"Other" Geocache size

[+Chofman1]

Forgive me if this has already been discussed on this forum. I've noticed the few who are quick to point out that a subject is being revisited, which makes a me a little hesitant to start a thread. Believe me, I used the search option to do a little research but I couldn't find the specifics to answer this question.

 

I am proposing hiding a pellet container about the size of a can of smokeless tobacco. Inside will be doll house items, baseball, teddy bear, camera. In the description I will refer to this as an ammo can, which it is. I will also include that inside are these items. Obviously if I choose to reaveal that is is a "small" container, it will give away the hide and my efforts will be pointless. I would like to choose "other".Do the guidelines insist that I disclose the actual size of the cache?

[+narcissa]

Just to clarify: you want people to think they are looking for something large, but they are actually looking for something small?

[+Chofman1]

Yes

[+Wet Pancake Touring Club]

Looking in past Geocaching Blog entries, there is an article on cache sizes. Here's the link.

 

Acording to the article:

 

Other – Unusual geocache containers that just don’t fit into other categories, e.g. a magnetic strip.

 

Unknown – For when a little extra surprise is needed, e.g. when knowing the size of the container would completely give away the find.

 

You may want to mark yours as Unknown. To me, a re-purposed can has a specific volume, and doesn't fit the Other category as well.

[+narcissa]

The joke will probably be spoiled repeatedly by finders annoyed at the deception, so good luck with log maintenance on that.

[+Chofman1]

It looks as though mine falls into the unknown category

[+Chofman1]

I love log maintenance

[+narcissa]

Yeah, I don't know that I would love asking every other finder to edit their logs.

[+Chofman1]

I didn't ask for criticism of the quality of my cache, only if the guidelines permitted what I am proposing

[+justintim1999]

I love log maintenance

 

My kind of cacher ^^^^.

 

Don't hesitate posting any other questions regardless of how many times it's been asked. Good luck with the hide.

 

Oh, I'd go with unknown as well.

[+narcissa]

I didn't ask for criticism of the quality of my cache, only if the guidelines permitted what I am proposing

 

I am sure the quality of the container will be okay, but I have seen other hiders try to do these sneaky jokes, and it generally doesn't go well.

 

"Unknown" is probably the best course of action if you must do this sort of thing. If it's a traditional, it may not matter how you list it because people don't look at the cache page anyway.

[+kunarion]

Forgive me if this has already been discussed on this forum. I've noticed the few who are quick to point out that a subject is being revisited, which makes a me a little hesitant to start a thread. Believe me, I used the search option to do a little research but I couldn't find the specifics to answer this question.

 

I am proposing hiding a pellet container about the size of a can of smokeless tobacco. Inside will be doll house items, baseball, teddy bear, camera. In the description I will refer to this as an ammo can, which it is. I will also include that inside are these items. Obviously if I choose to reaveal that is is a "small" container, it will give away the hide and my efforts will be pointless. I would like to choose "other".Do the guidelines insist that I disclose the actual size of the cache?

I've found this one which is described as an "ammo can", and listed as a Micro. The cache has 10 favorites. It's a good example of one way to set up such a page. The box is one of the teeny scaled-down "ammo can" novelty items. When I logged it, I mentioned all the swag I added (boots, etc.), but didn't let on that they were all beads shaped like larger items.

 

There's another local "ammo can" that I never found (I think it's archived), which I'm pretty sure was one of those novelty "ammo cans", and listed as "Other" size. But I went there expecting an actual ammo can, and when I saw the small bushes, and some stump holes so close to a grocery store parking lot, I couldn't tell if it was in fact a Micro or something, or if it was an ammo can and had been stolen. Later, I looked through the logs for clues that it was a Micro. The misleading info was confusing and required extra trips in this case, but I doubt I'd be all that upset about it, if I eventually found it. It was placed by the same teenager who places other goofy kinds of caches, so I merely needed to be on his wavelength. Well, I kind of avoid his other caches, unless someone recommends one.

Edited November 4, 2016 by kunarion

[+cerberus1]

The last one thinking it was a good joke here, claiming a pellet tin is an "ammo can" had most of the logs saying "It's just a micro...".

Some stopping with trackables were the ones most bothered it seemed.

- Though most haven't seen one large enough to house cameras or baseballs (I haven't either).

 

One who placed a micro ammo can, simply mentioning in the cache page "you're looking for an ammo can", did get a lot of logs with, "Okay, you got me. ".

[+narcissa]

The last one thinking it was a good joke here, claiming a pellet tin is an "ammo can" had most of the logs saying "It's just a micro...".

Some stopping with trackables were the ones most bothered it seemed.

- Though most haven't seen one large enough to house cameras or baseballs (I haven't either).

 

One who placed a micro ammo can, simply mentioning in the cache page "you're looking for an ammo can", did get a lot of logs with, "Okay, you got me. ".

 

Yeah, this is what I would expect would happen. And of course the photos in the gallery would spoil it too.

 

Might work better if there's a puzzle or multi element to it that makes people pay a bit more attention from the outset. I think those finders are a little more willing to keep the secret too. With traditionals people just want to find what they're expecting.

[+cerberus1]

Seems most with similar ideas here make theirs "Unknown".

- Some odd reason, they're still only calling nanos "Other".

[+narcissa]

Seems most with similar ideas here make theirs "Unknown".

- Some odd reason, they're still only calling nanos "Other".

 

Two different logics.

 

"Unknown" means "I don't want people to know what size they're looking for." That's fine.

 

"Other" in the context of a nano means "I can't grasp the idea that 75mL is less than 100mL, but 1mL is also less than 100mL." SMH.

[+J Grouchy]

I am proposing hiding a pellet container about the size of a can of smokeless tobacco. Inside will be doll house items, baseball, teddy bear, camera. In the description I will refer to this as an ammo can, which it is. I will also include that inside are these items. Obviously if I choose to reaveal that is is a "small" container, it will give away the hide and my efforts will be pointless. I would like to choose "other".Do the guidelines insist that I disclose the actual size of the cache?

 

First: something the size of a tobacco tin would probably be considered "micro" if we're going by volume.

Second: nothing wrong with what you propose, despite the grumps in here who poo-poo the idea. I've seen it done before with one of those tiny "ammo can" containers about the size of a car remote key fob. The vast majority of folks will play along if you let on in the description that there is some sort of trickery involved. Just don't get worked up if some folks don't play along. Ask them not to spoil it in the description and you'll help avoid some of that.

[+L0ne.R]

I've found this one which is described as an "ammo can", and listed as a Micro.

 

Oh thank gosh it's honest. I've found those mini ammo cans listed as Regular. It was annoying, even though the container was cute.

 

Micro or Other is correct.

 

Most of us assume Other means it's likely a micro in something larger disguising the micro. If it's a larger creative container and can hold swag, but the owner wants to list it as Other instead of Small/Regular/Large, then that's good too. It will indeed by a surprise.

Edited November 4, 2016 by L0ne.R

[+L0ne.R]

Seems most with similar ideas here make theirs "Unknown".

- Some odd reason, they're still only calling nanos "Other".

 

Two different logics.

 

"Unknown" means "I don't want people to know what size they're looking for." That's fine.

 

"Other" in the context of a nano means "I can't grasp the idea that 75mL is less than 100mL, but 1mL is also less than 100mL." SMH.

 

That use to be the case:

 

 

But Groundspeak removed Not Chosen. Only option now is Other.

 

[+L0ne.R]

I am proposing hiding a pellet container about the size of a can of smokeless tobacco. Inside will be doll house items, baseball, teddy bear, camera.

 

Just curious. What's a pellet container? Is it this:

 

[+Chofman1]

Yes that's it

[+narcissa]

Seems most with similar ideas here make theirs "Unknown".

- Some odd reason, they're still only calling nanos "Other".

 

Two different logics.

 

"Unknown" means "I don't want people to know what size they're looking for." That's fine.

 

"Other" in the context of a nano means "I can't grasp the idea that 75mL is less than 100mL, but 1mL is also less than 100mL." SMH.

 

That use to be the case:

 

 

But Groundspeak removed Not Chosen. Only option now is Other.

 

 

Oh, I had forgotten about that.

 

So this would be an appropriate application of "Other" wheras nano is an inappropriate application of "Other."

[+Chofman1]

My reviewer says if I choose "other", I'll have to clearly state in the description that it is not a traditional container. They said it is reserved for bird houses and such. If I did this it would give my hide away as well.

[+redsox_mark]

That's a shame. The one I've found like that had the size as "not chosen". I don't know why that option has been removed.

[+narcissa]

My reviewer says if I choose "other", I'll have to clearly state in the description that it is not a traditional container. They said it is reserved for bird houses and such. If I did this it would give my hide away as well.

 

I guess the only thing you can do is correctly list it as a small, and mention that it's an "ammo can" in the text. The only people who will get the joke are the ones who read the cache page, which is a vanishingly small proportion of seekers.

[+redsox_mark]

Oh, and the one I found which is very much like your idea has been there 5 years, has lots of favorite points, and no logs which give it away. So don't be put off the idea. It does have 217 DNFs compared to 320 finds, but most who DNF'd it came back and found it on a later attempt.

[+J Grouchy]

My reviewer says if I choose "other", I'll have to clearly state in the description that it is not a traditional container. They said it is reserved for bird houses and such. If I did this it would give my hide away as well.

 

I guess the only thing you can do is correctly list it as a small, and mention that it's an "ammo can" in the text. The only people who will get the joke are the ones who read the cache page, which is a vanishingly small proportion of seekers.

 

Or list it as small, get it published, then change it to other.

As someone quoted from Groundspeak's own blog, some amount of deception is allowable as part of the fun. I would happily refer my reviewer to that.

[+Chofman1]

Oh, and the one I found which is very much like your idea has been there 5 years, has lots of favorite points, and no logs which give it away. So don't be put off the idea. It does have 217 DNFs compared to 320 finds, but most who DNF'd it came back and found it on a later attempt.

 

If that one is in Portland, Maine, then you are describing the one that i got the inspiration from. I hated it but loved it. Never did find it. Only found out the details by messaging the CO after I got back home. Ill probably never be back to find it.

[+hzoi]

"Other" tends to be a euphemism for nano.

 

I initially DNF'd this cache; it was advertised as an ammo can, but it was one of the tiny sheet metal ones, micro size. It listed the size as "not chosen." I groaned when I found it (with help), but had to hand it to the hider.

 

I'd do the same for this one and pick "not chosen" over "other."

 

edit to add link, as it's now archived, hence no spoiler

Edited November 4, 2016 by hzoi

[+The A-Team]

As someone quoted from Groundspeak's own blog, some amount of deception is allowable as part of the fun. I would happily refer my reviewer to that.

Keep in mind that the blog post is from 2013, when "Not chosen" (incorrectly stated in the post as "Unknown") was still available as an option. "Not chosen" ceased to be an option as of May 13, 2014 (when the new cache submission form went live), seemingly implying that deception is no longer an option for new caches. The response from the OP's reviewer seems to confirm this implication.

 

I wouldn't put too much stock in that blog post anyway. In addition to calling "Not chosen" by the wrong name, it also confuses matters by referring to the non-existent size "Nano" (although if you read it carefully, it does say to list those as "Micro"). It would be much better to refer to the current Help Center article on container sizes.

 

*Edit to clarify a point

Edited November 4, 2016 by The A-Team

[+Gill & Tony]

I was searching for an ammo can, size other, several months ago. When we eventually found it, it was a traditional ammo can with hinged lid etc., but the size of a matchbox. It even had a cut down pencil so it didn't need to say BYOP, which might have been a give-away in the description.

 

We enjoyed it and, IIRC, gave it an FP.

 

Other sounds right for yours - go for it and good luck.

[+J Grouchy]

I wondered about ammo can sizes...and I did happen to run across an ammo can that fits in one hand and would therefore count as "small"...

 

 

[+redsox_mark]

Oh, and the one I found which is very much like your idea has been there 5 years, has lots of favorite points, and no logs which give it away. So don't be put off the idea. It does have 217 DNFs compared to 320 finds, but most who DNF'd it came back and found it on a later attempt.

 

If that one is in Portland, Maine, then you are describing the one that i got the inspiration from. I hated it but loved it. Never did find it. Only found out the details by messaging the CO after I got back home. Ill probably never be back to find it.

 

Yup, that's the one!

[+bflentje]

Oh, and the one I found which is very much like your idea has been there 5 years, has lots of favorite points, and no logs which give it away. So don't be put off the idea. It does have 217 DNFs compared to 320 finds, but most who DNF'd it came back and found it on a later attempt.

 

If that one is in Portland, Maine, then you are describing the one that i got the inspiration from. I hated it but loved it. Never did find it. Only found out the details by messaging the CO after I got back home. Ill probably never be back to find it.

 

Yup, that's the one!

 

You talking Portland Head Lighthouse, Maine's oldest? I found that %$#$%$^. I despise liar's caches.

[+Team Hugs]

Deception can run the other way, too ... with delightful results. There's a cache in my area called "Micro in the Woods". Cache type is listed as "Other". You get there ... and discover that the cache is an abandoned microwave oven.

[+Chofman1]

Deception can run the other way, too ... with delightful results. There's a cache in my area called "Micro in the Woods". Cache type is listed as "Other". You get there ... and discover that the cache is an abandoned microwave oven.

There are all different types of cachers out there. Some love LPC's. some don't. I prefer the deceptive ones.

[+dprovan]

I always thought "unknown" was perfect for this kind of thing: "the size is unknown to you because I'm not going to tell you what it is". But apparently unknown was causing other problems, so they took away the ability to set it. So you're stuck with "other", although it sounds like your reviewer has some requirements for using unknown that I've never heard of before.

 

Another possibility is just to go ahead and list it as a micro. Most people won't notice, anyway, so they'll fall for the description, but the people that do notice will recognize you listing the size honestly as a wink.

[+redsox_mark]

Oh, and the one I found which is very much like your idea has been there 5 years, has lots of favorite points, and no logs which give it away. So don't be put off the idea. It does have 217 DNFs compared to 320 finds, but most who DNF'd it came back and found it on a later attempt.

 

If that one is in Portland, Maine, then you are describing the one that i got the inspiration from. I hated it but loved it. Never did find it. Only found out the details by messaging the CO after I got back home. Ill probably never be back to find it.

 

Yup, that's the one!

 

You talking Portland Head Lighthouse, Maine's oldest? I found that %$#$%$^. I despise liar's caches.

 

It's not that one, but it is very close by.

[+Mudfrog]

The joke will probably be spoiled repeatedly by finders annoyed at the deception, so good luck with log maintenance on that.

 

The Op would be fine, and in fact, get some favorite points if he was using one of those itty bitty micro ammocans. But labeling a pellet container an ammocan would be kind of a stretch. Yes, it holds pellets, which are ammo, but i figure most cachers wouldn't know what the container was. I'm betting more would be annoyed than happy finding this.

[+narcissa]

The joke will probably be spoiled repeatedly by finders annoyed at the deception, so good luck with log maintenance on that.

 

The Op would be fine, and in fact, get some favorite points if he was using one of those itty bitty micro ammocans. But labeling a pellet container an ammocan would be kind of a stretch. Yes, it holds pellets, which are ammo, but i figure most cachers wouldn't know what the container was. I'm betting more would be annoyed than happy finding this.

 

I think it's one of those love-it-or-hate-it things. The people who love it will give it an FP, the people who hate it will write really humourless logs that spoil it.

[+Chofman1]

The joke will probably be spoiled repeatedly by finders annoyed at the deception, so good luck with log maintenance on that.

 

The Op would be fine, and in fact, get some favorite points if he was using one of those itty bitty micro ammocans. But labeling a pellet container an ammocan would be kind of a stretch. Yes, it holds pellets, which are ammo, but i figure most cachers wouldn't know what the container was. I'm betting more would be annoyed than happy finding this.

 

I left all original labels on the can that clearly indicate it is a pellet can. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt and not assume the vast majority of folks are idiots.

[+hzoi]

"Not chosen" ceased to be an option as of May 13, 2014 (when the new cache submission form went live), seemingly implying that deception is no longer an option for new caches. The response from the OP's reviewer seems to confirm this implication.

Didn't realize that. I last placed a "not chosen" sized cache in 2013. The last few I put out were smalls and a regular, so I didn't even notice it was no longer an option.

[+fbingha]

I see your question is about guidelines regarding the 'other' size so I can give my history of a similar hide. I won't waste your time by instead telling you why you should't use the 'other' size or question why you would be asking this question.

 

I hid one of those tiny ammo cans in a tree and called it "Ammo Cans don't belong in trees". I actually listed mine as a 'micro' as I expected some, maybe most, cachers wouldn't look at the size once that saw 'Ammo Can'. No one gave me grief about it, several finders seemed to enjoy it.

 

I think your cache might be more successful at your attempt at subterfuge if you did get one of the cans posted earlier that comes with chocolate in it. You could put 'ammo can' in the title and people would find exactly what they expect, only much smaller than what they were looking for.

 

If you structured the hide in a certain way so that the small ammo can was inside something else, this is where the prescribed usage of the 'Other' attribute comes into play. Where the actual cache is in something else that is concealing it.

[+Minyakano]

I've found a series that are generally at restaurants called hungry nano, with the size listing as micro. However, it does state in the description that they are nano like containers, but can be any size. The one I've found looked exactly like a nano, but the size is more in the small category. Should go back and finish them...

[+coman123]

Make it a multi, stage 1 is a large,the final is your pellet container, in the description state the final is an ammo can

List it as a large

TaaDaa Done.