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Release Notes - December 5, 2016

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Thanks for bringing Project GC to my attention regarding the geocaching maps. I just took a look and I'll be using it for my search and planning now. No "funky" icons to look at. Groundspeak can keep their map and icons now. Don't give a rip.

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The new icons look good for me. But it is still only design. Why do you waste your time on such useless work while much more imporant things really needs your attention? Functionality and usability! That is what you should working on!

 

Why cannot I simply filter caches on the map by size, D/T or attributes?

Why PQs are so archaic, hardly comfortable and with absurd restrictions from the previous century?

Why should I set 8 different instant notifications for one region (separate for each cache type) instead of just one for all?

Why we still does not have usable cache editor?

etc.

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Traditionally, it seems to me, that with every change, TPTB give lip service to "looking into it" but when has anything ever been changed back, or "fixed" to reflect how the majority feel? And there is no concern given for what the majority might want.

 

We all have to just take whatever changes are implemented, and either get used to it, or go away.

 

I'm sure we'll all get used to the new map icons eventually, but that doesn't mean the change has been for the better, but rather probably for some boardroom reasons that none of us are aware of.

Based on past experience, this is how I think the situation will be two weeks from now:

-The members who don't like/can't use the new design will have moved to third-party alternative maps, learned to live with it, or abandoned it entirely to use different methods.

-A few members will threaten geocide but fail to follow through, earning a geocide rating of 0.

-The uproar will have largely died down, with the exception of the occasional member who's just noticing the change and will start a new forum discussion titled "I HATE THE NEW MAP!!!1!", or similar.

-The developers will have fixed some technical issues (e.g. the size of the clickable area), but no changes will have been made to the style and the accessibility/user experience problems will remain.

-The Lackeys will have lost interest in this particular project and will move on to another project, neglecting to ever actually complete the project.

-The mistakes that have been made throughout the process on this and previous projects will be forgotten and then repeated on the new project.

-Profit?

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I am convinced Groundspeak always knows what is best for us. Just ask them. They are convinced we will get used to the latest disaster they just threw at us. Those that don't get used to it will go away. Problem solved. The perfect problem solving solution. Short term damage control is to pretend you actually took real users into account for the latest bad idea, but they will now take another look at it. Perhaps on the 12th of never. I think that is a local holiday in Seattle.

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It's disappointing that disabled found caches are no longer distinguished from active ones. As well as being handy when looking for somewhere local to drop a TB, seeing which of those caches I've found are now disabled gave a bit of a feel for the health of the local caching community. That sense is now lost.

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Wow, +1 for the Project GC live map!! I didn't know that existed.

 

Very easy to see icons, regardless of zoom, type, found, disabled, etc. In addition to the usual sorting, you can sort the map by Fave points, name, D/T, size, fave % & Wilson score (though some require Project GC Premium upgrade, it would seem).

 

Wow, these are all features that I wish the Geocaching map had! Plus there are all map layers you could possibly hope for. Only gripe is that the PGC live map is sluggish.

 

But THIS is how powerful the geocaching map SHOULD be!

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First of all I want to state my agreement with everyone who finds the new maps horrible. The new icons are much worse than the old ones as they are more difficult to distinguish and also really ugly. The lost functionality of indicating premium caches is really a pity.

 

Thanks to the posters here who pointed to the map on Project GC. I guess I will be using that one quite a bit from now on. At Project GC, the still listen to their users. I am a happy paying customer there. Here at Groundspeak I am still paying since it effectively has a monopoly on Geocaching (yes, I know about the alternatives - but look at the number of caches) - but I am not happy at all and am getting less happy with every update. The last time Groundspeak actually listened to their users and implemented something useful was 2010 I think (or maybe 2011). Since then things have only worsened and the speed with which this happens is accelerating a lot, unfortunately. Only mobile/app seems to count nowadays and they don't even do that particularly well. :(

 

As for what will happen regarding these changes I agree with the analysis of "The A-Team" 100%. As frustrating as it is.

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It's disappointing that disabled found caches are no longer distinguished from active ones. As well as being handy when looking for somewhere local to drop a TB, seeing which of those caches I've found are now disabled gave a bit of a feel for the health of the local caching community. That sense is now lost.

^ this is what I came here to say.

 

I can live with the maps (I quite like them in some ways, although the icons are a little bit at some zoom levels) but it would be really helpful to see which caches are disabled that I've found. I need to get a bonus number out of one that is disabled - I was near there this afternoon and, fortunately, didn't take the walk across.

 

I imagine it might also be handy to put a coloured outline on PMO caches perhaps?

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so in short you guys say suck it up and move on well no we have the right to speak or mind good or bad and alot of people now including me are all saying the same the update SUCKS and changing the website so it would look like the app isnt a solution best and only thing they can do is turning back and realise this whole update is a EPIC FAIL

 

I never said you shouldn't gripe if you're unhappy. It's good for your health to get it out! .... just don't hold your breath thinking that will change anything.

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Frankly, I believe the removal of the PMO icon type only presages the removal of having members and non member cache types.

Edited by fbingha
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Frankly, I believe the removal of the PMO icon type only precludes the removal of having members and non member cache types.
Unless there is a way to hide caches from "muggles with apps", removing the ability to make caches PMO will be very unpopular with some cache owners.
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New icons are terrible! We want the old! Or possibility of choice!

Minimal it would be good, if the hidden and found caches have got the same color!

Edited by MiroslavRouta
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Frankly, I believe the removal of the PMO icon type only precludes presages the removal of having members and non member cache types.
Unless there is a way to hide caches from "muggles with apps", removing the ability to make caches PMO will be very unpopular with some cache owners.

(I think he meant "presages" or "precedes".)

 

Yes, this would be an unpopular move. A major structural change to the game, and a dirty trick to play on cache hiders, who are the important partners that keep the game going.

Edited by Viajero Perdido
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Frankly, I believe the removal of the PMO icon type only precludes presages the removal of having members and non member cache types.
Unless there is a way to hide caches from "muggles with apps", removing the ability to make caches PMO will be very unpopular with some cache owners.

(I think he meant "presages" or "precedes".)

 

Yes, this would be an unpopular move. A major structural change to the game, and a dirty trick to play on cache hiders, who are the important partners that keep the game going.

 

We've had with someone (possibly two of them) stealing caches but replacing them with inferior containers and a note telling us we've been muggled. Removing PMO caches would open up ALL caches to these scumbags.

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Now that you mention it, I've gotten to really like having a little pointer to the exact location.

 

If you look in the right place there actually are little pointers. Here's a snapshot of the preview box in the lower right on one of my cache pages. Notice how nicely contrasted the icons are from one another (and from the background)? And how easy they are to see and identify? Wow, that's one good lookin' map style right there!

 

lzDOdyi.jpg

 

This was so much better.

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Still not showing corrected coordinates on the map and now the new icons makes the original Groundspeak maps less and less attractive and usable for me.

 

Perhaps there is a perceptual bias between European and American geocachers, but it seems that the acceptance of the new icons is especially low in Europe?

 

Thanks to my browser's cache I still have glimpse of the past...

Clip0001a-1024x481.jpg

 

Additionally, at a glance, I cannot even tell the difference between a trad and an unknown. The colors are now too similar.

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[...]

My Question is how do we filter on the map for Premium caches HOW?? [...]

 

Do it just the other way round:

1. Do a NewSearch for PMO caches only.

2. Map the result. Bingo!

 

Hans

 

Ok, assuming that we wanted to use the search tool, how do we show these results on the map? (seriously - the search tool is so aesthetically displeasing, I stopped using it ages ago in favor of GSAK so I really don't even know if it's possible)

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The old icons didn't have a pointer. They were square (or round if PMO) and the location of the cache was at the centre of the icon. That appears to be the case with the new icons too.

Here's a random example of the old icons I found on Google Images:

geocaching-wickham-park.gif

 

If this isn't how they looked for you, maybe you were using a browser add-on that changed the way they looked and it's now broken by this change?

 

I really prefer this style over the new... I'm ok with the circles, it's just the design of the icons that doesn't work. Use these icons indtead and simply round them out if that's what the goal is. At least these are clear and precise. The new ones at a glance on the maps just bleed into the background.

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[*]We’ve removed the Premium Member Cache key - the circle icon that indicated on the map which caches were PMO. It was only available to Premium Members, and was not well understood or used by many users.

 

 

Ok, so.. how are we to be able to easily distinguish the difference between a PMO and a non PMO cache now?

 

This was one of the reasons so many of us are willing to pay for the membership. Please don't take these away.

Just because you may hear from a lot of noobs who don't understand, doesn't mean that it's not a highly used *and understood* feature.

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As GO Geiger said, "Please note that I do not cache with a smartphone, use a smartphone on a regular basis, or even own a smartphone. I have no intention to do any of the aforementioned things at any time in the foreseeable future and am frankly getting pretty tired of the "appification" of user interfaces."

 

I use a GPSr that I bought for geocaching and I absolutely have no desire to buy a smartphone for any reason.

 

That said, I try not to just shut down new things just because they are new...but this new update just doesn't work for me. The icon colors aren't good and the sizes don't work for me either. I don't have the eyesight of a 20 year old any more and trying to read the micro print & images in the icons is just horrid. Sorry, but the old icons worked so much better.

 

New is new, but not always improved!

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Frankly, I believe the removal of the PMO icon type only precludes presages the removal of having members and non member cache types.
Unless there is a way to hide caches from "muggles with apps", removing the ability to make caches PMO will be very unpopular with some cache owners.

(I think he meant "presages" or "precedes".)

 

Yes, this would be an unpopular move. A major structural change to the game, and a dirty trick to play on cache hiders, who are the important partners that keep the game going.

 

We've had with someone (possibly two of them) stealing caches but replacing them with inferior containers and a note telling us we've been muggled. Removing PMO caches would open up ALL caches to these scumbags.

Well, going from identifying the two types on the map to not does lead me to believe that there will become just one type. You assume it would be removal of PMO, but it would be more of the way things are going to effectively make all caches PMO, trying to force more people to buy a membership. I'm probably just blowing smoke here and it won't happen but the reason given for removing the two icons types doesn't pass muster. Confusing and not used by many?? Huh?
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Given that it's now three days since the change and no one fron HQ has commented (on issues regarding the map icons), I think we can all assume they are using their usual technique of just holding out until everyone simply gives up complaining.

 

M

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Given that it's now three days since the change and no one fron HQ has commented (on issues regarding the map icons), I think we can all assume they are using their usual technique of just holding out until everyone simply gives up complaining.M

I strongly suspect that complaints made in forums carry very little weight with TPTB. A better way is probably to contact them through the help page, and for maximum effect consider a good old-fashioned letter. The postal address is

 

Groundspeak, Inc.

837 N 34th Street, Suite 300

Seattle, WA 98103

USA

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[[...] Ok, assuming that we wanted to use the search tool, how do we show these results on the map? (seriously - the search tool is so aesthetically displeasing,[...]

 

Wow. The button "Map These Geocaches" is not obvious enough?

We're not in the 4-H Club here, aren't we?

 

Hans

 

Edit: typo

Edited by HHL
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This is horrible - bring back the old icons, please! These are somehow iconic for geocaching like the Groundspeak logo.

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It's also inconsistent. If you see the case icon in the listing and the small map in the listing it's the traditional (nice) style.

But on the big map it's the app style.

The same cache:

Listing:

CPa3MZZ.jpg

Small map:

oVY3pXr.jpg

Map:

AxY4Icx.jpg

 

I just hope Groundspeak will not change all the icons to the ugly style with the next release <_<

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This is horrible - bring back the old icons, please! These are somehow iconic for geocaching like the Groundspeak logo.

 

Very true!

 

The next change will be the icons on the cache pages :( :( :(

 

 

M

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[...]

The next change will be the icons on the cache pages :( :( :(

[...]

I hope so. blink.gif

 

patence-and-prudence-2.jpg

 

Happy Hunting

Hans

Edited by HHL
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I hope so.

What? :blink:

 

What is the benefit of the new icons? I only see cons here and massive disappointments.

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Please, please change the icons again. The new presentation is absolutely useless and forces an alternative to use the GS server unnecessarily loaded software.

 

The aggregation now takes place a zoom stage earlier, which is very unfortunate, since I e.g. Had built my paper cards inside on the 3rd level.

 

The detection of PMO caches has been completely impossible.

 

The new symbols take more view on the map than before.

 

The filter "found hide" is also defective.

 

The loading times of the map with the new symbols have grown astronomically.

 

Please please - at least for premium members a Classic Modus !!!!

Edited by Jaeckel
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Please please - at least for premium members a Classic Modus !!!!

+1

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Challenge: Find the "GPS Adventures Exhibit"

 

a5dbc2436e5e9b5cdfffda8bbf0103b0.png

 

Frohes Jagen

Hans

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I don't really care myself about the icons' look - it is much more relevant to me that the map that they are on is still showing all the locations' names backwards in Arabic & Hebrew for months now, and the problem is still unsolved.

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I don't really care myself about the icons' look - it is much more relevant to me that the map that they are on is still showing all the locations' names backwards in Arabic & Hebrew for months now, and the problem is still unsolved.

 

That's been identified as a fault with the map service provider, so GS have no control over it not the ability to fix it.

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well just did a small test with the account of a friend that doesnt have premium on it and guess i can log the cache

My link and this is a premium only cache

ground speak come on guys stop acting like a ostrish pull your head out of the dirt get behind your desks and fix the problems you caused this month

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well just did a small test with the account of a friend that doesnt have premium on it and guess i can log the cache

My link and this is a premium only cache

 

It's not and has never been premium. (Found it in 2012 and have original listing in GSAK).

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well just did a small test with the account of a friend that doesnt have premium on it and guess i can log the cache

My link and this is a premium only cache

 

It's not and has never been premium. (Found it in 2012 and have original listing in GSAK).

 

my bad i just checked you are right guys

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my bad i just checked you are right guys

 

Members can log PM caches though. Has been so for years.

This has nothing to do with the flawed way the maps work now though.

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Well, I'll add on my two cents. I've got to say, I don't really like it. Here are a few reasons why:

 

- The same shape for every cache (regardless of cache type, found caches or owned caches) really hurts my eyes. I don't like how colour is now the only distinguishing feature. Traditionals and unknowns are very hard to distinguish unless you're up close.

- I feel really bad for colourblind folk.

- The colour of traditionals and owned caches are too similar, and both are very similar to the colour of parks in the Geocaching map layer (and other map layers too).

- Disabled caches are almost invisible on many map layers, including the Geocaching layer. The grey circle blends in to the grey background to the point where I can barely see it at all.

- On some layers, without distinguishing shapes, multis blend in to roads and unknown caches blend in to water features.

- All caches types are difficult to distinguish between various features and locations on Google Map, as Google Maps also uses circles of roughly the same size (depending on zoom level).

- The white star in the owned cache icon isn't visible at zoom levels 13 and 12. It's just a white dot? At these higher zooms, owned caches are practically indistinguishable from traditional caches.

- Premium member caches are indistinguishable.

- At far zoom levels the cache icons appear really small (and it's hard to see cache types with only differences in colour), and at closer zoom levels the cache icons seem very large? There's a definite change in icon size between zoom levels 13 and 14. It's kinda weird?

- The whole style looks cartoonish and juvenile.

 

I really liked the previous map layout; I don't think it was broken or needed fixing at all. And in my mind the map is probably the most important feature for geocaching.com. This new update seems to remove information and make map readability more difficult.

You saved me a whole lot of typing there, I agree absolutely with all your points.

 

The new icon design is poor: it may delight a web or app. designer when seen isolated on a white background, but looked at on a background of any map layer, visibility is poor at best. Insufficient contrast, lack of stand out shapes, and bad colour choices were all missed opportunities to make the new map icons user friendly.

Not pretty, or fashionable,or like the app. , just useable.

 

Here's some expert advice., and a quick search yielded plenty of results pointing to research on map colours for folk with colour perception difficulties including this.and this.

 

To have apparently been ignorant of the colour perception problems of around 8% of the male population is a failure Groundspeak should be hugely embarassed by, I can't imagine any trained graphic designer being unaware of the implications of using colour like this.

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Just discovered a bug with this map. If I zoom out to view the whole of the UK, then deselect all cache types except CITOs, I get to see where all forthcoming CITOs will be. However, it also shows the GPS Maze Europe event (GC66HYC) held in Llangollen last August. Previously I'm sure this had it's own icon that could be deselected.

 

Incidentally, isn't it about time the Maze Event was archived?

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I am finding it very difficult to use the geocaching maps with the new icons on the maps. The circle around the cache graphic makes it difficult to make out what type of geocache I am looking at unless I go to a very close view. This makes it difficult to plan a route for the day or pick an area with a certain type of cache available. The blue and green look much alike as do orange and yellow (if I am showing found caches as well).

 

I much prefer the previous maps where I was able to tell the cache type readily by its shape, even from a distance. The green treasure box, double yellow (multi) and large question mark (sometimes a ghost when viewed in a large area) were more easily distinguished.

 

When the maps are printed and used while traveling in low light conditions, the icons were also easier to make out.

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I have taken on board most of the geocaching updates but I feel I have to complain about the latest map update.

I do not have an app phone and you have disabled any contact by windows on the phone. I use a gps to geocache and a laptop to log. The way the caches are showing on the map now is totally unhelpful. The icons are too small to be identified unless they become large and distorted. Why not create the app to come in line with the computer or are you totally against people to using a laptop now and only interested in those who cache with a mobile?

Edited by Netty227
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Since the official app seems to be the tail wagging the dog, I wonder if we should be taking our complaints over here instead. Maybe if we can convince them to make changes to the app, they'll later make the same changes to the website?

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Release Notes - December 6, 2016

 

Today’s release brings more design consistency to the Geocaching map as seen on Geocaching.com and the Geocaching® app.

 

[*]All icons on the website map now match what you’ve already been seeing on the Search results page. The new icon colors also match up with the app.

 

[*]The views at various zoom levels on the Geocaching.com map are now more similar to the app. For instance, when you’re zoomed farther out, caches are denoted by a smaller dot icon with color only.

 

[*]When you zoom in, you’ll see larger icons with more detail.

 

[*]We have recategorized the Filterable Cache Types to match the mobile app.

 

Nadja from HQ’s product team is watching the thread to answer questions whenever possible.

 

Why not update the appp to match the pre-existing website, instead of creating theapp and then changing the website to match?

And why do they even need to match?

I wonder how many players use both (app and website maps).

Just curious.

 

EDIT: the A-TEAM posted while I was writing this...seems we were both thinking along the same lines

Edited by Bon Echo
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Given that it's now three days since the change and no one fron HQ has commented (on issues regarding the map icons), I think we can all assume they are using their usual technique of just holding out until everyone simply gives up complaining.M

I strongly suspect that complaints made in forums carry very little weight with TPTB.

I suspect you're correct, but it's still confusing. After all, many of the forum regulars are very knowledgeable and collectively have provided truckloads of outstanding feedback and suggestions in the past, but that all seems to get cast aside in favour of other contact methods.

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I was happy with the system the way it was. Do not like some of the icons

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Since the official app seems to be the tail wagging the dog, I wonder if we should be taking our complaints over here instead. Maybe if we can convince them to make changes to the app, they'll later make the same changes to the website?

 

Tried that, months ago. That worked out about as well as I'm guessing these complaints will.

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I just noticed another flaw. At zoom levels 12 and 13, the owned icon is indecipherable. I suspect someone just took the icon used at the higher zoom levels and shrunk it down, but that led to a significant loss in detail and the icon is now a green circle with an indistinct white blob in the middle.

owned_icon.png

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At zoom levels 12 and 13, the owned icon is indecipherable.

 

 

Similar to that, the found smiley becomes too small and ugly (IMO) at those levels. It has to fit within the white outline and it's just too small. And the shade of yellow also changed, now it's too "lemon-y", it was warmer and better before. It'd be nice to have and option to change to the old style.

Found areas of the map (and completed geoarts) don't look as pretty as they used to. This is just me though.

Edited by pgavlak
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