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RakeInTheCache

Ansel Adams Lost in (Cyber) Space

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Category leader and second of three officers no longer active in Waymarking. Third officer has not logged in in several weeks.

 

Three e-mails sent to the third officer using different methods (Waymarking, Geocaching, private e-mail address) with the following text.

 

"Hello there, I've been trying to contact you for a few days as a category officer via Waymarking and Geocaching about the Ansel Adams photo hunt category. I see that the leader and a second officer seem to no longer be active in Waymarking. This is a very interesting category and I think it would be a good thing if there were more active officers participating. I would be willing to join the officer club to assist and there are probably others as well. I think that if you start a vote to promote me it should be successful as you will be the only one voting. I now have quite a few waymarks waiting for review. Thank you, best regards, RitC. "

 

No response received thus far.

 

Nine waymarks waiting for approval, one since October 19.

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Cool! That was a Category that I started when the site first launched. Due to various issues, I was unable to properly manage the group and I was booted off the group and replaced. I suspect that the Leader, and others, are probably on *sabbatical* and will show up eventually.

 

Looks like silverquill has been doing the majority of the approvals in the Category, and my guess is that they'll get to it soon. There's loads of people that could get promoted to Officer. Maybe the Mod can facilitate that?

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I suspect that the Leader, and others, are probably on *sabbatical* and will show up eventually.

 

I often get the feeling that officers and leaders don't realize how frustrating it is for submitters when all of them have gone on "sabbatical". I would hope that they do care.

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I suspect that the Leader, and others, are probably on *sabbatical* and will show up eventually.

 

I often get the feeling that officers and leaders don't realize how frustrating it is for submitters when all of them have gone on "sabbatical". I would hope that they do care.

 

Sometimes there are things that happen in people's lives that take a much higher priority than Waymarking and approving Waymarks. When I was battling cancer I got a couple somewhat rude emails when waymarks were not approved fast enough a "frustrated" Waymarker, I think it might have been a whole 2 weeks.

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Sometimes there are things that happen in people's lives that take a much higher priority than Waymarking and approving Waymarks. When I was battling cancer I got a couple somewhat rude emails when waymarks were not approved fast enough a "frustrated" Waymarker, I think it might have been a whole 2 weeks.

 

Of course from the Waymarker's perspective, they might have no idea what's going on. The way the system is set up, the approval process is not supposed to depend on one person. Unfortunately, in my opinion, too often it has turned into that.

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Update : The first of my waiting waymarks was declined without any explanation in the description area. Strange, because normally the system is set up to prevent that.

 

Then I received an e-mail from the leader who for some reason which I don't know thought that I hadn't visited the site. I returned the message asking for clarification and whether I should update the waymark in any way. So far no reply. I re submitted the waymark for approval.

 

As I don't believe the leader is active in the forums, I was curious as to how he became aware there were waymarks waiting (I had not sent any e-mail to him believing he was no longer active). Maybe it was just a coincidence. I sent a second e-mail to inquire.

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As I don't believe the leader is active in the forums, I was curious as to how he became aware there were waymarks waiting (I had not sent any e-mail to him believing he was no longer active). Maybe it was just a coincidence. I sent a second e-mail to inquire.

 

There are many people who do not ever post in the forums but do read them often. Also when things get posted in the forums, it is easy for others, including friends of leader, to see it and look up the group and inform the leader of the post.

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Update : I received clarification a few days ago, rapidly made requested changes and resubmitted the waymarks. Now waiting ...

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... still waiting (sound of fingers drumming the desktop) ... While I was waiting I was just thumbing through the Waymarking FAQ and discovered this ...

 

"It became clear to us early on that having a single person manage a category had the potential of causing many frustrating delays in getting new waymarks reviewed. We know that not everyone has the time to refresh the website every five minutes, waiting for new waymark submissions to hit the queue. And what if the category manager goes on vacation?"

 

Well, yes, I see the point.

 

"We came up with the idea of Groups as a way for multiple people to share the work load. This is accomplished by sending email notifications to all Officers of the Group whenever a new waymark is submitted for review. We believe this will prevent categories from being abandoned and potentially cause a category to languish, sadly neglected, while new waymarks pile up at the door. "

 

Yes, indeed, that wouldn't be a good thing.

 

Now, as a manager of several categories myself, I don't find it particularly difficult to maintain a group of officers that are active enough to keep waymark submissions from piling up or waymarkers from waiting a long time. I wonder why some managers would seem to find it so challenging ...

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still waiting. I'll try sending a reminder to his geocaching address.

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No response to my e-mail. For the record, here's the last communication received from the category manager.

 

"Yes, please add in to the description of the pictures that you took to indicate that you are providing a similar picture from the location Ansel Adams took the picture you are replicating. In addition, you should upload the Ansel Adams picture that you are showcasing to show the photograph replication goal for this waymark location. I am active almost daily on the geocaching.com web site. I am a site volunteer and reviewer. Though I am no longer active in the forums, I do know other people that are since I have been around for so long. Sorry your waymarks have been waiting. If you get those updates done, I will move them along for you. Thanks ..."

 

Here was my response.

 

Hello, Thanks for the feedback, I'll make the requested updates. However, unless I missed something, I did, in fact, upload the Ansel Adams photo for each of these waymarks? Is there anything missing in what I had uploaded? Best regards, RitC

 

Here was my reminder e-mail.

 

Hi there, just a friendly reminder that I have several waymarks waiting for review in the Ansel Adams category. If you are having difficulty keeping up with the workload, or have lost interest in the hobby I would be happy to become an officer or take over management of the category. Best regards Ritc.

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You have not added a description to the photos as I have asked. I have checked these to see if they have been modified, including just now. The pictures have no descriptions, so you can't tell which is the Ansel Adams photo and which is yours. You need to clarify.

 

In addition, if you would quit replying without your email address and just send me your email address, communication would be much easier. The Waymarking site is difficult to use on communication, but your email from the geocaching site also did not include your email for easy reply. Frankly, it's easy just to contact someone through the message system. It works with the apps and is very easy to use.

 

I am sending you a message through the message system right now to get this resolved for you.

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You have not added a description to the photos as I have asked. I have checked these to see if they have been modified, including just now. The pictures have no descriptions, so you can't tell which is the Ansel Adams photo and which is yours. You need to clarify.

 

Ok, I got it. I've started resubmitting the updated waymarks with the labelled photos.

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You have not added a description to the photos as I have asked. I have checked these to see if they have been modified, including just now. The pictures have no descriptions, so you can't tell which is the Ansel Adams photo and which is yours. You need to clarify.

 

Ok, I got it. I've started resubmitting the updated waymarks with the labelled photos.

 

Has this been resolved to everyone's satisfaction?

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Has this been resolved to everyone's satisfaction?

 

Still waiting for my waymarks to be approved. I'm debating whether to update the others until the first ones are approved.

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Has this been resolved to everyone's satisfaction?

 

Still waiting for my waymarks to be approved. I'm debating whether to update the others until the first ones are approved.

 

Why not update them all that way they can all be approved at once. Makes zero sense to wait.

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Why not update them all that way they can all be approved at once. Makes zero sense to wait.

 

In fact, I think it makes perfect sense to wait (again maybe not from your perspective but definitely from the waymarkers perspective). Deleting the pictures, labelling them and uploading making sure the right photo is uploaded for the right label is time consuming. What if I misunderstood some other requirement? What if they were all rejected again? Then I would have wasted my time.

 

What problem could there be for the category manager to approve waymarks one at a time? Might they be too occupied with other things to be able to focus on the category?

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Why not update them all that way they can all be approved at once. Makes zero sense to wait.

 

By the way, I'm curious to know your perspective on the importance of having an active officer group. Do you think it's necessary or only optional? Does it bother you when your waymarks don't get approved for a long time? Are you willing to just forget about them if the category goes dormant? And what if you reach out to an officer and don't get a response? Does it make you frustrated?

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Perhaps, for some clarity, a look at the guidelines are in order.

 

Description:

This category is an attempt to document the exact locations that became the subjects of the great photographer, Ansel Adams. There are pictures (all busted) and detailed information about Ansel Adams (I have omitted)

 

"Instructions for Posting a Ansel Adams Photo Hunt Waymark:

It's simple: try and find the spot where Ansel Adams stood to take one of his photographs.

 

Post the coordinates of the location along with your picture, and the Ansel Adams image you are trying to duplicate."

 

Hypothetically speaking, we located an Ansel Adams location. Tried to stand in the closest proximity to the spot Ansel Adams stood and took our pictures (let say five) one is almost exact, considering the changes to the area over time.

 

After returning home, I take another look at the guidelines. Okay, I have fulfilled the first requirement (I have my picture)

 

Second requirement; I have my exact coordinates of the location. "along with my picture and the Ansel Adams image you are trying to duplicate"

 

Okay, I post at a minimum two pictures 1. my photograph that is a close replica of Ansel Adams and Ansel Adams photograph of the location.

 

I am not required to write anything, so I will not.

 

I am ready to submit my waymark.

 

Now the decline, You did not label your pictures, and you did not write anything in the long description. Where does it specify these two requirements in the instructions?

 

Overview, in the history there are no waymarks denied for lack of labeling the pictures, however all approved waymarks the pictures are labelled. How did the submitter know to do this, and not be in the posted instructions. (one can only speculate)

 

No long description: Again where does it say you have to include information in the long description?

 

Conclusion: I met the posted requirements in the instructions for posting, why is it declined? (Hypothetically speaking)

 

We always read the guidelines for a new category we are trying to post. This is all we have to assist us with that new submission.

 

I was not familiar with the category until now, and have tried to present this from that perspective. (a new submitter to the category)

Edited by BK-Hunters
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My view: once you know what is wrong with your propsedvWMs, fix them all at once and resubmit. Why prolong the process? Fix and be done - on to the next set of pictures! :)

 

There are a handful of categories with very specific and technical requirements. AAPH is one, Texas Historic Markers is another, Bridge date stones, Grave of a Famous Person, Statues of Historic Figures, and ISS sightings, are other examples.

 

BKH's point to look at the requirements is a good one: I review requirements of categories that I have posted dozens of WMs in, if it has been a while since I added one in that category. Also, new officers mean new standards of review, and sometimes new requirements. It never hurts to look, and only takes a short while to review the category requirements.

 

I know the frustration of picking up a decline in one of these categories over a technical issue (especially when it's an icon), but in each case I have had help from reviewers with what to fix. I fixed my issues, got approved, and moved on.

 

Rarely I have had to send an email, either to request a review after 7-10 days has gone by without a review, or to release a waymark stuck in the voting bug. 7-10 days is my personal standard to send a POLITE email; other waymarkers are willing to wait longer (or shorter) times. But when I have, this is my email that almost always works: "Hi (reviewer name) -- this is a polite email to ask if there is anything I need to add to my proposed email (waymark) to get it approved. I am happy to make any changes COs desire. If you could take a look at it and let me know, I'd appreciate it. Thanks and happy Waymarking to you! :) Mama Blaster"

 

No one can really know why a category goes dormant. Life changes, computer crashes, illnesses, work overloads, long trips - there are a million reasons why. But I have found a kind email, without accusations of inability to manage the category, works wonders.

 

I am also impressed that mtn-man is trying so many ways to help, after reading this thread. That tells me they want submissions to the category, are reasonable people, and will cooperate and communicate to resolve issues. That's a good combination.

 

I hope the saga will end soon and with everyone happy. For me, I have some new photos to process, so I will be happily Waymarking today :)

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BKH's point to look at the requirements is a good one: I review requirements of categories that I have posted dozens of WMs in, if it has been a while since I added one in that category. Also, new officers mean new standards of review, and sometimes new requirements. It never hurts to look, and only takes a short while to review the category requirements.

 

I believe the point of the previous post was regarding the fact that the waymarks are being judged based on criteria which are not written down in the category description.

 

No one can really know why a category goes dormant. Life changes, computer crashes, illnesses, work overloads, long trips - there are a million reasons why.

 

True, that's why the group concept was introduced so that approval would not depend on one person's computer crashing, one persons illness, or one persons work overload, or one person's long trip. Pretty smart idea if you ask me. However, in many cases groups are not being maintained as they should be and the principle of the concept is being thwarted. This is something that can be avoided by category managers being more conscientious.

 

But I have found a kind email, without accusations of inability to manage the category, works wonders.

 

Yes, i agree it can. The question here is what happens when you reach out multiple times and don't get any response. It also happens a lot.

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I see only two such waymarks.

 

*We All Have to Share this Sandbox, So Play Nice*

 

That statement is in the waymark category visit instructions. How appropriate.

Edited by elyob
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After all this drama, the waymarks are not at all what I expected.

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Rest of the waymarks reviewed case closed, reviewer thanked.

 

But the general subject of how groups are managed remains open. All of this "drama" as it's been called could have been avoided if the category manager had kept the group active. I can't say that I had much success in convincing the category manager to revisit the group composition (undoubtedly my fault) - but who knows, maybe he'll come around...

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I see only two such waymarks.

 

*We All Have to Share this Sandbox, So Play Nice*

 

That statement is in the waymark category visit instructions. How appropriate.

Just for reference, I added that line back in the day that I was managing that particular Category. I was seeing a number of submissions that didn't even come close to fulfilling the intent of what I was getting at. I basically got the idea from an annual gathering in Yosemite to duplicate the famous ""Moonrise from Glacier Point" image. Looking around, I saw an entire cult of followers that were trying to document where Ansel stood, and the exact conditions, to reproduce his iconic photos.

 

Back to BK-Hunters issue: I basically didn't include any requirement for captions or descriptions (although that would be nice), because my focus was on the coordinates and the pictures. I'm not involved in the Category anymore, but I thought some background might be helpful.

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I see only two such waymarks.

 

*We All Have to Share this Sandbox, So Play Nice*

 

That statement is in the waymark category visit instructions. How appropriate.

Just for reference, I added that line back in the day that I was managing that particular Category. I was seeing a number of submissions that didn't even come close to fulfilling the intent of what I was getting at. I basically got the idea from an annual gathering in Yosemite to duplicate the famous ""Moonrise from Glacier Point" image. Looking around, I saw an entire cult of followers that were trying to document where Ansel stood, and the exact conditions, to reproduce his iconic photos.

 

Back to BK-Hunters issue: I basically didn't include any requirement for captions or descriptions (although that would be nice), because my focus was on the coordinates and the pictures. I'm not involved in the Category anymore, but I thought some background might be helpful.

 

It was an excellent idea. Thanks for your contribution. These locations are very special.

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