Geocaching.com, get your act together!

[+NLBokkie]

Sorry to have to write this, but I'm feeling geocaching.com is currently not providing the service they're supposed to deliver in many IT-related areas. Just to name a few:

 

- The whole App issue. Withdrawing a perfectly well working app first, only to have it replaced with an app that doesn't work the way we play the game. It's still missing many of the promised features, many of which we had in the old app. And I'm not even getting started about the (in my eyes) wrong concept of only being able to find extremely simple caches for non-members. But there is no backup anymore now, and many cachers had to find alternatives outside of what geocaching.com is giving. I'm not starting another rave on the app here - the forum is full of them already.

- Notifications are sent out on/off, with no indication for the users on which are sent and which not. They are totally in the dark about what they are missing as a result. This is an issue for almost a month now.

- Message center is working on and off. Sometimes we see nothing after a refresh, sometimes just frames, sometimes we happen to see all we expect to see. This too has been an issue for quite some time.

- On top of that are today's new Map issues. The icons of caches can be found, but none can be selected. As a result, the map is useless as we cannot select any caches on it.

 

Many of the above issues are not new, but have been there for weeks or even months now. There is almost no or totally no communications about these issues from geocaching.com, not confirming that they have found this an issue too, not confirming that they're working on the issues, not providing any insight in how these issues are tackled or when they are supposed to be tackled, and not giving any time scale either on when we can expect to have issues sorted. Many of their users are getting very frustrated for this total lack of communication let alone proper expectation management.

 

Thinking about many of these issues, I see lots of problems on geocaching.com side. They are not only IT related, but the lacking communication and apparent lack of planning leaves everybody in the dark with no light at the end of the tunnel to be seen. It feels like geocaching.com is not taking their users serious at this moment.

 

I'm a paying member, from the very beginning of when I started geocaching 3 years ago. But I feel I can now no longer trust geocaching.com on being able to provide the services they promise to us. Please, get your act together asap, geocaching.com. Not being able to solve some issues that were not there before (why not rolling back to that situation?) is one thing. But nocommunication about what's going on and what we can expect is another, that can be easily dealt with!

 

Thank you!

Edited August 21, 2016 by NLBokkie

[+Touchstone]

Just addressing the communication concern. Most, if not all, the relevant communication for major issues that you brought up, will more than likely be communicated in the Release Notes section of the Forum. Last update was 7/27, although none of the issues appeared to be addressed. If it's not there, I would assume the answer is, "workin' on it".

[+The Leprechauns]

So you start a thread called "get your act together" and the post includes false statements like "total lack of communications." No wonder that Lackeys don't reply in the forums with daily updates about each and every thing they're working on!

 

Me, I happily continue to use the Geocaching Classic app. Once a few key (to me) features like Field Notes port over to the free app, I will switch. Someday, the full move of features over to the free app will be completed. If Geocaching HQ waited until then to stop selling the Classic app, and suddenly switched it off, the forums would be full of "Fraud! Fraud!" threads.

 

I laugh each time I read a rant saying "Geocaching is supposed to be free!" If you object to paying $30 per year for a premium membership so you can see all the caches on your smartphone app, go buy a dedicated handheld GPS unit. The first thing I did when I discovered this website in 2002 was to spend several hundred dollars on a Garmin GPS-V so that I could join the fun. The maps were crude vector line maps, there was no message center and no instant notification message for new caches. But, as a regular member I could download 90-something percent of all the caches onto my GPS, and that remains true today.

 

Today, of course, I'm a premium member. Each year I get more and more new features, but each year the price remains fixed at $30. I cannot think of any other item in my budget whose price has remained constant for fourteen years.

[+T.D.M.22]

Stuff happens, and it's not intentional. And you really have no right to expect them to do something you can't do, so if you can't help them fix the map and notification issues, how do you expect someone else to fix it? It's not easy to fix something that's worked fine for a long time then just stopped.

[+cheech gang]

Stuff happens, and it's not intentional. And you really have no right to expect them to do something you can't do, so if you can't help them fix the map and notification issues, how do you expect someone else to fix it? It's not easy to fix something that's worked fine for a long time then just stopped.

 

What an odd slant on things. I know exactly zero about how to fix anything that has to do with a website. That is not my job. It is my job to allow them to use my $30 per year as they see fit.

[+Mudfrog]

Stuff happens, and it's not intentional. And you really have no right to expect them to do something you can't do, so if you can't help them fix the map and notification issues, how do you expect someone else to fix it? It's not easy to fix something that's worked fine for a long time then just stopped.

 

What an odd slant on things. I know exactly zero about how to fix anything that has to do with a website. That is not my job. It is my job to allow them to use my $30 per year as they see fit.

T.D.M's reply struck me funny as well. I have no idea how to set up a website or how to do programming. Groundspeak has hired, and is paying people to take care of this.

[+T.D.M.22]

That's my point. People want things done but they don't know about that stuff. They think it's all easy all the time. Don't realize that some stuff takes work and time so they complain and assume nothing's being done. If these people (like the OP) have a potential solution, then bring it up. If they don't know what's happening ask what's happening. Don't come in all med and entitled or whatever.

[+dprovan]

That's my point. People want things done but they don't know about that stuff. They think it's all easy all the time. Don't realize that some stuff takes work and time so they complain and assume nothing's being done. If these people (like the OP) have a potential solution, then bring it up. If they don't know what's happening ask what's happening. Don't come in all med and entitled or whatever.

While I admit you have a point -- people complaining having no clue how much effort is involved -- I have to admit, I'm getting the uncomfortable impression that GS is trying to figure out how to make money out of this -- admittedly -- golden goose they've laid. So far, I'm ready to give them a lot of slack because they deserve to cash in on geocaching.com, but, at the same time, I have to have some sympathy for people that complain that the focus is shifting away from geocachers.

[+NLBokkie]

That's my point. People want things done but they don't know about that stuff. They think it's all easy all the time. Don't realize that some stuff takes work and time so they complain and assume nothing's being done. If these people (like the OP) have a potential solution, then bring it up. If they don't know what's happening ask what's happening. Don't come in all med and entitled or whatever.

 

T.D.M.22, I understand what your point of view is. But I happen to know exactly what I'm talking about. I've been in IT as both a hardcore technician (infrastructures, so networks, servers etc.) and project manager for more than 20 years. I cannot solve the problems I see from geocaching.com without knowing all the details. And I don't plan to solve these issues either, but am happy to leave them with geocaching.com staff to solve as they know how their IT landscape is set up.

 

But:

1. Replacing an app that totally works by an app that doesn't (or is lacking in the functionality that the old app had), then redraw that old app and tell everybody to use the new one with all the issues is simply very bad judgement. The old app should only have been replaced with the new one after it was fully tested and at least would have all the functionality the old app had. Additional new functionality could then be applied later.

2. No changes to website or any systems functionality should have been made without intensive offline testing in a separate environment. I just have this hunch that that is something that isn't done properly due to new issues that seem to pop up all the time. These issues seem to surprise geocaching.com, as it takes them a lot of time to solve or are not solved at all.

3. As a standard measure, before any change is made, a full backup of the environment with all affected systems should be made in order to be able to "roll back" the situation in case issues are found after the change. Being able to roll back to the old situation doesn't usually solve the technical issue that was introduced with the change. But at least the system gets back to a known situation that was known to work, and it gives the IT team time to solve the issue, solve it and test it intensively offline before reapplying that change again.

 

Now I can't tell how the landscape is set up with geocaching.com. But what I see happening now is usually the result of bad planning, no testing or not testing rigorously enough, not identifying what is needed to do a roll back, and possibly not made backups in order to be able to do a roll back. But I'm guessing here, as I don't know the specifics.

 

On top of that, what I'm missing is communication on:

1. What changes geocaching.com is planning to do when, and what impact that could have for their users, upfront of a change.

2. If issues are found after applying a change, what issues are found, if they are indeed recognized as issues, what their impact is supposed to be, what is planned to be done about it (what is the position of the issue on the priority ladder) and when we can expect the issue to be solved.

 

Simply put, as an end user I'm not recognizing the results of anything like change management, problem management, issue/incident management or any of the processes (like ITIL, MOF etc) that exist in professional IT business for a long time already. These processes exist to prevent from issues like we see now to pop up to begin with. But these processes also help in getting issues sorted once they pop up and keep the impact as low as possible for the end user. I'm really not talking rocket science here, just standard basic ICT management processes that are used all over the world.

 

But I have to admit that Touchstone is correct in stating that the Release Notes section of this forum does indeed come up with some details on changes. However, I don't see any of the current website, notifications or message related issues mentioned there.

Edited August 22, 2016 by NLBokkie

[+Pontiac_CZ]

I agree with OP and have expected such a post to come. The GS do nearly nothing lately, many issues have been present for years (the map for instance - now it's even worse). Maybe they are working on something in the background but they simply do not let us know. I am a paying member as well and I'm deeply disappointed with their behavior.

[+MartyBartfast]

That's my point. People want things done but they don't know about that stuff. They think it's all easy all the time. Don't realize that some stuff takes work and time so they complain and assume nothing's being done. If these people (like the OP) have a potential solution, then bring it up. If they don't know what's happening ask what's happening. Don't come in all med and entitled or whatever.

 

T.D.M.22, I understand what your point of view is. But I happen to know exactly what I'm talking about. I've been in IT as both a hardcore technician (infrastructures, so networks, servers etc.) and project manager for more than 20 years. I cannot solve the problems I see from geocaching.com without knowing all the details. And I don't plan to solve these issues either, but am happy to leave them with geocaching.com staff to solve as they know how their IT landscape is set up.

 

 

Me too, and I agree with everything NLBokkie has said. I'm not affected by the app issue as I don't use it, but the recurring problems with the website are unacceptable. It's simply inconceivable that something along the lines of the Email notifications (which hasn't worked properly for about a month) would be allowed to have happened at the places I've worked for the last 10 years.

 

Edit to add: (just realised I quoted the wrong poster name originally)

Edited August 22, 2016 by MartyBartfast

[+Mudfrog]

That's my point. People want things done but they don't know about that stuff. They think it's all easy all the time. Don't realize that some stuff takes work and time so they complain and assume nothing's being done. If these people (like the OP) have a potential solution, then bring it up. If they don't know what's happening ask what's happening. Don't come in all med and entitled or whatever.

 

T.D.M.22, I understand what your point of view is. But I happen to know exactly what I'm talking about. I've been in IT as both a hardcore technician (infrastructures, so networks, servers etc.) and project manager for more than 20 years. I cannot solve the problems I see from geocaching.com without knowing all the details. And I don't plan to solve these issues either, but am happy to leave them with geocaching.com staff to solve as they know how their IT landscape is set up.

 

 

Me too, and I agree with everything T.D.M.22 has said. I'm not affected by the app issue as I don't use it, but the recurring problems with the website are unacceptable. It's simply inconceivable that something along the lines of the Email notifications (which hasn't worked properly for about a month) would be allowed to have happened at the places I've worked for the last 10 years.

I realize it's not easy at times. But the way i see it, there seems to always be something out of kilter here at gc.com that, imo, good IT personnel should should have been on top of. Other higher traffic websites that i use and visit may have an occasional hiccup but nothing compared to the regularity of problems this site has. My opinion is that the focus is on the app and throwing stuff out to entice new players. The problem is, the stuff is not complete and working across all platforms when it's thrown out. Communication with members, especially the paying ones, could definitely be improved as well.

 

And yes, it's irritating that i paid for the app and now can't use it even if i wanted to.

Edited August 22, 2016 by Mudfrog

[+sparklefingers]

The only reason I pay for geocaching is for the notifications. So far I can get notifications for 20+ miles but nothing else this includes owners logs and general emails about what is going on. With the owners logs I don't get them all day and then all of a sudden 30 owner logs on all different caches from different caches come through all at onces... this can go for days too..

 

As one of the highest members of QA and support for my company I can say that if we had a bug like this and hadn't fixed it within a month we would of cost our customers millions and would be in serious trouble.

 

The email bug is because they've transferred to a new system. (from the other thread I have taken this info) Surely they have a Dev environment as well as a Prod? And all these areas should of been tested on Dev before being rolled out to Prod

 

As for the app. You as a customer will not be listened to it seems. If you're on IOS I suggest you look at the unofficial app for that. Title ends in ly. We all know about the android one.

[+Team DEMP]

As someone in IT for 32 years and responsible for high volume, customer facing, revenue generating platforms, I'm amazed when any of this crap works. I don't get upset when it fails - something is always failing. I'm just glad no one dies from systems I'm responsible for.

 

A little levity, but a little serious too. Without being the person responsible for the 200 things wrong today @ GC.com, I can't fault them for what is or isn't a priority for them to address, balancing customer experience, current revenue, future revenue, etc.

 

Anyway, cache on!

[+NLBokkie]

At least I see some more updates in individual forum topics now. That certainly helps. Thanks for that.

Edited August 24, 2016 by NLBokkie