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Is it OK to not sign the paper log?


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I went to a history presentation at the Sioux City Public Museum, my local museum, today about the history of bicycling in Iowa. I rode my bike down and after when I was riding home I remembered a geocache I wanted to try and find. I had some time to spare so I stopped, pulled up the app on my smartphone to check how close I was. I rode to the general area and eventually found the geocache. I logged it with the app right away and commented I did not have a pen to sign the paper log but found the cache. I do not carry any sort of writing utensil when I ride bike. So does this find still count for me as I did log it through the app? I can provide digital photographic proof if necessary as I took the cap off the cache and photographed the rolled up log inside the container. I can tell on the log it says "Name/Date" and I can see a letter "G" which I believe is part of the word "Geocache". So is this acceptable or should I go back and sign it when I have a chance?

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I went to a history presentation at the Sioux City Public Museum, my local museum, today about the history of bicycling in Iowa. I rode my bike down and after when I was riding home I remembered a geocache I wanted to try and find. I had some time to spare so I stopped, pulled up the app on my smartphone to check how close I was. I rode to the general area and eventually found the geocache. I logged it with the app right away and commented I did not have a pen to sign the paper log but found the cache. I do not carry any sort of writing utensil when I ride bike. So does this find still count for me as I did log it through the app? I can provide digital photographic proof if necessary as I took the cap off the cache and photographed the rolled up log inside the container. I can tell on the log it says "Name/Date" and I can see a letter "G" which I believe is part of the word "Geocache". So is this acceptable or should I go back and sign it when I have a chance?

 

Strictly following the rules you have not found it. "retrieve cache, sign log, put back, log online".

Simple solution, go back and sign the log.

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One of the primary aspects of geocaching is signing the physical logbook. Most cachers make it a point to always carry some type of writing utensil, so it may be worthwhile for you to consider adding a pen and/or pencil to your bike. You could velcro a pen/pencil to your bike, or run a zip-tie through the cap of a pen, or find a pen that attaches to your keychain.

 

In regards to your find. If the CO audits the physical logbook and doesn't see your name inside, then they would be within their rights to delete your log. If they do delete it, then you will receive an email and can send your photo to the CO and explain the situation. Then it's up to their discretion whether your "Found It" log can stand or not. Even if they say it's okay, then you'd have to re-submit your log.

 

Cachers have written their cache names (or abbreviations) on log sheets with dirt, blood, or leaves. Here is an example where I didn't have my pen and the one inside the cache had dried out, so I pressed a leaf to get my initials (NCT) onto the log book.

 

At this point, you could go back and sign the log, but it's kinda up to you. I would go back and sign it, but that's how I prefer to play the game because it's my own fault that I wasn't prepared to sign the log. If the log is soaked to where I can't sign, then I'd take a photo and add something like "Can send a photo of the log if the CO desires". That might encourage the CO to ask you about your find, instead of just deleting it. I see that others have added some responses while I'm typing this, so will just end this with a couple links:

 

Geocaching 101 - 1.15 Are there rules?

#1 - Sign both the logbook and log your find online to get your smiley. Geocache owners love reading about your experience.

 

3.Finding a Geocache - 3.2. How do I find the geocache and what should I do once I've found it?

When you find the cache, sign the logbook and return it to the cache. ... Finally, visit the cache page to log your find and share your experience with others!

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This could happen if the CO is allowing photo logs:

-------------------------------------------------------------

 

http://coord.info/GC5QB6H

 

Temporarily Disable Listing

13 Sep 15

 

I am temporarily disabling this cache listing because virtual (photo) finds of the cache location have been allowed.

This cache listing will be archived if any further virtual logs are not deleted.

You can either enable the cache page archive the listing.

If the cache has not been replaced and the cache page enabled in about 30 days, I will archive this for you.

I look forward to hearing from you. To respond, please do NOT send me an email or message. I have your cache on my watchlist, and I will receive a notification when you post your log.

 

Thanks,

skeetsurfer

 

-------------------------------------------

 

skeetsurfer

Reviewer

 

Archive Archive

12 Oct 15

 

Archived because virtual logs were not deleted, not because of alleged presence of asbestos.

 

Geocaching.com Volunteer Cache Reviewer

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I can provide digital photographic proof if necessary as I took the cap off the cache and photographed the rolled up log inside the container. I can tell on the log it says "Name/Date" and I can see a letter "G" which I believe is part of the word "Geocache".

 

Hardly the most reliable evidence - unless there was something unmistakably unique about the cache container.

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This could happen if the CO is allowing photo logs:

-------------------------------------------------------------

 

http://coord.info/GC5QB6H

You didn't read far enough back. The CO removed the container and was accepting photo logs.

 

We have now removed the listing of the container. Please feel free to carry on logging the cache. As proof of log it would be really nice for a picture to be added. This was such a wonderful spot to sit and chill out.

LeeUliramblers

 

I highly doubt any reviewer would archive a physical cache because someone(s) posted photo logs instead of signing the log.

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I’ve done that on several occasions where I’m out riding my mountain bike and decide to see if there are any caches in the area. I belong to the school of thought that a considerate CO will provide something to sign the logbook. If it were my cache, I would accept the find. I can’t imagine a CO putting in the time and effort to cross reference physical and online logs to verify someone visited the cache. This response comes from someone who geocaches for the journey and having fun while paying no attention to statistics and numbers.

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The cache container is too small to hold a writing utensil. And though it was well hidden and hanging in a tree hanging a pen or pencil next to the container may be more noticeable. I'll go back and sign it within the next week, as my schedule allows.

 

I was not intending on gecaching yesterday which is why I did not have a ink pen or pencil. When I have purposely gone out geocaching I made a point to carry something to write with. This was a spur of the moment, secondary decision on my way back home from the museum.

 

There have been caches I have found that the log was wet and could not be signed even though I had a ink pen on me. When this has happened I of course do not sign the log, but did log it online, and I did let the cache owner know the log needs to be replaced by a dry one. Do I have to go back to all of those caches and see if a dry log is now in place and sign it with it now being over a month ago? Or should I only do so if the cache owner asks me to?

Edited by SUX_VR_40_Rider
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You are OK on those old wet logs. You don't have to go find them again unless you want to.

 

Generally, having a pen or pencil with you is a good idea, but sometimes it happens that you don't (or it decides not to write). Do the best you can. You know you found the cache, and you have a photo if it comes into question, you are good.

 

The 'archiving for photo logging' example above is a different scenario where the cache no longer existed, yet people logged that they were at the location with a photo.

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What is up with some coming across as scolding me like I am a child for logging the found cache through the app but not signing it at the time? I think that is a bit much. Is this group that uptight about things like this?

 

There have been many issues with people falsely logging caches. Signatures in the logbook are the only way a cache owner can verify you were there. People are sensitive about this.

 

It's best practice, when joining a forum, to peruse older posts to familiarize yourself with the common issues. When you jump right in without checking, you risk inflaming long-standing arguments that really have nothing to do with your immediate concern.

 

You'll find that the beginner section of the forum tends to be a little gentler toward new cachers asking these 101-level questions.

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I figured I spent enough time in the beginner section and now want to swim with the "big kids", I just figured I'd be treated as such. I have to be honest when people come across this way to a newbie it almost makes me feel I want to give up the hobby. I have a thick skin but there is a line and I think some crossed it on levels of using tact and respect.

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I figured I spent enough time in the beginner section and now want to swim with the "big kids", I just figured I'd be treated as such. I have to be honest when people come across this way to a newbie it almost makes me feel I want to give up the hobby. I have a thick skin but there is a line and I think some crossed it on levels of using tact and respect.

 

Your skin may not be as thick as you think. None of the responses I've read in this thread strike me as "scolding"

 

As has been stated several times here: if you didn't sign the log because you didn't bring a writing implement then the CO can delete your find.

 

In the small bag under the seat of my road bike you will find a multitool, a spare tube, a CO2 cartridge and a pen. Same for the mountain bike. There are three pens and a Sharpie in my Camelback. There are two pens in a waterproof container that is permanently clipped to my pfd when I kayak.

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I figured I spent enough time in the beginner section and now want to swim with the "big kids", I just figured I'd be treated as such. I have to be honest when people come across this way to a newbie it almost makes me feel I want to give up the hobby. I have a thick skin but there is a line and I think some crossed it on levels of using tact and respect.

 

Your skin may not be as thick as you think. None of the responses I've read in this thread strike me as "scolding"

 

As has been stated several times here: if you didn't sign the log because you didn't bring a writing implement then the CO can delete your find.

 

In the small bag under the seat of my road bike you will find a multitool, a spare tube, a CO2 cartridge and a pen. Same for the mountain bike. There are three pens and a Sharpie in my Camelback. There are two pens in a waterproof container that is permanently clipped to my pfd when I kayak.

 

Like I said I am going to go sign it when my schedule allows. That will be sometime next week when I commute to work on my bike. I ride a Vision recumbent and have plenty of room in my seat frame bag for a writing utensil. I just didn't have one on me yesterday.

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Like I said I am going to go sign it when my schedule allows. That will be sometime next week when I commute to work on my bike. I ride a Vision recumbent and have plenty of room in my seat frame bag for a writing utensil. I just didn't have one on me yesterday.

 

No problem then. Sign log, log online... next week. Problem solved... next... B)

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I figured I spent enough time in the beginner section and now want to swim with the "big kids", I just figured I'd be treated as such. I have to be honest when people come across this way to a newbie it almost makes me feel I want to give up the hobby. I have a thick skin but there is a line and I think some crossed it on levels of using tact and respect.

 

So instead of acting like an adult and asking questions and finding out the rules before you start, you just do it your way (which was not the correct way) and expect people to accept it. You're going to be disappointed.

 

Anyway this was probably the meanest reply. Your question was andwered, with explanations. (that signing the log is one of the few rules) and the explanation that owners who allow photos regularly could get their cache archived.

 

And like I said in another thread not having a pen is not a good excuse. You're a geocacher, thats part of the game. You could lose it, break it, run out of ink. Ok. But knowing you dont have one, why go looking for the cache? IMO everybody should always carry a pen anyway. They're cheap and small, and used very often.

Edited by T.D.M.22
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IMO everybody should always carry a pan anyway. They're cheap and small, and used very often.

 

Well, that really depends on the size of the pan, doesn't it? ;) And I'm not sure how often they're used anymore. A lot of people just eat out and don't cook for themselves. :laughing:

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IMO everybody should always carry a pan anyway. They're cheap and small, and used very often.

 

Well, that really depends on the size of the pan, doesn't it? ;) And I'm not sure how often they're used anymore. A lot of people just eat out and don't cook for themselves. :laughing:

 

Could use it to look for gold. Or wear a houscoat and chase after someone trying to hit them with it. Or make a good breakfast between caches.

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I figured I spent enough time in the beginner section and now want to swim with the "big kids", I just figured I'd be treated as such. I have to be honest when people come across this way to a newbie it almost makes me feel I want to give up the hobby. I have a thick skin but there is a line and I think some crossed it on levels of using tact and respect.

 

So instead of acting like an adult and asking questions and finding out the rules before you start, you just do it your way (which was not the correct way) and expect people to accept it. You're going to be disappointed.

 

Anyway this was probably the meanest reply. Your question was andwered, with explanations. (that signing the log is one of the few rules) and the explanation that owners who allow photos regularly could get their cache archived.

 

And like I said in another thread not having a pen is not a good excuse. You're a geocacher, thats part of the game. You could lose it, break it, run out of ink. Ok. But knowing you dont have one, why go looking for the cache? IMO everybody should always carry a pen anyway. They're cheap and small, and used very often.

I think he already knows the rules; he just didn’t have a pen with him that day and wanted input from the community. No need to attack him and tell him he needs to act like an adult. Insults are cheap and small but unlike pens they shouldn’t be used often.

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What I've learned from the forums: never admit in your online log that you forgot your pen.

 

Most cache owners treat the log as if they wish they didn't have to include one. They throw in a scrap piece of paper because they have to.

 

I sometimes wonder why I bother signing logs. Especially the moldy ones. I doubt any owner of an moldy old log is going to be checking it against the online logs. I've stopped signing nano logs, how would a cache owner even decipher the blobs and squiggles. I also stopped signing bison tubes logs that are tattered and moldy (often damp or wet or soaked). The owner doesn't care, neither do I. So many of the caches in my area are abandoned, may of them throwdowns, the owner is never going to check and those owners that are still active could care less about the paper log (given that the container is leaky and the logsheet is a scrap bit of torn paper or a thrown in replacement from a finder).

 

In the old days, a cache was expected to have a pen/pencil. Many of us carried our own but the cache had a back up. We would even note in our logs if there wasn't a pen/pencil in the cache. I always include a pen/pencil or two in our hides and replace/add them when I do a maintenance run. I'm still old-school when it comes to hides. I see it as a courtesy to finders and it doesn't cost me much. About 3 cents, I get dollar store pencils and cut them in 3 to make small pencils that fit even film canisters. I sometimes put them in caches I find. I read occasionally that the next finder appreciated the pencil in the container.

 

But I have on occasion signed with a stick and mud or green stain from a leaf. I'll do that on the logbooks where the owner appears to care about their hides and maintain their cache.

 

I realize that the paper log signature is a form of proof. I understand when a CO suspects that some cachers are not actually finding their cache but recording a find anyway. Deleting a log may help to discourage this behaviour. But as a CO if you have the feeling that the finder really did find the cache and they really didn't have a pen, deleting the log seems unfair. Especially when things like group finds under one group name doesn't get deleted, yet maybe only 1/5 of the group actually saw the cache. Or high terrain caches where maybe one person rowed over and signed for the other 10 people waiting on shore.

 

I never felt that signing the paper log's most primary function was mandatory enforcement of a find. What I like about the signing experience is the connection with the next finders, with the CO in a more personal way, by leaving a note at the scene in my handwriting. It's different from logging online.

Edited by L0ne.R
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There's a simple way to cut through all this - at least it works for me when the log is unsignable - either because I don't happen to have a writing implement about my person or because the log is too wet to sign.

 

Take a good photograph of the existing logbook and include that photograph with your online log.

 

It's very easy then for people to compare the names in the photograph with the names in the preceeding online logs and satisfy themselves that you indeed had that cache log in your hand and therefore reasonable to assume that you found the cache.

 

I've done this myself a few times, slept soundly thereafter, happy that there's sufficient evidence to prove my find, and never had a log deleted :)

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It's very easy then for people to compare the names in the photograph with the names in the preceeding online logs and satisfy themselves that you indeed had that cache log in your hand and therefore reasonable to assume that you found the cache.

 

 

Curious....Would anyone here, that will delete a "I forgot my pencil" log, delete it if they uploaded a photo of the paper log?

 

I've never had a log deleted either and have sometimes uploaded (or can provide) photo evidence.

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There's a simple way to cut through all this - at least it works for me when the log is unsignable - either because I don't happen to have a writing implement about my person or because the log is too wet to sign.

 

Take a good photograph of the existing logbook and include that photograph with your online log.

 

It's very easy then for people to compare the names in the photograph with the names in the preceeding online logs and satisfy themselves that you indeed had that cache log in your hand and therefore reasonable to assume that you found the cache.

 

I've done this myself a few times, slept soundly thereafter, happy that there's sufficient evidence to prove my find, and never had a log deleted :)

 

+1 - I do this generally if the log is soaked beyond writing, as I did forget a pen once, and since carry several (and a backpack)...

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I’ve done that on several occasions where I’m out riding my mountain bike and decide to see if there are any caches in the area. I belong to the school of thought that a considerate CO will provide something to sign the logbook. If it were my cache, I would accept the find. I can’t imagine a CO putting in the time and effort to cross reference physical and online logs to verify someone visited the cache. This response comes from someone who geocaches for the journey and having fun while paying no attention to statistics and numbers.

If the CO takes the time , effort and expense of placing the cache perhaps the finders could reciprocate by taking some time and effort to sign the log.

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I’ve done that on several occasions where I’m out riding my mountain bike and decide to see if there are any caches in the area. I belong to the school of thought that a considerate CO will provide something to sign the logbook. If it were my cache, I would accept the find. I can’t imagine a CO putting in the time and effort to cross reference physical and online logs to verify someone visited the cache. This response comes from someone who geocaches for the journey and having fun while paying no attention to statistics and numbers.

If the CO takes the time , effort and expense of placing the cache perhaps the finders could reciprocate by taking some time and effort to sign the log.

How much extra effort would it take a CO to add a pencil to the cache? I have a cache on a popular mountain bike riding trail and I try to make sure it has a pencil as I don't expect many mountain bike riders who visit the cache on the fly will be carrying a pencil. I’m very disappointed on those rare occasions where I didn’t sign the logbook as I enjoy writing logs thanking the CO for the experience. I’m just one of those people that doesn’t always carry a pencil with them and perhaps that’s what makes me so avid about the CO providing everything the finder will need. If my cache does not have a pencil and someone can’t log it, I’m not going to deny them their find and sour their experience. There is still the online log they fill out. It’s all about getting out there and having fun and not worrying about who didn’t do what they were suppose to do. I cringed when I read that some CO’s actually take photos of their logbooks and cross reference them with the online logs. I never thought I would see the game evolve to this. It takes the fun out of what was originally a game to get outside and explore somewhere new.

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What is up with some coming across as scolding me like I am a child for logging the found cache through the app but not signing it at the time? I think that is a bit much. Is this group that uptight about things like this?

I'm sorry you feel that way. I think the responses have been very matter of fact. I don't see anyone being judgemental, let alone scolding. Could you point out some examples so we can explore how the posts could have been worded better?

 

It is not a find in the sense that the CO is free to delete the find if he wants. On the other hand, lots of people admit forgetting a pen, some post a picture, and I've never seen a CO reject the "no pen" excuse whether a picture's provided or not. But why would you bother to ask for such an exception when you can go back with a pen, sign the log, and post the find then? Didn't you have fun the first time?

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I think we have all done it to some extent, although some will make a smudge or other mark with a twig and mud, or yes... I've even heard about blood being used. Being able to, one way or another, prove that you had the log in your hand goes a long way towards the cache owner excepting your claim.

 

HOWEVER... this should, by far, be the exception, not the rule! Allowing it too often will erode the integrity of the game, allowing arm chair logging and other such cheats. So... use it with care and realize that the cache owner is the one who will decide if you can keep your find or not.

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What is up with some coming across as scolding me like I am a child for logging the found cache through the app but not signing it at the time? I think that is a bit much. Is this group that uptight about things like this?

 

There have been many issues with people falsely logging caches. Signatures in the logbook are the only way a cache owner can verify you were there. People are sensitive about this.

 

It's best practice, when joining a forum, to peruse older posts to familiarize yourself with the common issues. When you jump right in without checking, you risk inflaming long-standing arguments that really have nothing to do with your immediate concern.

 

You'll find that the beginner section of the forum tends to be a little gentler toward new cachers asking these 101-level questions.

 

I beg to differ with your advice to search for existing threads. I fail to see why that is any better than starting a new thread, and certainly fail to see why starting a new thread should cause anybody to be rude in their responses. Its 2016. I think we can let go of much of the 1980's Usenet netiquette.

 

I have allowed "no pencil" logging on some of my caches, and I have lost pens on my way to the cache, and even (gasp!) forgotten to bring a pen with me, yet claimed the find and got no flak from the CO. I would not say that it is common here, but it is certainly something that we understand can happen to anybody.

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First as stated I am going to return and sign the log.

 

According to the rules of geocaching, of which there are only three, according to this: https://www.geocaching.com/guide/ I technically did not violate any rules. The log in question is NOT a logbook, but a very small piece of rolled up paper. The rule in question states: "Write about your find in the cache logbook." There is no logbook to write about the find in.

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First as stated I am going to return and sign the log.

 

According to the rules of geocaching, of which there are only three, according to this: https://www.geocaching.com/guide/ I technically did not violate any rules. The log in question is NOT a logbook, but a very small piece of rolled up paper. The rule in question states: "Write about your find in the cache logbook." There is no logbook to write about the find in.

 

I was on your side up until now. dry.gif

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First as stated I am going to return and sign the log.

 

According to the rules of geocaching, of which there are only three, according to this: https://www.geocaching.com/guide/ I technically did not violate any rules. The log in question is NOT a logbook, but a very small piece of rolled up paper. The rule in question states: "Write about your find in the cache logbook." There is no logbook to write about the find in.

 

I was on your side up until now. dry.gif

 

I only bring this up because people keep citing the rules. Well What rules are they citing? Their own, their version or interpretation of the rules from the geocahce web site or the actual rules as stated on the geocache web site? I did look, within the web site, to see if there is an expansion on the three listed rules, did not find any.

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Micro caches have micro log books, scrolls can be considered books.

Almost everyone who has replied has said in one form or another that what you did was not a big deal, especially since you intend to return.

Ultimately the validity of your find is between you and the cache owner.

As far as giving up the hobby because you didn't get the welcome response you expected in the forums-please see my forum sig.

 

Also keep in mind that 98.52% of all cacher never set foot into this sandbox. YMMV

Edited by wimseyguy
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I only bring this up because people keep citing the rules. Well What rules are they citing? Their own, their version or interpretation of the rules from the geocahce web site or the actual rules as stated on the geocache web site? I did look, within the web site, to see if there is an expansion on the three listed rules, did not find any.

 

Perhaps that is why the game tends to operate more in terms of having guidelines. Groundspeak describes how the game is played and writes that at its simplest level, it requires 8 steps, including "Sign the logbook and return the geocache to its original location. Share your geocaching stories and photos online."

 

It used to be that logbooks were often logbooks, and people took more time to write something at the cache site. Those days are gone. I am not going to write something other than my initials in a nano cache or bison tube log. So common sense prevails.

 

But despite what some people have written about the sanctity of the pen, and always having one, I sometimes find myself without one. Perhaps I was not expecting to come across a cache that day. Perhaps I forgot it in the car and it is several miles on the other side of the lake or river. Perhaps I left it at the last cache or it it fell out on the trail -- friends have commented about finding various things that I have inadvertently lost that way. It happens. In that situation, I have always gone with the leaf or grass smudge -- so far I have never had to use blood. If you want to interpret Groundspeak's words literally, it says to sign the log. It does not specify any particular instrument and a grass leaf is probably as legible as my basic signature.

 

At bottom, people can get caught up in what constitutes a find, a signature, or anything else. But play the game with respect, have fun, and don't let the details get you down.

Edited by geodarts
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First as stated I am going to return and sign the log.

 

According to the rules of geocaching, of which there are only three, according to this: https://www.geocaching.com/guide/ I technically did not violate any rules. The log in question is NOT a logbook, but a very small piece of rolled up paper. The rule in question states: "Write about your find in the cache logbook." There is no logbook to write about the find in.

 

I was on your side up until now. dry.gif

 

I only bring this up because people keep citing the rules. Well What rules are they citing? Their own, their version or interpretation of the rules from the geocahce web site or the actual rules as stated on the geocache web site? I did look, within the web site, to see if there is an expansion on the three listed rules, did not find any.

If you want to be particular about the "logbook" vs "small piece of rolled up paper", then consider this page: Geocaching.com Shop page You'll see that in their "logbook" section are small strips for paper that will be rolled up and placed into micro cache containers.

 

Plenty of cachers in this thread have said it's not a big deal that you didn't have a pen/pencil with you, but you'll lose a lot of support if your reason for not signing the physical log is because it wasn't in a book format.

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I climbed a mountain once for a single cache, a micro. (Yes, I do that.) Oh shoot, no pen. My friend didn't have one either. Tried the key-on-leaf trick, but that didn't work with wet paper.

 

Then a little idea bit me on the arm...

 

A hunting trophy for evidence. Nice! I traveled thru Alberta but it was in Sask that the mosquitoes tried to rob me of all my blood.

Edited by OregonYeti
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I climbed a mountain once for a single cache, a micro. (Yes, I do that.) Oh shoot, no pen. My friend didn't have one either. Tried the key-on-leaf trick, but that didn't work with wet paper.

 

Then a little idea bit me on the arm...

9ff4a8c3-c257-4b1c-98cc-b9e0e270d7dd_l.jpg

 

What would you have done if the insect had not bitten you? Would you have returned later with a working writing implement so your find would not have been deleted?

Edited by SUX_VR_40_Rider
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First as stated I am going to return and sign the log.

 

According to the rules of geocaching, of which there are only three, according to this: https://www.geocaching.com/guide/ I technically did not violate any rules. The log in question is NOT a logbook, but a very small piece of rolled up paper. The rule in question states: "Write about your find in the cache logbook." There is no logbook to write about the find in.

 

I was on your side up until now. dry.gif

 

I only bring this up because people keep citing the rules. Well What rules are they citing? Their own, their version or interpretation of the rules from the geocahce web site or the actual rules as stated on the geocache web site? I did look, within the web site, to see if there is an expansion on the three listed rules, did not find any.

 

Of course they are citing their own interpretation of the rules or guidelines. What else can anybody ever do? But like the Bible or the Constitution (speaking for the U.S.) some interpret it rigidly and some interpret it loosely. That's people for you.

 

No, there is no "expansion", but in the real world, Groundspeak does not make all of the rules. The people do. And most real-life geocachers are more flexible. Groundspeak has had to attempt to nail some things down because of various types of conflicts, but if you go to events, get to know other geocachers, make some friends in the caching community... you're not gonna see the drama that you see here.

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First as stated I am going to return and sign the log.

 

According to the rules of geocaching, of which there are only three, according to this: https://www.geocaching.com/guide/ I technically did not violate any rules. The log in question is NOT a logbook, but a very small piece of rolled up paper. The rule in question states: "Write about your find in the cache logbook." There is no logbook to write about the find in.

 

I was on your side up until now. dry.gif

 

I only bring this up because people keep citing the rules. Well What rules are they citing? Their own, their version or interpretation of the rules from the geocahce web site or the actual rules as stated on the geocache web site? I did look, within the web site, to see if there is an expansion on the three listed rules, did not find any.

 

Of course they are citing their own interpretation of the rules or guidelines. What else can anybody ever do? But like the Bible or the Constitution (speaking for the U.S.) some interpret it rigidly and some interpret it loosely. That's people for you.

 

No, there is no "expansion", but in the real world, Groundspeak does not make all of the rules. The people do. And most real-life geocachers are more flexible. Groundspeak has had to attempt to nail some things down because of various types of conflicts, but if you go to events, get to know other geocachers, make some friends in the caching community... you're not gonna see the drama that you see here.

 

I used to be a rule monger for Dungeons and Dragons in the 1980's, back in the day. Some were black and white and there was no question nor were they open to interpretation. Others were a so called gray area. I was pretty lenient so long as the spirit of the rules were followed.

 

Does Groundspeak only run the forums, the web site and the app or do they operate the geocaching hobby as a whole?

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First as stated I am going to return and sign the log.

 

According to the rules of geocaching, of which there are only three, according to this: https://www.geocaching.com/guide/ I technically did not violate any rules. The log in question is NOT a logbook, but a very small piece of rolled up paper. The rule in question states: "Write about your find in the cache logbook." There is no logbook to write about the find in.

 

I was on your side up until now. dry.gif

 

I only bring this up because people keep citing the rules. Well What rules are they citing? Their own, their version or interpretation of the rules from the geocahce web site or the actual rules as stated on the geocache web site? I did look, within the web site, to see if there is an expansion on the three listed rules, did not find any.

 

Of course they are citing their own interpretation of the rules or guidelines. What else can anybody ever do? But like the Bible or the Constitution (speaking for the U.S.) some interpret it rigidly and some interpret it loosely. That's people for you.

 

No, there is no "expansion", but in the real world, Groundspeak does not make all of the rules. The people do. And most real-life geocachers are more flexible. Groundspeak has had to attempt to nail some things down because of various types of conflicts, but if you go to events, get to know other geocachers, make some friends in the caching community... you're not gonna see the drama that you see here.

 

I used to be a rule monger for Dungeons and Dragons in the 1980's, back in the day. Some were black and white and there was no question nor were they open to interpretation. Others were a so called gray area. I was pretty lenient so long as the spirit of the rules were followed.

 

Does Groundspeak only run the forums, the web site and the app or do they operate the geocaching hobby as a whole?

 

Groundspeak runs the web site and hosts the forums. They also are the ultimate arbiters when it comes to logging disputes and geocache listings on their site. I think they would also like to think that they operate the geocaching hobby as a whole, but that really isn't the case. Geocachers, both the hiders and the finders, ultimately operate independently when it comes to local or regional norms. Once again, I would urge you... no, STRONGLY urge you, to attend some events and get to know the real people behind this hobby.

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I am thinking it is CO discretion whether or not to delete finds logged online if they do not match the signatures in the cache container. I found a cache today where that seems to be the case assuming the CO checks the paper log and compares it to the online logs. I both signed the paper log and logged the find online. Before I signed it today the last time the paper log was signed was April of 2014. Yet there have been several online logs for this cache posted online.

Edited by SUX_VR_40_Rider
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