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Dr Jeckyl and Mr Hide

Is Geocaching Dead?

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8 hours ago, MCWS said:

If a user hides several badly reviewed caches, it will loose its right to hide any more.

So if enough people don't like my caches, then I have to create a new account before I can list any more?

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On ‎9‎/‎9‎/‎2017 at 10:52 AM, Tistone said:

I can't tell you how to feel, but if you want geocaching to survive, it doesn't help that veteran geocachers whine about how everything was better before. 

Geocaching develops as anything else - and if not, it would definatly die.

I startet geocaching under 2 months ago and think it's a great motivation to get out of the sofa. I walk or cycle, never use the car , simply to get in better shape.

Now I have found 220 caches and are really into it. I'm planing to put out some great new caches myself. Nice spots and creative boxes.

I was looking for some positive vibes in this forum, but it just makes me depressed.

My last visit here I'm afraid.

Regards

Tistone, Norway 

Why your last visit?  If you don't like the negative vibe you perceive in this forum why not stick around and try to change it?   I happen to agree with much of what your saying and lord knows we could use some fresh perspectives around here.  

Don't let this be your first and last post.

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I started 10 years ago as of last Sunday. I didn't log my caches on the computer, because, well, I just didn't. I loved getting out and seeing a new view. A new dirt road. A piece of history that I never knew. I just did it to DO it. It wasn't numbers. It was the experience. I didn't give a rats a** what my cache find count was. I found something YOU put out there in the desert, all by myself, based on GPS stuff. It was rad. <3

Fast forward a few years. I went through stuff, as we all do. Had I been a little more astute, I would have used geocaching to bring me back to what I love, rather than sit in the dark and feel unmotivated and put the whole love on the back shelf.

So now, I am back. It is TOTALLY different now. I love hunting the meaningful, well loved caches, But I will admitedly grab the quick LPC while out doing single mom chores, because, I feel like I lack credibility even TALKING here on the forum with the low number of finds I have. And the fact I even care about the number bugs me :(

This game/lifestyle is about getting up and off the chair and out the door. Had I logged all my finds back 9, 10 years ago, I'd be in the 1000s. It stings, but its real. I hope geocaching stays that way. Real. Its a love of my life, and now my 3 kids as well. This weekend I will be placing a half dozen new caches that I spent time on. Containers might be store, but placement is everything ❤️

Edited by TumbleweedDeb
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10 hours ago, TumbleweedDeb said:

So now, I am back. It is TOTALLY different now. I love hunting the meaningful, well loved caches, But I will admitedly grab the quick LPC while out doing single mom chores, because, I feel like I lack credibility even TALKING here on the forum with the low number of finds I have. And the fact I even care about the number bugs me :(

Don't let'em get you down!  As long as you're having fun and doing your best not to hinder other people's enjoyment, just shrug off the negativity. Everyone enjoys this hobby different ways, and that's one of the best bits about it. :)

 

10 hours ago, TumbleweedDeb said:

This game/lifestyle is about getting up and off the chair and out the door. Had I logged all my finds back 9, 10 years ago, I'd be in the 1000s. It stings, but its real. I hope geocaching stays that way. Real.

Word! B)

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On 12/30/2016 at 7:40 PM, Inmountains said:

And while we all have a few caches that we were not personally at, (I have a few),

We who? I've never and will never log a find on a cache I was not personally at. Doing so makes no sense to me whatsoever.

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3 hours ago, simpjkee said:
On 12/30/2016 at 9:40 PM, Inmountains said:

And while we all have a few caches that we were not personally at, (I have a few),

We who? I've never and will never log a find on a cache I was not personally at. Doing so makes no sense to me whatsoever.

Me neither.  How does one justify logging a find on something if didn't even visit the location where it was hidden?  The only reason that I can think of is that geocachers have discovered that they can get away with it.  

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5 hours ago, NYPaddleCacher said:
8 hours ago, simpjkee said:
On 12/30/2016 at 6:40 PM, Inmountains said:

And while we all have a few caches that we were not personally at, (I have a few),

We who? I've never and will never log a find on a cache I was not personally at. Doing so makes no sense to me whatsoever.

Me neither.  How does one justify logging a find on something if didn't even visit the location where it was hidden?  The only reason that I can think of is that geocachers have discovered that they can get away with it.  

Same here. I logged a Note on the Four Windows virtual ages ago, but I've never logged a Find on a cache that I didn't actually visit.

Edit: correct name

Edited by niraD
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Wow, really missed that one.  Rather than maxing out the "quotes"...      :D

Sorry Inmountains, but neither of us have ever been to any cache we weren't personally at. 

In fact I've stopped logging most monthly events we've personally attended, and some carpy caches that we were personally at too, rather than write a "why did I bother?" log.     :)

 -

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On 12/30/2016 at 9:40 PM, Inmountains said:

And while we all have a few caches that we were not personally at, (I have a few), logging finds by the thousands that you were not at personally takes away from the friendly challenge of finding caches and misses the point entirely of why Geocaching was even started, that being to get outdoors and discover new places.

"We all" who?  I think you've just confessed to the unforgivable sin here.  And I think you've got it a little sideways; logging any caches one was not personally at yadda, yadda, yadda...--not to mention what it says about one's personal integrity.

Not only have I never, there are probably a couple of handfuls of caches I've found & signed--but not logged--because I was just to tired that evening, got distracted/waylaid when I got home, etc., yet I would never even think of logging one I hadn't personally found to make up for those I neglected to log.

"You can learn more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation."--Plato
 

Edited by RufusClupea
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9 hours ago, simpjkee said:
On 12/30/2016 at 6:40 PM, Inmountains said:

And while we all have a few caches that we were not personally at, (I have a few),

We who? I've never and will never log a find on a cache I was not personally at. Doing so makes no sense to me whatsoever.

Wow, it took a lot of work to track down the context for this very old quote to see that you basically agree with the original point, you're just complaining about this relatively minor nod to the possibility of rare exceptions to the very sound general rule. I don't really know what lnmountains was thinking about, but I have a few caches where someone else climbed the tree and signed the log for me or where I was in a big group and signed the log without getting closer than 50' from where the cache was actually hidden, and I think it would be reasonable to call those "a few caches that we were not personally at". For all I know, you never allow anything like that to happen when you claim a find, but it seems kinda odd to act as if it should never make any sense to anyone.

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5 hours ago, dprovan said:

Wow, it took a lot of work to track down the context for this very old quote to see that you basically agree with the original point, you're just complaining about this relatively minor nod to the possibility of rare exceptions to the very sound general rule. I don't really know what lnmountains was thinking about, but I have a few caches where someone else climbed the tree and signed the log for me or where I was in a big group and signed the log without getting closer than 50' from where the cache was actually hidden, and I think it would be reasonable to call those "a few caches that we were not personally at". For all I know, you never allow anything like that to happen when you claim a find, but it seems kinda odd to act as if it should never make any sense to anyone.

I started reading this thread last night. got about 1/2 a page in so far. It appears as if Inmountains was suggesting he/she had logged finds on caches when they were well outside of being 50 feet from the cache.

The part that offended me was that he/she included me in that group by not sticking to 'I' and 'me' statements and instead using a 'we' statement. ("we all....") I'm definitely not part of that group. Maybe he/she logs caches he/she was not at, but I have not and will not. I'd appreciate it if I was not lumped in to that group as if logging caches you are not personally at is some kind of generally accepted practice..

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Quote

P.S. Maybe the original post could be added to the Is Geocaching Dead thread. I have a feeling this thread will be closed soon.

Upon request by L0ne.R here are the blogposts:

... and some charts from the linked posts:

Players in Australia 2015 vs. 2016:

CoT%2Btime%2Bcomp2.png

Loss of cachers year to date 2017:

2017-10-02+12_05_52-Cachers+over+time+-+

Google Trends Chart - Outdoor activities in comparison:

59d5adc1b0057_2017-10-0515_00_48-QuoVadisHorreumTerrae_.png.188e3de2c24bad29f786d001c0c4a6e8.png

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12 hours ago, º said:

Upon request by L0ne.R here are the blogposts:

Your profile doesn't come close to matching up with what's here, with no finds, no hides ...  not even a validated member.

Curious why I should take you seriously.  :) 

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12 hours ago, º said:

Players in Australia 2015 vs. 2016:

CoT%2Btime%2Bcomp2.png

Thanks for posting here. And thanks for the visuals.

Can you explain this bar graph above in a little more detail.

What does Active and Very Active. Is one cache found in a year considered an Active member?

The way I'm interpreting it is there are very few geocachers who find more then a handful of caches in a year. Of the 50,000+ accounts, maybe 1500 of those accounts actually record more than one online log per year, the others try it and leave. But their accounts remain in the system. Am I interpreting it correctly?

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28 minutes ago, cerberus1 said:

I click on the profile and get the name of "?", with no finds, no hides, nada.

Whatever browser you're using doesn't seem to like the special character used in their name. Moun10Bike's link uses the profile ID, clicking the profile uses the profile Username.  The former loads the proper profile, the latter in your case was likely loading the user "?"

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Very much alive here, I did 5-6 yesterday... they haven't been logged in years, but still there. But they are way, way out in the boonies, was camping, decided to pull up the app, and whoohoo, away I went!!

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15 minutes ago, thebruce0 said:

Whatever browser you're using doesn't seem to like the special character used in their name.

Possible I guess.  Still  some profiles that show 404 file not found, when clicking on them from here.  IE11.

Thought that was all fixed after the issues with folks and  Mary Hyde.  :)

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31 minutes ago, cerberus1 said:

Thought that was all fixed after the issues with folks and  Mary Hyde.  :)

Your optimism is contagious. :)

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2 hours ago, L0ne.R said:

Can you explain this bar graph above in a little more detail.

What does Active and Very Active. Is one cache found in a year considered an Active member?

The way I'm interpreting it is there are very few geocachers who find more then a handful of caches in a year. Of the 50,000+ accounts, maybe 1500 of those accounts actually record more than one online log per year, the others try it and leave. But their accounts remain in the system. Am I interpreting it correctly?

Perhaps read the linked blog posts?

Active and Very Active are defined in the "nosedive" blog post:

gc-hikingmelbourne-actives.png.b5856863f33c2abebc9996ac73eba0c0.png

 

2 hours ago, L0ne.R said:

Of the 50,000+ accounts, maybe 1500 of those accounts actually record more than one online log per year, the others try it and leave.

Nope.  Of the 50,000+ accounts, more than 2700 of them record more than 100 finds per year. I'd wager that a large portion of the 50,000+ find more than 1 in the year, not just stop at 1. I'm not sure where that data came from, but it's pretty clear what the graph represents if the blog post is read.

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3 hours ago, noncentric said:

Nope.  Of the 50,000+ accounts, more than 2700 of them record more than 100 finds per year. I'd wager that a large portion of the 50,000+ find more than 1 in the year, not just stop at 1. I'm not sure where that data came from, but it's pretty clear what the graph represents if the blog post is read.

That's correct, the 50,000+ accounts had 1 or more logs in the calendar year (Remember: It's only Australia). It's also true that a large portion have found two or more caches however if you reverse above data 95.3% of the Australian cachers have found 100 or less caches in a year. That alone doesn't mean much in terms of growth/decline  of the game since we all know there are a very few, very crazy cachers and then it tapers off (it's an exponential function - see Top 10k Finders).

The question is how many of the low-find geocachers leave or stick to the game?

If you're interested in the low-find population, have a look at the blog-post about Geocaching Stickiness. It is a bit older and focuses on Australia however it gives you an idea what is happening

The data is sourced from project-gc.com

top10kfinders.png.aa722581a7f7b38a0f084df6158ef6e5.png

playersinworld.png.f2ef04f2525770de092610ba2240a48f.png

7 hours ago, cerberus1 said:

Your profile doesn't come close to matching up with what's here, with no finds, no hides ...  not even a validated member.

Curious why I should take you seriously.  :) 

Although my credentials have been verified (Thanks Jon :)) you shouldn't take me serious until you fact-checked what I'm suggesting. My old reviewer account on the other hand would look a bit dodgy.

 

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Some words from Germany:

Geocaching isn't dead yet, but I believe, our hobby is really in danger. Something about the situation in Germany:

1.) active cachers from Germany:

2016: 257.624

2017: 210.016 (-16 %) .. and it's not the first year it is going down - anyway it is not dramatic, because there is a base of old and experienced cachers (1000+ cache finds), they won't stop caching

2.) nearly all geocachers I see are >30 years old or really young kids going caching with their families -> no youth = no future;

if there are young geocachers, they are giving up quite fast and stay below 100 finds

3.) geocaching isn't as present in media as it was some years ago, and if, it is mostly with negative connotation: dead geocachers, geocachers destroying nature, geocachers crazy.

4.) some-geocachers are narrow-minded and give newbies no chance. If their first caches aren't the best ones, they get harsh comments on it.

I don't know what to do about it, I think geocaching is good as it is now, but maybe Groundspeak has to work on some innovations to save the future of geocaching:(

 

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I don't mean to deny there's any trend, but I wouldn't put too much stock in a comparison between 2015 and 2016. P-Go came out in 2016, so a lot of people that were or would be interested in geocaching went to P-Go, instead. (At least in the US. Maybe it's wasn't as big in Australia.) Having said that, these graphs don't look too far from what I would expect if we were looking at the broader trend. I'd say geocaching was a minor fad a few years ago, so I'm not worried about it shedding a few extra pounds.

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On 07/10/2017 at 2:10 AM, pastacache said:

Some words from Germany:

Geocaching isn't dead yet, but I believe, our hobby is really in danger.

I think geocaching is neither dead nor in danger: 
"Does this have an impact on me? To make it short: No, it won't. You're still going out caching, there'll be plenty of stuff to do and in your daily play-time you probably won't notice a difference."

On 07/10/2017 at 2:10 AM, pastacache said:

2.) nearly all geocachers I see are >30 years old or really young kids going caching with their families -> no youth = no future;

if there are young geocachers, they are giving up quite fast and stay below 100 finds

I started 2003 in Germany and people have always taken up caching later in their lifes. Let's face it: When you're young, things like climbing, rafting, mountaineering, kayaking, MTBing and adventuring in general are far more tempting than a low-impact hobby like geocaching

Yes, yes, I know there are adventurous caches but just go to the usual geocaching event and then compare the audience to the average climbing gym audience. If that doesn't convince you

  • let me know when you found the GC equivalent of Matilda Söderlund, Hazel Findlay, Danny MacAskill, Leighan Falley or Sasha DiGiulian.
  • GIFF vs. Radical Reels

:lol:

 

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On 10/6/2017 at 11:51 AM, dprovan said:

I don't mean to deny there's any trend, but I wouldn't put too much stock in a comparison between 2015 and 2016. P-Go came out in 2016, so a lot of people that were or would be interested in geocaching went to P-Go, instead. (At least in the US. Maybe it's wasn't as big in Australia.) Having said that, these graphs don't look too far from what I would expect if we were looking at the broader trend. I'd say geocaching was a minor fad a few years ago, so I'm not worried about it shedding a few extra pounds.

I recently noticed that I had not updated my GPX files in a while.  Sorted by date hidden.  I was not getting new caches hidden since June, for my All Caches in New Jersey.  I used to need fourteen PQs for New Jersey.  Updated them today.  Now I only need twelve-and-a-half PQs.  That's well over a thousand fewer caches in New Jersey since the last time I updated.  (Probably a year ago.)  

Edited by Harry Dolphin
Sorry. That was 12.5 PQs.

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9 hours ago, Harry Dolphin said:

I recently noticed that I had not updated my GPX files in a while.  Sorted by date hidden.  I was not getting new caches hidden since June, for my All Caches in New Jersey.  I used to need fourteen PQs for New Jersey.  Updated them today.  Now I only need thirteen-and-a-half PQs.  That's well over a thousand fewer caches in New Jersey since the last time I updated.  (Probably a year ago.)  

It's looking pretty grim here too as far as new caches go. These are the number of new caches in my local government area (Gosford, NSW, Australia) for each year since I started caching in 2013:

2013 - 79, 2014 - 92, 2015 - 97, 2016 - 44, 2017 - 11.

Of those eleven this year, five were mine, and of the other six, all but two were hidden in January or February. Lean times indeed.

A lot of the stalwarts over those earlier years have now either left the game completely or do very little caching, while the new names that appear, usually around school holidays, do the rounds of the local P&Gs and then are never heard from again. I fear that 2018 will be even leaner than this year.

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I have another hobby that certainly had its hayday in the early-mid 00's. That space evolved, and what we knew then effectively disappeared. It's something new now. The people who did it the old way moved into creating rather than playing, and while they desired to provide the experiences, the culture and community and technology and well everything had changed and evolved, and so it was even a natural evolution of everything that meant that what we once enjoyed had had its time in the sun.

The same thing will happen and is happening with geocaching. Oh "geocaching" is still around, but times have changed. People, tech, culture, desires, all of that and more have changed. It's inevitable.  I don't believe "geocaching" will ever die. But it will change over time. It has to.  Even if the change is in the face of the people who play, that in itself means it'll be different. Declining numbers may or may imply overall popularity, it may ro may not be only one perspective on a trend, moving from one place to another.

On one hand it's exciting to see what's happening and coming around the bend, and on the other hand it's sad to see what we knew and enjoyed falling by the wayside. But as players we necessarily give way to new generations who have new ideas, new passions, new knowledge, new capabilities, new personalities... things will change.

But I won't stop geocaching :)

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On 10/23/2017 at 8:56 AM, thebruce0 said:

The same thing will happen and is happening with geocaching. Oh "geocaching" is still around, but times have changed. ...Even if the change is in the face of the people who play, that in itself means it'll be different.

Your point about change is very valid. And geocaching has changed from a pastime to a game. Those left playing adapted to the new style of play. The geocache itself doesn't mean a lot, but represents a gameplay that focuses on statistics. Or perhaps not "adapted", rather they are a dominating force that pushed the activity towards a game style of play-- which was sanctioned once the PT rule was lifted, then reinforced with the challenge cache style of statistical goal setting.

This past weekend, in my area  a group went through town looking for non-trads and plunked down a pill bottle to replace a missing final on a multi. Most were working towards several challenge caches (e.g. jasmer, 10-10-10) and needed the smiley. The cache owner is still active and hasn't responded to previous notes about missing contents that go back at least a year, then the cache went missing, still no response from the active owner. Every one of the 20 people in the group logged their throwdown as a find.

Perhaps giving in to the throwdown culture is the answer, expecting owners to maintain their caches is a 'dead' concept. Geocaching is not dead, but evolved into a PT-style culture.

Edited by L0ne.R
grammar
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22 minutes ago, L0ne.R said:

Your point about change is very valid. And geocaching has changed from a pastime to a game. Those left playing adapted to the new style of play. The geocache itself doesn't mean a lot, but represents a gameplay that focuses on statistics. Or perhaps not "adapted", rather they are dominating force that pushed the activity towards a game style of play-- which was sanctioned once the PT rule was lifted, then reinforced with the challenge cache style of statistical goal setting.

While true, I'd say the influence was more from the changing community than Groundspeak saying "Hey, let's forge new ground and change the rules to make it like this".  Almost all the significant changes I've sene in recent years are due to growing popularity of certain styles of play that 'pushed the bounds', as it were, to the point that Groundspeak felt they (some, not all) were worth adopting and incorporating into official guidelines.  Together that's changes the face of geocaching from what it was 10+ years ago.

 

22 minutes ago, L0ne.R said:

This past weekend, in my area a group went through town recently looking for non-trads and plunked down a pill bottle to replace a missing final on a multi. Most were working towards several challenge caches (e.g. jasmer, 10-10-10) and needed the smiley. The cache owner is still active and hasn't responded to previous notes about missing contents that go back at least a year, then the cache went missing, still no response from the active owner. Every one of the 20 people in the group logged their throwdown as a find.

And here's an example of a 'play style' that Groundspeak hasn't adopted into official guidelines - throwdowns, community maintenance, group caching, etc. Mainly, there's nothing they can do to stop it practically (best they can do is leave that responsibility to the CO), so they can't makes rules against it, but they can encourage not that, and I still get the sense this is what they do in their many tutorial videos and social media leanings. It's unfortunate that there are people who push the limits of allowability into areas that one might say are counter-gc-spirit, rather than into new ways of enjoying the hobby that are still within the spirit of gc (not that it means everyone enjoys every style of play that is in the spirit of gc).

 

22 minutes ago, L0ne.R said:

Perhaps giving in to the throwdown culture is the answer, expecting owners to maintain their caches is a 'dead' concept. Geocaching is not dead, but evolved into a PT-style culture.

I truly hope they don't give into throwdown culture.  For one the slippery slope is that it leads to potentially uncontrolled litter by encouraging it (disallowing it is something they can't control).  I don't see them ever encouraging a throwdown culture.  Statistics is something the community started doing long before it came 'official' from Groundspeak. Yep, Groundspeak eventually incorporated it, but knew that statistics in and of themselves aren't bad. And since community really really wanted it, they added it. Many make them into a game, many don't.  People are competitive, and they will make competition out of anything they can get their hands on. Even if GS hadn't made stats native, people would still be playing the same way.  One might say that at least if GS has native version of what people enjoy doing - rather than allowing handsoff 3rd party solutions - they still have a foot in the door, some amount of leverage and control over it.

So yeah, has Groundspeak influenced the changing face of geocaching? Indeed. But I'd wager the vast majority of it, if not all of it, has been led by the changing face of the community as they find ways to do things not yet native to the platform. This mentality is found everywhere.  Video gaming is just the same; glitching, or competitive gaming; mod communities; or tricking in most any sport/hobby etc.  It's making use of what exists in ways not yet imagined in order to provide a new experience. Whether those are adopted is a matter of popularity, influence, relevance, and business...  So it's inevitable that geocaching is going to change, and to some that 'change' is to them 'death'.

Edited by thebruce0

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On 10/23/2017 at 7:56 AM, thebruce0 said:

I have another hobby that certainly had its hayday in the early-mid 00's. That space evolved, and what we knew then effectively disappeared. It's something new now. The people who did it the old way moved into creating rather than playing, and while they desired to provide the experiences, the culture and community and technology and well everything had changed and evolved, and so it was even a natural evolution of everything that meant that what we once enjoyed had had its time in the sun.

The same thing will happen and is happening with geocaching. Oh "geocaching" is still around, but times have changed. People, tech, culture, desires, all of that and more have changed. It's inevitable.  I don't believe "geocaching" will ever die. But it will change over time. It has to.  Even if the change is in the face of the people who play, that in itself means it'll be different. Declining numbers may or may imply overall popularity, it may ro may not be only one perspective on a trend, moving from one place to another.

On one hand it's exciting to see what's happening and coming around the bend, and on the other hand it's sad to see what we knew and enjoyed falling by the wayside. But as players we necessarily give way to new generations who have new ideas, new passions, new knowledge, new capabilities, new personalities... things will change.

But I won't stop geocaching :)

I agree with you on a lot of the things you mentioned. Change comes about causing old timers to have to make a decision on whether to adapt and do things they don't really enjoy, or just flat out give up.

For geocaching, creativity is rare, good cache placement is rare, and dedication is rare these days. Stats are the big thing now. Other than that, there's not much here to keep people's interest. Geocaching has evolved into a game that people play on their phones, and just like most games played on phones, will get tossed when the next great game comes along. Dead? not right this minute. What the future holds? only time will tell!

 

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4 minutes ago, Mudfrog said:

For geocaching, creativity is rare, good cache placement is rare, and dedication is rare these days.

Fortunately, for now, there are still good creative caches around. It takes more and more time to filter them out of the "run of the mill trads" but so far we've been able togo out caching almost weekly and find only caches we like to find leaving "not worthy" caches even if we almost step on them. Just last Saturday we passed a micro hidden behind a bikeroute sign. I could see it when we walked by but didn't go sign the log. It would have been a +1 for my statistics but then again, why?

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9 minutes ago, Mudfrog said:

Geocaching has evolved into a game that people play on their phones

Just on this point, I've actually seen most newcomers in my area still talking about and using dedicated handhelds. I believe that for 'word of mouth' newbies, there's a good chance that handhelds will still be the go-to device. Most do seem to have smartphones as well - but don't count dedicated gpsr's out yet ;)

I think that it's really only new-discoveries to geocaching that come to it via smartphone; because GPSr brands don't really advertise mainstream about geocaching with their device. If they did, well, even then they may get more attention from outdoors enthusiasts. But the most eyes are reached for the hobby through the mainstream mobile device market, and that's smartphones.  That in and of itself is not a problem, as long as the device being used has worthwhile GPS capability. (and the apps encourage good practice, of course)

The device isn't the problem, it's the mentality using it. Handheld enthusiasts swear by their dedicated devices, but geocachers using them typically only use them because of how they began geocaching or whether their local community is populated by handheld owners. Price point is the other barrier to entry - people have smartphones already; people have to dish out extra $ for a dedicated device, which typically means they really want to take up geocaching as a regular hobby.

There's definitely more to the changing face of geocaching than merely evil-Groundspeak-bad-decisions :ph34r::P

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14 minutes ago, on4bam said:

Fortunately, for now, there are still good creative caches around. It takes more and more time to filter them out of the "run of the mill trads" but so far we've been able togo out caching almost weekly and find only caches we like to find leaving "not worthy" caches even if we almost step on them. Just last Saturday we passed a micro hidden behind a bikeroute sign. I could see it when we walked by but didn't go sign the log. It would have been a +1 for my statistics but then again, why?

And on the flipside, for many, it's "why not?"  I think it takes just as much personal ethic to say "why?" and consciouely skip as it does to say "why not?" and just sign it anyway. It's really no harm either way, just a personal choice.

Edited by thebruce0

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23 hours ago, thebruce0 said:
On 10/23/2017 at 8:25 AM, L0ne.R said:

Perhaps giving in to the throwdown culture is the answer, expecting owners to maintain their caches is a 'dead' concept. Geocaching is not dead, but evolved into a PT-style culture.

I truly hope they don't give into throwdown culture. 

I wholeheartedly agree with thebruce0 - and I say NO, NO, NO! to "giving in" to the throwdown clulture - newbie that I am, it still seems so, so , so wrong!!

36 minutes ago, Mudfrog said:

Geocaching has evolved into a game that people play on their phones, and just like most games played on phones, will get tossed when the next great game comes along. 

For some, perhaps.  For me, my phone is simply the device I use to Geocache.  It's a hobby, something I enjoy doing alone or with others, and it adds to my enjoyment when we travel someplace, or even just take and evening walk around the neighborhood.  I really don't care all that much about the stats, though it is fun to see the numbers and some of the conclusions one might draw from my "patterns".  And I'm having fun creating, what I feel. are quality hides for others to find.

Geocaching is not dead, though it has changed and will continue to change as devices and people change.

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I beg to differ. there are many great caches in my area, with a fair amount of quality maintenance. the only real problem I have had is with a lack of geocoin etiquette. 

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49 minutes ago, thebruce0 said:

And on the flipside, for many, it's "why not?"  I think it takes just as much personal ethic to say "why?" and consciouely skip as it does to say "why not?" and just sign it anyway. It's really no harm either way, just a personal choice.

Well maybe, just maybe CO's of "lame" caches notice that their caches are skipped and start wondering why... I'm not holding my breath though.

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22 minutes ago, Stoplight25 said:

I beg to differ. there are many great caches in my area, with a fair amount of quality maintenance. the only real problem I have had is with a lack of geocoin etiquette. 

Same here. I know quite a bit about caching, but I don't know much about GeoCoins, partially because around my area there isn't much GeoCoin activity. I do know they work similar to TB's though.  

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26 minutes ago, Stoplight25 said:

 the only real problem I have had is with a lack of geocoin etiquette. 

 

I won't drop a trackable locally because there is one account (a teen) that grabs them all and keeps them. Last count was 17 in their inventory.

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6 minutes ago, on4bam said:

Well maybe, just maybe CO's of "lame" caches notice that their caches are skipped and start wondering why... I'm not holding my breath though.

There aren't that many hiders in areas I visit, so most notice.  The other 2/3rds would be asked (when playing online games or at events) why I skip by their numerous nondescript hides on the way to another (the one I Favorited on the end of the trail).  She tells them to ask me.  Of the few who did, it's about 50/50 whether my explanation mattered to them or not.   :) 

There's a couple groups who cache only for numbers, placing caches as a team so all can log a smiley.  Rinse, repeat...    In conversation, they aren't that interested in quality much when numbers are the only goal.  Any FPs are often members within their group.

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1 hour ago, thebruce0 said:

And on the flipside, for many, it's "why not?"  I think it takes just as much personal ethic to say "why?" and consciouely skip as it does to say "why not?" and just sign it anyway. It's really no harm either way, just a personal choice.

Quote

Well maybe, just maybe CO's of "lame" caches notice that their caches are skipped and start wondering why... I'm not holding my breath though.

That's how I feel about it, and stopped searching for micros years ago because most are created because it's cheap and easy. Carry a sackful of bisons, film canisters, pill bottles and nano buttons, and plunk one down as you go. Stop at a cemetery. No cache here. Plunk a bison on the fence, take a quick reading and go. Encourage people to carry a sackful of eBay knock-off leaky bisons to replace those that go missing or have a full soggy log.  By holding my nose and finding them because they were steps away, I felt I was contributing to the degradation of the pastime and encouraging more cheap, mindless, abandoned cache hides.

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10 hours ago, on4bam said:

Well maybe, just maybe CO's of "lame" caches notice that their caches are skipped and start wondering why... I'm not holding my breath though.

But how many CO's pay attention to find activity on caches near theirs?  I've never looked at cache near mine to see if mine were skipped, or if finders of mine found any of those others.  So unless you're leaving "couldn't be bothered to stop" logs on the caches, I doubt you are making much impact on them.

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28 minutes ago, The Jester said:

So unless you're leaving "couldn't be bothered to stop" logs on the caches, I doubt you are making much impact on them

Now there’s an idea. 

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4 hours ago, The Jester said:

But how many CO's pay attention to find activity on caches near theirs?  I've never looked at cache near mine to see if mine were skipped, or if finders of mine found any of those others.  So unless you're leaving "couldn't be bothered to stop" logs on the caches, I doubt you are making much impact on them.

I once had a local cacher email me to ask why I hadn't spent time on their geolitter trail because they noticed I had found some caches nearby. I didn't respond.

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11 hours ago, The Jester said:

But how many CO's pay attention to find activity on caches near theirs?  I've never looked at cache near mine to see if mine were skipped, or if finders of mine found any of those others.  So unless you're leaving "couldn't be bothered to stop" logs on the caches, I doubt you are making much impact on them.

We don't look either, but we know of a couple who have caches around their hides on watch.  All their caches are pmo too, so I guess it's possible they're just inquisitive, or there's more to it than we wanna know about.  

We figure the watch list is the simplest explanation how some have noticed that I'm not doing theirs.   :)

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40 minutes ago, cerberus1 said:

We don't look either, but we know of a couple who have caches around their hides on watch.  All their caches are pmo too, so I guess it's possible they're just inquisitive, or there's more to it than we wanna know about.  

We figure the watch list is the simplest explanation how some have noticed that I'm not doing theirs.   :)

The simplest explanation is that the CO has setup the Instant Notification service to send logs for their area.

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I started caching in the summer of 2001. While I expect change to occur, some of it has been for the worst.

1. Micros - The overwhelming majority of the caches listed in my area are micros. With little if no thought put into them. Micros are fine in urban areas, but now even areas that can support a regular sized cache are infested with micros.

2. Power trails - There is a multi user/bike trail in my area that is 60 miles long. At one point this trail was tied up with a power trail consisting of a pill bottle every mile. Even worse are the ones with a pill bottle every tenth of a mile

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I realize this is not a currently active thread, but just came across this today.  I can not vouch for it's accuracy but seems to fit in with the trends I'm aware of...

Geocacher Totals.PNG

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From the perspective of a new geocacher:

Geoaching isn't just about swag, trackables, cool containers, fancy logbooks, etc. (In fact, I've yet to trade swag or drop/grab a trackable). It's about the places that it takes you. I have found several LPCs and magetic nanos on street signs. They aren't really "role model geocaches" IMO.

I have hidden one cache. I tried to place it in an area that had some historical significance (in this case, a park in a historic neighborhood) and make it a bit interesting - not just an LPC or a magnetic nano. What is the point of placing an LPC? What's the point of trying to find geocaches just for numbers? In my opinion, the point of geocaching isn't just the container - it's the cache location. Geocaching is supposed to bring us to interesting places. Not Walmart parking lots.

The more interesting caches we hide, the more people will think Geocaching is an interesting hobby.

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2 hours ago, 321geocache said:

The more interesting caches we hide, the more people will think Geocaching is an interesting hobby.

I agree entirely, but sadly the more interesting hides seem to get few finders these days. In the first four months of this year, there've been 23 new caches published in my region (Central Coast, NSW, Australia), not counting the geoart puzzles for the recent mega, and the breakdown of those is:

  • 7 traditional (5 P&G, the other two more adventurous)
  • 2 multi
  • 12 mystery
  • 1 event
  • 1 earthcache

Those 5 P&Gs have 80 finds across them, compared to 77 across the 17 others (excluding the event). So P&Gs are very much a minority in the new hides, yet they're the ones that get the bulk of the finds (16 finds per cache versus a bit over 4 finds per cache).

Looking at my own hides sorted by hidden date, I have to go back a year to find any with ten or more finds and two years to find one reaching 20. Five of my hides have had no finders in the last six months and on one of those (a 3/3.5 multi) the last find was in December 2016.

So we have this strange dichotomy of people wanting to hide interesting caches but not find them.

Edited by barefootjeff

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