+TrailJoy Posted August 11, 2016 Share Posted August 11, 2016 EIGHT WEEKS, I've been working on a puzzle (that has yet to be solved). Is there a group here, or somewhere else where people can go to bounce ideas and get general help in solving these nightmares? lol Quote Link to comment
+narcissa Posted August 11, 2016 Share Posted August 11, 2016 Have you tried asking the cache owner for a hint? Quote Link to comment
+TrailJoy Posted August 11, 2016 Author Share Posted August 11, 2016 Of course! The difficulty level was raised. Like that helps me at all. LOL It's a colour puzzle. A coloured mandala. There's a pattern that will give me the coords, but I've found probably close to 5O at this point. Obviously the patterns I'm finding are wrong... Quote Link to comment
+niraD Posted August 12, 2016 Share Posted August 12, 2016 Do you know any local puzzlers well enough to have their email addresses or phone numbers? I know a number of local puzzlers who sometimes get together (either in person, or virtually) to work on puzzles, but they get together with people that they know in real life. Quote Link to comment
+TrailJoy Posted August 12, 2016 Author Share Posted August 12, 2016 Yes, we just had our annual puzzle event. Everyone else is in the same boat as me. haha I thought I'd get lucky and there would be a group online somewhere for puzzlers. This one is killing me. I've sat and stared at it for 7 hours today ALONE. Frustration. haha Thanks, all. Quote Link to comment
+Blue_Ranger Posted August 12, 2016 Share Posted August 12, 2016 There's also Geocaching Puzzle Help, a Facebook group. Good bunch of folks, just a few rules: FTF has to have been logged already, and they don't just give you the answer. They will give you prods in the right direction until you get the idea. Quote Link to comment
+dprovan Posted August 12, 2016 Share Posted August 12, 2016 What makes you think it's solvable? After 8 weeks with no one solving it, I'd assume the only way anyone's going to find the cache is if the CO whispers the coordinates in their ear. Quote Link to comment
+NYPaddleCacher Posted August 12, 2016 Share Posted August 12, 2016 What makes you think it's solvable? After 8 weeks with no one solving it, I'd assume the only way anyone's going to find the cache is if the CO whispers the coordinates in their ear. Some puzzles are just hard. There's one that I solved that took over 3 months and it wasn't one of those "guess what I'm thinking puzzles where one could stare at it for weeks without guessing how the CO created it. This one had multiple levels, clues everywhere, red herrings and followed a theme from beginning to end. The first person to solve it did 8 months after it was published. I got about half way through it before I teamed up with someone else that was working on it. Getting hints from the CO, assuming the CO wants to give hints (if it's a 5 star D puzzle it's *supposed* to be hard) is the first step. After that, teaming up with someone else that has not yet solved it is a fun way to solve a puzzle cache. Posting a note on the cache pages asking if anyone else is working on it might be an easy way to find someone else that is working on it. You don't need a PAF network to do that. Quote Link to comment
+narcissa Posted August 12, 2016 Share Posted August 12, 2016 Eight weeks is nothing. A really challenging puzzle may take months or years before it's cracked. The best thing about geocaching is the variety of caches. Keep plugging away at it but take a break if you are frustrated. It will feel really great when you finally break through. Quote Link to comment
+TrailJoy Posted August 12, 2016 Author Share Posted August 12, 2016 What makes you think it's solvable? After 8 weeks with no one solving it, I'd assume the only way anyone's going to find the cache is if the CO whispers the coordinates in their ear. RIGHT?? According to the creator, the only hint she can think of is a dead giveaway to the solution. We're supposed to be able to look at the picture and SEE the solution. No special tools or research/knowledge required. All I see are colours. This board doesn't appear to have a "bang head on wall". Ironic considering the nature of this forum. I love this game, but not finding it, or in this case not solving the puzzle to get the coords, can be the most frustrating thing ever. Quote Link to comment
+TrailJoy Posted August 12, 2016 Author Share Posted August 12, 2016 Getting hints from the CO, assuming the CO wants to give hints (if it's a 5 star D puzzle it's *supposed* to be hard) is the first step. After that, teaming up with someone else that has not yet solved it is a fun way to solve a puzzle cache. Posting a note on the cache pages asking if anyone else is working on it might be an easy way to find someone else that is working on it. You don't need a PAF network to do that. Her original rating I think was 2.5 At the event, and many theories later, she said "How smart do you people think I am?!" The answer is staring us in the face. Literally. It's a 4.5 now. lol Quote Link to comment
+niraD Posted August 12, 2016 Share Posted August 12, 2016 Her original rating I think was 2.5 At the event, and many theories later, she said "How smart do you people think I am?!" The answer is staring us in the face. Literally. It's a 4.5 now. lol Yeah, there's a cache owner around here who has developed a reputation for trying to list easy puzzles, but listing puzzles that are actually rather difficult instead. And he ends up raising the difficulty rating in response to feedback from others. One of my FTFs is one of his puzzles, and I've found a few others. In general, they aren't hard once you figure out the correct technique, which will have been staring you in the face the entire time. Sometimes there's a lot of misdirection (a mental needle-in-a-haystack puzzle). Usually it's just a weird puzzle that is unlike anything else you've seen before. Quote Link to comment
+NYPaddleCacher Posted August 12, 2016 Share Posted August 12, 2016 Getting hints from the CO, assuming the CO wants to give hints (if it's a 5 star D puzzle it's *supposed* to be hard) is the first step. After that, teaming up with someone else that has not yet solved it is a fun way to solve a puzzle cache. Posting a note on the cache pages asking if anyone else is working on it might be an easy way to find someone else that is working on it. You don't need a PAF network to do that. Her original rating I think was 2.5 At the event, and many theories later, she said "How smart do you people think I am?!" The answer is staring us in the face. Literally. It's a 4.5 now. lol I found the puzzle you're talking about. I could see how it could be a "guess what I'm thinking" puzzle and since the CO created it (her first) she probably rated it easy (because, she could see the pattern she created, it appears easy). It's the kind of puzzle that someone could spend hours, day, or weeks looking at but never "see" the puzzle. Someone else might see it within minutes. Those kind of puzzles are difficult to rate and hard to provide a hint without giving the whole thing away. However, she may not be using her imagination well enough to come with a vague hint. A few years ago I did a puzzle where the CO would answer yes/no questions and post the answer on the logs until someone (actually, me and someone I was working with) solved it. For example, Does the pattern start in the middle of the image? or Is that vertical line on the right side of the image signifiant? Doing the puzzle that way was a lot of fun. If I recall, it had a 4.5 difficulty rating also and took 2-3 weeks to finally figure it out (even with the questions/answers). Quote Link to comment
+TrailJoy Posted August 12, 2016 Author Share Posted August 12, 2016 (edited) I found the puzzle you're talking about. I could see how it could be a "guess what I'm thinking" puzzle and since the CO created it (her first) she probably rated it easy (because, she could see the pattern she created, it appears easy). It's the kind of puzzle that someone could spend hours, day, or weeks looking at but never "see" the puzzle. Someone else might see it within minutes. Those kind of puzzles are difficult to rate and hard to provide a hint without giving the whole thing away. However, she may not be using her imagination well enough to come with a vague hint. A few years ago I did a puzzle where the CO would answer yes/no questions and post the answer on the logs until someone (actually, me and someone I was working with) solved it. For example, Does the pattern start in the middle of the image? or Is that vertical line on the right side of the image signifiant? Doing the puzzle that way was a lot of fun. If I recall, it had a 4.5 difficulty rating also and took 2-3 weeks to finally figure it out (even with the questions/answers). The vertical line is from the copy machine. There are two repeating patterns, which give me a TON of coords, none of which are right - which leads me to believe that's not the solution to the puzzle. I did ask about math and she said "maaaaaybe on a kindergarten level", so there shouldn't be a ton of decoding to do either. If ONLY she'd play 2O questions... Thanks for taking the time to find the puzzle in question. I don't really want to say too much here as I don't know who is reading this thread. Edit: If you, or anyone else, has any interest at all in helping me solve it, send me a message. PS. I'm curious how you found the puzzle! Edited August 12, 2016 by TrailJoy Quote Link to comment
+TrailJoy Posted August 13, 2016 Author Share Posted August 13, 2016 There's also Geocaching Puzzle Help, a Facebook group. Good bunch of folks, just a few rules: FTF has to have been logged already, and they don't just give you the answer. They will give you prods in the right direction until you get the idea. Thanks! I missed this the first time 'round. I've requested a join. Quote Link to comment
+rjb43nh Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 My latest puzzle took about 2 months for a find in an area with a lot of cachers who are really into puzzles. The first logger did mention the puzzle was easy once he 'saw' it. I thought it would be found sooner with an LED headlamp as a FTF prize. Sometimes you can stare at a puzzle forever then all of a sudden you slap your forehead because for some reason you look at it differently and get it. Quote Link to comment
+NYPaddleCacher Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 I found the puzzle you're talking about. I could see how it could be a "guess what I'm thinking" puzzle and since the CO created it (her first) she probably rated it easy (because, she could see the pattern she created, it appears easy). It's the kind of puzzle that someone could spend hours, day, or weeks looking at but never "see" the puzzle. Someone else might see it within minutes. Those kind of puzzles are difficult to rate and hard to provide a hint without giving the whole thing away. However, she may not be using her imagination well enough to come with a vague hint. A few years ago I did a puzzle where the CO would answer yes/no questions and post the answer on the logs until someone (actually, me and someone I was working with) solved it. For example, Does the pattern start in the middle of the image? or Is that vertical line on the right side of the image signifiant? Doing the puzzle that way was a lot of fun. If I recall, it had a 4.5 difficulty rating also and took 2-3 weeks to finally figure it out (even with the questions/answers). The vertical line is from the copy machine. There are two repeating patterns, which give me a TON of coords, none of which are right - which leads me to believe that's not the solution to the puzzle. I did ask about math and she said "maaaaaybe on a kindergarten level", so there shouldn't be a ton of decoding to do either. If ONLY she'd play 2O questions... Thanks for taking the time to find the puzzle in question. I don't really want to say too much here as I don't know who is reading this thread. Edit: If you, or anyone else, has any interest at all in helping me solve it, send me a message. PS. I'm curious how you found the puzzle! The answer about math would imply to me that there is some counting involved and possibly some simple arithmetic. I noticed that the puzzle is now being discussed on the Geocaching Puzzle Help facebook group and someone even post a screenshot of the coordinate checker (and blacked out the coordinates) showing a successful solve. I just looked at your profile and checked the location of a recent find. Then I did a search using the nearby city name, set a filter to just show puzzle caches, then sorted by difficulty rating. There was only one with a 4.5 rating. Quote Link to comment
+TrailJoy Posted August 13, 2016 Author Share Posted August 13, 2016 (edited) I posed on that fb group last night. Someone in the UK saw it, and solved it within hours. HEEELLLPPPP!!! (lol) Sorry. I posted before I read the last comment. Man. Soooooo frustrating. It's that dangling carrot I can't quite reach. LOL Edited August 13, 2016 by TrailJoy Quote Link to comment
+The Rat Posted August 14, 2016 Share Posted August 14, 2016 I feel your pain. It IS frustrating to watch others solve that puzzle you've been working on for days (or weeks or months) but it's all part of geocaching. Even with regular caches, I've DNFed them six or seven times in a row while dozens of others find them and log that it was an easy find and there are no other DNFs. Grrr. But the best way to deal with it in my experience is not to obsess over that puzzle. Just forget about it for now and come back to it later, after there have been a few logs or the page has been edited to include a hint or you hear something at an event that gives you an idea. Sometimes there are sort of copycat hides that follow that give you an idea on the original. Quote Link to comment
+redsox_mark Posted August 14, 2016 Share Posted August 14, 2016 I posed on that fb group last night. Someone in the UK saw it, and solved it within hours. HEEELLLPPPP!!! (lol) Sorry. I posted before I read the last comment. Man. Soooooo frustrating. It's that dangling carrot I can't quite reach. LOL I saw that. Don't feel bad, I'm convinced he's not human. He can solve anything. Quote Link to comment
+TrailJoy Posted August 14, 2016 Author Share Posted August 14, 2016 I saw that. Don't feel bad, I'm convinced he's not human. He can solve anything. You're not kidding. I've been trying to pick his brain (mostly for clues as to what I'm doing WRONG, as opposed to hints towards the solution), and I sent him some other puzzles (because he seems to enjoy solbing them - i had already solbed them). One that took me the better part of half a year, he solved in about 90 seconds.And another (that I haven't solved) in about 2 seconds. He even all but told me the answer, and I STILL can't figure it out. 😂 Quote Link to comment
+TrailJoy Posted August 14, 2016 Author Share Posted August 14, 2016 Oh and for the record, this one took him "well under ten minutes". lol Quote Link to comment
+J Grouchy Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 Eight weeks is nothing. A really challenging puzzle may take months or years before it's cracked. The best thing about geocaching is the variety of caches. Keep plugging away at it but take a break if you are frustrated. It will feel really great when you finally break through. I have one unsolved puzzle I put out in February that has a lot of watchers and I'm honestly surprised that it hasn't been figured out yet. It's eminently solvable...with clear steps that only lead to one solution, but I'm hearing that it's frustrating lots of folks out there. Another one I put out almost two years ago was solved once. The guy who solved it picked up on the solution very quickly and got the answer on his first try, so I'm confident it's not something that's "fuzzy" or open to any interpretation. He didn't find the cache, though...so it also is unfound. Eight weeks unsolved doesn't mean "unsolvable" and it's kind of ludicrous to claim it is. It's sort of like claiming a cache isn't there just 'cause you can't find it. Quote Link to comment
+TrailJoy Posted August 15, 2016 Author Share Posted August 15, 2016 Eight weeks is nothing. A really challenging puzzle may take months or years before it's cracked. The best thing about geocaching is the variety of caches. Keep plugging away at it but take a break if you are frustrated. It will feel really great when you finally break through. I have one unsolved puzzle I put out in February that has a lot of watchers and I'm honestly surprised that it hasn't been figured out yet. It's eminently solvable...with clear steps that only lead to one solution, but I'm hearing that it's frustrating lots of folks out there. Another one I put out almost two years ago was solved once. The guy who solved it picked up on the solution very quickly and got the answer on his first try, so I'm confident it's not something that's "fuzzy" or open to any interpretation. He didn't find the cache, though...so it also is unfound. Eight weeks unsolved doesn't mean "unsolvable" and it's kind of ludicrous to claim it is. It's sort of like claiming a cache isn't there just 'cause you can't find it. I bet it was the same guy who solved yours as the one who solved mine. As mentioned above, I don't think he's human. lol Send me a message if you want to take a stab at mine... And I'm curious about yours! Would you mind sending me a GC code? Quote Link to comment
+TrailJoy Posted August 17, 2016 Author Share Posted August 17, 2016 I SOLVED THE PUZZLE!!! There's also Geocaching Puzzle Help, a Facebook group. Good bunch of folks, just a few rules: FTF has to have been logged already, and they don't just give you the answer. They will give you prods in the right direction until you get the idea. THANK YOU FOR THIS!! This is exactly the type of support group, I mean help ( ) I was looking for. While I didn't get any direct hints, I was to told that my methods were far more complicated than the solution required. The CO has also told me that the solution is "simple", and that I am GREATLY overthinking it. It was support and the gentle pushes away from getting stuck on the wrong solution, that guided me to the right one. Quote Link to comment
+The Rat Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 I SOLVED THE PUZZLE!!! There's also Geocaching Puzzle Help, a Facebook group. Good bunch of folks, just a few rules: FTF has to have been logged already, and they don't just give you the answer. They will give you prods in the right direction until you get the idea. THANK YOU FOR THIS!! This is exactly the type of support group, I mean help ( ) I was looking for. While I didn't get any direct hints, I was to told that my methods were far more complicated than the solution required. The CO has also told me that the solution is "simple", and that I am GREATLY overthinking it. It was support and the gentle pushes away from getting stuck on the wrong solution, that guided me to the right one. Congratulations on the solve! Personally, that "hint" that I'm overthinking it drives me up the wall. Obviously I'm not overthinking, I'm underthinking it. I'm thinking of methods that don't work. I need yet one more method that DOES work. To me it's just the same as saying "you aren't solving it right." I know that already. If I was solving it right I would have solved it by now. Saying that the methods I am using aren't going to solve it, or are too complicated, is somewhat useful in that it at least stops you from wasting time in a blind alley, and it sounds like that's what did it for you. Quote Link to comment
+TrailJoy Posted August 19, 2016 Author Share Posted August 19, 2016 Congratulations on the solve! Personally, that "hint" that I'm overthinking it drives me up the wall. Obviously I'm not overthinking, I'm underthinking it. I'm thinking of methods that don't work. I need yet one more method that DOES work. To me it's just the same as saying "you aren't solving it right." I know that already. If I was solving it right I would have solved it by now. Saying that the methods I am using aren't going to solve it, or are too complicated, is somewhat useful in that it at least stops you from wasting time in a blind alley, and it sounds like that's what did it for you. In this case, the hint was a dead giveaway to the solution. It's more a matter of "the people aren't listening" than it is overthinking. The hint is VERY, literal. And it has been stated over and over again - even by the CO. But us humans aren't so great in the listening department sometimes, it seems. Quote Link to comment
+niraD Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 Personally, that "hint" that I'm overthinking it drives me up the wall. Obviously I'm not overthinking, I'm underthinking it. I'm thinking of methods that don't work.I am reminded of a type of party game, where the goal is to figure out the rules to the game so you can play correctly when it's your turn. Examples include "Crossed or Uncrossed", "Aunt Emma", and "This Is the Way We Draw the Moon". A friend and I often call these types of games "stupid games", because when people figure out the secret rule, they often respond by saying something like "That's stupid!" That's because the secret rule is always something fairly simple, so the person who is leading the game can easily determine whether someone has played their turn correctly. But while trying to figure out the secret rule, players almost always come up with rules that are MUCH more complex than the actual rule. So when they finally figure out the secret rule, it seems simplistic (and even stupid) in comparison to the incorrect rules they were imagining. Anyway, when I hear the comment about "overthinking" something, that's what I think of. Quote Link to comment
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