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FTF logging rules - ubused notes

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5 minutes ago, niraD said:

How did they find the cache container (even accidentally) and sign the log if they did not visit the coordinates where the cache was located?

Because they were family & friends and were told, even helped them hide it probably.  Like you said, then they can not sign the online log.

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10 minutes ago, niraD said:

How did they find the cache container (even accidentally) and sign the log if they did not visit the coordinates where the cache was located?

 

Many caches are far off from the GZ. It is quite possible that you can find and sign a cache without visiting the coordinates.

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, HunterandSamuel said:

Because they were family & friends and were told, even helped them hide it probably.  Like you said, then they can not sign the online log.

 

I think that nidaD meant a case where the logbook was signed before the cache was hidden. In that case it is possible that the player has not visited the coordinates at all.

Edited by arisoft
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12 minutes ago, arisoft said:

Interesting loophole. You know that finding geocaches is not allowed theme for an event.

 

Sure, but actually the guideline is "Cannot be set up for the sole purpose of finding geocaches."

The events are as usual, a meeting of folks to talk about the hobby. 

  They get an "Attended" for the event.  What they do afterwards is up to them.   :)

I usually wait a day or two, so I'm not "waiting-in-A-line..." to sign logs...

 

We did a scavenger hunt-like event with others, with prizes for time. Takes all day.   The event's afterwards. 

There's one in a state nearby (we attended a couple) that has folks caching in the snow before the event that's held at a pub.

 One doesn't have to participate in either to get the "attended" for the event itself.

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1 minute ago, arisoft said:

 

This is simple. When you feel that you got FTF then it is FTF for you.

 

Here, where I live, we use a different tag for finds made before the cache has been accepted for publication but there is no rule. You can do what you want.

Yes, I understand this and why I logged FTF when there were already signatures on the log sheet dated before the cache was published and before it was even submitted to be published. They still didn't log it online so I think they did it for the joy of it, it is obvious to me it's family of the CO because the signatures are full names and a few first names and are not geocaching.com members. But what if they weren't non-members...who gets the first to find although we signed it soon after being published and they signed it before it was even submitted for publication?  I know the answer though, for me. lol  

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7 minutes ago, HunterandSamuel said:

See, I don't understand how one can be FTF on geocaching.com when a cache hasn't even been published yet. Or even submitted yet. But I guess this is okay and proper. Did he log it online after it was published? 

 

He found the cache.  He signed the log.  He logged on-line.  It is a valid find.  And he was the First to Find it!

I think I'm up to ten multis where I could not find the first stage, but I did find the final.  Signed log.  Logged on-line.  Valid finds.

Then there was the cache owner I spotted hiding a cache.  We said Hi, and wandered off finding more caches.  Then we went back, found the cache and signed the log.  The CO came back, moved the cache, changed the puzzle, and tore the page out of the log book.  When I logged it on-line, he deleted my find.  I had not found the cache.  (Guess I shouldn't have logged the TB?)

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Yes,  You are.  You are insisting the coords can only be visited after publication.  If they visited the cache and signed the log, then they visited the coords.

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22 minutes ago, arisoft said:

 

a) What are these numbers? How did you get them?

b) How do you know that you have visited these coordinates?

You asked me a question. I answered. Reread. 

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Just now, Harry Dolphin said:

Yes,  You are.  You are insisting the coords can only be visited after publication.  If they visited the cache and signed the log, then they visited the coords.

I'm going by geocaching.com rules. 

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9 minutes ago, arisoft said:

 

I think that nidaD meant a case where the logbook was signed before the cache was hidden. In that case it is possible that the player has not visited the coordinates at all.

This is nidad's post that I responded to and I said...bingo:   "If the CO handed them the cache and the log, then the signature means nothing."

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2 minutes ago, HunterandSamuel said:
22 minutes ago, niraD said:

Now you're adding requirements beyond "visit the coordinates".

No I'm not. 

You seem to be arguing for:

 

You can log caches online as "Found" after you visited the coordinates that are posted in a published geocache to help find a cache and signed the logbook.

 

That is not the same thing as:

 

You can log caches online as "Found" after you visited the coordinates and signed the logbook.

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1 minute ago, HunterandSamuel said:

I'm going by geocaching.com rules. 

 

No.  You aren't.  You are creating a new rule.  Where does it say that the coords have to be published first?

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Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, HunterandSamuel said:

 

Okay. Coordinates that are posted in a published geocache to help find a cache. A requirement. For example: N 42° 02.653 W 072° 31.402

 

What about puzzle caches where the published coordinates are bogus? There's no requirement to visit those (sometimes they're in the sea so that would be difficult even if you wanted to), nor is there any requirement to solve the published puzzle to figure out the cache's coordinates. I've had a couple of people find one of my puzzle caches without solving the puzzle, instead they used clues like trailhead waypoints and national park boundaries to figure out a likely area then looked for something that matched the hint. They visited the place where the cache is hidden (which I'm pretty sure is the intent of that guideline you keep quoting) and signed the logbook, and had they been the first to do so they would have legitimately been FTF.

Edited by barefootjeff
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Just now, niraD said:

You seem to be arguing for:

 

You can log caches online as "Found" after you visited the coordinates that are posted in a published geocache to help find a cache and signed the logbook.

 

That is not the same thing as:

 

You can log caches online as "Found" after you visited the coordinates and signed the logbook.

Well, yeah. Try to remember...this discussion is about geocaching.com and not other geocaching sites. 

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1 minute ago, HunterandSamuel said:

You asked me a question. I answered. Reread

 

I did'n find answers to these questions. You are free to refer these answers if I missed them.

 

8 minutes ago, HunterandSamuel said:

But what if they weren't non-members...who gets the first to find although we signed it soon after being published and they signed it before it was even submitted for publication?

 

Everybody who writes the FTF tag in the find-it log will get FTF.  It is possible to have multiple FTF tags in a single cache. See this example and count how many times there is FTF

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2 minutes ago, Harry Dolphin said:

 

No.  You aren't.  You are creating a new rule.  Where does it say that the coords have to be published first?

Nope, not creating a new rule. I think what I have been trying to say is going over your head or you just aren't understanding. 

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1 minute ago, arisoft said:

I did'n find answers to these questions. You are free to refer these answers if I missed them.

I'll try to find them for you. So many posts, so little time. 

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, HunterandSamuel said:

Well, yeah. Try to remember...this discussion is about geocaching.com and not other geocaching sites. 

I thought it was about geocaches and the people who find them (first or otherwise).

Edited by niraD
clarity
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2 minutes ago, arisoft said:

Everybody who writes the FTF tag in the find-it log will get FTF.  

Ah, no one wrote FTF although there were signatures, and noone wrote it online. Thanks. After 200 posts I finally get an answer. 

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Just now, niraD said:

I thought it was about geocaches and the people who find them.

Quote

 

No. I thought I made that clear. Over and over. 

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Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, HunterandSamuel said:

Ah, no one wrote FTF although there were signatures, and noone wrote it online. Thanks. After 200 posts I finally get an answer. 

 

To get FTF there is  no requirements to find the cache, visit coordinates or sign the log. There is absolutely no rules for FTF.

Edited by arisoft

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9 minutes ago, barefootjeff said:

What about puzzle caches where the published coordinates are bogus?

I have no idea and not my concern. I'm talking about traditional caches. 

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2 minutes ago, arisoft said:

 

To get FTF there is  no requirements to find the cache, visit coordinates or sign the log. There is absolutely no rules for FTF.

I know there are no rules for FTF. 

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7 minutes ago, niraD said:

I thought it was about geocaches and the people who find them (first or otherwise).

On geocaching.com

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16 minutes ago, arisoft said:

I did'n find answers to these questions. You are free to refer these answers if I missed them.

You ask :
  59 minutes ago, arisoft said:

 

I think that there is no dispute wether the logbook is signed or not. Could you explain what coordinates are and how do you visit coordinates? That may help us to understand each others.

 

I answered; Okay. Coordinates that are posted in a published geocache to help find a cache. A requirement. For example: N 42° 02.653 W 072° 31.402

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11 minutes ago, HunterandSamuel said:
You ask :
  59 minutes ago, arisoft said:

 

I think that there is no dispute wether the logbook is signed or not. Could you explain what coordinates are and how do you visit coordinates? That may help us to understand each others.

 

I answered; Okay. Coordinates that are posted in a published geocache to help find a cache. A requirement. For example: N 42° 02.653 W 072° 31.402

 

They are required for hiding the cache.  Not for finding the cache.

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3 minutes ago, Harry Dolphin said:

 

They are required for hiding the cache.  Not for finding the cache.

They are used to find a cache. We use them for finding caches. How else can a gps find a cache? 

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I'm still trying to get my head around what exactly your problem is, but I think you found a newly published cache and thought you were FTF but there were other signatures in the logbook dated prior to publication but who you don't think are geocachers. My advice would be to contact the CO and ask about those signatures. It won't hurt and it might set your mind at ease.

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Is anyone else feeling like there's some kind of AI software test going on here? :rolleyes:

 

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Posted (edited)
37 minutes ago, HunterandSamuel said:
You ask :
  59 minutes ago, arisoft said:

 

I think that there is no dispute wether the logbook is signed or not. Could you explain what coordinates are and how do you visit coordinates? That may help us to understand each others.

 

I answered; Okay. Coordinates that are posted in a published geocache to help find a cache. A requirement. For example: N 42° 02.653 W 072° 31.402

 

This is not an answer to any of my questions. You can find the answer to the first question here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coordinate_system

 

But how do you know that you have visited coordinates? Coordinates are not only a place on the cache description. Visiting coordinates does not mean that you visit on the cache page and see coordinates here. Visiting coordinates mean that you move yourself to a location that match those coordinates.

Edited by arisoft
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9 minutes ago, arisoft said:

This is not an answer to any of my questions. Y

I explained what coordinates are. But my mistake...not how I visit coords. By using my geocache app, they bring me to the cache. That's using coords. Also, beforehand, I copy & paste the coords and google map them. That gives me a better sense where the cache is hidden. 

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13 minutes ago, arisoft said:

But how do you know that you have visited coordinates? Coordinates are not only a place on the cache description. Visiting coordinates does not mean that you visit on the cache page and see coordinates here. Visiting coordinates mean that you move yourself to a location that match those coordinates.

Yup. Coords that were gotten off a published cache. 

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29 minutes ago, barefootjeff said:

I'm still trying to get my head around what exactly your problem is, but I think you found a newly published cache and thought you were FTF but there were other signatures in the logbook dated prior to publication but who you don't think are geocachers. My advice would be to contact the CO and ask about those signatures. It won't hurt and it might set your mind at ease.

Read my irk on the irk thread. I was brought to this thread by another member on that thread who thought it would be helpful. 

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3 minutes ago, HunterandSamuel said:
18 minutes ago, arisoft said:

But how do you know that you have visited coordinates? Coordinates are not only a place on the cache description. Visiting coordinates does not mean that you visit on the cache page and see coordinates here. Visiting coordinates mean that you move yourself to a location that match those coordinates.

Yup. Coords that were gotten off a published cache

Fixed it for you...

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30 minutes ago, on4bam said:

Is anyone else feeling like there's some kind of AI software test going on here? :rolleyes:

 

Again, I was brought to this thread by a kind member on the irk thread who thought it would be helpful for me. 

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1 minute ago, niraD said:

Fixed it for you...up. Coords that were gotten off a published cache

Fixed it for you. Coords that were gotten off a published cache. 

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18 minutes ago, HunterandSamuel said:
21 minutes ago, niraD said:

Fixed it for you...up. Coords that were gotten off a published cache

Fixed it for you. Coords that were gotten off a published cache. 

tenor.gif

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3 minutes ago, niraD said:

tenor.gif

I can get more catty than you, nira, but will not lower myself to that level. This forum is better than that. 

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28 minutes ago, HunterandSamuel said:

Fixed it for you. Coords that were gotten off a published cache. 

 

As you cited: 

Quote

"Found It: You can log caches online as "Found" after you visited the coordinates and signed the logbook. You can also add a photo or a Favorite point to your online log."

 

The guideline is 'visit the coordinates'.  Not that they have to be gotten off a published cache.  Why do you insist the cache must have been published first?  It does NOT say that.

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36 minutes ago, HunterandSamuel said:

I explained what coordinates are. But my mistake...

 

Sorry, you explained where you can see coordinates, but you didn't explain what they are or what they mean. I think that you believe that coordinates are some kind of code that must be entered to your App to find the cache. That could explain why you think that coordinates are something that belongs to geocaching.com only.

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36 minutes ago, HunterandSamuel said:
1 hour ago, barefootjeff said:

I'm still trying to get my head around what exactly your problem is, but I think you found a newly published cache and thought you were FTF but there were other signatures in the logbook dated prior to publication but who you don't think are geocachers. My advice would be to contact the CO and ask about those signatures. It won't hurt and it might set your mind at ease.

Read my irk on the irk thread. I was brought to this thread by another member on that thread who thought it would be helpful. 

 

Okay, so I went back however many pages in that thread and found your first post, and yes, it looks pretty much as I surmised. So my advice still stands: contact the CO, explain the situation and ask them about those signatures. Were they intended to be official finds or just a bit of fun for their kids? The easiest way to solve things like this is to talk to those involved.

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I just want to say...I have learned so much on this forum about geocaching, it has improved my husband's and my geocaching experiences. I have listened & learned and have also admitted when I was wrong or misunderstood another cacher's sincere message. Thank you for this.  But like every other forum...it has its cliques, you know...a group who bands together. I suspect many newcomers are scared off by this. Sad. 

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5 minutes ago, Harry Dolphin said:

 

As you cited: 

 

The guideline is 'visit the coordinates'.  Not that they have to be gotten off a published cache.  Why do you insist the cache must have been published first?  It does NOT say that.

I'm not insisting anything. I'm giving my opinion and what I think. That's allowed here, right? 

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4 minutes ago, HunterandSamuel said:

it has its cliques, you know...a group who bands together

 

Usually we argue fiercely with each other. It is rare for us to agree very much on this. :)

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8 minutes ago, arisoft said:

 

Sorry, you explained where you can see coordinates, but you didn't explain what they are or what they mean. I think that you believe that coordinates are some kind of code that must be entered to your App to find the cache. That could explain why you think that coordinates are something that belongs to geocaching.com only.

I certainly did explain what coords are. And they are not some kind of "code". Ridiculous. 

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1 minute ago, HunterandSamuel said:

I'm not insisting anything. I'm giving my opinion and what I think. That's allowed here, right? 

 

I respect your opinion and, as already agreed, you can use it to justify your FTF - no problems.

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2 minutes ago, arisoft said:

 

Usually we argue fiercely with each other. It is rare for us to agree very much on this. :)

Ah, but you are the one who said it's fine with logging a FTF in my case. As for you all agreeing together, a rarity...this brings happiness to my heart. I'm glad to help bring your group together. 

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1 minute ago, arisoft said:

 

I respect your opinion and, as already agreed, you can use it to justify your FTF - no problems.

Again, thanks. 

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13 minutes ago, barefootjeff said:

 

Okay, so I went back however many pages in that thread and found your first post, and yes, it looks pretty much as I surmised. So my advice still stands: contact the CO, explain the situation and ask them about those signatures. Were they intended to be official finds or just a bit of fun for their kids? The easiest way to solve things like this is to talk to those involved.

So far there is no need to contact the CO. No additional finds were logged. 

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