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hag..and other geocaches


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Now I already know that their and there is probably messed up so sorry Nazi grammar people.

 

I was wondering why the hag caches are not taken away after the hag event is done they just seem to clutter up good areas and most of them I noticed aren't taken care of and are left as little tiny blood tubes in a forest.

 

I was also wondering why if a ? hasn't been found isn't it delete and why would you have question mark geocaches in a park when you could have a real geocache. Most of these ones haven't even been visited in my are in awhile and their geo clutter or the geocaches where the owners don't care about the cache. Why are these not taken away.

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Godwin's Law on first post. Might be a new record.

 

Forgive my ignorance, but what's a "hag" cache/Event?

 

they have an event called hide and go caches they hide them in parks and stuff like that and their supposed to be easy access theirs prizes for first one to find them all and other things like that but it only lasts a few weeks and than the event is done but the geoclutter hags are still out their for years to come

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Godwin's Law on first post. Might be a new record.

 

Forgive my ignorance, but what's a "hag" cache/Event?

 

they have an event called hide and go caches they hide them in parks and stuff like that and their supposed to be easy access theirs prizes for first one to find them all and other things like that but it only lasts a few weeks and than the event is done but the geoclutter hags are still out their for years to come

 

Please refer to the guideline on cache permanence. Placing caches for an event and removing them shortly afterwards is not permitted.

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Godwin's Law on first post. Might be a new record.

 

Forgive my ignorance, but what's a "hag" cache/Event?

 

they have an event called hide and go caches they hide them in parks and stuff like that and their supposed to be easy access theirs prizes for first one to find them all and other things like that but it only lasts a few weeks and than the event is done but the geoclutter hags are still out their for years to come

 

Please refer to the guideline on cache permanence. Placing caches for an event and removing them shortly afterwards is not permitted.

 

 

so we support geo clutter than I see I see that's why theres still geoclutter hag caches from two years ago still around...

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Since when is a puzzle/mystery not a real geocache?

 

since they stay their for years never being found since they clutter up a perfectly good park with their cache that hardly anyone can ever solve

 

The guidelines do not require cache owners to make caches easy to solve/find, nor do the guidelines require cache owners to remove caches on the basis of find frequency.

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Godwin's Law on first post. Might be a new record.

 

Forgive my ignorance, but what's a "hag" cache/Event?

 

they have an event called hide and go caches they hide them in parks and stuff like that and their supposed to be easy access theirs prizes for first one to find them all and other things like that but it only lasts a few weeks and than the event is done but the geoclutter hags are still out their for years to come

 

Please refer to the guideline on cache permanence. Placing caches for an event and removing them shortly afterwards is not permitted.

 

 

so we support geo clutter than I see I see that's why theres still geoclutter hag caches from two years ago still around...

 

If you find that a cache is poorly maintained, use the Needs Maintenance log to alert the cache owner. If you find that it goes a long time without maintenance despite the Needs Maintenance log, use the Needs Archived log to bring it to a reviewer's attention.

 

If the issue is that the cache isn't to your taste or ability, that's not a maintenance issue.

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Since when is a puzzle/mystery not a real geocache?

 

since they stay their for years never being found since they clutter up a perfectly good park with their cache that hardly anyone can ever solve

 

The guidelines do not require cache owners to make caches easy to solve/find, nor do the guidelines require cache owners to remove caches on the basis of find frequency.

 

i know the guidelines state that they the owner doesn't have to make the geocache easy to solve trust me cause the cache is supposed to be at the posted coordinates and half the " hard geocaches" were no where even near the coordinates. I guess in the end we will just end up with old hag and old geocaches that clutter.

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Godwin's Law on first post. Might be a new record.

 

Forgive my ignorance, but what's a "hag" cache/Event?

 

they have an event called hide and go caches they hide them in parks and stuff like that and their supposed to be easy access theirs prizes for first one to find them all and other things like that but it only lasts a few weeks and than the event is done but the geoclutter hags are still out their for years to come

 

Please refer to the guideline on cache permanence. Placing caches for an event and removing them shortly afterwards is not permitted.

 

 

so we support geo clutter than I see I see that's why theres still geoclutter hag caches from two years ago still around...

 

If you find that a cache is poorly maintained, use the Needs Maintenance log to alert the cache owner. If you find that it goes a long time without maintenance despite the Needs Maintenance log, use the Needs Archived log to bring it to a reviewer's attention.

 

If the issue is that the cache isn't to your taste or ability, that's not a maintenance issue.

 

haha yea ill get on that and ill take you to tons of geocaches that still look like garbage

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Since when is a puzzle/mystery not a real geocache?

 

since they stay their for years never being found since they clutter up a perfectly good park with their cache that hardly anyone can ever solve

That's not a reason to archive a cache. If it's in fact abandoned/unmaintained, there's a pretty good process in place.

 

I'd enjoy finding a tough puzzle cache that hasn't been found in a while and that hardly anyone solves, if by some miracle I could solve it. :anicute:

 

ill take you to tons of geocaches that still look like garbage

Place a cache that looks great and show us how it's done. I keep my caches well maintained, with the intention that finders are pleasantly surprised. Bad caches do go away (see the process above). Skip the garbage entirely, it's easy to decide which caches to try. You don't need to find them all. This isn't pockyman. :anibad:

Edited by kunarion
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Since when is a puzzle/mystery not a real geocache?

 

since they stay their for years never being found since they clutter up a perfectly good park with their cache that hardly anyone can ever solve

 

The guidelines do not require cache owners to make caches easy to solve/find, nor do the guidelines require cache owners to remove caches on the basis of find frequency.

 

i know the guidelines state that they the owner doesn't have to make the geocache easy to solve trust me cause the cache is supposed to be at the posted coordinates and half the " hard geocaches" were no where even near the coordinates. I guess in the end we will just end up with old hag and old geocaches that clutter.

 

The posted coordinates for a puzzle cache are virtual, so you are free to hide a physical cache near them. This is very clear in the guidelines.

 

If you feel that caches are not being maintained properly, I encourage you to use the Needs Maintenance log to report problems.

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Now I already know that their and there is probably messed up so sorry Nazi grammar people.

 

I was wondering why the hag caches are not taken away after the hag event is done they just seem to clutter up good areas and most of them I noticed aren't taken care of and are left as little tiny blood tubes in a forest.

 

I was also wondering why if a ? hasn't been found isn't it delete and why would you have question mark geocaches in a park when you could have a real geocache. Most of these ones haven't even been visited in my are in awhile and their geo clutter or the geocaches where the owners don't care about the cache. Why are these not taken away.

 

I guess this shall never be answered as why they are still their for years to come haha

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Now I already know that their and there is probably messed up so sorry Nazi grammar people.

 

I was wondering why the hag caches are not taken away after the hag event is done they just seem to clutter up good areas and most of them I noticed aren't taken care of and are left as little tiny blood tubes in a forest.

 

I was also wondering why if a ? hasn't been found isn't it delete and why would you have question mark geocaches in a park when you could have a real geocache. Most of these ones haven't even been visited in my are in awhile and their geo clutter or the geocaches where the owners don't care about the cache. Why are these not taken away.

 

I guess this shall never be answered as why they are still their for years to come haha

 

I encourage you to read the cache placement guidelines, particularly the section on cache permanence. A cache may be placed to coincide with an event, but it is still a geocache and must adhere to those guidelines. The fact that it has "HAG" in the name does not mean it needs to be removed after a short period of time. Caches are not meant to be temporary, even if you don't like them.

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I guess this shall never be answered as why they are still their for years to come haha

Tap-tap-tap. It this thing on?

 

The answer is: Without the appropriate logs, the caches may remain longer than you hope. There's a pretty good process in place. Use it.

 

And yeah, centrifuge vial caches may need almost constant attention. Those vials are designed to be opened & closed maybe... twice?... then discarded. So if was something like a penny glued to a vial pressed into the ground, and now it's just an empty plastic tube with no cap, get the ball rolling.

Edited by kunarion
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Since when is a puzzle/mystery not a real geocache?

 

since they stay their for years never being found since they clutter up a perfectly good park with their cache that hardly anyone can ever solve

 

The guidelines do not require cache owners to make caches easy to solve/find, nor do the guidelines require cache owners to remove caches on the basis of find frequency.

 

 

i know the guidelines state that they the owner doesn't have to make the geocache easy to solve trust me cause the cache is supposed to be at the posted coordinates and half the " hard geocaches" were no where even near the coordinates. I guess in the end we will just end up with old hag and old geocaches that clutter.

 

The posted coordinates for a puzzle cache are virtual, so you are free to hide a physical cache near them. This is very clear in the guidelines.

 

If you feel that caches are not being maintained properly, I encourage you to use the Needs Maintenance log to report problems.

ill get on that but they will still be there but thanks for the suggestion

 

its not a matter of them being properly maintained its called change the caches every few years or your going to get people that don't want to do this game anymore because the caches are the same every single time im in an area where i look at my map and see no really new geocaches just all old smiley faces and caches i wont bother going to because they are either just stupid or im not wasting my time finding a micro that's my choice of course but leaving event caches everywhere is just poor taste

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Since when is a puzzle/mystery not a real geocache?

 

since they stay their for years never being found since they clutter up a perfectly good park with their cache that hardly anyone can ever solve

 

The guidelines do not require cache owners to make caches easy to solve/find, nor do the guidelines require cache owners to remove caches on the basis of find frequency.

 

 

i know the guidelines state that they the owner doesn't have to make the geocache easy to solve trust me cause the cache is supposed to be at the posted coordinates and half the " hard geocaches" were no where even near the coordinates. I guess in the end we will just end up with old hag and old geocaches that clutter.

 

The posted coordinates for a puzzle cache are virtual, so you are free to hide a physical cache near them. This is very clear in the guidelines.

 

If you feel that caches are not being maintained properly, I encourage you to use the Needs Maintenance log to report problems.

ill get on that but they will still be there but thanks for the suggestion

 

its not a matter of them being properly maintained its called change the caches every few years or your going to get people that don't want to do this game anymore because the caches are the same every single time im in an area where i look at my map and see no really new geocaches just all old smiley faces and caches i wont bother going to because they are either just stupid or im not wasting my time finding a micro that's my choice of course but leaving event caches everywhere is just poor taste

 

Again, see the guideline on cache permanence. Cache owners are not required to archive caches to make room for new ones after any period of time. If you want to see new caches on the map, get out and find new places to hide them. Recycling the same old spots just so people can rack up more finds isn't really what this game is about.

 

See the guidelines here:

 

https://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx

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Now I already know that their and there is probably messed up so sorry Nazi grammar people.

 

I was wondering why the hag caches are not taken away after the hag event is done they just seem to clutter up good areas and most of them I noticed aren't taken care of and are left as little tiny blood tubes in a forest.

 

I was also wondering why if a ? hasn't been found isn't it delete and why would you have question mark geocaches in a park when you could have a real geocache. Most of these ones haven't even been visited in my are in awhile and their geo clutter or the geocaches where the owners don't care about the cache. Why are these not taken away.

 

I guess this shall never be answered as why they are still their for years to come haha

 

I encourage you to read the cache placement guidelines, particularly the section on cache permanence. A cache may be placed to coincide with an event, but it is still a geocache and must adhere to those guidelines. The fact that it has "HAG" in the name does not mean it needs to be removed after a short period of time. Caches are not meant to be temporary, even if you don't like them.

oh trust me with geocachers ive encouraged myself to read everything as ive noticed that they can become quite arrogant and self centered.

 

its an event cache get rid of it they shouldn't be allowed to still be their years later didn't know that hide and go 2012 was still going....

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Since when is a puzzle/mystery not a real geocache?

 

since they stay their for years never being found since they clutter up a perfectly good park with their cache that hardly anyone can ever solve

 

The guidelines do not require cache owners to make caches easy to solve/find, nor do the guidelines require cache owners to remove caches on the basis of find frequency.

 

 

i know the guidelines state that they the owner doesn't have to make the geocache easy to solve trust me cause the cache is supposed to be at the posted coordinates and half the " hard geocaches" were no where even near the coordinates. I guess in the end we will just end up with old hag and old geocaches that clutter.

 

The posted coordinates for a puzzle cache are virtual, so you are free to hide a physical cache near them. This is very clear in the guidelines.

 

If you feel that caches are not being maintained properly, I encourage you to use the Needs Maintenance log to report problems.

ill get on that but they will still be there but thanks for the suggestion

 

its not a matter of them being properly maintained its called change the caches every few years or your going to get people that don't want to do this game anymore because the caches are the same every single time im in an area where i look at my map and see no really new geocaches just all old smiley faces and caches i wont bother going to because they are either just stupid or im not wasting my time finding a micro that's my choice of course but leaving event caches everywhere is just poor taste

 

Again, see the guideline on cache permanence. Cache owners are not required to archive caches to make room for new ones after any period of time. If you want to see new caches on the map, get out and find new places to hide them. Recycling the same old spots just so people can rack up more finds isn't really what this game is about.

 

See the guidelines here:

 

https://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx

 

wow no imagination than you don't have. you take away a geocache from a spot its called you reinvent it maybe change the hint change the container change the purpose of it..but hey maybe im new on that one ill get right on finding new places to hide them with all those hags and garbage ones around and question mark caches always blocking good spots but hey i will get right on that thanks for the suggestion!

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Now I already know that their and there is probably messed up so sorry Nazi grammar people.

 

I was wondering why the hag caches are not taken away after the hag event is done they just seem to clutter up good areas and most of them I noticed aren't taken care of and are left as little tiny blood tubes in a forest.

 

I was also wondering why if a ? hasn't been found isn't it delete and why would you have question mark geocaches in a park when you could have a real geocache. Most of these ones haven't even been visited in my are in awhile and their geo clutter or the geocaches where the owners don't care about the cache. Why are these not taken away.

 

I guess this shall never be answered as why they are still their for years to come haha

 

I encourage you to read the cache placement guidelines, particularly the section on cache permanence. A cache may be placed to coincide with an event, but it is still a geocache and must adhere to those guidelines. The fact that it has "HAG" in the name does not mean it needs to be removed after a short period of time. Caches are not meant to be temporary, even if you don't like them.

oh trust me with geocachers ive encouraged myself to read everything as ive noticed that they can become quite arrogant and self centered.

 

its an event cache get rid of it they shouldn't be allowed to still be their years later didn't know that hide and go 2012 was still going....

 

Events are archived after two weeks, so no, that event isn't still going.

 

Caches hidden to coincide with events are treated like all other geocaches. The guidelines specifically prohibit temporary caches.

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its not a matter of them being properly maintained its called change the caches every few years or your going to get people that don't want to do this game anymore because the caches are the same every single time im in an area where i look at my map and see no really new geocaches just all old smiley faces and caches i wont bother going to because they are either just stupid or im not wasting my time finding a micro that's my choice of course but leaving event caches everywhere is just poor taste
De gustibus non est disputandum.

 

The guidelines don't address matters of "poor taste". And the volunteer reviewers don't enforce matters of "poor taste".

 

And that's a good thing.

 

One person wants caches to live forever. Another wants owners to churn their cache locations to provide ongoing opportunities for more smileys. You can't please everyone.

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its not a matter of them being properly maintained its called change the caches every few years or your going to get people that don't want to do this game anymore because the caches are the same every single time im in an area where i look at my map and see no really new geocaches just all old smiley faces and caches i wont bother going to because they are either just stupid or im not wasting my time finding a micro that's my choice of course but leaving event caches everywhere is just poor taste
De gustibus non est disputandum.

 

The guidelines don't address matters of "poor taste". And the volunteer reviewers don't enforce matters of "poor taste".

 

And that's a good thing.

 

One person wants caches to live forever. Another wants owners to churn their cache locations to provide ongoing opportunities for more smileys. You can't please everyone.

not for smileys for more adventures to maybe re visit a place and create new memories learn something new at that place that you didn't before ive seen places where new geocaches got put up and they were recycled and they had knowledge of the area and native artifacts and that wasn't their before so i learned something new by someone else taking over the spot and adding to the geocaching experience

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I found this website http://hagcaching.cachemania.ca/ for HAG.

 

 

 

Total Caches Hidden = 791

 

 

Caches by year

 

2015 = 642 caches hidden

 

2016 = 149 caches hidden

 

 

 

Hides by Size (since 2015)

 

Large: 4

 

Regular: 34

 

Small: 206

 

Micro: 417

 

Other: 130

 

 

They sure went wild in 2015. That can swallow up a large area leaving no room for others to hide. But such is geocaching when an event comes to town.

You should post NMs and NAs if these caches have issues with maintenance. Sorry to see your area get swamped.

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its not a matter of them being properly maintained its called change the caches every few years or your going to get people that don't want to do this game anymore because the caches are the same every single time im in an area where i look at my map and see no really new geocaches just all old smiley faces and caches i wont bother going to because they are either just stupid or im not wasting my time finding a micro that's my choice of course but leaving event caches everywhere is just poor taste
De gustibus non est disputandum.

 

The guidelines don't address matters of "poor taste". And the volunteer reviewers don't enforce matters of "poor taste".

 

And that's a good thing.

 

One person wants caches to live forever. Another wants owners to churn their cache locations to provide ongoing opportunities for more smileys. You can't please everyone.

not for smileys for more adventures to maybe re visit a place and create new memories learn something new at that place that you didn't before ive seen places where new geocaches got put up and they were recycled and they had knowledge of the area and native artifacts and that wasn't their before so i learned something new by someone else taking over the spot and adding to the geocaching experience

 

It's nice when a cache meets its natural end and something new and interesting takes its place. However, in this game we do not force people to archive caches to make space for new ones.

 

If you feel that a cache is neglected, report it.

Edited by narcissa
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Now I already know that their and there is probably messed up so sorry Nazi grammar people.

Actually, your usage of "there" in your forum thread's subtitle was grammatically correct; there is no need to apologize.

 

Of greater concern to me is the tragic loss of your commas, semicolons, etc. It would appear as though the secret grammar police have rounded them up and herded them like cattle into emails that are sent off to mysterious "Punctuation Camps" for the ostensible purpose of "re-education" -- after which they are supposed to be repatriated to your keyboard.

 

On-topic, the caches placed in my home area in connection with events tend to be of high quality. One hider in particular is fond of getting park ranger permission to saturate the entire network of hiking trails in a park. It took me two trips in May to find all the great caches from his 2015 event, because the hikes were so challenging. His next event, with dozens of new caches to be released, occurs tomorrow. This time, I'll be there on the day of the event to thank him. I'd hate to see these caches go away. There's a mix of puzzles, multi's and traditionals of all sizes.

 

Absent a maintenance issue, there is no easy way to distinguish between the hider I speak so highly of in the preceding paragraph, vs. a hider whose hiding style I don't enjoy.

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On-topic, the caches placed in my home area in connection with events tend to be of high quality. One hider in particular is fond of getting park ranger permission to saturate the entire network of hiking trails in a park. It took me two trips in May to find all the great caches from his 2015 event, because the hikes were so challenging. His next event, with dozens of new caches to be released, occurs tomorrow. This time, I'll be there on the day of the event to thank him. I'd hate to see these caches go away. There's a mix of puzzles, multi's and traditionals of all sizes.

 

Some of the most delightful hides in this area are those associated with the recurring "GAG" (Go and Get 'Em) events. Each event has a different theme, and some cachers really go all out to create fun and inventive caches. They're fun to find the day of the event, or any time after.

 

It would be really sad to see these owners forced to archive amazing caches just because someone objects to seeing "GAG" in the cache title.

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its not a matter of them being properly maintained its called change the caches every few years or your going to get people that don't want to do this game anymore because the caches are the same every single time im in an area where i look at my map and see no really new geocaches just all old smiley faces and caches i wont bother going to because they are either just stupid or im not wasting my time finding a micro that's my choice of course but leaving event caches everywhere is just poor taste

 

My eyes hurt just from trying to read that. Perhaps English is not your first language? I hope that's true. If not, I really don't know how to respond without sounding downright mean.

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On-topic, the caches placed in my home area in connection with events tend to be of high quality. One hider in particular is fond of getting park ranger permission to saturate the entire network of hiking trails in a park. It took me two trips in May to find all the great caches from his 2015 event, because the hikes were so challenging. His next event, with dozens of new caches to be released, occurs tomorrow. This time, I'll be there on the day of the event to thank him. I'd hate to see these caches go away. There's a mix of puzzles, multi's and traditionals of all sizes.

 

Some of the most delightful hides in this area are those associated with the recurring "GAG" (Go and Get 'Em) events. Each event has a different theme, and some cachers really go all out to create fun and inventive caches. They're fun to find the day of the event, or any time after.

 

It would be really sad to see these owners forced to archive amazing caches just because someone objects to seeing "GAG" in the cache title.

We've had similarly themed Events in my area as well, although it's been awhile. One Event Host would open up his garage full of tools and host a "Little Shop of Horrors.." workshop Event. Some pretty amazing creations came about as a result of those Events. Good times.

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We've had similarly themed Events in my area as well, although it's been awhile. One Event Host would open up his garage full of tools and host a "Little Shop of Horrors.." workshop Event. Some pretty amazing creations came about as a result of those Events. Good times.
Yeah, I've really enjoyed the LSOH events, and the LSOH caches, but they weren't really hidden "for the event" the way the GAG and HAG and other "event caches" are.

 

Personally, I think the real issue in this case is the carpet-bombing of an area, and it doesn't really matter whether carpet-bombing is done for an event or for a numbers run trail or for a series honoring names in a phone book. But Groundspeak stopped trying to fight that war years ago.

 

If I may paraphrase an old saying: The best thing about hiding geocaches is that anyone can do it, and the worst thing about hiding geocaches is that anyone can do it.

Edited by niraD
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I guess this shall never be answered as why they are still their for years to come haha

 

haha....yes it was.

 

Was not! Haha. :ph34r:

 

I'm trying to understand if the issue is physical (non-virtual) caches in poor physical condition (report them & a several-step archival process gets going, and it does work, sometimes faster than others) OR whether virtuals are believed to interfere with "real" (ie, physical) caches (which as explained is not the case).

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its not a matter of them being properly maintained its called change the caches every few years or your going to get people that don't want to do this game anymore because the caches are the same every single time im in an area where i look at my map and see no really new geocaches just all old smiley faces and caches i wont bother going to because they are either just stupid or im not wasting my time finding a micro that's my choice of course but leaving event caches everywhere is just poor taste

 

My eyes hurt just from trying to read that. Perhaps English is not your first language? I hope that's true. If not, I really don't know how to respond without sounding downright mean.

 

Okay, I'll translate. The objection is to never getting cache changeover, which bores cachers (unless they cache outside their neighborhood). The idea was floated in another thread that there should be mandatory changeover.

 

This is a product of Pokemon Go and Millenial-ism. It may be a result of "entitlement" (see other thread).

Edited by wmpastor
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Oh, goodness, Off Grid is back in the forum! Wondering which team member is posting this time?

 

The A-Team...calling The A-Team to the front desk, please.

 

B.

...if you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them... :laughing:

 

Okay, there needs to be some clarification brought to this discussion. Let's start with some history.

 

The annual Vancouver Island Hide-&-Go Cache event ("HAG" for short) started in 2005 and has happened every year since. It consists of cachers on Vancouver Island, BC, Canada hiding caches all over the island in February (this particular corner of Canada gets little snow in the winter except at higher elevations). There are various prizes which encourage creativity and diversity, so you get lots of interesting hides. Up until 2010, the caches could only be hidden on one day (later expanded to two). Each hider would rush out to place their cache(s), submit it, and everyone else would faithfully watch for the caches to be published. About a month later, the "Hide-and-Go-Cache Bash" is held at a local pub (the same pub since the second year) where the prizes are handed out, everyone chats about their adventures in finding the HAG caches, etc. Starting in 2011, caches could be hidden in advance and the reviewers would hold them after reviewing them, then publish them en masse on the necessary date. It's hard to describe that feeling of getting up early on a Saturday, watching your email with anticipation, and then seeing hundreds of "Published" emails roll in and having to decide where to go first. The reviewers have always been nice enough to put up with us and their efforts to accommodate the HAG have been greatly appreciated.

 

The HAG grew from only 49 caches in the first year to 425 in 2014. The original group that had been organizing the event stepped away after the 2014 event, and a new group stepped in and took it over. The stats from the first 10 years can be seen at VIGPS.com, and the stats from 2015/2016 can be seen at the new website. The 2015 event turned out to be just too massive for the poor reviewers (642 caches!), so they begged the organizers to scale things back for 2016. While there wasn't a hard limit, hiders were asked not to hide a ton of caches, and everyone seemed to get on board because there was a much more reasonable 149 caches hidden in 2016. Through the years, the caches had started to be focused more on quantity over quality (though there were still tons of creative caches), but in 2016 the caches were very much focused on quality and creativity.

 

Now, the matter of permanence. The caches were never intended to be hidden just for this event. They're hidden during this event, but have always been intended to be long-term caches as per the guidelines. You can still go out and find caches from the early years, including some from the first year. However, some regions are getting fairly saturated and new hiding spots are getting hard to come by, so 2016 saw a number of older caches archived and replaced with new HAG caches (Off Grid would likely be happy to hear this).

 

In the earlier years, Micro-sized containers weren't allowed unless they were "ingeniously disguised in high traffic urban areas". This restriction was lifted in more recent years and you can now see a number of Micros hidden for the HAG, but I can't recall ever seeing any sample tubes hidden as HAG caches. Usually the Micros are things like Bison tubes or preforms. As for puzzles that haven't been found as stated in the OP, I honestly can't figure out what Off Grid is referring to. I can only identify one HAG cache that hasn't yet been logged as found by anyone, and it's a 5/5 Traditional at the top of a mountain.

 

The HAG has evolved somewhat over the last 12 years, but the root of it still remains the same: it's an event where Vancouver Island cachers come together to hide lots of great caches that will entertain cachers for years to come. I don't see any reason to change that.

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Oh, goodness, Off Grid is back in the forum! Wondering which team member is posting this time?

 

The A-Team...calling The A-Team to the front desk, please.

 

B.

...if you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them... :laughing:

 

Okay, there needs to be some clarification brought to this discussion. Let's start with some history.

 

The annual Vancouver Island Hide-&-Go Cache event ("HAG" for short) started in 2005 and has happened every year since. It consists of cachers on Vancouver Island, BC, Canada hiding caches all over the island in February (this particular corner of Canada gets little snow in the winter except at higher elevations). There are various prizes which encourage creativity and diversity, so you get lots of interesting hides. Up until 2010, the caches could only be hidden on one day (later expanded to two). Each hider would rush out to place their cache(s), submit it, and everyone else would faithfully watch for the caches to be published. About a month later, the "Hide-and-Go-Cache Bash" is held at a local pub (the same pub since the second year) where the prizes are handed out, everyone chats about their adventures in finding the HAG caches, etc. Starting in 2011, caches could be hidden in advance and the reviewers would hold them after reviewing them, then publish them en masse on the necessary date. It's hard to describe that feeling of getting up early on a Saturday, watching your email with anticipation, and then seeing hundreds of "Published" emails roll in and having to decide where to go first. The reviewers have always been nice enough to put up with us and their efforts to accommodate the HAG have been greatly appreciated.

 

The HAG grew from only 49 caches in the first year to 425 in 2014. The original group that had been organizing the event stepped away after the 2014 event, and a new group stepped in and took it over. The stats from the first 10 years can be seen at VIGPS.com, and the stats from 2015/2016 can be seen at the new website. The 2015 event turned out to be just too massive for the poor reviewers (642 caches!), so they begged the organizers to scale things back for 2016. While there wasn't a hard limit, hiders were asked not to hide a ton of caches, and everyone seemed to get on board because there was a much more reasonable 149 caches hidden in 2016. Through the years, the caches had started to be focused more on quantity over quality (though there were still tons of creative caches), but in 2016 the caches were very much focused on quality and creativity.

 

Now, the matter of permanence. The caches were never intended to be hidden just for this event. They're hidden during this event, but have always been intended to be long-term caches as per the guidelines. You can still go out and find caches from the early years, including some from the first year. However, some regions are getting fairly saturated and new hiding spots are getting hard to come by, so 2016 saw a number of older caches archived and replaced with new HAG caches (Off Grid would likely be happy to hear this).

 

In the earlier years, Micro-sized containers weren't allowed unless they were "ingeniously disguised in high traffic urban areas". This restriction was lifted in more recent years and you can now see a number of Micros hidden for the HAG, but I can't recall ever seeing any sample tubes hidden as HAG caches. Usually the Micros are things like Bison tubes or preforms. As for puzzles that haven't been found as stated in the OP, I honestly can't figure out what Off Grid is referring to. I can only identify one HAG cache that hasn't yet been logged as found by anyone, and it's a 5/5 Traditional at the top of a mountain.

 

The HAG has evolved somewhat over the last 12 years, but the root of it still remains the same: it's an event where Vancouver Island cachers come together to hide lots of great caches that will entertain cachers for years to come. I don't see any reason to change that.

 

I like the emphasis on quality over quantity but from what you write, that's been an ebb and flow thing and waning over the years, due to pressure from hiders. Sorry to hear they lifted the micro limit. It might have been more exciting to challenge people to create interesting caches that include a quality swag size container with a volume of at least 100ml in size (palm size). And to limit the number of hides to one or two per account.

 

Saturation isn't always a good thing, even with good intentions.

 

My biggest concern, if such a thing happened in my city is that I wouldn't be able to find a place to hide a cache, unless I was part of the HAG clique.

Edited by L0ne.R
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Off topic a bit but,,

 

In the earlier years, Micro-sized containers weren't allowed unless they were "ingeniously disguised in high traffic urban areas". This restriction was lifted in more recent years and you can now see a number of Micros hidden for the HAG

 

There's your mistake! :blink:

 

It's easy to realize that quality would go down with a change like this. Why the change?

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Off topic a bit but,,

 

In the earlier years, Micro-sized containers weren't allowed unless they were "ingeniously disguised in high traffic urban areas". This restriction was lifted in more recent years and you can now see a number of Micros hidden for the HAG

 

There's your mistake! :blink:

 

It's easy to realize that quality would go down with a change like this. Why the change?

I totally agree with you that this was a bad move, and I'm not alone. I'm not quite sure why that restriction was lifted. I suspect it was a combination of pressure from a handful of cachers and the desire by some of the organizers to do the same. Other than these individuals, the hiding of Micros for the HAG has been pretty limited. With the reduction in the total number of caches hidden in 2016, the pendulum has definitely swung back in the quality direction, which bodes well for future HAGs.

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Now I already know that their and there is probably messed up so sorry Nazi grammar people.

 

I was also wondering why if a ? hasn't been found isn't it delete and why would you have question mark geocaches in a park when you could have a real geocache. Most of these ones haven't even been visited in my are in awhile and their geo clutter or the geocaches where the owners don't care about the cache. Why are these not taken away.

In my experience many of the grammar Nazis and others with IQs on the right side of the bell curve can solve them.

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