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AleksSI

FTF logging rules - ubused notes

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Let look other case. We have lets say new trail with 10 geocaches. One geocacher FTF first 5 of them, he did't find others. Proper logged I can check easily from GC web site. With Write note logs I must check them 10 manually.

What I consider important here is that there's no difference between your case, where you fail to hear about the FTF at home, and the case where you're on the trail 5 minutes behind the cacher getting the FTFs. If the FTFer is finding the cache as you're walking to GZ, it's impossible for you to learn that you're not going to get FTF. If your day is thus ruined, I'd say it's because you're seeking FTFs, not because you didn't hear about the FTFer in front of you on the trail.

 

I'm a big fan of the FTF game, so I encourage anyone that likes the sound of it to try it. But if you don't enjoy the cache even when you fail to get the FTF, I claim you've lost track of what matters.

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Dprovan, you missed my point.

 

But I will follow your point. I have about 5 min advantage, because I have SMS Instant notification. Emails are usually read with delay. Should I spend this time making my bookmarks, because GC services with Note logs are useless?

When I'm on trail, my day is not ruined if somebody is ahead of me. I'll enjoy the nature. My day will spoil geocacher with wrong log type, because otherwise I would't hurry any more if I would easily check geocache status on trail and not every single geocache.

 

I can turn your claims upside down. I hope geocachers are not using Note type log intentionally, to disable GC services, when they are on FTF hunt.

Edited by AleksSI

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Once posted, delete the temp Found It log, and all is well.

If you do it ten times you have lost a whole FP.

I honestly don't care about 1/10 of a favourite point I can hand out. I have hundreds. So for me that is a non-issue.

Even so, I don't get this 1/10 point loss thing...

 

To my understanding, this can only work in that if you post the find log, we know you're now one Find closer to another Fav point you can award (10 per point). If you delete the Find log, I assum then you must lose the 1/10 point you just earned, somewhere along the line, so that if you post another Find log, you don't earn it back for the same cache.

 

However it works, again, for me, is irrelevant. But if you do care about every 1/10 of a point towards another to reward, then deleting a temp Find log and posting a new one is not the strategy for you, and posting the Note instead would be more appropriate.

 

It's really not that important an issue, imo.

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. But if you do care about every 1/10 of a point towards another to reward, then deleting a temp Find log and posting a new one is not the strategy for you, and posting the Note instead would be more appropriate.

 

It's really not that important an issue, imo.

 

As a basic member I do not have FPs at all. I just thought that the FP issue should be mentioned here - people might otherwise be confused when they see how they lose FPs and do not understand why.

 

Whether or not it affects someone depends on the specific situation of the cacher. A local cacher has 622 finds so far (he mainly cares about more complex caches and does not log series caches except the bonus) among which 179 are FTF logs. He is needing all his FPs and could not afford losing them that easily.

 

Of course it should be possible to fix the FP issue, however like for many other bugs this seems to be one that stays forever.

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Dprovan, you missed my point.

 

But I will follow your point. I have about 5 min advantage, because I have SMS Instant notification. Emails are usually read with delay. Should I spend this time making my bookmarks, because GC services with Note logs are useless?

When I'm on trail, my day is not ruined if somebody is ahead of me. I'll enjoy the nature. My day will spoil geocacher with wrong log type, because otherwise I would't hurry any more if I would easily check geocache status on trail and not every single geocache.

 

I can turn your claims upside down. I hope geocachers are not using Note type log intentionally, to disable GC services, when they are on FTF hunt.

 

What I'm hearing is that you want other FTF hunters to adhere to your particular set of FTF rules, which is precisely why Groundspeak is all but silent on the subject.

 

FTF is not official and they leave it up ti the participants to play it however they see fit.

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Often on difficult multis or puzzles I'll post notes to let the CO and others attempting it know how I'm going.
I've done the same thing. On multi-stage caches that have taken me days to complete, I've posted Note logs detailing my progress.

 

It would be a shame to lose such a useful too just because some people who play the FTF side game disagree on how it should be played.

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To my understanding, this can only work in that if you post the find log, we know you're now one Find closer to another Fav point you can award (10 per point). If you delete the Find log, I assum then you must lose the 1/10 point you just earned, somewhere along the line, so that if you post another Find log, you don't earn it back for the same cache.
As I understand it, that's pretty much it. Only the first Find log you ever post to a cache can count towards your FP total. If you delete that Find log, then it doesn't count to your FP total. Later Find logs never count towards your FP total.

 

It seems like an unintended consequence of some sanity checking the system does to prevent awarding a FP when someone logs 10 Find logs on the same cache.

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There is a common practice, that FTFs are logged as a note (Write note type) instead as found (Found it). Wrong type usually remains for days.
So I take it that you'd prefer the FTF to log a field note (which is invisible to everyone else), and then use the field note to post a real FTF log later that day, or perhaps the next day, or later that week, when the FTF has access to a real keyboard...

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It would be a shame to lose such a useful too just because some people who play the FTF side game disagree on how it should be played.

 

My first log for a cache is a note also in the case when I drop off a trackable and also in the case when 4000 characters do not suffice for my log (then the first part which is posted last will become the find it log while the earlier part(s) end(s) up as note.)

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I'll always use Found it log type on FTF, because I consider any other option as non fair play. Later this doesn't matter.

I'm also convinsed that Groudspeak makes damage to the game, because they refuse to make clear game rules.

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I'll always use Found it log type on FTF, because I consider any other option as non fair play.

 

´Would you be more happy about a FTF found it log many hours or even days later?

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I'm also convinsed that Groudspeak makes damage to the game, because they refuse to make clear game rules.
To be clear, in this case, is "the game" that you think Groundspeak is damaging the game of geocaching itself, or is "the game" that you think Groundspeak is damaging the FTF side game that "is not officially recognized"? Edited by niraD

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´Would you be more happy about a FTF found it log many hours or even days later?

 

No, that would be very unfair. Logging with note is like, I've done it for myself, others you can dig for a data after myself. That's a smaller resignation from sports spirit among us.

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´Would you be more happy about a FTF found it log many hours or even days later?
No, that would be very unfair. Logging with note is like, I've done it for myself, others you can dig for a data after myself. That's a smaller resignation from sports spirit among us.
So what do you think should happen when the FTF uses a handheld GPSr instead of a smartphone? Or uses a smartphone but doesn't have a data connection?

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To be clear, in this case, is "the game" that you think Groundspeak is damaging the game of geocaching itself, or is "the game" that you think Groundspeak is damaging the FTF side game that "is not officially recognized"?

 

FTF is a part of geocaching game, if Groundspeak that admits or not. If they leave this area without clear rules, this can not help to the popularity of the game.

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So what do you think should happen when the FTF uses a handheld GPSr instead of a smartphone? Or uses a smartphone but doesn't have a data connection?

 

I think that's actual reason for a diferent practice and views among us. I personally use smartphone and external GPS device in poor GPS coverage. Because of that I'm frustrated, because I cant't use functionalities which smartphone offers.

Nowadays prices for a data connestions dropped on a reasonable level and geocachers without that are very rare. Few years ago i knew geocachers without data connection, today none. Technology changes practice. If rules doesn't folow practice problems begin to raise. I personaly would not FTF, if I would not be able to make online notification that geocache is already been found.

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So what do you think should happen when the FTF uses a handheld GPSr instead of a smartphone? Or uses a smartphone but doesn't have a data connection?

 

I think that's actual reason for a diferent practice and views among us. I personally use smartphone and external GPS device in poor GPS coverage. Because of that I'm frustrated, because I cant't use functionalities which smartphone offers.

Nowadays prices for a data connestions dropped on a reasonable level and geocachers without that are very rare. Few years ago i knew geocachers without data connection, today none. Technology changes practice. If rules doesn't folow practice problems begin to raise. I personaly would not FTF, if I would not be able to make online notification that geocache is already been found.

Seven of my 26 hides are in places with no mobile data coverage, so FTFs on those couldn't have been logged immediately. Pretty much anywhere that's outside our major towns and cities and away from the main highways will have no coverage unless it's on high ground overlooking such places.

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We must distinguish between objective and subjective circumstances. In this 7 hides I would log immediately after I reach data coverage. Our topic is about objective or subjective reason for using Found it or Write note FTF log.

Edited by AleksSI

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We must distinguish between objective and subjective circumstances. In this 7 hides I would log immediately after I reach data coverage. Our topic is about objective or subjective reason for using Found it or Write note FTF log.

 

Is that objective or subjective or subjective?

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What is out of our will, that's objective circumstance.If I choose to use Write note and not Fount it log, that's my subjective decision.

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´Would you be more happy about a FTF found it log many hours or even days later?

 

No, that would be very unfair. Logging with note is like, I've done it for myself, others you can dig for a data after myself. That's a smaller resignation from sports spirit among us.

 

So you are saying that someone who cannot log from the field is not allowed to find a cache as first one?

I do not even own a smartphone - so whether data coverage is available or not does not change anything for me.

I'm not an FTF hunter but always being in need of nice hiking caches to go for it could happen that I go for an unfound cache. In case of a cache that requires a hike of a few hours it will not help you anyway if someone logs a find as you will have started anyway.

 

Do you really think that you can dictate cachers that are much longer into geocaching than yourself that they need to buy new equipment just to please you or to leave geocaching? Without some of these people geocaching would not exist today.

Edited by cezanne

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So you are saying that someone who cannot log from the field is not allowed to find a cache as first one?

I do not even own a smartphone - so whether data coverage is available or not does not change anything for me.

I'm not an FTF hunter but always being in need of nice hiking caches to go for it could happen that I go for an unfound cache. In case of a cache that requires a hike of a few hours it will not help you anyway if someone logs a find as you will have started anyway.

 

No, I'm not sayint that at all. I've sad what I would do in a case where I can expect more FTF geocachers. If your objective circumstance is that you don't own a smartphone or you are using paper maps and compass, then your fair play is to log as soon as you get chance. Not logging at all we discussed is bigger problem for geocacher who like to FTF the same geocache than usage Write note log type.

 

I'm still not convinced which are objective reasons or advantage for using Write note log versus Found it.

Edited by AleksSI

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No, that would be very unfair. Logging with note is like, I've done it for myself, others you can dig for a data after myself. That's a smaller resignation from sports spirit among us.

 

So you are saying that someone who cannot log from the field is not allowed to find a cache as first one?

I do not even own a smartphone - so whether data coverage is available or not does not change anything for me.

I'm not an FTF hunter but always being in need of nice hiking caches to go for it could happen that I go for an unfound cache. In case of a cache that requires a hike of a few hours it will not help you anyway if someone logs a find as you will have started anyway.

 

Do you really think that you can dictate cachers that are much longer into geocaching than yourself that they need to buy new equipment just to please you or to leave geocaching? Without some of these people geocaching would not exist today.

 

We also do not own smartphones, but we do go after the occasional FTF.

A few years ago, half of us were going on a trip. We saw an FTF opportunity come up while getting ready to leave. Even though the cache was a fair distance from home, the cache was found with a blank log, signed, replaced, and eventually (3 or 4 days later as there was no way for us to log the cache on the trip) logged online. The fall-out of the entire affair - congratulations on the FTF from the STF, more or less because of the distance involved. No rancor or bad feelings.

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Do you really think that you can dictate cachers that are much longer into geocaching than yourself that they need to buy new equipment just to please you or to leave geocaching? Without some of these people geocaching would not exist today.

 

I've missed that. If you have feeling that I dictate, please except my deepest and truly apology. I did't write a single word for such conclusion. I respect all other geocachers, especially experienced. On other hand I don't except patronizing. My only intention is to exchange arguments and opinions.

Edited by AleksSI

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Do you really think that you can dictate cachers that are much longer into geocaching than yourself that they need to buy new equipment just to please you or to leave geocaching? Without some of these people geocaching would not exist today.

 

I've missed that. If you have feeling that I dictate, please except my deepest and truly apology. I did't write a single word for such conclusion. I respect all other geocachers, especially experienced. On other hand I don't except patronizing. My only intention is to exchange arguments and opinions.

 

I only added my comment because you wrote about the requirement to adapt to changing technology.

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But not in the manner, that you need to buy or use new equipment. Only to except fact, that those who using new technology would like to benefit from it. And that only means use the right tool (log type), which is intended to use anyway. That simply means, that we respect each other. If you are not able to log cache half or one day I'll understand. If you will make simple check for me whether cache already has FTF or not, I'll know you care about geocahing fellows.

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I had the occasion to meet the local FTF hound while attempting the FTF on a new cache nearby. He has a very specific routine when he makes a FTF - write his name at the top of the log with a box around it, so that nobody can write their name above his; take a picture of the log; and immediately post a short NOTE on the cache listing to let others know that he found it. Apparently he had some issues with some cachers at one time who were irritated that he was scooping up so many FTFs. I asked him why post a 'Note' instead of a 'Found' log. His response was that if he posted a short 'Found' log and edited it later, his log would be appended with an "Edited..." note at the bottom of his log, which he did not like.

 

As others have stated, the rules only require that a finder signs the physical log book in the cache. Online logging is completely optional and only a courtesy. There is no app in the world that is going to alert you when the log book gets signed.

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His response was that if he posted a short 'Found' log and edited it later, his log would be appended with an "Edited..." note at the bottom of his log, which he did not like.

 

I'm glad to read one subjective argument, which I can understand. But, I again tested changing one my FTF log. There is no trace about editing at the log. There is Last Updated: 3 minutes ago on 03/07/2017 05:33:37 (UTC-08:00) Pacific Time (US & Canada) (13:33 GMT) at the very bottom. Nobody else can define where change has happened. Maybe at that time editing left the trace.

Edited by AleksSI

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His response was that if he posted a short 'Found' log and edited it later, his log would be appended with an "Edited..." note at the bottom of his log, which he did not like.

 

I'm glad to read one subjective argument, which I can understand. But, I again tested changing one my FTF log. There is no trace about editing at the log. There is Last Updated: 3 minutes ago on 03/07/2017 05:33:37 (UTC-08:00) Pacific Time (US & Canada) (13:33 GMT) at the very bottom. Nobody else can define where change has happened. Maybe at that time editing left the trace.

 

Log edits are no longer recorded in the form of the caption which used to be automatically added by Groundspeak.

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But not in the manner, that you need to buy or use new equipment. Only to except fact, that those who using new technology would like to benefit from it. And that only means use the right tool (log type), which is intended to use anyway. That simply means, that we respect each other. If you are not able to log cache half or one day I'll understand. If you will make simple check for me whether cache already has FTF or not, I'll know you care about geocahing fellows.

 

People who care about other geocachers don't invent arbitrary rules and don't impose cumbersome processes based on inconsequential personal preferences and side games.

 

FTF is an unsanctioned side game. Play at your own risk and don't expect others to play the way you want them to.

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I'm not inventing rules. I'm not expecting from others to play by my way. I'm discussing with others geocaching aspects on this forum. I'm explaining my view. That is the purpose why this forum exists. I think there is nothing wrong with that.

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But not in the manner, that you need to buy or use new equipment. Only to except fact, that those who using new technology would like to benefit from it.

 

You wrote in another post that Groundspeak needs to adapt their rules to changing technology. This however would have an effect on those using old equipment.

 

You cannot come up with any approach regarding logging FTFs which inconveniences noone.

 

While you do not like FTF information via notes, others are angry about edited found it logs they are not notified about and others do not want to use the approach to

log a short found it first and then delete it and relog a longer found it log later as they lose FPs in this manner. You cannot make everyone happy. With every approach you use

you will make some cachers happy and some unhappy. That's it.

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I'm not inventing rules. I'm not expecting from others to play by my way. I'm discussing with others geocaching aspects on this forum. I'm explaining my view. That is the purpose why this forum exists. I think there is nothing wrong with that.

 

You did open by naming other FTF'ers as lazy because they don't play the game the way you want them to.

 

That was pretty poor.

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Hmmm....I've got an idea. How about when you get to gz, and you open the log book and there is already someone signed in at the top of the logbook/sheet, your ARE NOT FTF. That seems objective to me. Let's just put aside all the technological conveniences for a minute and go caching.

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I'm not inventing rules. I'm not expecting from others to play by my way. I'm discussing with others geocaching aspects on this forum. I'm explaining my view. That is the purpose why this forum exists. I think there is nothing wrong with that.

 

Sure, and the forum also exists so other geocachers can comment.

 

The original post called other geocachers "lazy" for not adhering to your preferences, and ended with a proposal for a senseless new rule meant to force people to play the way you want them to. Now there are comments about what people should do to show you they "care" about other geocachers. If you're interested in caring about other geocachers, not calling them lazy over a side game might be a good start.

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´Would you be more happy about a FTF found it log many hours or even days later?

 

No, that would be very unfair. Logging with note is like, I've done it for myself, others you can dig for a data after myself. That's a smaller resignation from sports spirit among us.

 

Every time I see comments like this I automatically add one hour to the time it takes me to post my Found It when I am FTF.

 

Life isn't fair. Get over it.

 

What's laughable is the length of this topic.

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Sure, and the forum also exists so other geocachers can comment.

 

I newer opposed that.

 

Sure, and the forum also exists so other geocachers can comment.

 

The original post called other geocachers "lazy" for not adhering to your preferences, and ended with a proposal for a senseless new rule meant to force people to play the way you want them to. Now there are comments about what people should do to show you they "care" about other geocachers. If you're interested in caring about other geocachers, not calling them lazy over a side game might be a good start.

 

Word lazy was truly improper. I'm sorry. For people like me senseless is something different than for you. I'm not forcing nobody.

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You cannot make everyone happy. With every approach you use

you will make some cachers happy and some unhappy. That's it.

 

I'm aware of that. I hope my different voice will not lead to disqualification at the end of topics, because we don't have no more arguments to exchange.

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Hey AleksSI. I think part of the issue is a SLIGHT language barrier, but I think I understand your concern.

 

I LOVE the FTF game and participate in it. In OUR area, there was a bit of an attitude for a while from some FTFers where people would not post ANY log, then a few hours later someone would come along hoping for FTF only to see someone else had gotten there first. This led to some really hurt feelings. I was a part of that and a group of us decided that we would always log our finds as soon as we could, either by smartphone or online as soon as we got home. Other people still thought it was funny to wait and see the other FTF hounds hurt, but most of us followed this new unwritten rule.

 

Soon, people were posting quick found it notes about, "FTF - more later!" Well, then we would have this awesome story to tell about the cache, the experience, etc... and when we would go to events, no one had read about that experience... not even the cache owners. Why? Because The found it log was edited and no one received any email notifications. So we tried posting a found it log, then later writing a note. Some people don't want to read notes. It became a bit of an annoying problem.

 

Then one day someone posted a note saying, "FTF - more later!" Then later they posted a found it note that was excellent and people read it. Everyone agreed this was the best solution (well - everyone who was trying to be kind - some people continued to hide FTF until someone posted they were not FTF.)

 

Now, whenever I have a chance at an FTF, I quickly click on the link to see what the cache is like, will I have time to complete it, etc. I then click "follow" so that I get notifications whether a note or a log is posted, and then I quickly scroll down to see if anyone has posted a note yet. This costs me about 10 - 15 seconds. If I lose an FTF over 10 - 15 seconds, the person who beat me to it is probably being a jerk, anyway - and regardless, it saves me the frustration you are experiencing.

 

As far as Groundspeak is concerned - I agree with everyone here. I don't see ANY solution Groundspeak can provide that would make things better for everyone. The ONLY thing (maybe) would be to allow the option for people to receive notifications for edited logs - but even that might get annoying - I have no idea how often people edit to correct a misspelling or something trivial. I honestly don't WANT Groundspeak concerned with the side game... there are too many subjective issues and feelings that have nothing to do with the actual primary purpose of Geocaching.

 

I've learned that when I write this much most people ignore over half of it, so here you go:

 

TL;DR - In our community FTF people write notes to keep people from being hurt, not to hide that we found it. I check the logs every time I go for an FTF looking for these notes - it doesn't take that long. I don't think Groundspeak should be involved AT ALL in the FTF side game.

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I don't see ANY solution Groundspeak can provide that would make things better for everyone.

 

Not for everyone but I guess that fixing the issue with FPs when found it logs are deleted and complete versions are uploaded later would be appreciated by many, including myself.

I very often get logs "Found - more later" when it is not at all about FTFs. Actually this has become the most common log I get nowadays.

I would not want to be notified for every small edit of a log and thus also what project-gc offers to paying members is not what I'm looking for.

 

I'm aware however of the fact this procedure only helps those who either do not care about the order of their logs for a cache day or want to replace all logs by a more detailed one but still that's a considerable number of cachers anyway.

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I don't see ANY solution Groundspeak can provide that would make things better for everyone.

 

Not for everyone but I guess that fixing the issue with FPs when found it logs are deleted and complete versions are uploaded later would be appreciated by many, including myself.

I very often get logs "Found - more later" when it is not at all about FTFs. Actually this has become the most common log I get nowadays.

I would not want to be notified for every small edit of a log and thus also what project-gc offers to paying members is not what I'm looking for.

 

I'm aware however of the fact this procedure only helps those who either do not care about the order of their logs for a cache day or want to replace all logs by a more detailed one but still that's a considerable number of cachers anyway.

Excellent points. I wasn't thinking about code corrections... I was only referring to changes or rule additions that would "fix" this problem. You are correct, fixing questionable UI/UX would be something Groundspeak (are they still calling themselves Groundspeak?) could do.

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I'm not forcing nobody.

I thought your proposal was to force people not to post notes.

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KBLAST, yes, there is slight language barrier, because I'm not native English speaker. I appreciate your contribution in which there is no trace of emotion.

 

At the end I would like to make a summary for pros and cons about using note for FTF. In my community there were also sparks about this topics. Actally, I would like to understand this phenomenon.

 

first draft:

For note:

- people wants their Found log is distributed, if they edit FTF Found log, there is no distribution

- if Found log is deleted (replaced) FP point is lost

 

Against note:

- new gaocaches list on geocaching.com web site is useless

- application which monitors new caches are useless

- potential FTF geocachers must read logs

Edited by AleksSI

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- application which monitors new caches are useless

- potential FTF geocachers must read logs

 

Not true. It depends on how the applications monitors new caches and potential cachers can also let them notify. That works for found it logs just as well as for any log type.

 

Last year when a cache of mine got published in the evening of April 1 a cacher made a joke and wrote a found it log that he later deleted. He just wanted to shock others.

So a found it log does not mean "found it" anyhow.

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Sometimes the group of FTF-ers consists of several people, up to 10 or even more, in particular for night caches.

 

And this unfortunate practice of editing logs later has also carried over to logs which are not FTF logs.

I recently received 10 logs for the same cache on the same day by a group - 9 of which later got edited - that happened over days. very annoying for a cache owner and very difficult

to quickly become aware of spoilers.

 

That is not sometimes, but very common, that we have FTF group. Our fair play code gives right of first sign on top of logbook to the geocacher who is first on the parking or nearest to the cache before others joined. I do not know the case, that majority of the group would edit log.

 

You have a 'fair play code' in your group? That's a great idea.

To this highlighted point, why wouldn't the 'honor' go to the person in the group who actually spots it first, as opposed to the first person in the parking lot?

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Our fair play code gives right of first sign on top of logbook to the geocacher who is first on the parking or nearest to the cache before others joined.

This is interesting. And amazing. And a little unsettling to me.

 

It's fascinating that the FTF side game is taken so seriously in your area that a separate fair play code was even deemed necessary.

 

I rarely try to be first to find anymore. If it ever involves having to abide my additional rules, I will completely opt out.

 

Personally, my rules on FTF when there are more cachers around is simple. Only one person can be first. if it's me, it's me. If it ain't, it ain't. If I am the first person to find the cache, I will log it first and consider myself "FTF." If I am not, I don't care. (And if someone else claimed "co-FTF" on a cache I found first, I also don't care, because the only FTF list that even mildly interests me is my own.)

 

I say this not to disparage you or the other local cachers or what you're doing. I say it mostly to lend the perspective that not everyone takes this so seriously. I'll leave it to you to determine what weight, if any, to give that information.

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Sometimes the group of FTF-ers consists of several people, up to 10 or even more, in particular for night caches.

 

And this unfortunate practice of editing logs later has also carried over to logs which are not FTF logs.

I recently received 10 logs for the same cache on the same day by a group - 9 of which later got edited - that happened over days. very annoying for a cache owner and very difficult

to quickly become aware of spoilers.

 

That is not sometimes, but very common, that we have FTF group. Our fair play code gives right of first sign on top of logbook to the geocacher who is first on the parking or nearest to the cache before others joined. I do not know the case, that majority of the group would edit log.

 

You have a 'fair play code' in your group? That's a great idea.

To this highlighted point, why wouldn't the 'honor' go to the person in the group who actually spots it first, as opposed to the first person in the parking lot?

 

I think it's a great idea for people to agree on rules if they are going to compete with each other.

 

But geocaches are available to everyone, so it's not really reasonable to expect someone from outside of the defined group to adhere to, or even care about, those rules.

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Sometimes the group of FTF-ers consists of several people, up to 10 or even more, in particular for night caches.

 

And this unfortunate practice of editing logs later has also carried over to logs which are not FTF logs.

I recently received 10 logs for the same cache on the same day by a group - 9 of which later got edited - that happened over days. very annoying for a cache owner and very difficult

to quickly become aware of spoilers.

 

That is not sometimes, but very common, that we have FTF group. Our fair play code gives right of first sign on top of logbook to the geocacher who is first on the parking or nearest to the cache before others joined. I do not know the case, that majority of the group would edit log.

 

You have a 'fair play code' in your group? That's a great idea.

To this highlighted point, why wouldn't the 'honor' go to the person in the group who actually spots it first, as opposed to the first person in the parking lot?

 

I think it's a great idea for people to agree on rules if they are going to compete with each other.

 

But geocaches are available to everyone, so it's not really reasonable to expect someone from outside of the defined group to adhere to, or even care about, those rules.

 

If you're answering my comment (by virtue of the fact that you quoted my comment), I was only talking about the people in his group, playing together by their agreed-to rules, wondering why "the first in the parking lot" instead of the actual finder.

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Agreed there are no offical rules but many believe there are. Before I ever got a smartphone I had no way to log a FTF or even an note when I found 2 FTFs on my way to work. The logs of the finders were close to being abusive. What didn't make sense is they found it not long after I did so what was the big deal if they were going to be there anyway.

If you were after one on a hike with no reception you can't log til you are in service.

If they log a note and forget to change to a find that is their issue. I prefer to log as a find and add "FTF more to come" til I can get to do a proper log.

I recently found a FTF and some other cachers I knew showed up. I am not like some who are greedy and claim the FTF on my own. Some don't believe in co-FTFs but I see it as being a friendly gesture.

During some events some hand out FTFs as prizes.

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OMG! I'VE BEEN GETTING RIPPED OFF! I WANT MY CUT OF THE CASH PRIZE YOU CHEATING CO-FTF BASTARDS!

 

O please, do not scan my words with microscope. At least not those, which are out of topics. I do not understand why people get upset.

You got wrong impression. If we know that other geocachers are behind us, we always wait them for a group FTF.

Can we discuss why some people prefer FTF notes?

Edited by AleksSI

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