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Neglected Caches


KLH631
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I'm not sure if it's just a problem in my area or if it's across the board, but we have come across a lot of caches lately that have been neglected for quite sometime and the CO is either inactive or just lazy. There is one in particular that was placed in a stream that's constantly wet because the container isn't water proof and someone is always replacing a log. So, it keeps getting moved according to the logs. I messaged the CO and said we'd gladly take over care of the cache with no response. Why bother putting something out and then not maintain it? It's not everyone else's job to maintain it for you. Just venting!

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A search would show this has been an issue for a couple years now, most areas, and other than doing what we're supposed to do, placing NM, or NAs to caches with many NMs, does this get "fixed".

- Of course after archived, if the CO's inactive, that cache is now litter.

 

Someone replacing the log (if not short-term for an active CO) is merely keeping it alive for a brief time longer - many times it's at least until they get their smiley...

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I'm not sure if it's just a problem in my area or if it's across the board, but we have come across a lot of caches lately that have been neglected for quite sometime and the CO is either inactive or just lazy. There is one in particular that was placed in a stream that's constantly wet because the container isn't water proof and someone is always replacing a log. So, it keeps getting moved according to the logs. I messaged the CO and said we'd gladly take over care of the cache with no response. Why bother putting something out and then not maintain it? It's not everyone else's job to maintain it for you. Just venting!

 

It's a problem in a lot of places. You can help clean up the database by posting NAs on the caches you find are in need of repair or missing with no response from the cache owner to DNFs, and NMs. The usual process is to post an Needs Maintenance outlining the problem, then wait a few weeks for the cache owner to respond. If there is no response, post the NA outlining the problem again. This gets the attention of the reviewer who will have a closer look at the cache and disable it. After about a month the reviewer will archive the cache if there continues to be no response from the cache owner.

 

As a person on a budget with limited time for geocaching and occasionally with an opportunity to travel, I really appreciate a community that helps keep the cache owners doing what they signed up to do - maintain their caches. I don't appreciate not finding caches, or finding moldy junk. I especially hate it while spending a lot money and precious time while on vacation. In fact, I'm hoping to go to Massachusetts in the spring or summer next year. :)

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I'm not sure if it's just a problem in my area or if it's across the board, but we have come across a lot of caches lately that have been neglected for quite sometime and the CO is either inactive or just lazy. There is one in particular that was placed in a stream that's constantly wet because the container isn't water proof and someone is always replacing a log. So, it keeps getting moved according to the logs. I messaged the CO and said we'd gladly take over care of the cache with no response. Why bother putting something out and then not maintain it? It's not everyone else's job to maintain it for you. Just venting!

No it's not just a problem in your area. It happens everywhere. I'm not exactly clear when you say "in a stream". Is this cache somehow tethered in a moving stream? Is this an intermittent stream like we have here in Arizona? Most of our "streams" or rivers are nothing but dry gulches for 360 days out of any given year that only periodically flow during a heavy monsoon (flash flood!). Nearly all CO's down this way know this and avoid placement in a gulch because it's not a matter of if, it's only a matter of when the cache will get washed away.

Anywho... I for one would love to see the particulars of that cache submission form for a cache in an active flowing river. Just to satisfy my own curiosity.

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I'm not sure if it's just a problem in my area or if it's across the board, but we have come across a lot of caches lately that have been neglected for quite sometime and the CO is either inactive or just lazy. There is one in particular that was placed in a stream that's constantly wet because the container isn't water proof and someone is always replacing a log. So, it keeps getting moved according to the logs. I messaged the CO and said we'd gladly take over care of the cache with no response. Why bother putting something out and then not maintain it? It's not everyone else's job to maintain it for you. Just venting!

 

It's a problem in a lot of places. You can help clean up the database by posting NAs on the caches you find are in need of repair or missing with no response from the cache owner to DNFs, and NMs. The usual process is to post an Needs Maintenance outlining the problem, then wait a few weeks for the cache owner to respond. If there is no response, post the NA outlining the problem again. This gets the attention of the reviewer who will have a closer look at the cache and disable it. After about a month the reviewer will archive the cache if there continues to be no response from the cache owner.

 

As a person on a budget with limited time for geocaching and occasionally with an opportunity to travel, I really appreciate a community that helps keep the cache owners doing what they signed up to do - maintain their caches. I don't appreciate not finding caches, or finding moldy junk. I especially hate it while spending a lot money and precious time while on vacation. In fact, I'm hoping to go to Massachusetts in the spring or summer next year. :)

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Forgive me because I'm newer to Geocaching, but what is an "NA" and how do I post that? I wouldn't mind helping to clean up some of the caches in the area! Like you said, it's a bummer to come across one that's wet/moldy and has clearly been neglected.

The actual name of this cache is "Quabbin Cache n Gully", it's literally in a runoff stream. I don't know why anyone would put one there. Most of the comments are about it being filled with water and mud, so some have taken to moving it because it's such a horrible location for it, but this makes it more difficult for cachers to find because no one really updates the new coordinates. I think it just needs to go personally LoL

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On the website when you log your find you are given several choices, one is Needs Archived (NA).

 

0b5c8124-bddd-4bf4-a4b8-7fb6d2cf4fe0.png

 

Use Needs Maintenance (NM) first, if there are no other unanswered NMs already posted. This will alert the cache owner, some owners don't read the information in found logs, an NM will be more of an an alert and give them a chance to correct the problem.

 

A month after my NM I will generally post an NA if the cache owner doesn't respond. If there are already NMs posted I often post the NA right away, I don't add another NM since they have not responded to other NMs.

 

I usually preface my log with "Needs Attention". This seems to be less of an irritant to some COs who are delinquent, but active and sensitive. Then I will outline what is wrong with the cache.

 

Example:

 

Needs attention.

The CO hasn't logged in since June 2014.

Last found in July 2014.

Someone threw down a cache in April 2015.

The throwdown went missing around the summer of 2015.

3 DNFs in a row and no response to last month's NM, no finds since June 2015.

Recommending a disable.

Edited by L0ne.R
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I usually preface my log with "Needs Attention". This seems to be less of an irritant to some COs who are delinquent, but active and sensitive. Then I will outline what is wrong with the cache.

 

I think it is important to note that L0ne.r appears to consider trying to get caches archived a full-time job, submitting nearly as many Needs Archived logs in a year as I find caches.

 

It's also important to know that L0ne.r has hidden zero caches of his/her own.

 

As a result, I would not take the advice given very seriously.

 

That being said, a polite Needs Maintenance log, when appropriate, is a very good thing. Just don't get all obsessive over them.

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I usually preface my log with "Needs Attention". This seems to be less of an irritant to some COs who are delinquent, but active and sensitive. Then I will outline what is wrong with the cache.

 

I think it is important to note that L0ne.r appears to consider trying to get caches archived a full-time job, submitting nearly as many Needs Archived logs in a year as I find caches.

 

It's also important to know that L0ne.r has hidden zero caches of his/her own.

 

As a result, I would not take the advice given very seriously.

 

That being said, a polite Needs Maintenance log, when appropriate, is a very good thing. Just don't get all obsessive over them.

 

I never take advice from anyone that tries to point out that others are wrong in attempt to make themselves look right. :(

 

Post NM's and NA's accordingly, you just won't be as popular as the people that "fix" caches with throwdowns for ownerless listings. :blink:

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We actually have a reviewer that deals with this sort of thing on a regular basis...and gets an incredible amount of flak for it on social media and at events. Sorry about that 13 year old cache that fills a spot on someone's grid but is never maintained...but the experience can quickly be spoiled by finding an old cache that is nothing but a sopping, moldy mess inside.

 

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

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We actually have a reviewer that deals with this sort of thing on a regular basis...and gets an incredible amount of flak for it on social media and at events. Sorry about that 13 year old cache that fills a spot on someone's grid but is never maintained...but the experience can quickly be spoiled by finding an old cache that is nothing but a sopping, moldy mess inside.

 

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

 

I like the reviewer's note, especially:

 

Geocaching is more fun when caches are available and up to the standard.

 

Geocache Owner Responsibilities.

What to do after publication.

Choosing appropriate geocaching containers.

Maintenance doesn't have to be a pain

 

 

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Post NM's and NA's accordingly, you just won't be as popular as the people that "fix" caches with throwdowns for ownerless listings. :blink:

That's not my experience. Helpful and accurate NMs are appreciated by most COs in my area. And NAs are rarely posted on caches where the CO is paying attention, so the COs don't care, but other seekers appreciate NAs both because they signal a cache not worth seeking and because they help get bad caches off the map.

 

We actually have a reviewer that deals with this sort of thing on a regular basis...and gets an incredible amount of flak for it on social media and at events.

This is why I don't want reviewers to squander their neutral status by being the ones responsible for scanning for bad caches and unilaterally archiving them. Let a seekers act as prosecutor and jury, and leave the reviewers to act only as impartial judges.

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Post NM's and NA's accordingly, you just won't be as popular as the people that "fix" caches with throwdowns for ownerless listings. :blink:

That's not my experience. Helpful and accurate NMs are appreciated by most COs in my area. And NAs are rarely posted on caches where the CO is paying attention, so the COs don't care, but other seekers appreciate NAs both because they signal a cache not worth seeking and because they help get bad caches off the map.

 

We actually have a reviewer that deals with this sort of thing on a regular basis...and gets an incredible amount of flak for it on social media and at events.

This is why I don't want reviewers to squander their neutral status by being the ones responsible for scanning for bad caches and unilaterally archiving them. Let a seekers act as prosecutor and jury, and leave the reviewers to act only as impartial judges.

 

He typically scans for NM logs and bases his TD log on those that appear to be 'troubled'.

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Thank you everyone for the insight. I didn't realize you have to post a NA from the website, no wonder I didn't see it as an option on the app! I have no problem logging NM, but when I see that a cache owner hasn't been active in quite some time and there are multiple NM posted, I think a NA would be appropriate. I don't care if that makes me the "bad guy" LoL

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I usually preface my log with "Needs Attention". This seems to be less of an irritant to some COs who are delinquent, but active and sensitive. Then I will outline what is wrong with the cache.

 

I think it is important to note that L0ne.r appears to consider trying to get caches archived a full-time job, submitting nearly as many Needs Archived logs in a year as I find caches.

 

It's also important to know that L0ne.r has hidden zero caches of his/her own.

 

As a result, I would not take the advice given very seriously.

 

That being said, a polite Needs Maintenance log, when appropriate, is a very good thing. Just don't get all obsessive over them.

 

The problem I have here is that it seems like this opinion is based on the number of N/A's rather than the validity of them. Were all these N/A's justified? If so than what's the problem?

 

The fact that L0ne.R hasn't hid a single cache has no baring on whether or not a cache needs a N/M or N/A whatsoever. From their find count it looks like they have enough experience to make that call.

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The fact that L0ne.R hasn't hid a single cache has no baring on whether or not a cache needs a N/M or N/A whatsoever. From their find count it looks like they have enough experience to make that call.

 

The fact that the user profile associated with Lone.R doesn't show any hidden caches doesn't mean that the person using that profile hasn't hidden any caches. Some people might want to use different accounts for hiding and finding caches.

 

 

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I usually preface my log with "Needs Attention". This seems to be less of an irritant to some COs who are delinquent, but active and sensitive. Then I will outline what is wrong with the cache.

 

I think it is important to note that L0ne.r appears to consider trying to get caches archived a full-time job, submitting nearly as many Needs Archived logs in a year as I find caches.

 

It's also important to know that L0ne.r has hidden zero caches of his/her own.

 

As a result, I would not take the advice given very seriously.

 

That being said, a polite Needs Maintenance log, when appropriate, is a very good thing. Just don't get all obsessive over them.

 

The problem I have here is that it seems like this opinion is based on the number of N/A's rather than the validity of them. Were all these N/A's justified? If so than what's the problem?

 

The fact that L0ne.R hasn't hid a single cache has no baring on whether or not a cache needs a N/M or N/A whatsoever. From their find count it looks like they have enough experience to make that call.

 

Thanks justintim1999. There sure would be a much much larger problem with abandoned caches in the database if only those who've hidden caches could post NAs.

 

Not all hiders have the games integrity at heart. I know of one cache owner with over 500 active hides, (he encourages throwdowns on the caches he's hidden), who will post NAs (legitimate NAs - the caches have delinquent or absent owners) and as soon as it is archived, lists his own cache there. If you're in his vicinity it'll be rare to find anything but his caches.

Edited by L0ne.R
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The fact that L0ne.R hasn't hid a single cache has no baring on whether or not a cache needs a N/M or N/A whatsoever. From their find count it looks like they have enough experience to make that call.

 

Good point. I was wrong. I feel bad that they are perpetually unhappy because they actively seek out poorly-maintained caches, but that's their business, not mine.

 

Anyway:

 

On this topic, however, I saw something good last night. Amazon has the large bison-type tubes available again! These are about the size of a film canister but they last a whole lot better. They have enough room for small items and a short pencil. And they are less than $2 apiece.

 

I agree completely with L0ne.r about one thing:

 

There is no excuse for putting out a cache container that will not last.

 

By the way, if you really want a water-tight container, place a regular bison inside of one of these. Even if some water does get into the outer container, the inside should stay pretty dry, and protection of the inside container's o-ring from UV should make it last a lot longer.

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The fact that L0ne.R hasn't hid a single cache has no baring on whether or not a cache needs a N/M or N/A whatsoever. From their find count it looks like they have enough experience to make that call.

 

Good point. I was wrong. I feel bad that they are perpetually unhappy because they actively seek out poorly-maintained caches, but that's their business, not mine.

 

Anyway:

 

On this topic, however, I saw something good last night. Amazon has the large bison-type tubes available again! These are about the size of a film canister but they last a whole lot better. They have enough room for small items and a short pencil. And they are less than $2 apiece.

 

I agree completely with L0ne.r about one thing:

 

There is no excuse for putting out a cache container that will not last.

 

By the way, if you really want a water-tight container, place a regular bison inside of one of these. Even if some water does get into the outer container, the inside should stay pretty dry, and protection of the inside container's o-ring from UV should make it last a lot longer.

 

I guess I don't understand the logic. Why is someone "unhappy" because they choose to actively remove abandoned caches?

 

Over time issuing a N/M or N/A has somehow become a negative thing and by doing so indicates some ulterior motive other than simply asking the cache owner to maintain their cache or remove it from play. I'm sure this is the reason many hesitate using them.

 

We need to remove the negative perception of the N/M and N/A. When used right these tools are our only means of protecting the integrity and overall health of our game.

 

I can vouch for the "double container" method. One of my hides involves using a provided pair of binoculars which are in a lock n' lock that's inside a storm container. After about a year and a half the inner container is as dry as a bone.

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