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New app/Premium push a big NOPE


Zerpersande
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The new app doesn't allow me to disable/enable a cache or perform maintenance. Don't like the user interface much at all. Overall, it is useless for me as a CO to do what I often do. Haven't found a way to view a cache of the website. I agree with almost every review of the app on the app store....this thing is useless. Less than 1 star. Junk.

 

The push to Premium? Well, that means that the lists I have are useless to me now. And the most important ones are of my own caches that I use for maintenance. And limiting the type (difficulty??) of the caches available? I guess the idea is that new users will want to find out more? Or they might just say screw the entire thing.

 

I'm making all my caches difficulty 1.0. Let finders rate them in comments. That is just as accurate as the CO rating it bc that rating varies from area to area, not just CO to CO. But pay for Premium? Nope. I did that for a while, mainly for querie capability. But not being into the activity that much any longer, this will just push me out completely. As my caches go missing I'll just archive them. Or just let them sit.

 

It wouldn't surprise me if disgruntled geocachers made the object of the game to muggle all the basic level caches so newcomers would not even consider continuing with the game when their time was spent looking for sonething that wasn't there.

 

Nope, done with geocaching.

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The new app doesn't allow me to disable/enable a cache or perform maintenance. Don't like the user interface much at all. Overall, it is useless for me as a CO to do what I often do. Haven't found a way to view a cache of the website. I agree with almost every review of the app on the app store....this thing is useless. Less than 1 star. Junk. ...

 

-

 

...It wouldn't surprise me if disgruntled geocachers made the object of the game to muggle all the basic level caches so newcomers would not even consider continuing with the game when their time was spent looking for sonething that wasn't there.

 

Nope, done with geocaching.

If you mentioned what OS you were using, a Mod coulda moved your (yet another) "rant about the app" bluff post to the proper forum. :D

 

Kinda reaching a bit, dontcha think?

The idea that cachers might muggle "basic level" caches because of an app is silly.

By now you should have realized that the majority of caches have been non-pmo since the beginning of this hobby. :)

All the caches we've had swiped, were done by basic members with free apps.

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The new app doesn't allow me to disable/enable a cache or perform maintenance.

It was mentioned in the Geocaching Blog that owner log types will be added to the Official app before 3/23.

 

Haven't found a way to view a cache of the website.

When viewing an individual cache, tap the 3-dots in the upper-right corner to get the drop-down menu. There should be an "Open in Browser" option there. I'm using Android, but suspect the same capability should be in iOS if that's what you're using.

 

I'm making all my caches difficulty 1.0. Let finders rate them in comments. That is just as accurate as the CO rating it bc that rating varies from area to area, not just CO to CO. But pay for Premium? Nope. I did that for a while, mainly for querie capability. But not being into the activity that much any longer, this will just push me out completely. As my caches go missing I'll just archive them. Or just let them sit.

 

It wouldn't surprise me if disgruntled geocachers made the object of the game to muggle all the basic level caches so newcomers would not even consider continuing with the game when their time was spent looking for sonething that wasn't there.

Uhm, okay. So, you're going to muggle Basic caches so new cachers end up only with DNF's and drop the hobby before getting too interested? Maybe they'll end up paying for Premium instead, so they can find what they think are 'better' (premium) caches. Then they'd end up finding some PMO caches and they'd really be 'sold' that the Premium Membership is 'worth it'. Muggling might backfire on you. Not to mention that you'd be causing a lot of hassle and expense for the CO's who placed the Basic caches. Collateral damage?

 

I would hope that cachers leaving the hobby wouldn't intentionally ruin it for others. That's just mean-spirited. :ph34r:

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The new app doesn't allow me to disable/enable a cache or perform maintenance. Don't like the user interface much at all. Overall, it is useless for me as a CO to do what I often do. Haven't found a way to view a cache of the website. I agree with almost every review of the app on the app store....this thing is useless. Less than 1 star. Junk.

 

The push to Premium? Well, that means that the lists I have are useless to me now. And the most important ones are of my own caches that I use for maintenance. And limiting the type (difficulty??) of the caches available? I guess the idea is that new users will want to find out more? Or they might just say screw the entire thing.

 

I'm making all my caches difficulty 1.0. Let finders rate them in comments. That is just as accurate as the CO rating it bc that rating varies from area to area, not just CO to CO. But pay for Premium? Nope. I did that for a while, mainly for querie capability. But not being into the activity that much any longer, this will just push me out completely. As my caches go missing I'll just archive them. Or just let them sit.

 

It wouldn't surprise me if disgruntled geocachers made the object of the game to muggle all the basic level caches so newcomers would not even consider continuing with the game when their time was spent looking for something that wasn't there.

 

Nope, done with geocaching.

 

Thanks for putting caches out there. Too bad gs'ing is shooting their own feet with bad decisions lately. If there is a positive to the REALLY SCREWED UP APP and recent panhandling for money in every possible way that gs is doing, maybe it's that the members are actually removing / archiving caches again. Hopefully yours will continue for a while with your (THANKS!) lower t/d ratings so that people can find and enjoy them, instead of falling for the begging-for-money scheme gs is doing right now.

 

Give it a little while, as the app usage, and subsciptions really start to fall off, they'll wise up.

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Artificially lowering your cache D/T ratings is a good way to get established cachers to boycott your caches.

 

Has anyone considered the possibility that Groundspeak's change on the interaction of the app and PM might be due to their costs? Or perhaps simply because that's how most of the sanctioned third party apps work?

 

If the OP wants to keep lists like all their owned caches there are other options, like an old but completely free app called GeoHunter (if you're on Droid; if you've got an iPhone I have no idea.)

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1 Has anyone considered the possibility that Groundspeak's change on the interaction of the app and PM might be due to their costs?

2 Or perhaps simply because that's how most of the sanctioned third party apps work?

 

 

1 developing a new application is generally more expensive than maintaining an existing application, unless there are royalties in the existing. i have no financial data to back this up, just common sense.

 

2 third party applications do more than the official gs application does. there would be no cost at all in allowing those third party (or the official) applications to view all caches, all terrains, and all difficulty ranges of caches. the main thing here is that the current subscription nagging is bad for business. these threads all saying similar things should be a good indicator, even if the people in charge do or don't use them, do or do not like them, do or do not want applications at all.

 

side note.... just by the shear numbers of phones in pockets, it makes sense to provide an application FOR SALE to the millions of possible smartphone users. if it's really true that smartphone users are -less worthy " or "less involved" than it also makes sense to try and SELL THEM SOMETHING than to drive them away with nags and begging for money.

 

please read this with an idea that it's for gaining more users, more aspects/ideas, and not for excluding any groups. if people want to cache with compass+maps, tailor a map set for them and SELL IT, but don't drive them off by saying they can't even see where things might be.

 

just ideas.

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All the caches we've had swiped, were done by basic members with free apps.

 

How would you know that ?

Because they placed their swiped ammo cans as new caches, and either we, or friends of ours found them with the original geocaching.com sticker with ours and the cache name still on them.

"I thought that's how this game is played" was the common answer...

Sheesh...

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The new app doesn't allow me to disable/enable a cache or perform maintenance.

 

(various crying omitted)

 

Nope, done with geocaching.

Let's see, where do you hide your caches? Japan? OK, noted. Have a nice life, enjoy your geocide -- I give it a 3 at best. Sorry, but this is a worldwide hobby and there are some much more creative geocides out there.

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All the caches we've had swiped, were done by basic members with free apps.

 

How would you know that ?

Because they placed their swiped ammo cans as new caches, and either we, or friends of ours found them with the original geocaching.com sticker with ours and the cache name still on them.

"I thought that's how this game is played" was the common answer...

Sheesh...

 

I'm even more curious now. the same person that took your cache container/containers placed them in a new location with their own gc account, went through the processes of gaining land owner permission, getting good coordinates, passed the peer reviewers inspections, and it went live....

 

but they didn't understand how the game works for just logging a find on your caches ?

 

was it multiple caches, all by the same person, or a one cache per person instance?

 

very very odd set of events to actually happen more than once, especially with more than one person.

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I'm even more curious now. the same person that took your cache container/containers placed them in a new location with their own gc account, went through the processes of gaining land owner permission, getting good coordinates, passed the peer reviewers inspections, and it went live....

 

but they didn't understand how the game works for just logging a find on your caches ?

 

was it multiple caches, all by the same person, or a one cache per person instance?

 

very very odd set of events to actually happen more than once, especially with more than one person.

These off-topic questions would best be addressed in a forum private message or email conversation. I thought cerberus1's words were pretty clear (memberS, "common answer," etc.), but if you'd like more detail, you're welcome to ask him privately.

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It wouldn't surprise me if disgruntled geocachers made the object of the game to muggle all the basic level caches so newcomers would not even consider continuing with the game when their time was spent looking for sonething that wasn't there.

 

Nope, done with geocaching.

 

How about we just hide PMO and above 1.5 DT levls? :) I kinda felt the push a few years ago as a cache owner when the muggle app was released. :ph34r:

 

Hang in there. :)

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I just downloaded the app and haven't had a chance to try it out yet. I was disappointed at first when I saw that you had to upgrade to premium membership to see all the caches and my old app would be disabled at the end of the month. I then saw where you can upgrade to premium for half price and I renewed my premium membership that had expired to have full access to the app. The past few years I have been strictly using my iPhone to geocache as my GPSR died and I don’t feel like spending the money to replace it when I have a smartphone that does the job just fine. I read Geocaching's blog to enlighten myself about the new app. I for one like the fact that the new app limits the user to the 1.5 caches. New players can still find caches and if they like the game they can upgrade to find more caches or hand enter the coordinates into a map app on their phone (like we did in the dark ages on our GPS units before smartphones). I’m not trying to be a snob to new players, I just believe the old app contributed to the placement of throw downs and junky caches. If you purchase a premium membership or buy a GPS unit to download coordinates from the website, you are showing a commitment to the game which in my opinion for the most part would add players who were interested in geocaching for the long term and discourage players who view it as the latest fad. I think the new app is a step in the right direction.

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Narnian Rockhound, I'm with you. I also paid the $10 for an app that is in my opinion, a far better app than the new piece of free crap they have put out for download. I also agree that the focus of fun free game appears to have turned into a more for profit business. I liked the previous app because I could search for any non member only cache and it was easy to use. I still could not build lists and all of the other bells and whistles. Sorry.. I don't need them.

 

When you start charging $6 a month to look up a cache that used to be free on my old app, but now is a pay for service you have gone to far. This is not Netflix, Hulu nor is it a VPN service. It does nothing but takes XML data and pushes it out to a web capable device. There is no real value in the service they offer besides saying; "Hey you can now download a free app." Hello... I DON'T WANT IT which is why I paid $10 for the original app.

 

My question is compromise such a hard thing? if you needed to pay for the update to the app, then why not charge say $2 - $5 fee for the newer app update for those who have it. I would be ok with that, but to simply force this piece of crap upon me; sorry but that is just wrong. I'm ok with an update fee that but would not restrict caches based on difficulty ratings. I'm surprised they did not put the app out here for critique prior to rolling it out. They would have quickly found out how many of us hate it and they would have also got valuable input on how to fix it. Now you are going to have to pay someone to fix something that should have never been rolled out to begin with.

 

Sorry for venting, but after almost 20 years on caching, this has got to be one of the dumbest things they have ever done. No one uses GPS Units anymore especially if you have a smartphone. I can simply bring my iPad along and tether off my cellphone. It was easier with a smartphone app but now they have killed a very simply and easy to use app, I'm going to have to go back to this method.

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Narnian Rockhound, I'm with you. I also paid the $10 for an app that is in my opinion, a far better app than the new piece of free crap they have put out for download. I also agree that the focus of fun free game appears to have turned into a more for profit business. I liked the previous app because I could search for any non member only cache and it was easy to use. I still could not build lists and all of the other bells and whistles. Sorry.. I don't need them.

 

When you start charging $6 a month to look up a cache that used to be free on my old app, but now is a pay for service you have gone to far. This is not Netflix, Hulu nor is it a VPN service. It does nothing but takes XML data and pushes it out to a web capable device. There is no real value in the service they offer besides saying; "Hey you can now download a free app." Hello... I DON'T WANT IT which is why I paid $10 for the original app.

 

My question is compromise such a hard thing? if you needed to pay for the update to the app, then why not charge say $2 - $5 fee for the newer app update for those who have it. I would be ok with that, but to simply force this piece of crap upon me; sorry but that is just wrong. I'm ok with an update fee that but would not restrict caches based on difficulty ratings. I'm surprised they did not put the app out here for critique prior to rolling it out. They would have quickly found out how many of us hate it and they would have also got valuable input on how to fix it. Now you are going to have to pay someone to fix something that should have never been rolled out to begin with.

 

Sorry for venting, but after almost 20 years on caching, this has got to be one of the dumbest things they have ever done. No one uses GPS Units anymore especially if you have a smartphone. I can simply bring my iPad along and tether off my cellphone. It was easier with a smartphone app but now they have killed a very simply and easy to use app, I'm going to have to go back to this method.

 

Lots of us are still using GPS units. You can ask for features you'd like without throwing other people under the bus, thanks.

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Sorry for venting, but after almost 20 years on caching, this has got to be one of the dumbest things they have ever done. No one uses GPS Units anymore especially if you have a smartphone. I can simply bring my iPad along and tether off my cellphone. It was easier with a smartphone app but now they have killed a very simply and easy to use app, I'm going to have to go back to this method.

I sorta understand.

As a basic member, you won't be able to hit caches like you used to.

 

But I disagree on your statement on GPSrs.

We continue to use GPSrs for most of our caching, though we've had (and used) phones for caching at times (the other 2/3rds and urban carp mostly) since we started. :)

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When you start charging $6 a month to look up a cache that used to be free on my old app, but now is a pay for service you have gone to far.

I have seen some other comments, in various threads, about a monthly fee. Can you tell me where this fee is charged? I buy the annual premium membership through the website for $30/year, so I'm just trying to understand where such a monthly fee is being charged.

 

No one uses GPS Units anymore especially if you have a smartphone. I can simply bring my iPad along and tether off my cellphone. It was easier with a smartphone app but now they have killed a very simply and easy to use app, I'm going to have to go back to this method.

I have a smartphone and the only time I use it for caching is when (1) finding Wherigos and (2) I forget to bring my Garmin GPSr. There are plenty of cachers that still use a GPSr as their primary, if not only, caching device.

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When you start charging $6 a month to look up a cache that used to be free on my old app, but now is a pay for service you have gone to far.

Since when did premium membership go up to $72 a year? Mine just renewed for $30, same low yearly price I've paid since March 2007.

 

Also, you've been a member since 2002, back when there wasn't an app. You don't need a phone. Go get your old GPSr out of the utility drawer and go caching like you used to.

 

(And yeah, I do find it's been $300 well spent.)

 

after almost 20 years on caching, this has got to be one of the dumbest things they have ever done. No one uses GPS Units anymore especially if you have a smartphone.

 

Looking past the inflated math hyperbole (while 15 years is a good run for geocaching, it's not "almost 20," it's 15), let me assure you, yes, I still use a GPSr, no plans to put it on a shelf any time soon.

 

You know there are other API partner apps out there that don't depend on premium membership, right? Go get Cachly.

Edited by hzoi
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No one uses GPS Units anymore especially if you have a smartphone.

 

Just search for "Garmin Communicator" and you'll see how wrong this statement is. Look at new GPS units being introduced and again see how wrong you are. ;)

 

I believe that only a very low percentage of geocachers still use a GPS unit. For me it was either upgrade to an expensive paperless unit, or a phone app that does so much more. :P

 

We could debate phone vs GPS all day, but fact is that Groundspeak caters to the phone app geocachers, which makes sense to me because their app was designed to sell their premium memberships. B)

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I believe that only a very low percentage of geocachers still use a GPS unit. For me it was either upgrade to an expensive paperless unit, or a phone app that does so much more. :P

 

Almost all cachers I know/meet use a GPS, not an app. My phone runs Windows mobile 6.5 BTW B)

 

But let's get back to the app discussion...

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Add me to the list of "I still use my GPS!" users. Out in the woods, and sometimes out of cell coverage, is where I enjoy caching the most - and I wouldn't do that without my trusty GPS. Right now, I'm a hybrid user. I will use just the official Geocaching® app for quick urban caches when I didn't do advance planning. When I do plan a geocaching day, I will load waypoints onto my GPS. But even then, I enjoy using the official App's turn-by-turn directions because it gives me voice alerts, and it means not having to plug in my GPS to the car's power each time I get in the cachemobile to navigate to the next cache. (This reboots the GPS.)

 

As an old timer, I've gained a new observation about people who say "this has turned into a big money grab by Geocaching HQ." When I started in 2002, there were no smartphone apps. The price of entry into the sport was to purchase a handheld GPS unit. I did that, and enjoyed free services for several months before deciding to pay for premium membership. It was $30 then, and $30 today. And, the basic game is still free. Anyone can surf the website and acquire the coordinates for any geocache other than a PM only cache, then load the waypoints into their GPS. For me, nothing has changed.

 

But... for people who started geocaching after the dawn of smartphone apps, they view the new model as a step backwards. Before today, a single $10 payment bought access to all caches except PM only caches, and now the same thing requires a premium membership coupled with the app. I've developed sympathy and tolerance for that position, because "newer" users don't have the perspective of those who started in the BS era (Before Smartphones). They're entitled to their opinion.

 

Edit: Hey, lookit that. My 9000th forum post. I guess I really am an old timer!

Edited by The Leprechauns
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Most of the experienced and regular cachers in my area use a GPSr. Of the many dozens of locals with more than 1000 finds, I can think of maybe one or two that use a phone. All of the 5000+ finders use GPSrs.

Personally, I use a GPSr for all finds, with a third-party app on my phone used solely for supplementary purposes (looking up latest logs/photos in the field, looking back through older logs I don't have in the GPSr, etc.).

 

I'm sure Groundspeak would love it if nobody was using a GPSr anymore, because it would simplify things a lot, but this isn't the case. Not by a longshot. If anything, I'd venture to say that experienced cachers still prefer GPSr over smartphone.

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With all due respect to the previous poster, over 95% of the cachers in my area use an iPhone or Android. And we have lots of cachers with 20,000+ finds. It might have more to do with the area since most of our area is covered by Cell Coverage (Los Angeles/Orange County Area) For us old timers, it had been a progression from the Yellow ETrex to the 60CSx to the Oregon to the Smart Phone. I still carry my 60CSx and Oregon, but only as a back up. In my area, Cachly has taken over for the iPhone and a couple of favorites for the Android. I think it is very sad that Groundspeak KILLED an app that we have paid for. I have found caches in 18 states and 12 different countries using the Classic App. The design of the new App looks like programming from a High Schooler. With the number of Found Logs declining, the stepping down of the President of Groundspeak and now the killing of a great app, one has to wonder if there isn't something "fishy" going on!?!?

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With all due respect to the previous poster, over 95% of the cachers in my area use an iPhone or Android. And we have lots of cachers with 20,000+ finds. It might have more to do with the area since most of our area is covered by Cell Coverage (Los Angeles/Orange County Area) For us old timers, it had been a progression from the Yellow ETrex to the 60CSx to the Oregon to the Smart Phone. I still carry my 60CSx and Oregon, but only as a back up. In my area, Cachly has taken over for the iPhone and a couple of favorites for the Android. I think it is very sad that Groundspeak KILLED an app that we have paid for. I have found caches in 18 states and 12 different countries using the Classic App. The design of the new App looks like programming from a High Schooler. With the number of Found Logs declining, the stepping down of the President of Groundspeak and now the killing of a great app, one has to wonder if there isn't something "fishy" going on!?!?

 

How could you possible know that, unless there are about a hundred of them and you know them all?

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I have a friend for whom the old app was perfect. He's a casual cacher who only has a few hundred finds after 7 years and goes months without any finds. Having to pay for a $30 annual membership is not a good deal.

 

I wonder if the result of this change will be driving most casual cachers out of the game?

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No one has to pay for a premium membership. If you want to find an occasional cache. Go online, print off the cache details, hand enter the coordinates into a navigation app, and go find the cache. That's how I found my first 100. Well I used a little yellow geko but the process would be the same.

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No one has to pay for a premium membership. If you want to find an occasional cache. Go online, print off the cache details, hand enter the coordinates into a navigation app, and go find the cache. That's how I found my first 100. Well I used a little yellow geko but the process would be the same.

+1

 

This is the thought that goes through my head every time I read that casual cachers won't be able to find caches without the Classic app or without the new app showing them all caches. Basic Members can still view all non-PMO caches on the website. They don't have the added capability of viewing all non-PMO caches on an app. If someone wants that added convenience, then there is a cost - for the added convenience of an app.

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This is the thought that goes through my head every time I read that casual cachers won't be able to find caches without the Classic app or without the new app showing them all caches. Basic Members can still view all non-PMO caches on the website. They don't have the added capability of viewing all non-PMO caches on an app. If someone wants that added convenience, then there is a cost - for the added convenience of an app.
Actually, they do have the capability of viewing all non-PMO caches on an app. They just have to use the GC code to specify the caches, rather than using the in-app search function.

 

So they'll have to use the web site to sort through the non-PMO caches that are available, and once they've identified a target cache or three, they can download those to an app by GC code. If they want to target more than three caches, then that will require a bit more advance planning, because they'll have to download three on one day, and then three more on the next, and so on.

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No one has to pay for a premium membership. If you want to find an occasional cache. Go online, print off the cache details, hand enter the coordinates into a navigation app, and go find the cache. That's how I found my first 100. Well I used a little yellow geko but the process would be the same.

 

I have considered typing exactly this out before so it could be copy/pasted into every single one of these threads.

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Actually, they do have the capability of viewing all non-PMO caches on an app. They just have to use the GC code to specify the caches, rather than using the in-app search function.

 

Not in the official app though. That absolutely doesn't work - having just tried to view a Trad D 4 T 1.5 and a Multi 1.5/1.5 both just down the road from me.

 

I *can* view caches I've found that I wouldn't be able to otherwise.

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The new app will be the ruin of Geocaching. Why people out there can only see the mysteries caches I own if they haven't pay the Premium fee? They are not paying to me, right? A free game appears to have turned into a profit business.

Yes - the game is free to place and find geocaches. You can place a cache for free, but how do you expect other cachers to know where it is? Do you need databases, servers, a website, and cache pages to notify other cachers about your cache? If so, then please realize that it requires money to pay for all that.

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