Should attendees at an event be given an advantage to find caches

[+NYPaddleCacher]

Over in the Features forum section there was a discussion of using a public forum to get a group of cachers together to solve a set of puzzle caches. I started to post a response there but concluded that it would have gone off-topic for a Feature request and I thought the thread drift might deserve a thread of it's own.

 

Basically the question is related to incentives offered to potential Geo Event attendees in order to increase the attendance of the event. I've always felt that the purpose of an event should be purely to socialize and perhaps share general tips (e.g. puzzle solving 101) with others in the community. I see it as a chance to meet other geocachers in the area, without actually geocaching.

 

Now it seems that most events try to provide some sort of incentive to potential attendees, typically by having a bunch of caches published just prior to the event near the event location so that they can go out and rack up a bunch of finds with other attendees.

 

The idea of solving puzzles in a public forum sound like an interesting idea but it reminds me a bit of a offering incentives to attend an event by giving out a big advantage to find certain caches only to those attending an event. I can think of three specific examples.

 

Someone place a tree climbing cache in conjunction with an event. On the day of the event, 15 people logged the cache though from reading the logs it was clear that only one person climbed the tree. I didn't attend the event and stopped by the location about two weeks later, discovered that I was physically incapable of climbing the tree. I didn't do anything different from the 14 people that attended the event that stood around at the base of the tree but they all posted found it logs and it will almost certainly be a DNF for me.

 

I've seen more than one event where several puzzle caches are published in conjunction of the event. The owner of the caches attends the event and either answers questions or provides the final coordinates to those that attend the event. Those that don't attend the event have to solve it on their own.

 

And most recently, there was a CITO event nearby. The CO of the event also posted a "geo-mob" cache just prior to the event. In order to obtain the coordinates, one had to be within a small radius of a specific location with a smart phone at the same time as 6 others (with smart phones). Everyone had to connect a web site at the same time in order to obtain the coordinates. There are 30 found it logs on the cache. 28 of them were posted the day of the event and the other two mentioned obtaining the coordinates while at the event. Given that this is a fairly small geo-community, it's unlikely that anyone that didn't attend the event will be able to get 7 people together in order to obtain the coordinates for the final.

 

Should event attendees be given an advantage to find certain caches, and that advantage used as an incentive to attend an event?

[+ChileHead]

If it increases the social aspect of geocaching, sure. Hopefully the event is more than just finding caches, but sometimes that's what it becomes.

 

Most of the geomobs are released around events. The first one (mine) was found on the day of the event and then not again for many many months.

[+Manville Possum]

I recently attended a CITO and a Event cache where some new caches were published in the area. Those caches got a few finds that day from the attendees, but only one cache has finds after the event, and that was two weeks ago.

 

I don't see a problem with publishing new caches around events. It adds fun to events IMO.

[+BBWolf+3Pigs]

I used to hide new caches for release during my summer time event.

 

But it got to the point where everyone was darting off to find them in hopes of FTF. Not much socializing for those folks.

 

I eventually stopped doing it.

[+cerberus1]

I feel if folks have to be bribed to attend events, they're probably not worth holding.

We've noticed this a few years ago.

Not sure why (me! ME! ME!) there has to be incentives to do even the simplest of things anymore, hanging out to geochat.

- Sad.

 

There's a couple event groups here now that have an outing (often a new cache in the evening) afterwards.

 

On one, after all but us logged a cache not there, we stopped attending...

[+niraD]

I'm not a fan of event activities that take people away from the event, effectively killing the social side of the event. So I don't care for incentives like lots of new caches published for the event.

 

But other incentives can encourage socialization, whether it's free food, or hints for the organizer's puzzle caches, or live entertainment, or whatever.

[+Mudfrog]

I used to hide new caches for release during my summer time event.

 

But it got to the point where everyone was darting off to find them in hopes of FTF. Not much socializing for those folks.

 

I eventually stopped doing it.

I've seen this many times. People show up at an event to get the smiley, sometimes for only 5 minutes, then take off to go find more caches placed around the area. There's definitely not as much socializing at many of the events we've been to in the past couple of years. But as has been pointed out by others a few times, posting new caches helps get attendance up, errr,,, bribes people to show up and log attended online.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

If it increases the social aspect of geocaching, sure. Hopefully the event is more than just finding caches, but sometimes that's what it becomes.

 

Most of the geomobs are released around events. The first one (mine) was found on the day of the event and then not again for many many months.

 

With your expertise around geomobs I was hoping that you might respond.

 

I'm not so sure that these enticements are to create the social aspect of the game, but more to increase attendance at an event that *does* become all about finding caches.

 

 

[+The A-Team]

Incentives tied to events are a regional thing. For example, incentives are pretty much non-existent around here. Caches aren't published in conjunction with them (with the exception of Mega events). Puzzle solutions/hints aren't handed out. Attendees aren't given a heads-up about/allowed to find a cache that hasn't been published yet. Events are just events where cachers socialize, and it works great that way.

[+CanadianRockies]

Someone place a tree climbing cache in conjunction with an event. On the day of the event, 15 people logged the cache though from reading the logs it was clear that only one person climbed the tree. I didn't attend the event and stopped by the location about two weeks later, discovered that I was physically incapable of climbing the tree. I didn't do anything different from the 14 people that attended the event that stood around at the base of the tree but they all posted found it logs and it will almost certainly be a DNF for me.

I won't claim a smiley for a tree-climbing cache if I don't climb the tree. I might attend this kind of event if I thought there probably would be some worthwhile socializing, but I wouldn't do it just to watch someone climb a tree. As for the 14 geocachers whose ethics allow them to claim a find that I wouldn't, there's really not much I can do about that.

 

I've seen more than one event where several puzzle caches are published in conjunction of the event. The owner of the caches attends the event and either answers questions or provides the final coordinates to those that attend the event. Those that don't attend the event have to solve it on their own.

I don't seek hints that aren't part of the puzzle's listing page, so I've never attended an event to solve a specific puzzle (or group of puzzles). As for the geocachers whose ethics allow them to cooperatively solve puzzles, there's really not much I can do about that.

 

And most recently, there was a CITO event nearby. The CO of the event also posted a "geo-mob" cache just prior to the event. In order to obtain the coordinates, one had to be within a small radius of a specific location with a smart phone at the same time as 6 others (with smart phones). Everyone had to connect a web site at the same time in order to obtain the coordinates. There are 30 found it logs on the cache. 28 of them were posted the day of the event and the other two mentioned obtaining the coordinates while at the event. Given that this is a fairly small geo-community, it's unlikely that anyone that didn't attend the event will be able to get 7 people together in order to obtain the coordinates for the final.

Some caches require teamwork (or are much easier to find as part of a team). If I'm not part of a team when I search for those types of caches, then I probably won't find them. I'm also unlikely to find SCUBA caches, caches that require rappelling down a cliff, or rock-climbing caches. Fortunately, I don't feel the need to find every cache out there.

[+on4bam]

Most of the events here have their new caches published AFTER the event. Caches are placed, attendees are provided with "roadbooks" containing the new cachelistings and/or GPX files of all new caches.

It's not unusual to get 100 or more new cache notifications on a Sunday evening on the day of an event.

 

We stay away from the area where larger events are held as we don't like the "mass logging" where people stand in line to write their names in the event caches logbooks.

[+4wheeler]

Everyone makes their own rules for geocaching and the only one that has to follow your rules is you. If you don't want event attendees to have an advantage finding caches at an event then when you host an event, don't hide any new caches nearby. See problem fixed.

[+dprovan]

In my area, one cache is often prepared for publishing after the event, and the people at the event are given a heads up. Traditionally, "FTF" is given away in a raffle, but the "winner" always takes anyone that wants to come with him to find the cache.

 

But it has nothing to do with what happens in the event. In fact, it's used to give everyone an excuse to leave the event, since the events I've been to seem like they'd go on forever otherwise.

[+Mudfrog]

In my area, one cache is often prepared for publishing after the event, and the people at the event are given a heads up. Traditionally, "FTF" is given away in a raffle, but the "winner" always takes anyone that wants to come with him to find the cache.

 

But it has nothing to do with what happens in the event. In fact, it's used to give everyone an excuse to leave the event, since the events I've been to seem like they'd go on forever otherwise.

I have to say, now i've seen everything!

[+Harry Dolphin]

Incentives tied to events are a regional thing. For example, incentives are pretty much non-existent around here. Caches aren't published in conjunction with them (with the exception of Mega events). Puzzle solutions/hints aren't handed out. Attendees aren't given a heads-up about/allowed to find a cache that hasn't been published yet. Events are just events where cachers socialize, and it works great that way.

 

Hmm... I have seen local events where twelve cache were hidden nearby, but not published. After the event. they were hidden a few miles off. Anyone who found the event caches could log the actual caches after they were hidden. In most cases they were the majority of the finds.

[+Team Microdot]

Incentives tied to events are a regional thing. For example, incentives are pretty much non-existent around here. Caches aren't published in conjunction with them (with the exception of Mega events). Puzzle solutions/hints aren't handed out. Attendees aren't given a heads-up about/allowed to find a cache that hasn't been published yet. Events are just events where cachers socialize, and it works great that way.

 

Hmm... I have seen local events where twelve cache were hidden nearby, but not published. After the event. they were hidden a few miles off. Anyone who found the event caches could log the actual caches after they were hidden. In most cases they were the majority of the finds.

 

Now I've seen everything!

[+NYPaddleCacher]

Everyone makes their own rules for geocaching and the only one that has to follow your rules is you. If you don't want event attendees to have an advantage finding caches at an event then when you host an event, don't hide any new caches nearby. See problem fixed.

 

I didn't start the thread to fix a problem that I, personally, have. I just opened, what I thought might be an interested topic for discussion. I was more interested in what others think and not expecting a solution.

 

I haven't hidden a new cache since 2009.

 

 

[+Mudfrog]

Incentives tied to events are a regional thing. For example, incentives are pretty much non-existent around here. Caches aren't published in conjunction with them (with the exception of Mega events). Puzzle solutions/hints aren't handed out. Attendees aren't given a heads-up about/allowed to find a cache that hasn't been published yet. Events are just events where cachers socialize, and it works great that way.

 

Hmm... I have seen local events where twelve cache were hidden nearby, but not published. After the event. they were hidden a few miles off. Anyone who found the event caches could log the actual caches after they were hidden. In most cases they were the majority of the finds.

 

Now I've seen everything!

I officially retract my "now i've seen everything" comment from above. It's more appropriate here.

 

I attended an event some time ago where the organizers hid "replicas" of existing caches. The replicas were temporary caches for the event and were a lot of fun to find. The thing that struck me funny though was that their owners insisted that finders log their finds on the already existing cache pages. Many people did but it wasn't something i wanted to do.

[+redsox_mark]

In my area, there has been the occasional event which includes new caches. I've been to around 100 events and I recall 2 times this was done. The CO/Event Owner pre-arranged with the reviewer to publish at a specific time (e.g. 9 PM), but handed out coordinates to those attending earlier (e.g. 8 PM).

 

One of these events was a CITO, so cachers simply found the caches as they were doing the CITO. Everyone still met up at the end to socialize, so it didn't impact the CITO really.

 

The other was a standard event. Some attendees went out to find the new caches (at staggered times), others didn't go out at all. Most who went out went in groups and returned to the event. So the event had lots of socializing. (I went out in a small group, we attempted just some of them, then returned).

 

I've also seen events which use other things as "incentives", e.g. games and prizes. One regular event kind of grew out of control as a result of this. The CO was so good at getting donations for prizes that some of these were quite valuable. He would get great attendance but the stakes were so high that everyone was focused on the games, and there were issues with cheating. Eventually the CO decided to stop this event.

 

I've seen a couple of events advertised as puzzle solving, but haven't attempted one. Though I find that puzzle solving, hint sharing tends to happen naturally at events.

[+Isonzo Karst]

Should attendees at an event be given an advantage to find caches

 

Sure. Geocaching, like life, offers advantages to those who network.

Attend events, meet people, talk about caches and cachers, learn.

 

Far more than pre-release of cache coords to event attendees, this is the "advantage" benefit of events.

[+hzoi]

I wanted the first couple events we hosted to be special. I hid new caches in the area and asked the reviewer not to publish them until after the event. As the event was winding down, I handed out sheets to the attendees and we went out. As it turned out, for at least one of these, the reviewer actually published them that morning, so some folks had already found them by the time the event started; others went out after and we had fun tagging along and getting feedback from the finders.

 

I did this for at least one more event I can think of, the 10 Years! event we hosted in Charlottesville. I don't think I've done it for any of those after, though I have attended a few events where the host has done so. And they did it in style -- the events were in Alabama state parks, and they had gotten permission to hide dozens of caches around the park. This was also done at the first mega event we attended. Good times were had by all.

 

So obviously event hosts are allowed to do this. Should event hosts do this? It's up to the host. The problem becomes when people who are too emotionally attached to FTF get involved, both within the event and without.

 

Within: I attended an event in Maryland where a guy showed up early literally so he could log FTF at the event. (Really?) The host also had a number of caches hidden around that hadn't yet been published. He was racing out front to be the first one to find the cache, and he actually got angry when, as he was off doing something else, the rest of us dared to hunt for a cache without him. Get a grip...well, at least he wasn't pushing any children down in his attempt to be the first to sign a log.

 

Without: there are also hurt feelings involved when people feel excluded from the FTF because they didn't attend the event. Can't say I have much sympathy for this. I've missed out on events and therefore being first on caches released there. I don't really care about missing out on the caches -- they will still be there later, and the earth will not cease its rotation merely because I was not among the first to snag them. But I do enjoy a good event, so I feel more put out when I can't get to one. And events where the organizer puts out new caches tend to just be better events than the same old 9th Suntuesday lunch meet down at the buffet.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

 

I did this for at least one more event I can think of, the 10 Years! event we hosted in Charlottesville. I don't think I've done it for any of those after, though I have attended a few events where the host has done so. And they did it in style -- the events were in Alabama state parks, and they had gotten permission to hide dozens of caches around the park. This was also done at the first mega event we attended. Good times were had by all.

 

As long as those caches don't take away from the social aspect during the event I don't have much of an issue with them. The permanence guideline should guarantee that they're still findable by someone that is unable to attend the event.

 

 

Without: there are also hurt feelings involved when people feel excluded from the FTF because they didn't attend the event. Can't say I have much sympathy for this.

 

I can't say I have much sympathy for anyone that complains about not being FTF, no matter what reason.

 

 

 

[+hzoi]

 

I did this for at least one more event I can think of, the 10 Years! event we hosted in Charlottesville. I don't think I've done it for any of those after, though I have attended a few events where the host has done so. And they did it in style -- the events were in Alabama state parks, and they had gotten permission to hide dozens of caches around the park. This was also done at the first mega event we attended. Good times were had by all.

 

As long as those caches don't take away from the social aspect during the event I don't have much of an issue with them. The permanence guideline should guarantee that they're still findable by someone that is unable to attend the event.

 

Indeed. I always made handing out the list the last part of the event -- right after everyone paid their tabs. And I kept the caches alive for a while -- my Office Space themed letterbox stayed up for five more years, then when I archived it, a local cacher replicated the listing and republished it as their cache.

 

I know some folks love doing temp caches at their events, and there are communities that log events multiple times for those events (or at least there used to be). Never understood that. If it keeps them happy, well and good, but I've never understood or participated in this.

[+KatnissRue]

I personally think it's great. I cache mostly on my own and having a group to go with after eating a meal is a lot of fun.