Less caches on new app.

[45701019]

I paid 6 pounds to download the classic app to enable more caches to become available than the beginner app which I used originally.

 

On downloading the new app I get less caches on searching unless I pay a much higher repeating subscription. I'm only an infrequent user and this has put me off greatly.

 

Or am I missing something?

 

Thanks a lot.

[+noncentric]

I paid 6 pounds to download the classic app to enable more caches to become available than the beginner app which I used originally.

 

On downloading the new app I get less caches on searching unless I pay a much higher repeating subscription. I'm only an infrequent user and this has put me off greatly.

 

Or am I missing something?

 

Thanks a lot.

If you haven't yet read these blog posts, then maybe they will answer some of your questions:

The Geocaching Classic app is retiring

More answers on Geocaching Classic app retirement

 

The new app limits Basic Members to traditional caches with D/T less than 1.5, but that limitation does not apply when Basic Members view caches on the website - either viewing on a computer or on a phone's web browser.

 

Premium Membership will allow you to see all caches, including PMO (Premium Member Only) caches, on both the app and the website. Premium Membership has an annual fee of $30 USD. There may be some issues with upgrading your membership via the app, so it might be better to upgrade your membership via the website.

 

If you do not want to pay for Premium Membership, then you could try a different app. Other apps will allow you to see more caches than the official "new app" will, with a Basic Membership. There are still some limitations, so you'd want to confirm what each app offers. I do not use iOS myself, but I have seen cachers recommend Cachly for iPhones ($5 USD). There are other apps as well, but I'm not sure which are better/best and how much each of them costs.

Edited March 4, 2017 by noncentric

[45701019]

Thanks for the reply. Why have they blocked these caches unless you pay the enhanced fee? Seems like a backward step to me. Lots of casual users will walk away I think. I for one won't pay the increased fee.

[+kunarion]

Thanks for the reply. Why have they blocked these caches unless you pay the enhanced fee? Seems like a backward step to me. Lots of casual users will walk away I think. I for one won't pay the increased fee.

Many people don't walk away from Apps that are free with continuing payments (especially IAP). For games, these Apps are the norm. And most Apps have terrible nagging ads, and many of those once had a pay-once version (now gone from the Store, unsupported, and broken in the latest OS). With the Official Groundspeak App, you can find caches as difficult as you like without paying at all, and without the popup video ads in so many other Apps. The higher difficulty caches are not displayed on the map, but certainly not "blocked". It's not super convenient to hunt a lot of caches using the App for "free", but it can be done. The point of paying is the convenience.

 

The free side of the Official App is an ad for the site subscription, and a way to ensure that one's phone has the capability to direct the cacher to a cache. I don't want everybody easily finding all my caches without even supplying a real email address, and I like Groundspeak's policy in that regard. Once "verified" and after finding a number of "easy" caches, I would not be opposed to the option of un-filtering the cache view. But I understand how much the App costs to maintain, and I don't want to be paying for it just so that people don't "walk away". I use a handheld GPSr, so I think it's fair if AP users pay for desired App features. Other Geocaching Apps are paid in other ways, find one that suits.

Edited March 4, 2017 by kunarion

[45701019]

As a basic and casual user I'm probably not explaining myself very well.

 

When I first started geocaching I downloaded a beginner geocaching app. After getting used to it I downloaded the full version at a cost of about 6 pounds as it promised to show more caches that the 'beginner' app did not. And it did.

 

Now I've downloaded the new app and some caches from the original don't show up on it. So when I search for caches near me some don't show up which do on the original. The only way I will get to see them is by paying either a month or yearly subscription.

 

This doesn't seem fair. I've already paid a premium to see these and now they are unavailable unless I pay again.

[+kunarion]

This doesn't seem fair. I've already paid a premium to see these and now they are unavailable unless I pay again.

It is a subscription, a continuing payment, to support the App. This is the way 99% of all game Apps work. I'd like to keep my paid Apps, but they go away eventually. They get replaced with the current IAP business model.

 

I have several pay-once Geocaching Apps, and they seem to be no longer supported, most will likely will be removed from the store. It's expensive to keep them updated. There were thousands of posts on this Forum with people angrily complaining about how horrible the Official paid App was. It's no surprise that it got cancelled. There was very little evidence that people liked it. Until today.

 

Fortunately, a casual Geocacher does not need the old paid App, depending on how "casual". Go to the web site, research a cache, enter the coords into a compass App, and go. The Official Free Geocaching App works just fine for this purpose. The caches are NOT blocked, go find them. You could be finding a cache or two every day, and the rest of us are paying for it. Unfair, sure. But you can do that.

Edited March 5, 2017 by kunarion

[Blue Square Thing]

As a basic and casual user I'm probably not explaining myself very well.

 

When I first started geocaching I downloaded a beginner geocaching app. After getting used to it I downloaded the full version at a cost of about 6 pounds as it promised to show more caches that the 'beginner' app did not. And it did.

 

Now I've downloaded the new app and some caches from the original don't show up on it. So when I search for caches near me some don't show up which do on the original. The only way I will get to see them is by paying either a month or yearly subscription.

 

This doesn't seem fair. I've already paid a premium to see these and now they are unavailable unless I pay again.

You could pay to download another app that will give you around the same level of access you previously had - something like Cachly for example.

 

I understand exactly where you're coming from and I appreciate entirely that this means you'll have to pay the c.£6 again. But you won't have to pay the £30 a year. I paid my £9 back in 2011 so I've had a decent run for the money I suppose. The alternative is that you use the website rather than an app and input the coordinates manually, for example.

[+kunarion]

The alternative is that you use the website rather than an app and input the coordinates manually.

+1.

 

I got the full version of Commander Compass (check the free app of the day sites, and you may get lucky, and even the demo works fine). It's great for entering a waypoint or two if I don't have my GPSr. The Official Geocaching App also allows entering coords.

[45701019]

I downloaded Cachly and it has the same caches (in my area anyway) as the new app does so misses off a few Multics that appear on the classic app. Worth a try though. Looking through the blogs regarding retiring of the original app it seems I'm not alone in my frustrations. To a career geocacher the subscription for the service must seem so insignificant that these geocachers probably don't see my point of view and I accept what they say. I speak purely from a casual and non tech savvy point of view though and I still think this is a bad business move. I have tried in the past to use a gps rather than my phone but failed miserably. I hope this isn't the beginning of the end of my enjoyment of geocaching. I recommend it to all my friends, have set some caches in the past and do thoroughly enjoy it when time allows but as a light user I just can't justify paying the extra subscription costs. It would be interesting if far down the line they can analyse the amount of 1 off payment users they have lost or feel they won't attract anymore compared to the amount of full subscribers they have.

[+kunarion]

I downloaded Cachly and it has the same caches (in my area anyway) as the new app does so misses off a few Multics that appear on the classic app.

 

The free Official App hides from view caches that an absolute newbie might not find immediately. Other company's Apps that use the API limit caches in a different way from non-subscribers. But as from the beginning of Geocaching, all players can type the coords and go, for free.

 

It would be interesting if far down the line they can analyse the amount of 1 off payment users they have lost or feel they won't attract anymore compared to the amount of full subscribers they have.

 

That was analyzed and decided. Game Apps that were one-time-pay are not trendy anymore. Revenue stream is the way to go. If you doubt this, take a look at all the "Top Revenue Generating Apps", which bring in millions if not billions of dollars. They are all "free". Groundspeak's App won't bring in unlimited profit, but it's fair if the people who enjoy and use the App are subscribing. It's unfair if subscribers are paying for maintenance of a one-time-pay App for non-subscribers. Many subscribers do without "an App".

Edited March 6, 2017 by kunarion

[45701019]

It's also unfair that an app is being withdrawn that someone has paid for which continues to work perfectly without an equal alternative.

[+kunarion]

It's also unfair that an app is being withdrawn that someone has paid for which continues to work perfectly without an equal alternative.

Yes! That happened to me with a bunch of Apps. Most of them now have IAP versions, and major restrictions unless you pay. Go figure.

Edited March 5, 2017 by kunarion

[+noncentric]

It's also unfair that an app is being withdrawn that someone has paid for which continues to work perfectly without an equal alternative.

As kunarion mentioned, there are several one-time-pay apps that eventually become unsupported and/or are removed from the store. That is not uncommon. I don't know how many years you have had the paid app. Let's say you've used it for 3 years (since that makes the math easy), then it has cost you 2 pounds per year? I think that's the same cost as a cup of coffee per year.

 

The revenue from a one-time sale of the "Classic App" (paid app) is hardly enough to pay for development and maintenance of it. That means that Premium members are subsidizing the app that Basic members are using. Some Premium members would say that that is unfair.

 

As a Basic member, you are still able to see all non-PMO caches via the website and I think you can view any non-PMO cache on the free app if you search by GC code? I'm not sure about that. If that works, then you could look at caches on the website, write down the GC Codes of the caches you want to search for, and then view each of those caches on the app by searching for those GC Codes.

[Blue Square Thing]

As a Basic member, you are still able to see all non-PMO caches via the website and I think you can view any non-PMO cache on the free app if you search by GC code? I'm not sure about that. If that works, then you could look at caches on the website, write down the GC Codes of the caches you want to search for, and then view each of those caches on the app by searching for those GC Codes.

That doesn't appear to work on the app - it tells me I need to be a premium member for any cache with > 1.5 D or T or any non-trad unless either I own the cache or I've already found it.

 

At least, that's what appears to be happening to me. I could well be wrong. But it does indeed seem as if there are fewer caches available via this app.

 

I guess one way to do it would be to look on the web, post a fake found it log, view the cache on the app and save it and then delete the fake found it log - either before or after going to find the cache?

Edited March 5, 2017 by Blue Square Thing

[+noncentric]

As a Basic member, you are still able to see all non-PMO caches via the website and I think you can view any non-PMO cache on the free app if you search by GC code? I'm not sure about that. If that works, then you could look at caches on the website, write down the GC Codes of the caches you want to search for, and then view each of those caches on the app by searching for those GC Codes.

That doesn't appear to work on the app - it tells me I need to be a premium member for any cache with > 1.5 D or T or any non-trad unless either I own the cache or I've already found it.

Thanks for checking on that. I found a post that mentions the option to enter the GC-Code. The #4 post in this thread. As I re-read it, it sounds like they meant all non-Groundspeak apps that use the API.

 

And indeed, it's noted in the API documentation:

a. Basic Members shall be limited to viewing full geocache details for up to 3 Geocaches per day.

b. Geocache search results for Basic Members shall be limited to Traditional Geocache Listings only.

c. Basic Members may request full geocache details for non-Traditional Geocaches using the GC reference code; however, they will remain subject to the limitation of 3 as set forth in section 1a above.

 

 

At least, that's what appears to be happening to me. I could well be wrong. But it does indeed seem as if there are fewer caches available via this app.

There certainly are fewer caches available on the new app compared to the Classic app, for Basic members, and even for the new app compared to other non-Groundspeak apps. Whether I consider that fair or not is irrelevant.

[Blue Square Thing]

I think the API agreement can be handed that way by other apps? But not by The App - I have a vague recollection of reading that somewhere?