one photo to the log.

-I would like for there to be a way to add a caption to photos attached to logs.

-It would also be great if you could drag and drop a photo onto the page and it would attach said photo.

 

Maintenance

-I personally like that Needs Maintenance and Needs Archived logs are separate from Found/DNF/Write Note logs. It makes them stand out on the cache page. I'm not sure what these logs will actually look like when added to the cache page, but hopefully they will still stand out to COs and other finders of the cache.

-The options you have for different maintenance that may be required are very few. Not every situation will fit into one of those options. If you are planning on keeping this feature maybe there would be use in adding a some more possible responses.

 

Trackables

- I do actually like the trackable menu here. I think it's great that it can be closed up when not used.

-I think it would be helpful to have links for the trackables here. Then if you don't remember details about the trackable and want more information you could just click the link on the trackable name and it would bring up the TB page. Then you could determine which trackable you dropped off or which you would like to visit, etc.

-It says "Trackable | TB#" . I'm not sure why you need trackable there. Aren't all of these items in this section trackables? I just think that part is redundant. Not a big deal.

 

Favorite Points

- In regards to favorite points, I personally know that clicking the little heard will add a favorite point to the cache, but I think it would be beneficial to add some text along with that to say "Add a Favorite Point" or something like that. Not everyone will know that clicking the heart will add a favorite.

- I think it would be helpful to put on the page how many favorite points you have remaining. With just the clickable heart you have no idea if you even have any favorite points left to give.

 

Coordinates

- Other than typing the coordinates into the log this doesn't seem to be an option. Previously when you added coordinates to a log they were bolded at the top of the log, easily seen by COs or other finders. I liked this. Also, how will you handle owners updating the coordinates for their caches? I don't see a way with the current logging system to do this.

 

Look & Feel

-Some minor inconsistencies; for the dropdowns for log type and date, There is a box around the log type but not around the date. The ability to change the date of your log is important and currently I don't think it stands out as much as it should. In my opinion it is not easy, at first glance, to tell that you can change the date.

-I think there needs to be something to differentiate the text that is the Cache Name and the Cache Owner. Currently it looks the same and is a bit misleading. At first glance I'm not sure if the entire string of text is the Cache name or what. Maybe a dash or different text formatting to separate these two entities.

 

I appreciate you asking for the community's feedback on this new feature. I hope you take some of this into consideration and make some improvements to this.

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Maintenance

-I personally like that Needs Maintenance and Needs Archived logs are separate from Found/DNF/Write Note logs. It makes them stand out on the cache page. I'm not sure what these logs will actually look like when added to the cache page, but hopefully they will still stand out to COs and other finders of the cache.

-The options you have for different maintenance that may be required are very few. Not every situation will fit into one of those options. If you are planning on keeping this feature maybe there would be use in adding a some more possible responses.

 

 

I had the opportunity to try this out this morning. Here's what actually happened:

 

- There was an actual second Needs Maintenance log created, just like in the Olden Days.

- I had chosen the "Other" option, because, of course, the situation didn't fit any other response.

- After choosing "Other", there was no prompt the ask me what the Other Information was.

- The circle-i icon/button turned green.

 

- After submitting the log, I went back to the cache page and found my NM log. I don't remember exactly what the text said, but it was something close to "This geocacher has reported that there is a problem with this cache."

- As that was NOT what I wanted to say, I used the "Edit" feature, which brought me to the "old" log edit page, where I was able to correct the text. I was even able to use the formatting toolbar (because, well, it existed) to highlight some important points to my message to the CO.

 

So, it seems that, at present, we can still have some control over the message, it's just a convoluted process.

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Maintenance

-I personally like that Needs Maintenance and Needs Archived logs are separate from Found/DNF/Write Note logs. It makes them stand out on the cache page. I'm not sure what these logs will actually look like when added to the cache page, but hopefully they will still stand out to COs and other finders of the cache.

-The options you have for different maintenance that may be required are very few. Not every situation will fit into one of those options. If you are planning on keeping this feature maybe there would be use in adding a some more possible responses.

 

 

I had the opportunity to try this out this morning. Here's what actually happened:

 

- There was an actual second Needs Maintenance log created, just like in the Olden Days.

- I had chosen the "Other" option, because, of course, the situation didn't fit any other response.

- After choosing "Other", there was no prompt the ask me what the Other Information was.

- The circle-i icon/button turned green.

 

- After submitting the log, I went back to the cache page and found my NM log. I don't remember exactly what the text said, but it was something close to "This geocacher has reported that there is a problem with this cache."

- As that was NOT what I wanted to say, I used the "Edit" feature, which brought me to the "old" log edit page, where I was able to correct the text. I was even able to use the formatting toolbar (because, well, it existed) to highlight some important points to my message to the CO.

 

So, it seems that, at present, we can still have some control over the message, it's just a convoluted process.

That is interssting. I was wondering how that would work. I have not had the chance to use it myself. I wonder what will happen when they change over the regular logging functionality.

 

I do also like the preview of the log below what I'm typing. I forgot to mention that. I'd like that back. It helps me see if my code for bold, links, what have you worked or not. Often I forget a character or something and that allows me to find my mistakes before submitting the log.

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At first glance, it seems like a LOT of things have been dropped from the logging page. It will take time to find them and get used to the new page but I'll adapt. As for trackables, you've made it tedious enough that I won't be messing with trackables in the future. There is one feature that I don't like. As a cache owner, I do NOT want people adding coordinates to logs. An app will never be as accurate as a dedicated GPSr and nobody should be able to 'correct coordinates' except the cache owner. I will continue to request that cachers remove any coordinates they have added in logs on my caches. People need to learn to expand the search. [;)] I'm still trying to figure out why my Magellan eXplorist will no longer load caches from the site using the Mozilla browser and will only work using Internet Explorer. [:(]

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The new logging page is a HUGE step backwards. I'm disappointed that this will be the future of logging. Here are my comments:

 

  • I can only add one photo!
     
  • I can't caption the said single photo!
     
  • Why is the photo preview so small? Can't it be bigger? Or can't I expand it when I click on it at the very least?
     
  • The 'needs maintenance' box doesn't need to always appear. Won't that be confusing for newer users?
     
  • So if I want to suggest that a cache needs archiving, I need to log the cache, write a note, click needs maintenance then suggest that the cache should be archived? I'm not sure I understand what's wrong with just having a log type of "Needs archived"?
     
  • When I click the needs maintenance box, I only have a few canned responses. Can't I write my own reasons for why I believe the cache needs maintenance? When I select 'other' there's no pop up or request for extra explanation? Where do I explain my request for maintenance? Hopefully I'm not expected to write it in my 'found it' log!
     
  • The cache title and cache owner are in dark grey text. It's not prominent in bright colours like it should be / used to be. I didn't even know I could click on the title or owner until I scrolled over it with my mouse.
     
  • The add coordinate function is lost. I just used that function the other day when a new cache had coordinates that were 15 meters off. Having my suggested coordinates bolded at the top of the log makes them clearly visible. It's inconvenient for me to have to write out the coordinates by hand in the log text. The add coordinate function gives me the coordinates then I just tweak them slightly to match my notes. It's less likely I will make a typing error this way too.
     
  • The writing space seems tiny. It expands, but it just looks tiny. The old style looks big and inviting.
     
  • When I give a favourite I'd like to know how many I have remaining.
     
  • The text format bar has disappeared! How will I add bolding, italics, links, etc? I don't remember the markdown shortcuts, nor do I care to. That's what the bolding button is for!
     
  • I just looked up and tried the markdown shortcut for bolding on some text and it didn't bold the text. Will it only appear when I submit the post? What about smileys?
     
  • Following up from above, the function that allows me to preview how the text will look when I submit it is gone.
     
  • It seems inconsistent that the "!" button says "Needs maintenance" beside it all the time while the camera and heart don't say "Add a photo" and "Add a favourite".
     
  • The page looks like it was designed from a phone app (was it?). A web page does not and should not look like a phone app page because there's a much larger screen and a more precise selection tool (mouse vs. finger). There is room to include all of the functions that have been removed!
     
  • Why is there a grey background and grey fonts? Why not black and white?

Overall it seems like many, many features are removed. Please reconsider these points and realize that this is a step backwards, not an improvement!

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I agree with almost everything you say here. For those of us who don't have a smartphone because we live where it isn't offered, it really looks like GS is trying to push us away. It seems very apparent to me that the techies have zero interest in anyone who isn't using a smartphone. For me, they have made it so I can't even load caches with my Magellan, using the Firefox browser. I am stuck using Internet Explorer, of all things. Talk about a giant step backwards.

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Personally, I see this as a huge step backwards for Geocaching.

There were a number of features that were extremely useful to me, as a very active cacher (13,000+ finds and 400+ hides) that I will be very upset if they are removed forever.

1. The trackable visit all/dropped all button. This is a feature I used on about 75% of the caches I visited. This feature is extremely handy when you have a list of 40 or 50 TBs you are moving around. To click each one individually is Labour intensive and time consuming, meaning plain and simple - I won't be doing it.

2. It is impossible to know which TB you are clicking on unless you look up each TB in a separate browser as you are logging. When I drop 1 of say 40 bugs, I know which tracking code I dropped, not which TB reference number I dropped. This is almost enough to make me not want to deal with trackables anymore. Very annoying.

3. The add coordinates to log feature. You may say it doesn't get used enough, I say bullox. Too many times cache owners place their cache and then become unresponsive to emails and notes... The only way to tell other Cachers that the coordinates are out is in the body of a log text? Not very effective. This is a feature that NEEDS to stay. Clearly, I am not the only one that feels this way, although our voices will likely go unheard or ignored...

4. There is no where to add a title or description to your photo when it is uploaded. When 40 people all start posting the same image for an Earthcache on the gallery, how do you know which one belongs to which team or cacher without titles. Alright, not everyone uses titles or descriptions on their pics, but it makes it a lot easier for us EC owners to look quickly and see what is posted.

5. The layout looks like an app. If I wanted to use an app, I would use c:geo (because don't even get me started on the official geocaching app and it's flaws)... Not the actual website. I have a 19" screen on my computer. This userface looks pathetic and puny on my screen. At least the old page took up the entire screen. The colour profile on this page is also very strange... What happened to brown and green? Camo colours! None of this blue and grey.

6. Why, after I submit my log, does the cache page load??? Of you are looking for a way to streamline mobile data use (which must be the only reason for the bare bones looking page and removing some of the most important features) why on earth would you automatically load each cache page? I have already found it and logged it, send me back to my field notes page or something useful! Don't waste data by loading the page for a cache I have already found and, to be entirely honest, probably won't look at again for a while.

6. Needs maintenance - likely missing, or other? What, no button for "cache is a sopping wet disgusting mess, infested with bugs and needs some major TLC?" How about "cache is in disrepair" as one of the options? IMHO "likely missing" shouldn't even BE an option... At least not the first option available.

7. On that same note...There have been SO many times I have received NM or even NA logs on D4 and D5 caches that I have hidden, because someone with 14 finds went out and spent 15 minutes looking and couldn't find it. I can see that number increasing ten gold with the new button. Unless GS is going to add a disclaimer label to the use of the button - when you hover over it - "please only use this feature if you have given the area a thorough search and have exhausted all possible hiding locations, or you have located the geocache and it is damaged" or it will make those of us who place high D caches go absolutely bonkers. At least when it was a separate log it took a little bit of effort to log a NM or NA. Now it is almost too easy to do.

 

I guess my point is... I greatly dislike it. Not because I don't like change... Change can be great! But because IMHO there are some major features missing and design flaws. I don't think I have EVER posted on the forums regarding a design update to have my say... This update just upset me that much. I really hope some additional changes are rolled out before long, or the entire thing is scrapped and I can go back to all the features I use regularly.

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1.)

 

An other Problem ist the TB & Coin List, it shows only the TBCode but not the Trackingcode.

So if you have some Trasvelbugs in your List the list shows:

 

Trackable | TB1FTQA

Travel Bug

 

Trackable | TB20444

Travel Bug

 

Trackable | TB4NM65

Travel Bug "Mike"

 

...

 

BUT the TBcode is not printed on Travelbugs & Coins , there is only the Trackingcode. So you don't now which TB you have in your hand an Drop into the cache or move it.

 

You can NOT click the name to get to the Detailpage, so you most open a new window, got to search for Travelbugs/Coins, serch it with the Trackingcode and open the Detailpage to see waht TBcode this item has to selcet it in the logging screen. Very Complicated.

 

I think i have think about my hobby and collecting coins & TBs or moving it. I like to GO out an go Caching not to work at the office....

 

I DON'T NEED a Geocaching APP on my PC. I need a full working homepage. Today everybody has large display, and the Page only use 900px in the width, you can use more with no problem but now reduce it more ? Than i can use my phone BUT why i have an outdoor GPS (Garmin).

 

---

 

2.)

 

Bringing the loginpage to the minimun without markdown , smilies, Preview, add more pictures, show the available faviPoint i think we went back to 1980's and my old C64.... oder old MS Dos with only text....

 

I like to wrote long logs on good caches and add more than one picture. I like challenges, sometimes you have to prove your Log authorization with screenshot and pictures, there is one picture not enough.

 

Writing logs mit markdown is not so easy like the old BB Code but OK we have accept it last year. But until today it happens sometimes if you forgot an symbol or to add a free space or empty line the code does not work and show a bad formatted log, with the preview window no problem, check your log fix it send it. BUT NOW ??

 

I think i will went down from induvidel long logs to a fast TFTC or +1 or Found it. When this is what GS wants ? Some years ago i got newsletter with the call to write individual Logs, for more replay and giving back to the CO oder oher Cachers.

But now, i think when we change it to this , why don't change it to an ONLY CHECKBOXES like

x Found Cache

x DNF

x Archiv

it is much easy and faster to log from mobile....

 

I think it is the next step closer to "geochcaching 2.0" like MUNZEE's , search, scan, click, go on. NO THANKS !!!

 

3.)

 

I hope GS will listen to the comunity. Or is the trend only to look forward to new users an appstore sells ?

 

- I am a PM since 2009, but what i get for my money is becoming less and less.

- I am an owner/communitysupporter of many events and 100 geocaches.

 

Please think about your old customers, i hope you dont want to lose them.

 

Who is hiding new geocaches ? The old geocachers or the new guys that have downloaded the app in the store yesterday and go out to search for the first geocaches ?

Without old geocaches with experience there is nothing to search for the new guys, and then there is no interest for them to buy a premium membership or buy apps, coins and other gc stuff.

I don't think that is what the new CO of GS wants?

 

greetings from Germany

Wulfman_Do

 

!!! We totally agree to Wulfman_Do !!!

 

greetings from germany

elvira crew

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- As that was NOT what I wanted to say, I used the "Edit" feature, which brought me to the "old" log edit page, where I was able to correct the text. I was even able to use the formatting toolbar (because, well, it existed) to highlight some important points to my message to the CO.

The CO will only get e-mail about the generic log, but, still, good suggestion to make the best of a bad interface by going in manually and editing the log to make it actually useful. At least in most cases, I'd expect the first thing the CO does is go look at the log, so he'll get the full story even if it wasn't in the e-mail alert.

 

Of course, this all just underscores that the new user experience is exactly the opposite of "streamlined".

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At this point, why even bother have a section for writing custom logs. If GS got rid of the "writing" part, the database could just have a check box... "Did you find the geocache... press the [Found It] button and be on your way". Why take a minute to write something when you can be done in 10 seconds?

 

I get that there is old code in the database and GS whats to move forward, but you can write new stuff that functions very similarly to the old stuff.

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Thanks everyone for your feedback; we would like you all to know that we are reading and reviewing everyone’s feedback. This release is not the end of our improvements, we’re continuing to monitor, review, and iterate on this new logging page. I’ll be back to update you on our progress again soon

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At this point, why even bother have a section for writing custom logs. If GS got rid of the "writing" part, the database could just have a check box... "Did you find the geocache... press the [Found It] button and be on your way". Why take a minute to write something when you can be done in 10 seconds?

Already been done. It's impersonal. It's uninteresting. It's Munzee. laughing.gif

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This release is not the end of our improvements, we’re continuing to monitor, review, and iterate on this new logging page.

 

If I believe what I'm reading here and there (and what I also think), this release is by no means an improvement. Nobody semms to think ant good of it. Please review, rethink, redo, re-what-you-want, but do not release this alpha version of the logging page ! Please ! You have the staging site for that purpose, haven't you ?

 

Thanks everyone for your feedback; we would like you all to know that we are reading and reviewing everyone’s feedback.

If you were, you wouldn't mess with the current logging page.

 

Once the new page is ready and once it is really an improvement, we'll sure all be glad to use it. But not quite yet ! We - geocachers are the ones who use the logging page on a daily basis. You - Geocaching.com - are the ones who make it possible. Why making our task harder instead of helping us. We need each other. So why don't you listen to us ? Please someone tell me, because I honnestly can't think of any good reason right now.

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Once the new page is ready and once it is really an improvement, we'll sure all be glad to use it. But not quite yet ! We - geocachers are the ones who use the logging page on a daily basis. You - Geocaching.com - are the ones who make it possible. Why making our task harder instead of helping us. We need each other. So why don't you listen to us ? Please someone tell me, because I honnestly can't think of any good reason right now.

I agree. This is the only website I can think of that regularly performs alpha and beta testing in their production environment and using their entire userbase. If the proper processes were being followed, many of the issues being raised in this discussion should have been identified at the alpha level, or even earlier before development ever started. If we consider that alpha testing has now been performed with this recent update, the product should now go back to the drawing board to be redesigned based on the deficiencies that have been identified.

 

While there are always some people that threaten geocide when changes are made to this site, this change is one that could cause people to actually follow through. The impact on the logging process is significant enough that some people may decide it just isn't worth it anymore. Personally, I'm going to seriously take a look at logging through GSAK in order to avoid this new page entirely, because it doesn't meet my needs in many respects and creates far too much inefficiency.

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Posted (edited)

... This release is not the end of our improvements, we’re continuing to monitor, review, and iterate on this new logging page. ...

Hi LivingInNarnia,

 

the new logging page is not an improvement and I do not understand why you write it here after so much critical articles. If you are a cacher, you have to understand at least some of the critical points. So I don't understand you, sorry.

 

Since years, I work with the geocaching.com sites only with assistance of greasemonkey scripts like "GC little helper II", because I can not handle many things on the geocaching.com sites direct or it is so much inefficient that it makes no fun, and I also do not have the time to do it in this inefficient way. If the community ask for an improvements, almost nothing happens on groundspeaks site. Sorry, but this is my opinion.

 

Why does it seem, that Groundspeak makes our lives harder than necessary? Is it not already hard enough?

I do not understand that either, really sorry.

 

Yesterday, after some hours, "GC little helper II" could handle fieldnotes about the old-fashioned logging page on geocaching.com. Some days before, "project gc" script fixed a really inefficient handling on a page.

 

I think we can not find a lot of similar scenarios of this world, where a company can do such poor things with his customers and survive this. Groundspeak can do it only, because it has a monopolistic position.

 

I'm used to straight talking (tacheles reden). I hope this posting does not follow any punitive measures, finally you and I also live in a democracy, in which opinions are tolerated and desired.

 

Best regards,

Frank

 

PS: Please forgive me, if my articulation was too much crude or rude. I did not want to offend you, there is no reason for that too. My english is really not the best, sorry for that too.

 

[Edit] But this deleted sentence was just my joke to brighten my article. :laughing: And now I do not have another joke ... :unsure:

 

[Edit2] And now I seems the one, who deleted the sentence ... , funny ..., have found the joke. :laughing:

Edited by 2Abendsegler
removed one sentence
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This release is not the end of our improvements, we’re continuing to monitor, review, and iterate on this new logging page.

 

If I believe what I'm reading here and there (and what I also think), this release is by no means an improvement. Nobody semms to think ant good of it. Please review, rethink, redo, re-what-you-want, but do not release this alpha version of the logging page ! Please ! You have the staging site for that purpose, haven't you ?

 

Thanks everyone for your feedback; we would like you all to know that we are reading and reviewing everyone’s feedback.

If you were, you wouldn't mess with the current logging page.

 

Once the new page is ready and once it is really an improvement, we'll sure all be glad to use it. But not quite yet ! We - geocachers are the ones who use the logging page on a daily basis. You - Geocaching.com - are the ones who make it possible. Why making our task harder instead of helping us. We need each other. So why don't you listen to us ? Please someone tell me, because I honnestly can't think of any good reason right now.

I'm also struggling to see anything that I'd consider an improvement over what we currently have. If the photo icon would allow multiple photos, with captions and descriptions, then sure, it'd be a more streamlined way of doing that. If the text entry field was a true WYSIWYG editor with formatting controls, with a proper-sized editing window, that could be an improvement. But I don't like the boilerplate NM logs (and presumably NA logs are the same) - they should either be completely separate logs or, if they really have to be part and parcel of other logs, at least provide a pop-up edit window in which to describe the cache's problem.

 

But above all, please, please, please don't remove existing functionality! It's there and people use it. Even if not very often, it still gets used when the need arises. Especially don't take it away just for screen aesthetics - remember this is the website, not the app, screen space isn't at a premium.

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It seems clear from all of these comments that this "feature" needs to be pulled.

 

I have used it to log several finds, and I have to say it was not a pleasant experience.

 

I would like to kindly request you roll this back so that we can continue with our caching lives, happily logging thoughtful, complete, and informative logs.

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Bring back the old form.

It worked well for me. SACK the designer of this one.

I cannot add Trackable as easily as before.

The Trackable Code is not listed, so I have to now start recording the TB code in my Field Diary. More time wasted.

I cannot "Visit All" as before.

I have 2 Trackables in my bag with the same name, How do I know which is which ???

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@ GS HQ: Why don't you ask your (fee paying premium) member first? Why don't you test your improvements before in a beta version for some users? Why do you presented us with a fait accompli? Geocaching with you isn't a friendship like-minded people any longer. Groundspeak is profit-oriented company and with your attitude Geocaching is still on the descending branch.

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The update for the app is good. A step forward.

 

It is also good to update the website.

And the new log page looks really nice and modern. But some features are missing. Hope you bring them back.

Don't get angry if something changes or is not more available like before. It is just a game.

Thank you for your work.

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Posted (edited)

It seems clear from all of these comments that this "feature" needs to be pulled.

 

...

 

I would like to kindly request you roll this back so that we can continue with our caching lives, happily logging thoughtful, complete, and informative logs.

thumbs_up02.png

Edited by 2Abendsegler
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- As that was NOT what I wanted to say, I used the "Edit" feature, which brought me to the "old" log edit page, where I was able to correct the text. I was even able to use the formatting toolbar (because, well, it existed) to highlight some important points to my message to the CO.
The CO will only get e-mail about the generic log, but, still, good suggestion to make the best of a bad interface by going in manually and editing the log to make it actually useful. At least in most cases, I'd expect the first thing the CO does is go look at the log, so he'll get the full story even if it wasn't in the e-mail alert.
Maybe you could post a Note with the newly edited text of the NM log. That way, the CO (and any watchers) would get a copy of the real NM log.

 

Of course, this all just underscores that the new user experience is exactly the opposite of "streamlined".
Yep.
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...

It is also good to update the website.

And the new log page looks really nice and modern.

...

... like a phone up? :laughing:

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It really is fine to make a website work like a phone app - optimized for data, not cluttered, appropriate for touch interface, all that ------- for when it's used on a phone. Not a desktop. And it's relatively trivial for a web server to know what sort of device is viewing the website, then serve appropriate content. If you're really good you could make one template dynamic enough to work nicely on any device. Otherwise, you'd need to put the work into developing at least 2 templates.

It is a Bad Thing to serve one single static design for all devices. Granted, there are some aspects to gc.com that adjust for a mobile device. But the vast bulk of interactivity and design esthetic is still very very heavily "mobile-friendly", which is making it harder and harder to make full easy use of the site on a desktop browser.

When these design decisions began, it was as basic a factor as all the "whitespace!" complaints. Now, if features are being removed that are more optimal to have visible on desktop even if more optimally accessed by an extra tap or two on mobile, the actual desktop functionality is being affected by mobile design philosophy.

Not good...

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Logging via GSAK might be a solution to the new problem.

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Logging via GSAK might be a solution to the new problem.

Except that, if they are removing functionality entirely, we may loose the coordinate update and the multiple images, etc.; in the API as well.

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Posted (edited)

If they closed every loophole to uploading more than one image, or any images with a caption/description, that would be enough to commit geocide.

 

Leave us a way, Groundspeak, leave us a way...

Edited by Viajero Perdido
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Logging via GSAK might be a solution to the new problem.

Except that GSAK is a Windows-only application, and needs to be installed, thus creating it's own challenges for many users. Yes, it's an alternative, but it seems that a better alternative is to not create the problem in the first place.

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Logging via GSAK might be a solution to the new problem.

Except that GSAK is a Windows-only application, and needs to be installed, thus creating it's own challenges for many users. Yes, it's an alternative, but it seems that a better alternative is to not create the problem in the first place.

 

 

[FEATURE] Hosted GSAK

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If they closed every loophole to uploading more than one image, or any images with a caption/description, that would be enough to commit geocide.

 

Leave us a way, Groundspeak, leave us a way...

Agreed. I can't believe in my wildest dreams that this would ever happen, but the new page I tried certainly has me scared (only one photo, a terribly small preview of the photo and no ability to caption it).

 

If I'm only 'allowed' to upload one photo, I will still geocache, but my logs would turn into simple "TFTC"s. I would still write the story, but I would do so on a personal blog with no limitations. I use the geocaching site almost as a personal blog to share and record my adventures, and I hope that doesn't have to change. Time will tell.

 

We long log writers who add several photos seem to be the 1% though, that's for sure. (Well, okay, the 3%. A recent check on my most popular cache - on a somewhat scenic mountain summit BTW - which has 400 finds shows only 12 cachers who posted 2 or more photos on their log)

 

But I suppose if it's a feature that is used infrequently, it's gotta go to streamline things.

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If they closed every loophole to uploading more than one image, or any images with a caption/description, that would be enough to commit geocide.

 

Leave us a way, Groundspeak, leave us a way...

Agreed. I can't believe in my wildest dreams that this would ever happen, but the new page I tried certainly has me scared (only one photo, a terribly small preview of the photo and no ability to caption it).

 

If I'm only 'allowed' to upload one photo, I will still geocache, but my logs would turn into simple "TFTC"s. I would still write the story, but I would do so on a personal blog with no limitations. I use the geocaching site almost as a personal blog to share and record my adventures, and I hope that doesn't have to change. Time will tell.

 

We long log writers who add several photos seem to be the 1% though, that's for sure. (Well, okay, the 3%. A recent check on my most popular cache - on a somewhat scenic mountain summit BTW - which has 400 finds shows only 12 cachers who posted 2 or more photos on their log)

 

But I suppose if it's a feature that is used infrequently, it's gotta go to streamline things.

On one of my recent hides (GC6Y0R7 "Neptune's Cathedral"), five of the nine Found It logs have multiple photos, the highest being nine photos. It'd be sad if people could no longer share their experiences this way on such scenic caches.

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If NM and NA stays as sending a generic message with DNF or Found It, could you please at least insert a link to the corresponding log in the generic NM and NA logs to make it easier for owners and fellow geocacher to jump to the real message?

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What are the dates of these NM and NA that are additionally triggered when logging something else?

 

To me it would seem useless to have a NM dated for 2017-03-03 (because the Found it/DNF has that time stamp) for a NM that is actually posted on 2017-05-05.

 

Who needs a NM two months later? Maybe the owner went three times to change a full logbook and replaced the container once in the meanwhile.

 

Or think of geocaches that only get very few logs. Backdated NM let it look like 'there have been two NM months ago and the owner didn't react'. How could an owner know about a problem, if the message actually arrived five minutes ago?

 

It does make sense to log NM at 2017-03-03 to alert owner and fellow geocachers and log Found it or DNF later whenever there is enough time to tell the complete story for the cache. That was possible until now.

 

Some logtypes used to allow only 'today' (maybe +- one day for time zone issues) as log date. And it does make sense that with log types disable, enable, archive this is enforced to prevent chaos.

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What are the dates of these NM and NA that are additionally triggered when logging something else?

I was curious about that too, so I just tried it. If you backdate a log and flag it as Needs maintenance, the date of the NM log on the cache listing is today's date (ie. the date on which you submit the log, not the backdated date). In effect, you can't backdate an NM log, which makes sense.

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Ok.. this one has me a little mad..... I just went to log a cache through the webpage. Everything appeared normal. I wrote up my log, and hit submit...... and it took me to the new log page. I just lost everything I had writen :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

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Posted (edited)

Ok.. this one has me a little mad..... I just went to log a cache through the webpage. Everything appeared normal. I wrote up my log, and hit submit...... and it took me to the new log page. I just lost everything I had writen :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

 

Groundspeak, you need to listen to this. We did not volunteer to be beta (or alpha) testers. This update needs to rolled back from production. If I had imposed a change like this to my users, I'd be looking for a job right now.

Edited by CanUSeeIT
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Posted (edited)

What are the dates of these NM and NA that are additionally triggered when logging something else?

I was curious about that too, so I just tried it. If you backdate a log and flag it as Needs maintenance, the date of the NM log on the cache listing is today's date (ie. the date on which you submit the log, not the backdated date). In effect, you can't backdate an NM log, which makes sense.

 

It makes sense that NM (and NA) can't be backdated.

 

But then it seems even more necessary to include a link to the corresponding log. And inserting the other log date as 'this NM/... was triggered by a log dated ...'

 

And a warning for the the poster like 'your Found it/... precedes the NM/... by ... days/months. Please read the logs for the cache to see whether the issue has been addressed/solved since your visit.'

 

Well, thinking of NM and NA, every logger should have (to have) read the logs. That is also true for the self assigned data base cleaners (posting for geocaches they didn't visit) only relying on output of cache police makros.

 

For highly frequented geocaches (like 7-17 visits per day) logged by tourists that log their field notes after returing home the out of date 'logbook full' or whatever followed the maintenance not only once.

Edited by AnnaMoritz
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I use a somewhat older browser on an even older computer and can no longer log my finds. When I go to the new logging page, everything is grayed out or empty.

 

Even if I've filled in a draft from my phone, it does not show on the logging page on the web site. I cannot type into the text box on the web site, I cannot select "found," "did not find," etc. I cannot click the button to submit.

 

I cannot update my browser due to the age of my computer nor replace my computer due to the fact essential software will not run on newer platforms. Nor would I like to spend the money on a new computer and new software. A new hobby would be cheaper.

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For owners there is an 'update coordinates' log option.

 

The opening message only says 'Update Coordinates'. It doesn't say anything about which coordinates are to be updated.

 

For Traditionals this is simple. One can assume the cache coordinates get updated.

 

For other cachetypes (Multi, Mystery, Wherigo, Letterbox Hybrid) one only can speculate whether this changes the header coordinates of the cache or the final coordinates of the cache without a meaningful label indicating what gets changed.

 

In fact now it seems that for non-traditional caches the header is meant, at least the fields are pre-filled with the header coordinates of the cache.

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For owners there is an 'update coordinates' log option.

 

The opening message only says 'Update Coordinates'. It doesn't say anything about which coordinates are to be updated.

 

For Traditionals this is simple. One can assume the cache coordinates get updated.

 

For other cachetypes (Multi, Mystery, Wherigo, Letterbox Hybrid) one only can speculate whether this changes the header coordinates of the cache or the final coordinates of the cache without a meaningful label indicating what gets changed.

 

In fact now it seems that for non-traditional caches the header is meant, at least the fields are pre-filled with the header coordinates of the cache.

There is a separate part of the cache for owners to update the final coordinates for puzzles, multis, etc. It is the waypoints section on the right side of the cache page, in the Admin Tools section. This is how it has always been. Doing an update coordinates log for ones own cache has always changed the posted coordinates for said cache.

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The log page is a bit slower to bring up than the old one. I measure a pretty consistent 3400ms on the new page vs 2200ms on the old page. It's a bit unsatisfying to see the spinning circle while the page is loading resources or doing some ajaxy thing. Will performance measurements be taken and acted on? Thanks!

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The log page is a bit slower to bring up than the old one. I measure a pretty consistent 3400ms on the new page vs 2200ms on the old page. It's a bit unsatisfying to see the spinning circle while the page is loading resources or doing some ajaxy thing. Will performance measurements be taken and acted on? Thanks!

 

A bit slower? The numbers you posted show it is 50% slower.

 

I loaded up developer tools in FF and I see a few things worth mentioning.

  • There's a 269KB file at https://www.geocaching.com/images/tlnMasters/topo-tile.svg that is being loaded on the page though I don't see being displayed.
  • There's a reference to HotJar being loaded so I expect they are using hotjar which is a tool that shows the GS team where people are mousing, clicking, scrolling, etc. It can be viewed in aggregate or each individual user's session to track the interaction on the page. That doesn't help the page load time and should be disabled as soon as they have enough data collected, which on the log page should be by Monday morning.
  • The server response time to return the root HTML for the latest log page is almost twice as slow as the page was yesterday, even though yesterday's page payload was larger.
  • The ajax calls are likely checking for new messages

It's as if we went in features, usability and performance from a v4.3 site to a v0.3 site. Maybe the source code was lost and they needed to revert to a 3.5" floppy zip copy from 2003?

 

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Posted (edited)

Great job on the update! I know many people are saying you guys don't listen to us, but you guys really do! You have improved three things that really made a difference to me!

 

I feel like the app is just getting better and better. It really showed on this update. The best bug fix was the timestamp issues on the Android app, it works as intended, thanks!!!

 

I love the new way to log now (even though it take a whole 1.1 second longer to load, lol). It is so much easier and cleaner on my phone now. Also using it on the computer it works just fine.

 

I agree with several other people on this thread, anything that makes it harder for someone to mass dip trackables is a good update.

 

I know this happened in another update but thanks for changing the cache icon to be seen better in green areas of the map. They look great!

 

Keep up the good work. I don't want the website or apps to remain the same because people don't like change.

Edited by MersonMonkeys
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It is so much easier and cleaner on my phone now. Also using it on the computer it works just fine.

And there is the problem. It used to work perfectly, now it's "just fine", for some use cases. I don't see why the website needs to be mobile only, when we already have the app.

 

But, it does look like they listen to some feedback. So there's still hope :)

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