Premium Member Geocache Logging Question

[YourQueenBee]

Are premium-member geocache owners allowed to delete logs of non-premium members? This happened to me and I'm not sure of the rules.

[+Sapience Trek]

No. If you signed the logbook, you can claim the find.

 

Often premium members go caching with regular members and will find caches together, including caches set up to be premium member caches. However, anybody can log them. I would contact the cache owner to let them know you will log it again, then log it again. If they continue to delete your finds, you can file a ticket here http://support.Groundspeak.com/index.php?pg=request and select the option for geocacher disagreement.

[+noncentric]

A Premium Member cannot delete logs if the finder actually signed the logbook, regardless of whether the finder is a Premium or Basic member.

 

If the cache owner deleted your log simply because you are not a Premium member, then that is improper behavior on their part. Even if the cache you found is Premium-Member owner (PMO), then you are allowed to log it as a Basic member.

[+WearyTraveler]

I was under the impression that non premium members couldn't see the pages for premium member caches? You're saying that a non premium member can see and actually log a find?

[+Sapience Trek]

I was under the impression that non premium members couldn't see the pages for premium member caches? You're saying that a non premium member can see and actually log a find?

 

They can't view the web page, but they can log a find with help from a premium member.

[+narcissa]

Are premium-member geocache owners allowed to delete logs of non-premium members? This happened to me and I'm not sure of the rules.

 

Cache owners are not allowed to delete valid logs from any cacher. If you signed the logbook, you can log it online.

 

With cache owners like this, the best course of action is to go straight to Groundspeak to get the log restored. If you do choose to engage with the cache owner, keep all communication to official channels, i.e. through the email system or the message centre.

[+noncentric]

I was under the impression that non premium members couldn't see the pages for premium member caches? You're saying that a non premium member can see and actually log a find?

Yep. In some cases, one member of a family may pay for premium membership and go caching with other family members that are Basic members. If those Basic members find the cache, then they are entitled to log the cache. They can use this site to accomplish that: http://www.geocachingadmin.com/

[+Team Microdot]

Are premium-member geocache owners allowed to delete logs of non-premium members? This happened to me and I'm not sure of the rules.

 

Did you sign the logbook?

[+WearyTraveler]

I was mistaken in my assumption that non PM could not log finds on PMO caches...

if that's the case, what's the benefit / privilege of PMO caches?

Ok - they're harder to see online... but are there other things?

From the PMO caches I've found, I don't notice any harder / neater / put a word here benefits to them.

I don't limit my searches / PQs to PMO so to me there's no real difference.

Am I overlooking something obvious?

[+narcissa]

I was mistaken in my assumption that non PM could not log finds on PMO caches...

if that's the case, what's the benefit / privilege of PMO caches?

Ok - they're harder to see online... but are there other things?

From the PMO caches I've found, I don't notice any harder / neater / put a word here benefits to them.

I don't limit my searches / PQs to PMO so to me there's no real difference.

Am I overlooking something obvious?

 

The benefits of PMO are minimal and geared toward the cache owner.

 

The listings aren't shown to non-PMs, so that probably helps to detere some of the riff-raff, especially in urban areas. When a non-PM finds the cache, it's probably with a PM. It's fairly common for members of a household to have separate accounts, but only one account with PM. And caching friends go together and a PM may share coordinates for a PMO cache with someone.

 

Listing a cache as PMO gives you an "audit log" feature that some people really enjoy.

 

I have never noticed a marked difference between PMO and non-PMO caches in terms of quality. Most of the PMO caches in my area are roadside caches with low D/T ratings, so the owners make them PMO to protect them from non-PM app users.

[+Cardinal Red]

Are premium-member geocache owners allowed to delete logs of non-premium members? This happened to me and I'm not sure of the rules.

 

Cache owners are not allowed to delete valid logs from any cacher. If you signed the logbook, you can log it online.

 

With cache owners like this, the best course of action is to go straight to Groundspeak to get the log restored. If you do choose to engage with the cache owner, keep all communication to official channels, i.e. through the email system or the message centre.

 

The curse of having been here for more than a decade, is we remember a lot of "stuff". Where is the discussion where Groundspeak allowed log deletions under EXACTLY these circumstances to stand unchallenged, because the cache owner questioned the exact wording Groundspeak used to describe Premium Caches. Are you saying they now have an official policy that addresses that old issue? Or are you pretending it never happened?

[+NanCycle]

Most of the PMO caches in my area are roadside caches with low D/T ratings, so the owners make them PMO to protect them from non-PM app users.

 

Often referred to as "muggles with apps" meaning that they found the app on their phone and have no other knowledge of geocaching, including guidelines and expectations. For instance, it has happened that these "muggles with apps" assume that when they find the cache they are supposed to take it and either keep it or hide it somewhere else.

[+cerberus1]

I was mistaken in my assumption that non PM could not log finds on PMO caches...

if that's the case, what's the benefit / privilege of PMO caches?

Ok - they're harder to see online... but are there other things?

From the PMO caches I've found, I don't notice any harder / neater / put a word here benefits to them.

I don't limit my searches / PQs to PMO so to me there's no real difference.

Am I overlooking something obvious?

I feel that the audit was the biggest draw for pmo at one time.

Later, some figured they sorta kept the free app kids who didn't want to learn about the hobby, keeping trackables as "souvenirs of their weekend caching" away.

 

Today, I agree, and we really haven't seen anything special about pmo - ever.

May be just me, but I wouldn't become pm for a pmo lamp post or guardrail hide.

Now that there's so many ways to bypass the audit too, seems (to me) like it's merely a "because I'm pm and I can" thing.

[+cerberus1]

Are premium-member geocache owners allowed to delete logs of non-premium members? This happened to me and I'm not sure of the rules.

 

Cache owners are not allowed to delete valid logs from any cacher. If you signed the logbook, you can log it online.

 

With cache owners like this, the best course of action is to go straight to Groundspeak to get the log restored. If you do choose to engage with the cache owner, keep all communication to official channels, i.e. through the email system or the message centre.

 

The curse of having been here for more than a decade, is we remember a lot of "stuff". Where is the discussion where Groundspeak allowed log deletions under EXACTLY these circumstances to stand unchallenged, because the cache owner questioned the exact wording Groundspeak used to describe Premium Caches. Are you saying they now have an official policy that addresses that old issue? Or are you pretending it never happened?

Good one.

Remembered their log was deleted, reinstated and later removed again (Mar, '13).

A Lackey responded within a week to the thread ("working on a fix"), but the thread ended in May with no further post by them.

Linked it Here.

I don't see wording different, but it may be one of those things were it's slightly different in time and not noticed.

[+narcissa]

Are premium-member geocache owners allowed to delete logs of non-premium members? This happened to me and I'm not sure of the rules.

 

Cache owners are not allowed to delete valid logs from any cacher. If you signed the logbook, you can log it online.

 

With cache owners like this, the best course of action is to go straight to Groundspeak to get the log restored. If you do choose to engage with the cache owner, keep all communication to official channels, i.e. through the email system or the message centre.

 

The curse of having been here for more than a decade, is we remember a lot of "stuff". Where is the discussion where Groundspeak allowed log deletions under EXACTLY these circumstances to stand unchallenged, because the cache owner questioned the exact wording Groundspeak used to describe Premium Caches. Are you saying they now have an official policy that addresses that old issue? Or are you pretending it never happened?

 

The official policy has been, for a long time, that any cache can be logged as found once the logbook has been signed. I see nothing in that wormhole of old threads to suggest there was a change, and the backdoor to log PMO caches is apparently still active.

 

Joined: 04-May 05

[+colleda]

I'll stay PM in the hope that one day I'll be upgraded to Platinum. But then I'd still be PM Hmmmm.

[+hzoi]

I'll stay PM in the hope that one day I'll be upgraded to Platinum. But then I'd still be PM Hmmmm.

Yes, but the "P" in the new PM will be shinier. (As seen by other Platinum Members only, of course.)

[+colleda]

I'll stay PM in the hope that one day I'll be upgraded to Platinum. But then I'd still be PM Hmmmm.

Yes, but the "P" in the new PM will be shinier. (As seen by other Platinum Members only, of course.)

Oh-oh. The cat's out of the bag. Only a platinum member would know that.

[+hzoi]

I'll stay PM in the hope that one day I'll be upgraded to Platinum. But then I'd still be PM Hmmmm.

Yes, but the "P" in the new PM will be shinier. (As seen by other Platinum Members only, of course.)

Oh-oh. The cat's out of the bag. Only a platinum member would know that.

I read about it, with a special pair of sunglasses I found in an apparently unlisted cache.

 

[+thomfre]

Did something change with the new logging page? Is the old loophole that allowed basic members to log PMO-caches closed? I don't have any basic users to test with, so this is based purely on what people are telling me...

[+hzoi]

18 hours ago, thomfre said:

Did something change with the new logging page? Is the old loophole that allowed basic members to log PMO-caches closed? I don't have any basic users to test with, so this is based purely on what people are telling me...

What are they telling you? 

As of June there were at least four ways of logging PMO caches as a basic member.  If they tried one of these, which one wasn't working?

(edit: using the new logging system, rather than using the numeric ID for the PMO cache, they can just use the GC----- code for the cache; that might be the hangup)

Edited July 18, 2017 by hzoi
added info

[+thomfre]

1 hour ago, hzoi said:

What are they telling you? 

As of June there were at least four ways of logging PMO caches as a basic member.  If they tried one of these, which one wasn't working?

(edit: using the new logging system, rather than using the numeric ID for the PMO cache, they can just use the GC----- code for the cache; that might be the hangup)

I don't know what they did wrong, but it worked today. So I guess everything is like before

[+Pond Bird]

On 4/17/2017 at 11:34 PM, noncentric said:

Yep. In some cases, one member of a family may pay for premium membership and go caching with other family members that are Basic members. If those Basic members find the cache, then they are entitled to log the cache. They can use this site to accomplish that: http://www.geocachingadmin.com/

Thats exactly what I do with my family they always go with me so if they end up finding a PMO I just copy the link to log and paste it in the other browser for them to log a find on the cache they did with me. 

[okiecop]

I could not find another thread to post this so I decided to post it here.  I joined geocache over ten years ago and only recently got back into it. (Raising kids, deploying, working etc). I believe this was before any "premium" membership, or if there was I was unaware of it at the time. 

I am finding that some of the caches I found nearly 10 years ago are now "premium" caches and I am not even allowed to view the pages for these caches because I am not a "premium" member.  Is there any way to get around this?  I was wanting to look at the recent activity of some of the local caches where I haunt but cannot do so.  

Also, my sons (ages 8 and 5) are joining me on my excursions and I was explaining to them about travel bugs and coins.  It seems that these are only being placed in the "premium" caches these days, or is this just in my area?  Any answers or comments would be greatly appreciated.  I find it a little frustrating to have had full access for free at one time and now have to pay to play so to speak.  

[Keystone]

9 minutes ago, okiecop said:

I could not find another thread to post this so I decided to post it here.  I joined geocache over ten years ago and only recently got back into it. (Raising kids, deploying, working etc). I believe this was before any "premium" membership, or if there was I was unaware of it at the time. 

I am finding that some of the caches I found nearly 10 years ago are now "premium" caches and I am not even allowed to view the pages for these caches because I am not a "premium" member.  Is there any way to get around this?  I was wanting to look at the recent activity of some of the local caches where I haunt but cannot do so.  

Also, my sons (ages 8 and 5) are joining me on my excursions and I was explaining to them about travel bugs and coins.  It seems that these are only being placed in the "premium" caches these days, or is this just in my area?  Any answers or comments would be greatly appreciated.  I find it a little frustrating to have had full access for free at one time and now have to pay to play so to speak.  

Welcome back to geocaching!

I looked at your 88 logged cache finds.  Only three are "premium members only" caches.  This is about normal, or a little better than normal.  You would need to be a premium member to see the coordinates and other details for those three caches.  You can still see your own logs from your account details.

Premium memberships were introduced in 2002 so, yes, you must have been unaware of the premium membership features when you were active ten years ago.

[+jellis]

Didn't I read somewhere one PM cacher threw a big stink about how he is paying for PM and should be allowed to delete logs of non PM and they let him.

[+cerberus1]

11 hours ago, jellis said:

Didn't I read somewhere one PM cacher threw a big stink about how he is paying for PM and should be allowed to delete logs of non PM and they let him.

Yes, in '13, and it was explained  twelve posts above this one. 

 - And still haven't actually had a response... 

[Ashlealeeann]

Joined in with my 30-day trial, although im unable to actually see the location or any information about the premium caches nearby. My account shows as premium although when put into list view it shows the premium caches when i click on the premium for further information such as the location i get a message reading "only premium member can find this geocache"

Edited June 8, 2018 by Ashlealeeann

[RuideAlmeida]

6 minutes ago, Ashlealeeann said:

Joined in with my 30-day trial, although im unable to actually see the location or any information about the premium caches nearby. My account shows as premium although when put into list view it shows the premium caches when i click on the premium for further information such as the location i get a message reading "only premium member can find this geocache"

 

Already answered in your thread. Please avoid duplicating questions.

[+The Snowdog]

"if that's the case, what's the benefit / privilege of PMO caches?

Ok - they're harder to see online... but are there other things?"

 

That's the only reason I make my traditional caches PMO; only actual geocachers (as opposed to the aforementioned "muggles with the app") can see them and they tend to last a lot longer. All of my other caches (mystery, Earth Cache, and so on) are for everyone, not just PM.

 

Also, those of you that have let the "Platinum" cat out of the bag will be getting a strongly worded email from PHQ.

Edited June 8, 2018 by The Snowdog

[+Jayeffel]

ok, is there a platinum level membership?

[Keystone]

The first rule of Platinum Membership is that you don't talk about Platinum Membership.

[+Jayeffel]

my lips are sealed