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Posting coord's on webpage accessible to non-Geocachers?


wildchld97

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The Ohio River Trail Council posted the names and coordinates to many of the existing caches in one of our local parks. Is that a violation of some guidelines? If non members have this information, I'd be afraid of these caches getting muggled or compromised somehow. Here is the link.

 

http://membership.ohiorivertrail.org/index.php/2-uncategorised/94-gear-cheer-geocaching

Edited by wildchld97
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The Ohio River Trail Council posted the names and coordinates to many of the existing caches in one of our local parks. Is that a violation of some guidelines? If non members have this information, I'd be afraid of these caches getting muggled or compromised somehow. Here is the link.

 

This is a Terms of Use issue, not a guidelines issue.

 

It's not against any rules if either the cache owners or Groundspeak gave permission. If neither did, then there would be a problem.

Edited by fizzymagic
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I'm the owner of one of the listed caches. It's been around for 13 years in its original container (and a very unique one, at that). I do worry for my cache, since the coordinates are broadcast "in the clear." I wouldn't have minded if all they did was link to the cache pages, since you need to have an account in order to view the coordinates and other details.

 

So what should an affected cache owner do?

1. Let it slide.

2. Make the cache available to Premium Members Only.

3. Contact the organization myself.

4. Contact Geocaching HQ and let them take up the issue on behalf of all the affected cache owners.

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The Ohio River Trail Council posted the names and coordinates to many of the existing caches in one of our local parks. Is that a violation of some guidelines? If non members have this information, I'd be afraid of these caches getting muggled or compromised somehow. Here is the link.

 

http://membership.ohiorivertrail.org/index.php/2-uncategorised/94-gear-cheer-geocaching

 

I just see links to published geocaches on geocaching.com and navicache, no posted coordinates on a non-geocaching site. :unsure:

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The Ohio River Trail Council posted the names and coordinates to many of the existing caches in one of our local parks. Is that a violation of some guidelines? If non members have this information, I'd be afraid of these caches getting muggled or compromised somehow. Here is the link.

 

http://membership.ohiorivertrail.org/index.php/2-uncategorised/94-gear-cheer-geocaching

 

I just see links to published geocaches on geocaching.com and navicache, no posted coordinates on a non-geocaching site. :unsure:

 

There's a large image part way down with the title "Ohio River Trail Council Gear & Cheer" which has the large Geocaching flag, and to the right of that a list of cache names, each with co-ords below.

 

This one: http://membership.ohiorivertrail.org/attachments/article/94/ORTC_Moon_Festival_Geocaching_Flyer.pdf

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The Ohio River Trail Council posted the names and coordinates to many of the existing caches in one of our local parks. Is that a violation of some guidelines? If non members have this information, I'd be afraid of these caches getting muggled or compromised somehow. Here is the link.

 

http://membership.ohiorivertrail.org/index.php/2-uncategorised/94-gear-cheer-geocaching

 

the rules and guidelines only apply to people that agree to them. the rest of the world did not agree to them, so are not bound by them. that's what is hilarious about rules and guidelines. ;-)

 

EVERYTHING you do on the internet should be considered public, since it likely is ;-)

 

the caches might get hit a few times after the flyer goes out, but then will go back to normal. no biggie.

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The Ohio River Trail Council posted the names and coordinates to many of the existing caches in one of our local parks. Is that a violation of some guidelines? If non members have this information, I'd be afraid of these caches getting muggled or compromised somehow. Here is the link.

 

http://membership.ohiorivertrail.org/index.php/2-uncategorised/94-gear-cheer-geocaching

 

I just see links to published geocaches on geocaching.com and navicache, no posted coordinates on a non-geocaching site. :unsure:

 

There's a large image part way down with the title "Ohio River Trail Council Gear & Cheer" which has the large Geocaching flag, and to the right of that a list of cache names, each with co-ords below.

 

This one: http://membership.ohiorivertrail.org/attachments/article/94/ORTC_Moon_Festival_Geocaching_Flyer.pdf

 

Before coffee anything other than NAD83 looked like a phone number to me. :anicute:

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I also just placed a travel bug in the "Get some practice in" cache.

 

https://www.geocaching.com/geocache/GC19X7Q_get-some-practice-in-1-home-run?guid=3a61bd06-4c79-46ba-aaed-13405e0ffea8

 

I'm not going to be happy if I have to revisit this cache before this event to rescue it before some non geocache thinks its a cute "trinket" for trade. The poor guy traveled too many miles for that. Lol

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I also just placed a travel bug in the "Get some practice in" cache.

 

https://www.geocaching.com/geocache/GC19X7Q_get-some-practice-in-1-home-run?guid=3a61bd06-4c79-46ba-aaed-13405e0ffea8

 

I'm not going to be happy if I have to revisit this cache before this event to rescue it before some non geocache thinks its a cute "trinket" for trade. The poor guy traveled too many miles for that. Lol

OT, did you really chop down vines and berry thickets to make it easier to access a cache belonging to another?

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OT, did you really chop down vines and berry thickets to make it easier to access a cache belonging to another?

 

LOL! The path to this cache was indeed overgrown with plants from hell! I felt like I was exploring the Amazon jungle. I only cleared enough to get through. Good luck for the next pour soul. Lol!

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I'm the owner of one of the listed caches. It's been around for 13 years in its original container (and a very unique one, at that). I do worry for my cache, since the coordinates are broadcast "in the clear." I wouldn't have minded if all they did was link to the cache pages, since you need to have an account in order to view the coordinates and other details.

 

So what should an affected cache owner do?

1. Let it slide.

2. Make the cache available to Premium Members Only.

3. Contact the organization myself.

4. Contact Geocaching HQ and let them take up the issue on behalf of all the affected cache owners.

1. I'm not sure very many people will be looking at that page in the first place so there may not be anything to worry about. But, since yours is an older cache that you're probably proud of, and with original container, i don't think i'd let it stand. Having the coordinates listed this way does make it easier for problems to arise.

2. Making it PM won't work since the coordinates are posted right there.

3. Contacting the organization would be my choice. I would be nice but i would make sure to point out my concerns. Having my cache listed might be fine but not with the coordinates showing.

4. Unless i thought it was against some TOS, i wouldn't contact gc.com.

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I'm the owner of one of the listed caches. It's been around for 13 years in its original container (and a very unique one, at that). I do worry for my cache, since the coordinates are broadcast "in the clear." I wouldn't have minded if all they did was link to the cache pages, since you need to have an account in order to view the coordinates and other details.

 

So what should an affected cache owner do?

1. Let it slide.

2. Make the cache available to Premium Members Only.

3. Contact the organization myself.

4. Contact Geocaching HQ and let them take up the issue on behalf of all the affected cache owners.

1. I'm not sure very many people will be looking at that page in the first place so there may not be anything to worry about. But, since yours is an older cache that you're probably proud of, and with original container, i don't think i'd let it stand. Having the coordinates listed this way does make it easier for problems to arise.

2. Making it PM won't work since the coordinates are posted right there.

3. Contacting the organization would be my choice. I would be nice but i would make sure to point out my concerns. Having my cache listed might be fine but not with the coordinates showing.

4. Unless i thought it was against some TOS, i wouldn't contact gc.com.

 

Maybe I'm missing something here, Leprechaun, but I see your cache listed in the links to cache pages, but I don't see it in the list of caches where the coordinates are given. I count 16 caches in the "links" list and 13 in the "coordinates" list. Anyway, if it were my cache I'd remove it and disable it promptly. Then think about whether I could find another good place to rehide it. I'm sure your local reviewer would allow a move even if it was more than .1 mi. ;)

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the rules and guidelines only apply to people that agree to them. the rest of the world did not agree to them, so are not bound by them. that's what is hilarious about rules and guidelines. ;-)

Of course, for someone to get the coordinates, they had to create an account and agree to the Terms of Use. Therefore, somewhere along the line someone agreed to the ToU and then seemingly* violated them. As per the ToU (bolding is mine):

 

C. License. Subject to your compliance with this Agreement, Groundspeak hereby grants you a limited, non-exclusive, non-transferable, fully revocable license to view and use our services for your own personal, non-commercial purposes in accordance with this Agreement and any guidelines or policies posted on our websites or applications.
D. Restrictions. Permission to use our services is subject to the following restrictions. Whether these restrictions have been violated shall be determined in our sole discretion. You agree not to:

...

iii.Use our services, including GPX files, for any purpose other than your personal use without our written permission.

 

*I say this because we don't have any hard evidence that any ToU violation has occurred. It doesn't sound like the COs of the caches were consulted, but for all we know Groundspeak may have been.

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If I had an old, precious cache there, I'd just disable and retrieve it for a month or two, then replace it. If it were a standard container, let it slide, and be prepared to check on it and maintain it shortly. I'd evacuate any trackables too....

 

I will be going to their event, so I will unfortunately have to retrace my steps and retrieve the trackable and secure it so its not taken inadvertantly. dadgum, my legs and arms just healed from that mess. Lol

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If I had an old, precious cache there, I'd just disable and retrieve it for a month or two, then replace it.

 

That seems like the best plan for a historic or otherwise valuable cache.

 

Of course, the best way to prevent this kind of thing is to hide puzzle caches. :laughing:

 

ETA: I misread the post when replying so I said stupid things that don't apply.

Edited by fizzymagic
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the rules and guidelines only apply to people that agree to them. the rest of the world did not agree to them, so are not bound by them. that's what is hilarious about rules and guidelines. ;-)

Of course, for someone to get the coordinates, they had to create an account and agree to the Terms of Use. Therefore, somewhere along the line someone agreed to the ToU and then seemingly* violated them. As per the ToU (bolding is mine):

 

C. License. Subject to your compliance with this Agreement, Groundspeak hereby grants you a limited, non-exclusive, non-transferable, fully revocable license to view and use our services for your own personal, non-commercial purposes in accordance with this Agreement and any guidelines or policies posted on our websites or applications.
D. Restrictions. Permission to use our services is subject to the following restrictions. Whether these restrictions have been violated shall be determined in our sole discretion. You agree not to:

...

iii.Use our services, including GPX files, for any purpose other than your personal use without our written permission.

 

*I say this because we don't have any hard evidence that any ToU violation has occurred. It doesn't sound like the COs of the caches were consulted, but for all we know Groundspeak may have been.

 

ya, someone violated the rules, sometime, somewhere, to get the coordinates, but it really doesn't matter to the person with the flyer. apparently the rules meant nothing to the person who did it either. that's the point :-)

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Looks like grounspeak (or someone impersonating them) followed your lead, and have also posted asking them to remove the co-ords.

 

Would Geocaching.com really use a Facebook comment to post a legal warning (with clumsy writing and poor spelling to boot)?

 

Link or it didn't happen.

 

Oh, never mind. I see it. Had to turn on javascript.

 

I would guess that gc.com will be considerably more upset by the idiot who impersonated them than by the TOS violation.

Edited by fizzymagic
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Looks like grounspeak (or someone impersonating them) followed your lead, and have also posted asking them to remove the co-ords.

 

Would Geocaching.com really use a Facebook comment to post a legal warning (with clumsy writing and poor spelling to boot)?

 

Link or it didn't happen.

 

Oh, never mind. I see it. Had to turn on javascript.

 

I would guess that gc.com will be considerably more upset by the idiot who impersonated them than by the TOS violation.

 

I don't see why I am the one receiving a demand for a link that was in the original post.

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It's probably not that bad. How many muggles even know how to enter coordinates into a GPS? I'd guess 99% of muggling is a crime of opportunity rather than a complicated mission requiring knowledge, drive, a gps and disposable time

If we assume that people don't know how to enter coords into a GPSr, there's little value in posting the coords. Remove them. Anyway, they're in a strange format, so that's bound to confuse many. Coords alone, especially if in a format different from an ordinary factory-set GPSr, are not good for responsible Geocaching. The coords provide no info about the cache, except location. For example, you won't know if the cache was archived, nor why.

 

And I wouldn't want coords for my caches saved as an image on a web site. My cache might need a coordinate update. But not often, because my coords are always perfect. B)

 

I'd say the Lepre's answer #4 is good, so if this case seems to be a problem, contact Groundspeak. They can deal with it. I'm guessing that info about a handful of caches, posted by an enthusiastic park employee, is not what the TOU addresses. That is, GS might not consider it a big deal (compared to scraping and posting many pages of info). But it would be best if just the links were there and not the actual coords.

Edited by kunarion
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Protesting against it would be a good way to get all geocaches banned from the parks. Just let it go.

 

I can see it now.

 

Groundspeak: (with their lawyer), we understand you are posted coordinates of geocaches located in....

 

Non profit trail group: Okay, we will contact the public park officials and have your geocaches removed.

 

Not smart to do. We all lose

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Did they fix it. I see only links and you have to log in to see them.

 

No they're still there, on the flyer, but the comments, including the one purporting to be from Groundpseak, seem to have gone (unless that is driven by some scripting that's blocked from my work PC).

 

On the whole I think gpsblake hit the nail on the head. The impact of complaining about it is likely to be greater than the impact of just letting it go.

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Did they fix it. I see only links and you have to log in to see them.

 

No they're still there, on the flyer, but the comments, including the one purporting to be from Groundpseak, seem to have gone (unless that is driven by some scripting that's blocked from my work PC).

 

On the whole I think gpsblake hit the nail on the head. The impact of complaining about it is likely to be greater than the impact of just letting it go.

 

I'm still seeing the posts and coordinates.

 

Otherwise, we will take further disciplinary action against your account.
Yep, wouldn't want to get in a squabble with the park system. :anibad:
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Different approach -- attend the event, and encourage your other geocaching buddies to do the same.

Educate the newbies on geocaching -- rehiding, trading, trackables, etc.

Thank the park system for their efforts, but gently mention to them that the flyers will go out of date, the coordinates might change, caches get archived ... so they shouldn't put them in the hard copy.

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Different approach -- attend the event, and encourage your other geocaching buddies to do the same.

Educate the newbies on geocaching -- rehiding, trading, trackables, etc.

Thank the park system for their efforts, but gently mention to them that the flyers will go out of date, the coordinates might change, caches get archived ... so they shouldn't put them in the hard copy.

 

Good idea....

 

 

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Different approach -- attend the event, and encourage your other geocaching buddies to do the same.

Educate the newbies on geocaching -- rehiding, trading, trackables, etc.

Thank the park system for their efforts, but gently mention to them that the flyers will go out of date, the coordinates might change, caches get archived ... so they shouldn't put them in the hard copy.

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