Correct coords for all cache types - why?

[+Team Microdot]

In the release notes from October 21 we were told that we can now correct the coordinates of all cache types on the cache page.

 

There's no inherent negatives that I can think of in having this facility, but nor can I think of any inherent positives, for those cache types which are at the published coordinates - although I'm sure there must be loads of positives and that it's just me lacking imagination.

 

The only use I can think of is amending coordinates which are grossly out and where the CO isn't maintaining the cache and so doesn't update the coordinates - or perhaps doesn't know how to update the coordinates - or even that they can.

 

Anybody here come up with other uses / positives I can't think of?

[+PnavE_81]

before the change it was only possible for mystery and multi caches. Since the change you can also coordinates for Wherigo's, letterbox hybrids and virtuals. All of which are usually not at the posted coordinates. I agree that I don't see the benefit of also allowing it for traditionals and earthcaches, but probably someone will find a use for it and now they can. YAY!

[+lee737]

 

The only use I can think of is amending coordinates which are grossly out and where the CO isn't maintaining the cache and so doesn't update the coordinates - or perhaps doesn't know how to update the coordinates - or even that they can.

 

 

Exactly - after you load a PQ onto a GPS, you may not have the useful log that includes the better coords, if you correct them at home first, you should be set.....

[ohgood]

In the release notes from October 21 we were told that we can now correct the coordinates of all cache types on the cache page.

 

There's no inherent negatives that I can think of in having this facility, but nor can I think of any inherent positives, for those cache types which are at the published coordinates - although I'm sure there must be loads of positives and that it's just me lacking imagination.

 

The only use I can think of is amending coordinates which are grossly out and where the CO isn't maintaining the cache and so doesn't update the coordinates - or perhaps doesn't know how to update the coordinates - or even that they can.

 

Anybody here come up with other uses / positives I can't think of?

 

pretty much, yes. usually it's both if it's either.

[+TerraViators]

coordinates for Wherigo's, letterbox hybrids and virtuals. All of which are usually not at the posted coordinates.

 

I can only recall a few instances where a virtual or letterbox-hybrid was not at posted coordinates. However, I like this feature.

[+Viajero Perdido]

People asked for it. If you look around, you can find threads on the subject.

 

I like when a company responds to the customers.

[+Team Microdot]

People asked for it. If you look around, you can find threads on the subject.

 

I like when a company responds to the customers.

 

Cool story

[+niraD]

I've seen a few very old caches that are listed as traditional, but they're really on-site puzzles or multi-caches of some sort. They're essentially grandfathered, since they were listed at a time when the distinctions between cache types were less clear.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

In the release notes from October 21 we were told that we can now correct the coordinates of all cache types on the cache page.

 

There's no inherent negatives that I can think of in having this facility, but nor can I think of any inherent positives, for those cache types which are at the published coordinates - although I'm sure there must be loads of positives and that it's just me lacking imagination.

 

The only use I can think of is amending coordinates which are grossly out and where the CO isn't maintaining the cache and so doesn't update the coordinates - or perhaps doesn't know how to update the coordinates - or even that they can.

 

Anybody here come up with other uses / positives I can't think of?

 

One of the advantages for allowing corrected coordinates for all cache types is that they don't have to include any code which tests for the right cache type before rendering the corrected coordinates link.

 

 

[Pup Patrol]

People asked for it. If you look around, you can find threads on the subject.

 

I like when a company responds to the customers.

 

One of the few things that people have asked for over and over again, yet there's still some reason to start a thread about it.

 

Yay, Groundspeak, and thanks for implementing this request.

 

B.

[+dprovan]

The only use I can think of is amending coordinates which are grossly out and where the CO isn't maintaining the cache and so doesn't update the coordinates - or perhaps doesn't know how to update the coordinates - or even that they can.

Yeah, adjusting traditionals with bad coordinates is the big use case. The coordinates don't have to be grossly out and the CO can simply be wrong without being absent and not maintaining the cache, although of course both of those are good examples.

 

Although to me, the big thing is simply consistency. It doesn't really matter to me why someone might want to adjust the coordinates on a traditional, I just know that they couldn't even though they could for other cache types. I didn't understand why GS invited such confusion in the initial implementation, particularly since it seems as if they had to go out of their way to do it.

[+Team Microdot]

People asked for it. If you look around, you can find threads on the subject.

 

I like when a company responds to the customers.

 

One of the few things that people have asked for over and over again, yet there's still some reason to start a thread about it.

 

Well pardon me all over the place for daring to start a thread.

 

It's hardly jostling for space among the thousands of other threads, is it?

 

Although I struggle to understand why it's so quiet here these days with such an open minded and welcoming membership

[+wmpastor]

People asked for it. If you look around, you can find threads on the subject.

 

I like when a company responds to the customers.

 

One of the few things that people have asked for over and over again, yet there's still some reason to start a thread about it.

 

Well pardon me all over the place for daring to start a thread.

 

It's hardly jostling for space among the thousands of other threads, is it?

 

Although I struggle to understand why it's so quiet here these days with such an open minded and welcoming membership

 

Totally fair discussion question - OP is clearly not complaining.

 

Could be useful with a multi or even a traditional where the coords are known to be off. We had one near here where the posted coords were off by about 100 feet for over two years. People relied on the coords posted in the notes by several cachers.

[+Team DEMP]

Big help instead of remembering adjusted coords for a cache might be buried in logs or copy/pasted into Personal Cache Notes.

 

I was going to reference another traveling traditional cache which just got archived. In the case of that cache you could update the coords to where you found it so that your stats were correct vs some other location when you re-display your stats.

Edited November 1, 2016 by Team DEMP

[+dprovan]

One of the few things that people have asked for over and over again, yet there's still some reason to start a thread about it.

Well pardon me all over the place for daring to start a thread.

Interesting. I read Pup Patrol's post as being supportive of you, saying essentially, "Sure, it's been discussed before, but we can still discuss what it's good for here, now that it's been implemented." You, apparently, read it as being sarcastic.

 

Anyway, a few people answered you, so you should be satisfied. I don't know why you'd care if someone else said you shouldn't have asked, since such an observation -- if that's what anyone meant -- would already be irrelevant.

[+Mn-treker]

I like this new feature. I have used it also. A traditional cache placed by newbie was way off. Another experienced cacher placed note of correct coords in thier log.

Rather than wait for newbie to fix it, I fixed it at my end then sent it to my GPS.

Very nice feature.

[+searchjaunt]

People asked for it. If you look around, you can find threads on the subject.

 

I like when a company responds to the customers.

 

This is technical wise a no brainer, so no need to applaud for it. There are plenty of others things many people - see the many threads - are asking (for years) to get fixed or implemented remaining unanswered.

[+J Grouchy]

One of the few things that people have asked for over and over again, yet there's still some reason to start a thread about it.

Well pardon me all over the place for daring to start a thread.

Interesting. I read Pup Patrol's post as being supportive of you, saying essentially, "Sure, it's been discussed before, but we can still discuss what it's good for here, now that it's been implemented." You, apparently, read it as being sarcastic.

 

 

Wow...I think it was pretty clearly sarcastic. Not sure how you interpret that as "supportive" at all.

The most amazing thing to me was Pup Patrol didn't post a link to the guidelines.

[+AustinMN]

So what is there to stop someone from doing mass sabotage of coordinates?

[+Team Microdot]

So what is there to stop someone from doing mass sabotage of coordinates?

 

The fact you can only edit your own copy of the coordinates?

[+Team Microdot]

One of the few things that people have asked for over and over again, yet there's still some reason to start a thread about it.

Well pardon me all over the place for daring to start a thread.

Interesting. I read Pup Patrol's post as being supportive of you, saying essentially, "Sure, it's been discussed before, but we can still discuss what it's good for here, now that it's been implemented." You, apparently, read it as being sarcastic.

 

 

Wow...I think it was pretty clearly sarcastic.

 

Nothing compared to the pontification that followed though

[+J Grouchy]

So what is there to stop someone from doing mass sabotage of coordinates?

 

The fact you can only edit your own copy of the coordinates?

 

Yeah...that's how it's always been with mystery and multi caches. Not sure why that was even a question.

 

[+AustinMN]

So what is there to stop someone from doing mass sabotage of coordinates?

 

The fact you can only edit your own copy of the coordinates?

 

Yeah...that's how it's always been with mystery and multi caches. Not sure why that was even a question.

 

 

So it isn't a correction at all.

[+J Grouchy]

So what is there to stop someone from doing mass sabotage of coordinates?

 

The fact you can only edit your own copy of the coordinates?

 

Yeah...that's how it's always been with mystery and multi caches. Not sure why that was even a question.

 

 

So it isn't a correction at all.

 

Um, is there something you are confused about? Yes, it's a correction to the cache page as seen by the user. Whether it is "correct" is a separate matter entirely.

[+hzoi]

I was going to reference another traveling traditional cache which just got archived. In the case of that cache you could update the coords to where you found it so that your stats were correct vs some other location when you re-display your stats.

Do corrected coordinates affect your statistics? I'm not so sure.

 

I'd think they wouldn't affect anything on third party sites that don't rely on a My Finds PQ, like project-gc.

 

I also checked the stats page that is automatically generated here on geocaching. I corrected the coordinates of my nearest, northernmost, and southernmost finds to extend or narrow their ranges a little more. It did not change my stats.

 

I've never checked to see whether corrected coordinates are preserved in a My Finds PQ, so it's possible they might affect a FindStatGen run in GSAK.

Edited November 2, 2016 by hzoi

[+hzoi]

So it isn't a correction at all.

Not quite. It corrects the coordinates you see on the site. It also corrects the coordinates in a .loc or .gpx file you download for that specific cache, or inside a pocket query file if you include that cache in a PQ.

[+bflentje]

Although I struggle to understand why it's so quiet here these days with such an open minded and welcoming membership

 

For me it's very easy to understand. The population is sick and tired of the same to-be-left-unnamed posters dominating and devolving every, single, thread, no matter how benign or useful the original post is. I find myself coming to the forums less and less frequently.

[+TheVoytekBear]

FINALY! Thanks fot creating this thread as I was unaware of the change. I have a bunch of letterboxes on my solved list which I'll correct instead keeping their final coordinates in the note.

[+L0ne.R]

Although I struggle to understand why it's so quiet here these days with such an open minded and welcoming membership

 

For me it's very easy to understand. The population is sick and tired of the same to-be-left-unnamed posters dominating and devolving every, single, thread, no matter how benign or useful the original post is. I find myself coming to the forums less and less frequently.

 

I wonder if it's a dip in the interest in the game.

Fewer people are passionate about the game, enough that they want to talk about it.

Some of those that were passionate and informative have been banned.

I haven't seen much talk in any other geocaching forum and facebook sites either.

Edited November 2, 2016 by L0ne.R

[+hzoi]

Although I struggle to understand why it's so quiet here these days with such an open minded and welcoming membership

 

For me it's very easy to understand. The population is sick and tired of the same to-be-left-unnamed posters dominating and devolving every, single, thread, no matter how benign or useful the original post is. I find myself coming to the forums less and less frequently.

 

I wonder if it's a dip in the interest in the game.

Fewer people are passionate about the game, enough that they want to talk about it.

Some of those that were passionate and informative have been banned.

I haven't seen much talk in any other geocaching forum and facebook sites either.

 

I think there is a combination of the two bolded statements that is killing discussion around here.

 

That, and the fact that those discussed in the former either have no ability to grasp that they are killing discourse, or do see and yet feel the narcissastic need to be "right" anyway.

 

I'm not sure it's an overall dip in interest, but I suspect the fact that one can play this game entirely from a smartphone may have obviated the need for many players to visit the website itself; thus, why visit the forums?

Edited November 2, 2016 by hzoi

[+J Grouchy]

Although I struggle to understand why it's so quiet here these days with such an open minded and welcoming membership

 

For me it's very easy to understand. The population is sick and tired of the same to-be-left-unnamed posters dominating and devolving every, single, thread, no matter how benign or useful the original post is. I find myself coming to the forums less and less frequently.

 

I wonder if it's a dip in the interest in the game.

Fewer people are passionate about the game, enough that they want to talk about it.

Some of those that were passionate and informative have been banned.

I haven't seen much talk in any other geocaching forum and facebook sites either.

 

I think there is a combination of the two bolded statements that is killing discussion around here.

 

That, and the fact that those discussed in the former either have no ability to grasp that they are killing discourse, or do see and yet feel the narcissastic need to be "right" anyway.

 

I'm not sure it's an overall dip in interest, but I suspect the fact that one can play this game entirely from a smartphone may have obviated the need for many players to visit the website itself; thus, why visit the forums?

 

[+dprovan]

Wow...I think it was pretty clearly sarcastic. Not sure how you interpret that as "supportive" at all.

Yeah, wow, indeed. It was really simple: I just read the comment at face value. I tend to do that since that way when they really are being supportive, I avoid picking a fight with someone that's agreeing with me, and when they really are trying to be mean, it doesn't hurt me because I don't notice.

[+Team Microdot]

Wow...I think it was pretty clearly sarcastic. Not sure how you interpret that as "supportive" at all.

Yeah, wow, indeed. It was really simple: I just read the comment at face value. I tend to do that since that way when they really are being supportive, I avoid picking a fight with someone that's agreeing with me, and when they really are trying to be mean, it doesn't hurt me because I don't notice.

 

Reality isn't for everyone.

[+fizzymagic]

Well pardon me all over the place for daring to start a thread.

 

It's hardly jostling for space among the thousands of other threads, is it?

 

Although I struggle to understand why it's so quiet here these days with such an open minded and welcoming membership

 

I, for one, support you for opening this thread. I note that coordinate correction has recently been added for Wherigo caches, which is very nice.

 

As for why it is quiet -- I don't know. Others suggest that people are losing passion, and perhaps that is the case. However, I tend to see it as a reflection of other things in the world happening that are far more outrageous than incorrectly logging or maintaining caches. Maybe people are regaining some sense of proportion!

[+J Grouchy]

Wow...I think it was pretty clearly sarcastic. Not sure how you interpret that as "supportive" at all.

Yeah, wow, indeed. It was really simple: I just read the comment at face value. I tend to do that since that way when they really are being supportive, I avoid picking a fight with someone that's agreeing with me, and when they really are trying to be mean, it doesn't hurt me because I don't notice.

 

Amazing how much you miss when you don't actually have to think about how a statement is presented.

If it wasn't sarcastic, it was nonetheless astoundingly...completely and utterly...unnecessary.

 

One of the few things that people have asked for over and over again, yet there's still some reason to start a thread about it.

 

Translation: "People always seem to be asking for this in countless threads, yet you continue to post an unnecessary thread anyway."

Edited November 2, 2016 by J Grouchy

[+noncentric]

I like when a company responds to the customers.

+1

Seeing this change gives some hope that other requests they'd like to see might actually happen as well.

 

People asked for it. If you look around, you can find threads on the subject.

Yep - and here is one such list that frinklabs created back in May:

• SUBMITTED (32023) - [FEATURE] Allow user-corrected co-ordinates on ALL caches
  
• Letterbox Hybrids: corrected coordinate?
  
• Extend Corrected Coordinates Use
  
• Allow Changing of Coordinates of caches other than puzzle
  
• Wherigo - Correct coordinates
  
• Enable Corrected Coords on ALL Cache Types
  
• Correct coordinates by the letterbox geocaches
  
• Correct Coordinates Not Available?
  
• User corrected coordinates - feature request
  
• "Correct these coordinates" for all cache types
  
• Cannot edit coordinates
  
• [FEATURE] Corrected Coordinates also for Letterboxes and Wherigos
  
• Corrected Coordinates
  

[+AustinMN]

So it isn't a correction at all.

Not quite. It corrects the coordinates you see on the site. It also corrects the coordinates in a .loc or .gpx file you download for that specific cache, or inside a pocket query file if you include that cache in a PQ.

 

No, that is absolutely and utterly not a correction. That is a personal set of coordinates. No different from a personal cache note except with numbers that overwrite the coordinates.

[+J Grouchy]

Holy cow, dude. Are you for real? This is a feature that's been in place forever on other types of caches. You seriously need to drop this.

[+Team DEMP]

No, that is absolutely and utterly not a correction. That is a personal set of coordinates. No different from a personal cache note except with numbers that overwrite the coordinates.

 

They are 'corrected coordinates' per the site... http://support.Groundspeak.com/index.php?pg=kb.page&id=462

[+Viajero Perdido]

This points out a perfectly valid interpretation of the simple term, corrected coordinates, which isn't the one the designers had in mind.

 

User interface design is hard.

 

And that's just in the first language.

[+colleda]

Well pardon me all over the place for daring to start a thread.

 

It's hardly jostling for space among the thousands of other threads, is it?

 

Although I struggle to understand why it's so quiet here these days with such an open minded and welcoming membership

 

I, for one, support you for opening this thread. I note that coordinate correction has recently been added for Wherigo caches, which is very nice.

 

As for why it is quiet -- I don't know. Others suggest that people are losing passion, and perhaps that is the case. However, I tend to see it as a reflection of other things in the world happening that are far more outrageous than incorrectly logging or maintaining caches. Maybe people are regaining some sense of proportion!

Ditto. Thanks for starting the thread as I didn't know about this change either.

[+dprovan]

This points out a perfectly valid interpretation of the simple term, corrected coordinates, which isn't the one the designers had in mind.

I disagree that the interpretation is valid. The term "corrected" in no way implies the effect is universal.

[+dprovan]

Amazing how much you miss when you don't actually have to think about how a statement is presented.

Well, in this case I think all I'm missing an imaginary slight.

[+Team Microdot]

I like when a company responds to the customers.

+1

Seeing this change gives some hope that other requests they'd like to see might actually happen as well.

 

People asked for it. If you look around, you can find threads on the subject.

Yep - and here is one such list that frinklabs created back in May:

• SUBMITTED (32023) - [FEATURE] Allow user-corrected co-ordinates on ALL caches
  
• Letterbox Hybrids: corrected coordinate?
  
• Extend Corrected Coordinates Use
  
• Allow Changing of Coordinates of caches other than puzzle
  
• Wherigo - Correct coordinates
  
• Enable Corrected Coords on ALL Cache Types
  
• Correct coordinates by the letterbox geocaches
  
• Correct Coordinates Not Available?
  
• User corrected coordinates - feature request
  
• "Correct these coordinates" for all cache types
  
• Cannot edit coordinates
  
• [FEATURE] Corrected Coordinates also for Letterboxes and Wherigos
  
• Corrected Coordinates
  

 

Thanks for sharing the list - I'm hopeless at finding past threads

 

I'll have a peer at some of those later and see what reasons / uses people had for this feature

[+hzoi]

So it isn't a correction at all.

Not quite. It corrects the coordinates you see on the site. It also corrects the coordinates in a .loc or .gpx file you download for that specific cache, or inside a pocket query file if you include that cache in a PQ.

 

No, that is absolutely and utterly not a correction. That is a personal set of coordinates. No different from a personal cache note except with numbers that overwrite the coordinates.

For the love of...

 

You are absolutely and utterly being pedantic about this. Whatever, have fun. Perhaps someone else will take the bait and beat the dead horse with you. Apparently the candidates are lining up here if you'd like to pick a few.

Edited November 3, 2016 by hzoi

[+justintim1999]

Wow! I'm beginning to understand.

 

Sad that I actually had to look up the word pedantic.

 

thanks Team Microdot for re-posting this. To be honest I didn't even know this existed and have never used it before. I did have to look up exactly how it works as this thread really didn't explain it all that well.

I did find the answers in another thread.

 

I guess I should keep up with all the new features on the site but sometimes things just slip through.

[Keystone]

Tip: to learn about new features and bug fixes for the web site and official apps, put a watch on the Release Notes forum section. After following that link to the forum list view, click on the "watch forum" button towards the right side of the screen. There are only one or two new Releases each month, so watching just that forum section won't fill up your inbox with notifications.

[+justintim1999]

Tip: to learn about new features and bug fixes for the web site and official apps, put a watch on the Release Notes forum section. After following that link to the forum list view, click on the "watch forum" button towards the right side of the screen. There are only one or two new Releases each month, so watching just that forum section won't fill up your inbox with notifications.

 

Done. Thanks

[+fuzziebear3]

So it isn't a correction at all.

Not quite. It corrects the coordinates you see on the site. It also corrects the coordinates in a .loc or .gpx file you download for that specific cache, or inside a pocket query file if you include that cache in a PQ.

 

No, that is absolutely and utterly not a correction. That is a personal set of coordinates. No different from a personal cache note except with numbers that overwrite the coordinates.

 

If they were to globally and pubicly change the coordinates, there would be no point in puzzles. After the first person solves it, then everyone else would get the solved coordinates.

Instead, this is for your personal correction to the coordinates. They are for you alone.

 

There is another feature in the website where when you log a cache, you can add corrected coordinates, and those are publicly shown in the log. Doing that for finals of puzzles and multis (etc) would be considered bad form.

[+The A-Team]

So it isn't a correction at all.

Not quite. It corrects the coordinates you see on the site. It also corrects the coordinates in a .loc or .gpx file you download for that specific cache, or inside a pocket query file if you include that cache in a PQ.

No, that is absolutely and utterly not a correction. That is a personal set of coordinates. No different from a personal cache note except with numbers that overwrite the coordinates.

 

If they were to globally and pubicly change the coordinates, there would be no point in puzzles. After the first person solves it, then everyone else would get the solved coordinates.

Instead, this is for your personal correction to the coordinates. They are for you alone.

I think it's time for a history lesson and a clarification of some terminology.

 

The term "corrected coordinates" originates from GSAK, the offline geocaching database software. Waaaaay back in 2004, Clyde added the ability to add "corrected coordinates" in version 2.00. This function allows the user to change the coordinates of a cache without permanently editing the original posted coordinates. The alternative would be to directly modify the posted coordinates, but that change would get overwritten if you loaded in the cache again, whereas the "corrected coordinates" are a separate field stored in GSAK and wouldn't be overwritten. Most often, this function is used to set the coordinates of a solved puzzle so it will be shown in the right location on the map and in your GPSr, which was likely the reason for using the term "corrected" (ie. rather than showing it at the bogus coordinates, it will now show at the "correct" or "corrected" coordinates). If you want to get it back to the posted coordinates, you just have to remove the "corrected coordinates" you set and it will revert back to using the original posted coordinates. It's a handy way to modify the coordinates of caches for whatever purpose you desire.

 

Fast-forward to November 2011. Groundspeak decided to add similar functionality to cache listings on the website, and since many people (probably including a bunch of Lackeys) already knew such functionality as "corrected coordinates" due to their use of GSAK, they went with the same name. Those who don't know about its use in GSAK may not understand the reason for calling it that, so a better name might have been "personal coordinates" or something similar. Oh well. It's called "corrected coordinates" now, so we'll just have to live with it.

 

There is another feature in the website where when you log a cache, you can add corrected coordinates, and those are publicly shown in the log. Doing that for finals of puzzles and multis (etc) would be considered bad form.

Those aren't "corrected coordinates". Those are just coordinates attached to a log. Only the personal modification of the coordinates on a cache listing currently being discussed is called "corrected coordinates".