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Doc_Cadaverous

Where's my Watchlist?

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Logged in today, and thought I'd check on my Watchlist caches and trackables, to see their latest adventures. So I hit the lists link, as I always have, but it tells me that lists is a premium feature.

 

Umm, I'm a Basic and have been since 2006, and I've always, every time I've tried, been able to add caches and trackables to my watchlist, so that I can watch/follow/bookmark them, their adventures and travels. So why suddenly is it premium only?

 

I have issues with the "premium" thing anyway, as I feel and have always understood that geocaching is open and available to EVERYONE with a GPS. I took a class once, not about geocaching or GPS, but on another topic, but the same "rules" apply, so I'll substitute geocaching for the actual topic. The instructor of the class said, "there are two rules that we have in this class, 1. Geocaching is supposed to be fun. 2. If your not having fun, refer to rule number 1". I've been having fun, enjoying the adventure, and excitement of geocaching since 2006 (11 years) with friends and family, I've even gotten my girlfriend and her family 1700 miles away involved and "in the game", all this and I'm just a Basic member, and currently planning to stay that way. My physical personal experience with "premium" members hasn't been all that inviting, enjoyable, or pleasant, in fact if I wasn't already a geocacher, and my dealings with these premiums was my first experience, I'm pretty sure I'd not join the game, I'd have walked away and never geocached again. I went to an event in my area, and everyone there except myself, was a premium, and I never felt included, nobody talked to me, the premiums got in their little clique and commenced trashing cachers and caches in the area and surrounding area. When I attempted to join the conversation about some very cool caches I'd found, I was made to feel like my finds were trivial, and not worthy of mention among premiums, that their finds, caches, and geocaching was superior to anything I'd done, or would ever do. Maybe it was just this group of premiums that are the issue, but it tainted my view of the premium membership, as I see seen firsthand how it segregated the basics from the premiums, it creates a division in the game, it doesn't promote geocaching in a positive light in my experiences (I've had other brief encounters with premiums, and had similar outcomes of feeling like I'm inferior). I just read posts about premium membership issues, and even some of them are put off by the premium thing. Paying money to purchase status, then looking down your nose at others who don't, yeah, that's cool isn't it? It really promotes, encourages and invites others to join the sport, doesn't it? I see premium membership as a boughten sign of status, sort of like paying money to buy a diploma so that you can impress people, and gain special treatment, because you bought it, and now that makes you superior.

 

Premiums have special caches, only available to them, they can "favorite" caches adding to the popularity, they can have special search options, allowing them, usually guaranteeing them all the FTF's, and more, basically screwing Basics out of getting excited over a FTF, or promoting the awesome caches they find by adding to the favorite status, and now apparently it's only premiums who can watch/follow/bookmark caches and trackables. Yep, that sounds like a positive, inviting, enjoyable sport/activity to be a part of, sort of like a novice gamer playing a video game against a pro with all the cheats/eastereggs/tips and tricks, yep sounds fair to me, getting screwed before the game even starts, all because one person paid money to purchase their status, and the other was just playing the game for the excitement, thrill, and fun that it brings.

 

I know that this has been a long rant about what's wrong in my opinion, with the "premium" membership, and I realize that it's a vast generalization, and not all premiums are like that, and I apologize to those who aren't like that, and who are honorable and positive role models of geocaching. I just feel that Basics are getting the shaft in lots of cases to begin with, and now having the Watchlist suddenly become a "premium only" perk, pretty soon Basics will be only able to view caches with a difficulty of 1, or terrain of 1, because anything higher will be for the special, select group who pay to buy in to the game, which defeats the purpose the game was created in the first place.

 

Just wondering if I'm alone in this observation and thought?

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Sure you're not viewing a "beta" list page?

- This one didn't include my watchlist either, yet the "old" one did. :)

 

If so, you can view it my looking for the "back to the old page".

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I am in favor of premium for many reasons but one of them is NOT to make cliques or for "status" which I believe comes from human error and not geocaching itself. I am sorry you've experienced the cliques. I have as well but I've noticed there are the prissy cliques and then cliques that just happen among friends because they share memories that only they as a group have experienced. As a person new to a group it might take a while to feel a part of it but instead of just sharing sometimes it's good to listen. People are interesting in that they all want to share but not always willing to hear. In my experience, if you give an ear and make someone else feel heard then they will listen as well.

 

I think Geocaching is always what you make it. If a person's main attraction to geocaching is the people or making friends, their experience will be much different then a person who wants to use the activity as a means to get out and explore. Neither of those choices is bad or better than the other,just up to the individual on how they enjoy geocaching. I have a friend who's into numbers and it annoys the crap out of me somedays but I can respect that it's fun for them to do that.

 

Now as for premium, I can see why you might have a negative view but geocaching is run by a company, a business, and as such, it needs money. Premium provides people a way to give to something they love and support; although, much has seemed to change and there isn't much of a choice now especially if you want to use all the bells and whistles of the site. Some cachers may make premium a very pompous thing but I see the positive of keeping some of the more challenging caches out of reach from the newly joining members that may not know how to approach the challenge just yet. "out of sight out of mind" has allowed me as a hider to keep the higher terrain and difficulty caches away from people who are not prepared for them,( and then end up frustrating themselves and blaming me for their inconvenience) but I don't see that by doing that makes it about being in the "in" group or looking down on the newer members but rather something to work toward.

Saving money is always nice but the way I see it is for any hobby you're going to spend at least a little money on it. Like kayaking, hiking, hang gliding, swimming, or extreme chess playing, there are tools and resources that a person will pay for so they can enjoy the game a little better or get more out of it.

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'Premiums' are paying for your lunch.

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WOW

What a long rant about how you feel you should get something for nothing! <_<

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If you don't feel like bookmarking the direct link provided in an earlier helpful reply, basic members can access their watchlist from their dashboard page, by following the watchlist link in the right hand column.

 

Shame to waste such an eloquent rant, but I'm afraid it's misplaced. Watchlists are part of the basic membership experience, and they aren't affected.

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I went to an event in my area, and everyone there except myself, was a premium, and I never felt included, nobody talked to me, the premiums got in their little clique

 

I'm surprised you would know that everybody there is a premium member. I've been to a lot of events, and I have no idea who is premium and who isn't. Nobody wears badges saying "I'm a Premium!" and I can't recall this ever coming up in a conversation at an event, unless you happen to be talking about one of the small number of features available to premium members only.

 

As far as cliques, are they really exclusionary or just groups of people that know one another well and hang out? I'm not a real social person, so when I go to events I tend to talk with the people I know and have cached with these past 14 years or so. There are a lot of people in my area I don't know, and I will not strike up a conversation with them unless I recognize their name and have something to say about their cache or a log of theirs.

 

Paying money to purchase status, then looking down your nose at others who don't,

 

I really don't believe there is anybody who pays money to purchase status. They pay money to get access to additional features and caches.

 

Premiums have special caches, only available to them

 

Many people make their caches premium to reduce the chances of a cache getting taken in high muggle areas. I've made mine premium only when there are reports of cache theft, usually a temporary thing because some young kid found out about geocaching and wanted to be a jerk. Or they do it to reduce traffic so the cache owner doesn't need to do as much maintenance.

 

they can "favorite" caches adding to the popularity,

 

If adding favorite points was available to all cachers, then cache popularity could easily be fudged by creating accounts whose purpose was to favorite one's own or friends caches. I could easily get 100 favorite points in an hour by creating bogus accounts.

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As far as cliques, are they really exclusionary or just groups of people that know one another well and hang out? I'm not a real social person, so when I go to events I tend to talk with the people I know and have cached with these past 14 years or so. There are a lot of people in my area I don't know, and I will not strike up a conversation with them unless I recognize their name and have something to say about their cache or a log of theirs.

 

I guess it's the difference between hanging out with your friends, or making all the attendees feel welcomed? I don't attend a lot of events. I'm not a social dolphin and have bad name/face recognition. After twelve years geocaching, cachers finally recognize me and invite me to sit with them. (I do seem to have a reputation as a cache hider...) But for a long time, I thought cliquish was the way events were. And for the most part, I still do.

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I have never had anyone at an event ask about premium membership or otherwise differentiate people based on premium membership. It's simply a set of useful features that some people choose to pay for.

 

Generally speaking, when I have encountered geocachers who complain about "clique" behaviour at events, it's mostly imaginary and has more to do with poor social skills.

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I have never had anyone at an event ask about premium membership or otherwise differentiate people based on premium membership. It's simply a set of useful features that some people choose to pay for.

 

Generally speaking, when I have encountered geocachers who complain about "clique" behaviour at events, it's mostly imaginary and has more to do with poor social skills.

 

+1 here

 

When I have hosted an event, I made sure to talk to everybody--at least to say hello and thanks for coming. As the event progressed I made sure to talk to those who were not sitting with a group--if they are just hanging on the edge of a group and not participating in the conversation I may not notice that.

 

But if I'm not the host, I talk to whomever I want to--usually this is a person by him/herself because I do better in a one-on-one than in a group conversation (poor social skills ya know).

 

Mostly people talk to others that they know; that's just natural and it's not a "clique" at all, though it could look like it to someone who wants to see it that way. Cliques deliberately shut others out; all geocaching event group conversations that I have seen include newcomers. But if someone is going to sit apart and wait to be included, that's not likely to happen. The person who wants to be included has to make some effort to be included.

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Cliques, i see just about every time i go to an event. Like someone mentioned, most are good friends that want to talk with each other. I don't think they're trying to be snobby on purpose but for a new comer or someone shy, i'm sure they aren't fun to encounter. I've always enjoyed fun events and make sure to visit with everyone, especially new people.

 

As far as knowing who's premium and who's not, most of the time i have no idea. Can't remember it ever being brought up at an event. I've never known anyone to buy premium membership in order to feel superior or for bragging rights.

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Cliques, i see just about every time i go to an event. Like someone mentioned, most are good friends that want to talk with each other. I don't think they're trying to be snobby on purpose but for a new comer or someone shy, i'm sure they aren't fun to encounter. I've always enjoyed fun events and make sure to visit with everyone, especially new people.

 

As far as knowing who's premium and who's not, most of the time i have no idea. Can't remember it ever being brought up at an event. I've never known anyone to buy premium membership in order to feel superior or for bragging rights.

 

That's not a clique. That's just people talking to each other. Yes, social events can be a challenge for shy or introverted people, but that doesn't mean that friends talking to each other are cliques.

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I think of premium mambership as a tool of the trade. Sure, you can cache as a basic member, but being able to run PQs and search filters makes it easier to get outside and enjoy the game.

 

About the fees... there's a part of me that sees GS as a bunch of guys that had an idea, set up a server in the basement and write a DB, then watched the money roll in. I'm sure it's different, but I sometimes think that it's progressed from there. Also - additional members do not cost the same additional resources to support - basically adding a $30-45 user or the system doesn't incur an additional $30-45 in support costs. Adding 1000-10000 new users will obviously add infrastructure and support costs, but they're taking in a boatload more money. They're also selling a heck of a lot more dog tags and coins etc... I think that GS was an early adopter of a "disruptive technology" and has a pretty good thing going. Do I fault them? Nope...

 

I've seen a lot of complaints by PM about being PMs. I haven't, myself, noticed anything wrong and have no real complaints about the way GS has treated me. They're probably more active in parts of GC than I am. Well, I'd love to see virtuals come back, but that's a dead horse.

 

If (the editorial) you want to remain a basic and can cache comfortably, fine, remain basic.

 

Personally, I like the added benefits that my $30 buys me. Heck I lose more change in my couch during the year...

 

No puppies were kicked in the production of this forum post...

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Concerning the "cliques" at events. Personally, I don't get comfortable with groups of people until I've known them for a while. So if I'm somewhere with a familiar group of people, I guess I'd fall into the "clique" category. But if I'm new to a group, I'm certainly an outsider...

 

I went to an event in MD last month. I knew now on, so I pretty much ended up at the end of a table eating and reading email. Fortunately a couple of the established members came over and started asking questions etc... soon, I was involved in other conversations.

 

So - while it may be the new guy's introversion, I Hinkle that the group should make that extra effort. They're already comfortable. The new guy isn't...

 

No puppies kicked....

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We recently received a notice about a New Year event being held at a local restaurant.  My first impulse, we should go. 

Then I thought back to many other events we attended and recalled just standing around then trying to join the conversation with some attendees that looked familiar. The last event we attended I mentioned to the host that it would be nice if everyone introduced themselves as there were a few we did not recognize. I was told, "Oh, everyone knows each other." Feeling a little foolish, we very soon left the event. 

At least in our experience, it is difficult to fit in when you are treated as an outsider.  We attended at least 8 local events unfortunately results were the same.

We will not attend the upcoming event. 

 

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