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rinos, anyone?


Seth!

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Hi there! I'm wondering if anyone in our area (Seattle and beyond) is using a Rino. How about, is anyone thinking about it? Have it on your Christmas list?

 

I'd like to know what people think of them and if there will be others using them. I don't know if I'll be getting one any time soon myself, but this discussion could affect my decision.

 

(Yes, I've seen the threads in the GPS receivers forum.)

 

Seth!

 

icon_geocachingwa.gif

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Last I heard they were still trying to get the legal stuff squared away. I gave up waiting for them to come out. They sound neat at first, but the whole point of having them is so you can see where other Rino users are. Since my wife just sprung $50 for two FRS radios for my birthday though, I doubt I'll be able to talk her into getting 2 more GPS/radios icon_frown.gif Let us know what you think if/when you get one though icon_smile.gif

 

"What do you mean they don't eat no meat?!?"

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There's a backlog on orders, though. Places like TVNAV.com have been getting them in and then shipping them out immediately. TVNAV.com said that they are expecting Garmin to deliver the next batch the first week in December. That will fill all backorders placed at TVNAV.com up through November 10, and then sometime after that the company will receive additional supply.

 

I've been going back and forth on whether I want to get a Rino. It's a cool item, but only if there are others around you also using it.

 

icon_geocachingwa.gif

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Am I the only one to be completely UNexcited by this product? It's a cool concept but unproven so far as I know. I just see little practical use for it.

Won't work in the mall (or similar) where

1. most use the FRS and

2. you might want to keep track of your kids. (not going to let them wander that far away in the forest, right?)

 

So, why? I must be missing something.......

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It's the ugliest rig I've ever seen but I think It's really cool! It's something worth having. I just wish they had a 440 Mhz. (70cm) Ham Radio version. FRS is kinda cool but too noisy in some areas. Besides with 440 Mhz (And the apropriate license) you can use more power. 500 mw just does not cut it for me. I've been caching using FRS radios in hilly areas and even though we were less than a mile away the signal is still choppy due to terrain.

 

Randall J. Berry

davros@mdgps.net

MicroLogo.jpg

 

www.mdgps.net

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One use I see for these is snowmobiling. Just about every time we go out, one member of our group gets stuck in powder and separated from the group. At the next stop, we look around for him, then make the call on the radios to see if he is OK. The response is usually, "Yes! Now come help me dig my sled out!" Then we go through a game of trying to figure out just where he is. The Rinos would solve that.

 

I could also see some potential new GPS games springing up using the technology.

 

icon_geocachingwa.gif

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FRS is actually GMRS with a reduced power limit 500Mw instead of 5W. You will still get the noise you get on FRS if it were GMRS. That is unfortunatly due to over population, as well as those obnoxious beeps and boops that manufactures insist on putting into FRS radios whenever you transmit.

 

Not to mention when the FCC opened that portion of the band to Part 15 devices of every nature started to pop up on those frequencies not just FRS. Devices such as remote controled cars and planes, garage door openers, UHF appliance remote controls, tons of other wireless devices that also raise the noise floor and limits your range.

 

The differences between the two is FRS uses the original secondary channels on GMRS (5W @12.5 Khz split) These channels were orginaly meant for lowered power point to point and no repeaters. The primary GMRS channels are 25 Khz apart power limited to 50W. ie 462.525-550-575-600. Repeater offset on 467.525-550 (you get the idea) with the 14 secondary frequencies in between.

 

Your GMRS license originally gave you all 14 channels by default. Even if you put a Rino on GMRS primary channels chances are you would still get noise or interferance from repeater traffic. Not to mention operators probably don't want data bursts on the primary channels.

 

440 ham band would be the best bet. Yes, you would need a license but the bottom half of the 440 band is seldom used for much. There would be less noise. And data packets are an accepted mode of communication.

 

Besides on 440 band I can talk for about 2 miles on 500Mw. If it's a respectable repeater I've used 500Mw for at least 12 miles full quieting. (No extra noise on my signal)

 

Oh.. I forgot to add FRS radios purposely have an inefficient antenna to prevent you from talking too far.

 

Randall J. Berry

davros@mdgps.net

MicroLogo.jpg

 

www.mdgps.net

 

[This message was edited by Davros on November 26, 2002 at 10:56 PM.]

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quote:
Originally posted by Seth!:

Hi there! I'm wondering if anyone in our area (Seattle and beyond) is using a Rino. How about, is anyone thinking about it? Have it on your Christmas list?


 

I thought of the same thing. The Rino would be cool, but only if other people were planning on buying them. I'm not sure if they ever will be popular enough to be of much use. Maybe your club could make a group purchase.

 

I am also looking at the new bluetooth GPS paired with a bluetooh PDA, see: Palm Store. It seems to me that bluetooth is a better way of pairing two technologies instead of physically merging them. Also, you can add things like a bluetooth phone to get the coordinates/hints from geocaching.com etc.

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I got in on a great deal, basicly the same price as a legend after the rebate. They are built better than the etrex line too, and with more features, plus a quad antenna.

 

Of course I could be biased by one other feature.19143_1300.jpg

 

but I am sure nobody on the coast would find this usefull!

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Too High? icon_confused.gif I think for what you are getting the price is right in the ball park. OK, I admit I got a great deal on mine thanks to a mismark (199.95) but even at 250 for a legend with a quad antenna and a radio to boot I think it's a great deal.

 

There is no liscence required for the use of the frs radio, it's only if you want to use the gmrs portion wich you can turn off if you don't want to pay. It's also not a one time fee, I think it is for three years.

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The basic Rhino only has 1mb of memory and you can only broadcast point to point in a two mile radius. I have a couple excellant frs radio's and two miles is pushing it. For what they are asking for one Rhino you could buy two basic etreks and 2 frs radios. Strap them both together with some duct tape or velcro and wala, two home made Rhino's for the price of one.

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Only if you forget a couple of things, like a quad antennae, peer to peer, larger screen, maping, a belt clip, games, proximity waypoints, alarm clock, the little guy with the spiked hair and sunglasses that shows up on other peoples rino's when I transmit, plus the ability to drink imports without bringing a bottle opener!

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quote:
Originally posted by niskibum:

Only if you forget a couple of things, like a quad antennae, peer to peer, larger screen, maping, a belt clip, games, proximity waypoints, alarm clock, the little guy with the spiked hair and sunglasses that shows up on other peoples rino's when I transmit, plus the ability to drink imports without bringing a bottle opener!


 

Basically what he is saying is: him and I have done the research, have the units, tested the units, and are telling you why what you say is wrong and most of the debates are over mis information.

 

2 etrexes and 2 radios does not match up to one rino 120 clearly, but hay! why fight over it, its meerly opinions against opinions right? icon_wink.gificon_razz.gif

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Have you tested this with another Rhino user in different conditions with the criteria I have described above? How well does it transmit in the woods, bad weather, etc? How good are the FRS units? Is the message you send to your friend broken up or grabled? If you have not tried this, I want you and another Rhino user to go out in the city, and woods, and test it out. Get 2 miles apart, and tell me if you can still broadcast your points and talk to each other without any breaking up. Then try the same test in a wooded area. My point is this. Gramin has made a lot of hype about the new Rhino's but I honestly would believe you more than Garmin. Garmin is out to sell their toy. You are out to give me your honest opinion. I'm not bashing the RHino, but before I pay out $165 - $200 I just want to see how well they work.

 

Another thing? I read a review from a gentleman who bought 3 of the Rhino's. The slightest impact can cause them to lose power and require that the power be switched back on. Does anyone else have this problem?

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quote:
Originally posted by Criminal:

Am I the only one to be completely UNexcited by this product? It's a cool concept but unproven so far as I know. I just see little practical use for it.

Won't work in the mall (or similar) where

1. most use the FRS and

2. you might want to keep track of your kids. (not going to let them wander that far away in the forest, right?)

 

So, why? I must be missing something.......


 

My roommate and I often explore areas independantly while caching, and its easy to loose track of eachother outdoors. We had been considering getting some radios, but might get a pair of rhinos for ease of transmitting actual location.

 

I can see various camping/hiking situations where it would be good too, for easily letting someone at camp know your position...

 

Whether its worth the price tag for the convenience of not reading off a handful of numbers, who knows icon_wink.gif

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I can see some limited uses for them. However, FRS range, especially given the -7db rating of the antenna, gives you a radio that has a range not much beyond that of a good shout (I am guessing). I'm not knocking the product or the maker thereof, it seems like it was the best compromise of all the limiting factors. For example, you want better range and higher wattage? You need more (heavier) batteries. If you try to push 2 watts on only 4AA batteries and power the GPS portion of the unit, the life of the batteries will be impractically short.

 

I guess if I didn’t already have a V and was in the market for a GPS unit, the Rhino would warrant consideration at least. I doubt, nonetheless, that I would choose this unit. It’s a great idea but it has far too many limitations to be practically useful IMHO.

 

How would I improve it? Make it GMRS only which would allow for an antenna jack and more antenna options, like a mag mount one for auto use. Boost power to a full 2 watts and use higher tech batteries like the lithium ones in the surefire flashlight. Maybe a Rhino 130?

 

http://fp1.centurytel.net/Criminal_Page/

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quote:

 

How would I improve it? Make it GMRS only which would allow for an antenna jack and more antenna options, like a mag mount one for auto use. Boost power to a full 2 watts and use higher tech batteries like the lithium ones in the surefire flashlight. Maybe a Rhino 130?


 

Only problem with these improvements are 1 - No data tranmission allowed on GMRS frequencies, so you remove the ability to broadcast your location to others and 2 - Rhinos are not capable of broadcasting on GMRS input channels (they operate simplex only) so even GMRS range is minimal as they cannot take advantage of the GMRS system repeaters.

 

I think this is a good start, but there is still some work to be done. Of course we now have location aware cell phones and single chip GPSr solutions. The next year or two will see some big changes in this technology I think.

 

Life is as much a journey of discovery, as it is a discovery of the journey...

 

**Namaste**

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quote:
Originally posted by Criminal:

I guess if I didn’t already have a V and was in the market for a GPS unit, the Rhino would warrant consideration at least. I doubt, nonetheless, that I would choose this unit. It’s a _great_ idea but it has far too many limitations to be practically useful _IMHO_.


 

Oh, certainly its limited icon_smile.gif I've been bitten from being an early adopter on several occasions, I think I'll stay on the bench this round. Seems like a neat gadget, but I can think of better uses for the cash.

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I have heard the Cobra is coming out with 18 channel GPS units, and will have a competitor with the rino unit... this should prove interesting

 

I am still trying to decide why, or IF, a garmin Vista is better than a Magellan 315--- as far as tracking goes, and getting coordinates in moderate tree cover, the Magellan outperforms (antanna difference i surmise)

 

zuuk

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You can get a 120 for about 200 bucks, not much more than a legend, with all the features of a legend and then some, plus a quad antenna! If you think you can shout out your coords for over a mile and be understood, please don't go near my hunting areas.

 

The gpsr itself is worth the money, the radio and the games etc. are just gravy. I haven't had any problems with battery life while using the radio, they take three AA's and I have used mine for several hours with rechargables and not had to change them out.

 

I prefer to be out playing with a new toy instead of waiting to see what the next generation will be. It's not really that much money for a good gpsr with some features that nothing else has.

 

[This message was edited by niskibum on January 24, 2003 at 06:30 AM.]

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Check out this thread where Jeremy mentions Rhino games.

 

Some of you have mentioned that Rhinos come with "games". I haven't actually had my mits on a Rhino yet so I'm not sure if that means mini versions of video games or something else entirely. Like I would think that Rhinos have great potential for event type, multi-player games. A "find the moving target" game could be played in areas that have a complex maze of trails. Or you could have a flag or other object that one team is trying to prevent another team from capturing. Sort of like paintball except instead of paint geocachers could fling McToys at each other. "Hey Seth! I hit you with a plastic dinosaur man, you're out!" Not exactly geocaching but it sounds like fun.

 

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quote:
Originally posted by niskibum:

If you think you can shout out your coords for over a mile and be understood, please don't go near my hunting areas.


 

Are you saying that you are getting over a mile in range? If so, then they're better than I've been led to believe. My point was that if your effective range was only a couple hundred yards, what's the point? And which hunting areas are yours? icon_wink.gif

 

quote:
The gpsr itself is worth the money, the radio and the games etc. are just gravy. I haven't had any problems with battery life while using the radio, they take three AA's and I have used mine for several hours with rechargables and not had to change them out.

 

My short battery life comment was made about a 2 or 5 watt unit, which doesn't currently exist. I was pointing out how the Rhino had to compromise certain key features to make it all work together. I'm not an expert, but I doubt 3AA batteries could provide enough current to power the GPS portion of the unit at the same time you were transmitting at a full 2 watts. Even if it could, the battery life of such a (hypothetical) unit would be very short.

 

quote:
I prefer to be out playing with a new toy instead of waiting to see what the next generation will be. It's not really that much money for a good gpsr with some features that nothing else has.

 

I think what Mr.Snazz (correct me if I'm wrong) was saying, and I'm in agreement with, is that the first generation of anything is usually not the best, insofar as features and bugs. It's the same with cars, software, and all. So you run out and buy the next greatest thing and six months later a far better unit comes along and blows it away with better features and price. I simply don't make the kind of money that would allow me to do that anyway.

 

Overall I am impressed with the unit and with Garmin for thinking of it. My opinion is that it would have been better on GMRS (which I've since learned is not possible) or an amateur freq instead, with more power and an external antenna option.

 

http://fp1.centurytel.net/Criminal_Page/

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I am definitly getting better than a mile with the radio, and I think the radio is better than many people have been led to believe. As for my hunting area, just drive down that old dirt road, hang a left at the big rock, and park by the big tree on the right. icon_biggrin.gif

 

If they develop a newer unit with a 2 to 5 watt radio, and it takes bigger batteries than the AA's I don't think I would want to carry it around in the woods. The 120 is a pretty nice size, and the rechargable AA's are very convienant.

 

I agree that there will be some better units developed, but probably not for some time and I would bet that they won't even be close to the price of the current units. I think $200 is dirt cheap for what you get. I do like the idea of an external antenna port, but the range so far has been satisfactory.

 

What surprises me is that for a new product the amount of bugs has been minimal! So far the only ones I know of are the internal mic volume and the sub-channels on channel 22. Both of which have already been fixed by free software upgrades. Anyone else know of any other bugs yet?

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Some friends of mine got a pair of these (120s)for Christmas. We went out and tried them on New Years Day, and they seemed to perform OK. Of course, the separation of the units was limited, and there was no tree cover or other 'interference'. I still think I would rather tote two separate units, and accordingly went out and bought a pair of Cobra Micro-talks to use when I am out with friends. If one (GPSr or a radio) gives out, I still have another toy to play with. icon_biggrin.gif

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Explain fixed antenna. I'm not sure what you mean.

quote:
Originally posted by Criminal:

FRS rules require a fixed antenna.


 

I have a Kenwood FRS with a folding antenna. I know Cobra has them too. Are you talking about something else?

 

geomark8.gif

If you do not extend your expectations unto others, you will not be disappointed by the stupid things they do.

Mokita!

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The FRS rules require that the antenna be non-removable, you can rotate it down if such a rotation thrills you, but you can't pull it off the radio. The FCC dosen't want you getting too much range, attaching an antenna to the roof of you house so you can call your kids would do that.

 

EDIT: My Motorola Distance DPS has FRS channels and a removable antenna. Must have been made before the rules.

 

http://fp1.centurytel.net/Criminal_Page/

 

[This message was edited by Criminal on January 25, 2003 at 08:18 PM.]

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Resurrection of Dead Thread Complete!

 

After a few months of using your Rino's, what do you feel about it now?

 

For my part, I have no doubt in my mind that I chose the right GPSr my 120 - it works beautifully. I did send it in to Garmin, and it came back better than before - the transmit and receive is much better than it was. The foam strips in the battery compartment help with the 'Shock-power-off' feature. Haven't purchased a map for it yet, but it will be metro when I can afford it.

 

I use 2000mAh rechargeables, and keep a set of spares with me. I noticed that radio communication really drains the batteries fast - Caching alone (My Lovely Wife and I) we can usually run 8-12 hours on one set of batteries. When caching with friends that have radios, the batteries will drain within 4 hours (average).

 

Things I wish:

1. To use the unused 8mb map/topo memory for waypoints and tracks.

2. To be able to recharge the batteries with an external power source.

 

What's your Mileage?

 

Cadence

(OddTodd and CheleBell)

FRS2,12GMRS22(WPXD965)

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