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Legal Concealed weapon carry in WA, without permit


martmann

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Fortunately here in Washington state, Per RCW 9.41.060 (8) you can carry concealed, while hiking (or doing any other lawful outdoor recreational activity, or going to, or coming from, that activity) without a permit. Few people know about this though, and I doubt many police know of it, so I'll carry a copy of the law, just so they know I'm not totally full of crap. Still, I'll only carry in extreme areas.

 

So my Question is: Have any of you carried concealed without a permit (under the circumstances stated above, making it legal) while geocaching in Washington state? The reason I ask is that some nice weekday I want to go up to Snoqualmie summit, and hike along the Iron Horse trail, and through the Tunnel. This area seems just extreme enough to justify carrying.

 

I have yet to geocache while carrying a concealed weapon. And don't plan on making a habit of it. But I am interested in any experience/anecdotes you may have.

 

Please though, if you are an anti-gun fanatic, I'll thank you to keep the anti-gun rhetoric to yourself, I'm looking for useful info, not ramblings from somebody who doesn't know a semi-automatic from an automatic.

 

TIA

 

_________________________________________________________

If trees could scream, would we still cut them down?

Well, maybe if they screamed all the time, for no reason.

Click here for my Geocaching pictures and Here (newest)

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Sorry just the thought of carrying a weapon while caching goes against my idea of the sport. If you are the scared of the area and have that little confidence in yourself that you need a weapon, maybe basket weaving is a better option...

 

My mind not only wanders...

Sometimes it leaves completely...

 

**Namaste**

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I have no issues with you wanting to carry at all, but I thought I'd respond to this portion of your post:

 

quote:
Originally posted by martmann:

 

The reason I ask is that some nice weekday I want to go up to Snoqualmie summit, and hike along the Iron Horse trail, and through the Tunnel. This area seems just extreme enough to justify carrying.


 

I think that you'll find that the trail is nowhere near as extreme as you might be thinking. In fact, it usually feels more like a city park than a trail through the wilderness. On a typical summer Saturday, you'll pass any number of families out riding their bikes or taking a stroll. The crowds of course thin out as you get further from the various trailheads, but around the tunnel it is usually pretty busy.

 

It's not always walkers and people on bikes you run into, either. On my first trip through the tunnel back in about 1990 (before it was officially open), we were making our way through when lights started coming through the other direction. The tunnel wasn't very popular back then, so we wondered who might be coming toward us. The lights were really bright, so we started joking that it was a ghost train. It turned out to be an AT&T truck headed out to check on the cable that runs under the trail now. Another time we were enjoying the view from the Hansen Trestle when a stagecoach pulled by a team of horses rumbled by. I guess that there is a company in the area that gives rides.

 

The point I'm making is, while you can get lucky at times and feel like you have the place to yourself, at other times it is a busy recreational area.

 

icon_geocachingwa.gif

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My friend John has a concealed weapons permit. He like to take the pistol with him when we go in the mountains. This would be nice if a mountain lion came into the scene!

 

However,I've hiked solo for years and years and have never seen a lion and only seen one bear although that was too close up on Bald Mountain. It heard me coming though and we looked at each other for a second and he took off into the bushes.

 

Actually I'm more worried about lions just out of Issaquah than in the mountains proper. The juvenile cats are pushed out by the older ones and have to seek less desirable habitat and might be pressed to attack pets or people for food.

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Wow what a great idea!

You never know when you might run into some wacko survivalist sqatting out in public forest land, and you wouldn't want them to see that you are packing. After all, they will have fully automatic weapons, so you will need to take them by surprise.

Of course, the other option is to have your AK-47 in hand as you trudge though looking for those hidden ammo cans.

icon_wink.gif

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quote:
Originally posted by bazzle:

Sorry just the thought of carrying a weapon while caching goes against my idea of the sport. If you are the scared of the area and have that little confidence in yourself that you need a weapon, maybe basket weaving is a better option...

 

My mind not only wanders...

Sometimes it leaves completely...

 

**Namaste**


 

Maybe you could re-read the last paragraph of my post moron.

 

_________________________________________________________

If trees could scream, would we still cut them down?

Well, maybe if they screamed all the time, for no reason.

Click here for my Geocaching pictures and Here (newest)

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quote:
Originally posted by Boojum:

Wow what a great idea!

You never know when you might run into some wacko survivalist sqatting out in public forest land, and you wouldn't want them to see that you are packing. After all, they will have fully automatic weapons, so you will need to take them by surprise.

Of course, the other option is to have your AK-47 in hand as you trudge though looking for those hidden ammo cans.

icon_wink.gif


 

Gee, thanks for the helpful info. Your opinion is so important to me.

 

_________________________________________________________

If trees could scream, would we still cut them down?

Well, maybe if they screamed all the time, for no reason.

Click here for my Geocaching pictures and Here (newest)

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Thank you Moun10Bike and evergreenhiker! That is precisely the kind of info I was looking for (mountain lions were my main concern), The only time I was at the tunnel, was 12:30 AM (I was unarmed then), hard to tell how desolate an area is at that time of day. Perhaps I'll reconsider carrying there, I prefer not to carry, as the added responsability of carrying, does siphon off some of the enjoyment.

 

Funny how you mention a gun and every ignorant moron thinks that gives them the right to be an a$$hole. Nice to know some people take the time to help.

 

_________________________________________________________

If trees could scream, would we still cut them down?

Well, maybe if they screamed all the time, for no reason.

Click here for my Geocaching pictures and Here (newest)

 

[This message was edited by martmann on June 13, 2003 at 02:39 PM.]

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No matter how nice you put something, anything that is controversial will bring comments opposed to the idea. If you are out hiking in remote areas, most likely shooting is permitted anyhow. If you are wanting to carry, why not get a permit anyhow without the worries of what the police say. I can understand the dangers of wildlife and if I was out somewhere known for it then carrying would not be a bad idea but you will need to warrant such a kill especially to any game warden. Clarifying what you mean by extreme may help me understand the need.

 

There was a young maid from Madras

Who had a magnificent a$$;

Not rounded and pink,

As you probably think---

It was grey, had long ears, and ate grass.

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quote:
Originally posted by MattandLaura:

No matter how nice you put something, anything that is controversial will bring comments opposed to the idea. If you are out hiking in remote areas, most likely shooting is permitted anyhow. If you are wanting to carry, why not get a permit anyhow without the worries of what the police say. I can understand the dangers of wildlife and if I was out somewhere known for it then carrying would not be a bad idea but you will need to warrant such a kill especially to any game warden. Clarifying what you mean by extreme may help me understand the need.


 

True but that doesn't account for the insulting tone of Bazzle's post, he merely felt like giving shlt to somebody he disagrees with, no constructive info. the last paragraph of my post was meant to relay the fact that I am not interested in debating how you feel about the gun issue. that was me being polite, Bazzle evidently doesn't speak 'polite' so I tried to speak his language (yes now I feel 'dirty').

 

I suggest if bazzle is scared of a car accident and has that little confidence in himself that he needs seat belts, he should walk instead. That advice is as worthless as bazzle's post.

 

A gun is a tool, a piece of equipment. I'm not looking to kill anything, what I was seeking is exactly the info that both Moun10Bike and evergreenhiker! provided. The area I was asking about is at the top of the Cascade mountains, the only time I was there (other than driving on I-90) was midnight, and I would like to go back, seems to me a gun wouldn't be a bad idea to take along in an area like that, if you have one. But really I'd rather not carry if the risk is as small as Moun10Bike and evergreenhiker! stated, and I probably won't carry when I go back, based on their posts. There are a couple of caches along the trail I'll be hiking on, that I'll snag, but I really want to check out the area. Moun10Bike and evergreenhiker!, are exactly the type of people I hoped would respond, it's obvious they have massive experience in hiking/biking in all areas, just by reading their posts and cache logs, Thanks guys.

 

I don't feel the need to carry enough of the time to get a permit, in fact I haven't carried, even once, in over 11 years. The laws were written to cover me in the only situation I would feel the need to carry. I've found Police to be reasonable people, especially when you make an effort to make their job easier when they are dealing with you. It IS leagal to carry a concealed weapon while hiking, without a permit, the state laws are VERY clear on that. Any problem I would have with police would be temporary, and easily resolved.

 

_________________________________________________________

If trees could scream, would we still cut them down?

Well, maybe if they screamed all the time, for no reason.

Click here for my Geocaching pictures and Here (newest)

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quote:
Originally posted by martmann:

Gee, thanks for the helpful info. Your opinion is so important to me.


 

Hi, welcome to the United States of America, where (for now) everyone is entitled to have their say, even if someone doesn't want to hear it.

 

The point of my previous post was, why the hell do you think you need to carry a CONCEALED weapon when you are out in the boonies. If you are worried about mountain lions, you would be better off with your weapon easily available rather than hidden away.

 

And hey, if you are still wanting to conceal your pistol, why don't you try swallowing it.

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quote:
Originally posted by Boojum:

quote:
Originally posted by martmann:

Gee, thanks for the helpful info. Your opinion is so important to me.


 

Hi, welcome to the United States of America, where (for now) everyone is entitled to have their say, even if someone doesn't want to hear it.

 

The point of my previous post was, why the hell do you think you need to carry a CONCEALED weapon when you are out in the boonies. If you are worried about mountain lions, you would be better off with your weapon easily available rather than hidden away.

 

And hey, if you are still wanting to conceal your pistol, why don't you try swallowing it.


 

Again, thanks, I will print this up and frame it. You are a fount of wisdom. And Yes, you are free to post what you like, and I am free to reply whatever way I like (what part of that don't you understand). I tend to show as much respect as I am shown.

 

_________________________________________________________

If trees could scream, would we still cut them down?

Well, maybe if they screamed all the time, for no reason.

Click here for my Geocaching pictures and Here (newest)

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Duh! I just deleted that question. Poor martmann already had a bunch of flack and had to answer that question. For some reason I got an email with the question but no answers, so I posted from my email thinking it was the first response. Sorry! Just a newbie to the boards, don't mind me.

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Okay, now after reading all these replies I'm a little nervous to head out into the woods alone. Do you guys think it's more dangerous for a woman? I suppose if it's wildlife that's the danger then gender wouldn't matter. I don't think a gun would be an option for me, I'd just end up shooting myself in the foot. I'm used to day hikes or extended hiking in groups, so being alone is intriguing but a bit scary.

 

On the issue of posts in this topic, some of the comments were both insulting and uneccesary. But I think that was pretty obvious.

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Just a comment from Oregon. Here in Oregon we haven't had any mountain lion attacks on humans yet but eventually we will. They changed the means which you are allowed to hunt mountain lions and this is leading to a very increased mountain lion population, so there should be some concerns about those big cats.

 

Personally I'm not nearly as concerned about the kitties or bears as much as I am about the most dangerous animal on earth, Man. It would be wonderful to live in a safe loving paradise but that doesn't exist.

 

I do have a carry permit for Oregon and it is accepted in Washington. I carry most of the time as I know there isn't going to be a cop ready to help me when I need help. I'm past the age of thinking I can use my fists to save my own butt.

 

My point is this, go get a permit. If you are pulled over by a cop for a traffic violation it will show up on their computer that you have a permit. This is a good thing. Crooks don't get permits so it usually makes the cop relax. Finding a gun on your person or even in your car without knowledge of a permit makes them nervous at best. The permit may not help you on the trail but it will help you while transportingit.

 

Please feel free to resume the name calling icon_wink.gif

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Would a gun really stop a mountain lion before it gets you ? Seems like if you didnt' get the perfect shot, you would make it very angry.

 

I have been running, hiking and mountian biking in Colorado and Oregon forests for 12 years(and I am a female). I have never come across a mountain lion, and bears only twice. I am absolutely convinced that the most dangerous part of my trip is always the drive to the trailhead.

 

Forget bananas, gimme some cheese!

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I have no problems with people who want to carry while caching. I can't think of a time that I would want to, but I do carry a knife and a large walking stick. (just in case I get lost in a large park in Beaverton, I can duct tape the knife to the stick and spear some nutrias icon_biggrin.gif). If you are going out into the wilderness Cheese, I wouldn't go alone but if you are talking about hiking around Forest Park, I don't think you have lots to worry about. Welcome to the sport and don't worry about the insults on here. It doesn't happen often.

 

-Quantum Mechanics: The dreams stuff is made of.-

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quote:
Originally posted by martmann:

Fortunately here in Washington state, Per [RCW 9.41.060] (8) you can carry concealed, while hiking (or doing any other lawful outdoor recreational activity, or going to, or coming from, that activity) without a permit. Few people know about this though, and I doubt many police know of it, so I'll carry a copy of the law, just so they know I'm not totally full of crap. Still, I'll only carry in extreme areas.

 

So my Question is: Have any of you carried concealed without a permit[?]


 

I don't have a problem with guns or anything, but i have to ask: why not just get the permit? I think it's cool that you found a loophole in the law and all, but it seems to me that you could save yourself a lot of trouble by just paying the five bucks or whatever.

 

all rights reserved, all wrongs reversed

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quote:
Originally posted by oregone:

quote:
Originally posted by martmann:

Fortunately here in Washington state, Per [RCW 9.41.060] (8) you can carry concealed, while hiking (or doing any other lawful outdoor recreational activity, or going to, or coming from, that activity) without a permit. Few people know about this though, and I doubt many police know of it, so I'll carry a copy of the law, just so they know I'm not totally full of crap. Still, I'll only carry in extreme areas.

 

So my Question is: Have any of you carried concealed without a permit[?]


 

I don't have a problem with guns or anything, but i have to ask: why not just get the permit? I think it's cool that you found a loophole in the law and all, but it seems to me that you could save yourself a lot of trouble by just paying the five bucks or whatever.

 

all rights reserved, all wrongs reversed


 

It's not a loophole, it was written that way for good reasons. Go to the link (you know, if you feel like it). Otherwise here's the answer to this question, that I posted above (yup, I know, way too much to read):

_________________________________________________________________________________________________

I don't feel the need to carry enough of the time to get a permit, in fact I haven't carried, even once, in over 11 years. The laws were written to cover me in the only situation I would feel the need to carry. I've found Police to be reasonable people, especially when you make an effort to make their job easier when they are dealing with you. It IS leagal to carry a concealed weapon while hiking, without a permit, the state laws are VERY clear on that. Any problem I would have with police would be temporary, and easily resolved.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

I think it is $60 for a WA state CCW permit.

 

Also, In WA state, it is not required that you notify a police officer that you are carrying concealed, unless they ask. I think I would volunteer the info if the situation called for it, I do have tremendous respect for the job Police have to do, I'm not out to fool them or get around any laws, on the contrary, I study the laws to prevent problems. But based on the posts by Moun10Bike and evergreenhiker!, and some online research I did today on mountain lion, and bear attack statistics, I wont be carrying any time soon, the area I want to go is not as extreme as I initially thought.

 

Open carry intimidates people (heck look at some of the replies I got for just typing about a gun), and can cause problems too, so If I do carry, it will be concealed.

 

_________________________________________________________

If trees could scream, would we still cut them down?

Well, maybe if they screamed all the time, for no reason.

Click here for my Geocaching pictures and Here (newest)

 

[This message was edited by martmann on June 14, 2003 at 02:59 AM.]

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One good thing to remember about the CCP permit is it's not just for guns. You'll need this permit to conceal knifes with certain blade lengths also. Another thing alot of people may not know is Washington state will honor a Oregon CCP. I'm not sure if Oregon does the same for Washington though.

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With all this talk about carrying weapons... you will be advised to note about handling weapons in Washington State. I served on a jury a few years back and a fellow ended up convicted for handling a weapon based on a little known provision. IF handling a weapon intimidates in any way any other person no matter the intent and no matter if it is loaded or not, you can be convicted for intimidation with a deadly weapon. I'll have to look up the reg, but that guy got a 3-time loser conviction over it.

 

Cheers!

TL

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This argument has taken on two levels.........one is discussing whether weapons should even be carried and the other is discussion the reasons for carrying a weapon.

 

I do not care to argue the pro's and con's of why you need to carry a gun. That doesnt interest me.

 

I will respond directly to martmaan. Yes I see the need to carry protection if you are going to areas where wild animals are. I have many times carried a gun that was secured to my belt for all to see many times I have went geocaching. I usually and almost always carry a large knife at my side when I geocache. I also carry a whistle and pepper spray with me now too.

 

I dont even care to debate with anyone whether I should even be in a location if I am scared of bear attacks, or other wild animal attacks. I feel allot more secure to have the capability of stopping him if the situation called for it. Sure I will try to look larger than the bear and defuse the situation that way. But what the hell good is that going to do if the bear charges you?

 

Dont really care if people think that the dangers are minimal. And no I will not stop hiking in those places where those dangers exist. It is my decision to carry a weapon and guaranteed in my constitutional rights.

 

I do not pull it out and point it at people...I am extremely responsible with it and treat it with the reverance it deserves.

 

Yep most of that last statements were in defense of myself because I know their is going to be a bunch of people what will respond and that would be my response to them.

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quote:
Originally posted by Syn:

I do not pull it out and point it at people...I am extremely responsible with it and treat it with the reverance it deserves.


No prudent law abiding citizen would.

 

However there are phobic(mentally disturbed) paranoid manic freaks that believe your possession of an innocuous inert mechanical device makes you a serial killer. I think they're off their medication.

 

39197_3100.jpg

Pepper playing nice!

I don't need a gun anymore. I have Pepper!

Mokita!

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All I got to say is if you're in Mountain Lion or bear country, any hunter will tell you a handgun or knife is not going to protect you unless you know what you are doing, best defense is knowing the area you are going, knowing the animals in that area, knowing what to do around such animals, and in the worst case knowing the weapons you are taking to such area. One's gotta love all the Crocodile Hunter's out there.

 

There was a young maid from Madras

Who had a magnificent a$$;

Not rounded and pink,

As you probably think---

It was grey, had long ears, and ate grass.

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But Leatherman

 

How far can Pepper spray?

 

And if anyone wants to comment on my comment?

 

I would have to be pretty high and mighty to say," This is what I think, and if you don't think like me, I forbid you from saying anything. But if you get a wild hair and do say something, I will call you names to prove to all your stupidity.

 

Priceless

 

But seriously, you guys are hilarious. Keep up the good work.

 

Way to go on that D+ Tommy Boy

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If you place it on the table and smack it real hard with a large wooden mallet it will spray approximatly all the way accross the kitchen till it splaters on the wall,,,

I carry a side arm at all times in the woods both Benchmarking AND caching,,mostly so people that would normally stop by and inquire as to what I am doing, see it and just keep my business to myself and go on their way.

As to the start of this post,, I cannot see where your reading that you have the right to carry a hidden weapon in the state of Washington while you are hiking. It is not leagel in Montana,,if not here than I cant believe it is in Washington. But it could be that I am reading it in a different way than you are. Course I never grad'i'guated law skool.

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quote:
Pepper playing nice![see photo]

I don't need a gun anymore. I have Pepper!

-and then-

How far can Pepper spray?

 

-followed by-

If you place it on the table and smack it real hard with a large wooden mallet it will spray approximatly all the way accross the kitchen till it splaters on the wall


 

That's no way to treat a dog!

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In Alaska, it will soon be legal to carry a concealed weapon with no permit at all. If you can legally carry a gun, you can carry concealed once the law goes into effect. Open carry has been allowed up here forever.

 

Vermont has had it this way for years. No sign of anarchy and blood in the streets from them so far.

 

I always carry a sidearm while caching unless it is a downtown Anchorage cache. Moose and bears are seen in parks here in town on a regular basis.

 

I make plenty of noise to scare off the bears, but moose could care less how much noise you make. If happen to get between a mother moose and her calf, you had better be a fast runner or be armed. Moose are more dangerous than bears in my opinion.

 

You all need not get all worked up about us law abiding types who carry guns. We have no intention of harming anyone. We carry to defend ourselves if the need arises. We are not out to rob you of your happy meal toys and notepads. icon_smile.gif

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have never been lost. Been awful confused for a few days, but never lost!

 

[This message was edited by Bilder on June 15, 2003 at 03:18 AM.]

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quote:
Originally posted by Montana Latitude:

...As to the start of this post,, I cannot see where your reading that you have the right to carry a hidden weapon in the state of Washington while you are hiking. It is not leagel in Montana,,if not here than I cant believe it is in Washington. But it could be that I am reading it in a different way than you are. Course I never grad'i'guated law skool.


 

Well it's pretty simple, if you visit the link that I posted, It goes to a Washington state gov. internet page titled: Exceptions to restrictions on carrying firearms.

 

item (8) says: Any person engaging in a lawful outdoor recreational activity such as hunting, fishing, camping, hiking, or horseback riding, only if, considering all of the attendant circumstances, including but not limited to whether the person has a valid hunting or fishing license, it is reasonable to conclude that the person is participating in lawful outdoor activities or is traveling to or from a legitimate outdoor recreation area.

 

If you go to the top of that page it gives you a link (RCW 9.41.050) to the state laws that cover carrying a firearm. it's in the sentence that says: Exceptions to restrictions on carrying firearms.

The provisions of RCW 9.41.050 shall not apply to: Then Item (8) is below that.

 

Not rocket science, in fact it's pretty darn clear. I do realize it's easy to miss the link, but I assure you I don't just make up laws.

 

Also, It is legal in Montana, they have a pretty similar law that reads (note: section 45-8-316 is the concealed carry laws):

 

45-8-317. Exceptions. (1) Section 45-8-316 does not apply to:

 

a person who is outside the official boundaries of a city or town or the confines of a logging, lumbering, mining, or railroad camp or who is lawfully engaged in hunting, fishing, trapping, camping, hiking, backpacking, farming, ranching, or other outdoor activity in which weapons are often carried for recreation or protection;

 

Please don't take this the wrong way. If you live in Montana and own guns, you may wish to learn the laws for your state, (and federal laws too), I think it's a good idea because cops do take guns pretty seriously. If you don't own guns, there isn't really a need, but you may find it interesting.

 

I forgot to add that Montana considers a sling shot to be a weapon that you can not conceal unlawfully, that struck me as funny.

_________________________________________________________

If trees could scream, would we still cut them down?

Well, maybe if they screamed all the time, for no reason.

Click here for my Geocaching pictures and Here (newest)

 

[This message was edited by martmann on June 15, 2003 at 04:58 AM.]

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I have a CWP and I pack most anytime I'm in the wilderness (or Tacoma). I carry a weapon for protection and for peace of mind. I often hike alone therefor it's quieter and I have a better chance of surprising an animal. It is good practice to pack something for defense even if it's only something that makes a loud sound. Pepper spray is ideal in that it's effects on people and animals are similar. It has been proven that bears do not like pepper spray. If it was me hiking after midnight in the tunnel or at the old Western State Hospital site in Steilacom, you can bet that I'm packing.

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quote:
Originally posted by Syn:

This argument has taken on two levels.........

 

I do not pull it out and point it at people...I am extremely responsible with it and treat it with the reverance it deserves.


 

Please don't take this the wrong way, because I'm not saying that's what you would do, however... and I repeat this is for the state of Washington... You don't have to pull it out and point it to intimidate. Circumstances and your personal actions is all it takes. That's how it was explained when this guy was convicted.

 

The reg reads:

RCW 9.41.270

Weapons apparently capable of producing bodily harm -- Unlawful carrying or handling -- Penalty -- Exceptions.

(1) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry, exhibit, display, or draw any firearm, dagger, sword, knife or other cutting or stabbing instrument, club, or any other weapon apparently capable of producing bodily harm, in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons.

 

In spite of your intent... all your action has to do is manifest an alarm in the other person and the weapon doesn't even have to be unholstered. Of course, there are exceptions built into this RCW

 

I'm just saying... be careful when carrying. This is a very slippery slope Washington has built in.

 

Cheers!

TL

 

[This message was edited by TotemLake on June 15, 2003 at 09:26 AM.]

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Hey martmann, all this talk about the Iron Horse Trail made me want to dust off my bike and head up there, and I did so yesterday. I planted another cache up there near the railbed, so there is starting to be quite a nice string of caches spaced 2-5 miles apart over a good length of the trail.

 

Even though it was a cloudy day, the trail was busy as usual. I was the second car at the trailhead when I started, but on my return there were about half a dozen more, and that's one of the lesser-used trailheads. I passed 9 hikers and at least 40-50 bikers during my 21-mile ride, and at the stops for the two caches I hadn't hit yet, 2 and 3 people, respectively, passed by. Needless to say, it is still a popular trail. Even so, it never feels crowded, and it is a great place to get out into the mountains.

 

icon_geocachingwa.gif

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quote:
Originally posted by chubby forest monkey:

 

I have been running, hiking and mountian biking in Colorado and Oregon forests for 12 years(and I am a female). I have never come across a mountain lion, and bears only twice. I am absolutely convinced that the most dangerous part of my trip is always the drive to the trailhead.


 

You are correct. However, in my last 12 years of mountain biking and hiking in Idaho and Washington forests, I've run into quite a few big game. I think that that's because I'm usually out biking solo, so I'm (too) quiet and usually come up on things quickly before they have time to react. I've come across a cougar twice, including an instance in which I rounded a corner and one was not more than 30 feet away. We both surprised the $*^@ out of each other and took off in opposite directions. I've also run into about 6 bear, but all have been juvenile in size. The scariest encounters, though, have been with moose. One was just last month and I describe that encounter in my log for this cache. The most frightening occurred while mountain biking at Priest Lake in Idaho. I had just finished a 20+ mile ride up into the mountains and was no more than a half-mile from our cabin. I was pretty tired and the sun had already set. I rounded a corner on a fire road on the final descent and smack dab in the middle of the road was a bull. Holy smokes, he was huge (although his rack was not that big). I was exhausted, and the only other way back to the cabin was to essentially backtrack the route I had just taken - not really feasible given the time and my energy level. Fortunately, the moose just nonchalantly trotted down the road and off into the trees, and I shot by as fast as I could.

 

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Just go for the CWP, had mine for about 20 years now. If I am out in the "deep" woods, I usually carry. Have run into about 4 bears, once a mom and her cub. That was fun. The only time I really pulled it out and safety off was when I was on a hill taking some great pictures of a valley, turned around to put the camera away and about 50 ft away was a mountain cat, we both just stared at each other for about 5 minutes. He was looking very thin and hungry.

 

"We never seek things for themselves - what we seek is the very seeking of things."

Blaise Pascal (1623-1662)

 

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quote:
Originally posted by Moun10Bike:

Hey martmann, all this talk about the Iron Horse Trail made me want to dust off my bike and head up there, and I did so yesterday. I planted http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?id=74649 up there near the railbed, so there is starting to be quite a nice string of caches spaced 2-5 miles apart over a good length of the trail.

 

Even though it was a cloudy day, the trail was busy as usual. I was the second car at the trailhead when I started, but on my return there were about half a dozen more, and that's one of the lesser-used trailheads. I passed 9 hikers and at least 40-50 bikers during my 21-mile ride, and at the stops for the two caches I hadn't hit yet, 2 and 3 people, respectively, passed by. Needless to say, it is still a popular trail. Even so, it never feels crowded, and it is a great place to get out into the mountains.

 

http://geocachingwa.org

 

I saw that cache come up shortly after approval and was very close to making a night run right then, to be first finder. But I would have taken the short cut, and not really gotten the intended effect, so I'll catch it during the day sometime this week if the weather stays nice. Thanks.

 

_________________________________________________________

If trees could scream, would we still cut them down?

Well, maybe if they screamed all the time, for no reason.

Click here for my Geocaching pictures and Here (newest)

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quote:
Originally posted by Boojum:

quote:
Originally posted by martmann:

Gee, thanks for the helpful info. Your opinion is so important to me.


 

Hi, welcome to the United States of America, where (for now) everyone is entitled to have their say, even if someone doesn't want to hear it.

 

The point of my previous post was, why the hell do you think you need to carry a CONCEALED weapon when you are out in the boonies. If you are worried about mountain lions, you would be better off with your weapon easily available rather than hidden away.

 

And hey, if you are still wanting to conceal your pistol, why don't you try swallowing it.


 

Why whould you want to advertise? I can't think of a single good reason to advertise a weapon and a lot of reasons why being discrete is the better decision.

 

As for reason Numober 8 in the list of those who don't need a permit, you would need a lawyer to figure out if geocaching was one of those valid activites or hit enough elements of the valid activities to be an exception.

 

=====================

Wherever you go there you are.

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quote:
Originally posted by Renegade Knight:

As for reason Numober 8 in the list of those who don't need a permit, you would need a lawyer to figure out if geocaching was one of those valid activites or hit enough elements of the valid activities to be an exception.


Very good point. Everything is subjective to a lawyer. Why put your self in that position. Just get the permit and carry concealed.

 

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Pepper playing nice!

Mokita!

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quote:
Originally posted by Renegade Knight:

quote:
Originally posted by Boojum:

quote:
Originally posted by martmann:

Gee, thanks for the helpful info. Your opinion is so important to me.


 

Hi, welcome to the United States of America, where (for now) everyone is entitled to have their say, even if someone doesn't want to hear it.

 

The point of my previous post was, why the hell do you think you need to carry a CONCEALED weapon when you are out in the boonies. If you are worried about mountain lions, you would be better off with your weapon easily available rather than hidden away.

 

And hey, if you are still wanting to conceal your pistol, why don't you try swallowing it.


 

Why whould you want to advertise? I can't think of a single good reason to advertise a weapon and a lot of reasons why being discrete is the better decision.

 

As for reason Numober 8 in the list of those who don't need a permit, you would need a lawyer to figure out if geocaching was one of those valid activites or hit enough elements of the valid activities to be an exception.

 

=====================

Wherever you go there you are.


 

I beleive the 'hiking' thing will cover it. If you go hiking into the woods to watch birds, you are still hiking in the woods. But I absolutely agree that open carry is not a good idea. For me at least, the legality of carrying concealed without a permit while hiking is not an issue, the law is clear. I will not buy a permit, I don't need a permit. But I also won't be armed when I hike the Iron Horse Trail.

 

_________________________________________________________

If trees could scream, would we still cut them down?

Well, maybe if they screamed all the time, for no reason.

Click here for my Geocaching pictures and Here (newest)

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Renegade Knight wrote:

quote:
As for reason Numober 8 in the list of those who don't need a permit, you would need a lawyer to figure out if geocaching was one of those valid activites

 

OK, here I am :-)

 

The way I read it is as follows:

 

RCW 9.41.050, which prohibits carrying concealed weapons outside of your house or office, doesn't apply if you are ''engaging in a lawful outdoor recreational activity such as hunting, fishing, camping, hiking, or horseback riding, only if, considering all of the attendant circumstances, including but not limited to whether the person has a valid hunting or fishing license, it is reasonable to conclude that the person is participating in lawful outdoor activities or is traveling to or from a legitimate outdoor recreation area''

 

Given the hypothetical situation that you're leaving Federal Way, driving up to Snoqualmie, and geocaching along the Iron Horse trail, it comes down to the following:

 

Is geocaching a lawful activity?

The Iron Horse trail is open to the public. You're not trespassing. Therefore, your hike along the trail is not unlawful trespassing.

If I remember correctly, to use the trail you have to pay the trailhead fee. If you don't pay the fee, you may be unlawfully engaging in the activity, which would put you back on the RCW 9.41.050 hook.

When I met with the trooper from the bomb squad in March 2002, he said that it sounded like a good activity, and he returned my cache to me without arresting me. This experience is evidence that it's not viewed as unlawful littering by the Washington State Patrol.

 

Is geocaching ''an outdoor ...activity such as ... camping, hiking, or horseback riding''?

I'd say yes, although I could visualize some jury considering the the hike through tunnel itself to be indoors. I wouldn't, but some jury might.

Hiking is an integral part of this specific cache hunt, so yes, I'd also say it was an activity similar to hiking.

 

Is geocaching ''recreational''?

I don't think this question could be seriously argued against, so I won't address it here.

 

The ''license'' clause

The clause about ''whether the person has a valid hunting or fishing license'' doesn't directly apply here, since geocaching isn't really like hunting or fishing. Your WSGA membership card, however, might come in useful by analogy. Combined with a cache printout and a GPS, they're strong evidence that you're more likely than not to be participating in the outdoor activity of geocaching.

 

Now, what if, while on your way from Federal Way to Snoqualmie, you stop at McDonalds in North Bend for breakfast? Can you continue to carry a concealed weapon without a license? Maybe, but I wouldn't try it. An argument could be made that your trip off of the direct path (I-90) takes you off the route to or from a legitimate outdoor recreation area, and that this is not a minor detour but rather an off-route 'frolic'. Yeah, that's kind of goofy, but I wouldn't chance it.

 

Unless you're actively geocaching, I'd make sure to carry my weapon ''in a closed opaque case''. RCW 9.41.060(9).

 

By the way, just to cover myself, anyone reading this is not my client, unless I explicitly tell them otherwise, in a signed non-electronic document, or if I've had a lawyer-client relationship with them prior to the posting of this message.

 

WWJD? JW RTFM.

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Thank you travisl, I really was hoping you would post on this. That's pretty much how I figured, (didn't think of the trail head fee though, thanks). If I was to carry, I would transport to and from the trail head, in a double locked pelican case (see picture of the very case I'm talking about), with empty chamber and magazine, in the back of my car, so no worries there.

 

Still, not going to carry for the Iron Horse Trail, but someplace else may come up, so it's nice to know the opinion of somebody with a mind that is tuned to think law.

 

107436_3000.jpg

 

_________________________________________________________

If trees could scream, would we still cut them down?

Well, maybe if they screamed all the time, for no reason.

Click here for my Geocaching pictures and Here (newest)

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I'm with Chubby Forest Monkey. Never seen anything worthy of shooting. The only time we felt threatened by something was a rattlesnake and illDRIVE took care of that one with a large rock. Never been attacked. The risk of being run over by a speeding VW Thing driven by a transvestite amped up on Vivarin and Smarties is probably greater than being attacked by an animal in the woods. I agree with whoever said the greatest threat would be from HUMANS...(we seem to get a lot of weirdos in the Northwest).. I realize that anyone..ESPECIALLY a female.. walking alone.. can become an open opportunity for some perp to attack. It is always a good idea to be aware of your surroundings.

 

illDRIVE and I generally cache together but are planning a trip where I hope to do more photo taking and less actual container finding. Since we wouldn't be together all the time, and only have one Fifedog to protect us... I was thinking of just carrying a little canister of mace in my bag. If I don't mace myself, it will be a miracle. And at least it wouldn't kill me if it misfired.

 

Anyone else carry anything for protection (other than guns) while hiking?

 

WARNING: I cannot be responsible for the above, as apparently my cats have learned how to type.

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quote:
Originally posted by Zzzoey:

 

Anyone else carry anything for protection (other than guns) while hiking?

 

Oh yeah, and we were thinking of borrowing or buying some walkie talkies. Any suggestions on what to look for? Not into spending a whole lot.


 

I always have my Spyderco Endura Knife, more as a tool than protection.

 

Costco has a couple of pretty good deals on a Pair of FRS radios (max 2 mile range) for under $30, or, a pair of Motorola FRS/GMS radios (Max range 5 miles) for under $50.

 

_________________________________________________________

If trees could scream, would we still cut them down?

Well, maybe if they screamed all the time, for no reason.

Click here for my Geocaching pictures and Here (newest)

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I must say travisl makes the case for basically squelching the whines and moans of the morons <excuse me> persons who must argue the case of whether or not to pack while geocaching.

 

I would sure feel better knowing I was cachin' with someone packing heat <like martmann> in case of an emergency rather than someone <no names divulged> carrying exclusively a cell phone and GPS.

 

If it's an activity protected by the constitution and local laws, don't argue the merits if it doesn't suit your fancy. Just suck it up and find a new discussion to post on.

 

I must say though it's entertaining to me, growing up in the Northwest, watching, reading and listening to the liberal thought processes that tend to be very shallow in "thought" area and extremely based on the "emotions of the day."

 

Next thing you know people will start saying that you're supporting terrorism not only because you drive an SUV, but also because you pack a weapon. <sigh> Glad there's those of us in the world who can fight for "their" right to have freedom of speech.

 

[This message was edited by kowtow on June 23, 2003 at 06:45 AM.]

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