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New Cache Escalation


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Geocaching 101 Event Cache can't be published because there is an ongoing Family Fitness Day that it is associated with.

That would be an agenda other than just a geocaching event. I don't think an event with an agenda could be published according to guidelines.

It could also be a problem with the non-geocaching event part of the guidelines:

If an event is already organized outside of the geocaching community or it will happen without a Geocaching.com listing, it is likely not an Event Cache. Examples include concerts, fairs, sporting and scouting events.
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Yes, the agenda is to get new cachers to learn about geocaching. I am not sure how you are supposed to advertise to people who are new to geocaching without being attached to something. What other agenda could there be? Family Fitness? Is gc.com against family fitness?

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Yes, the agenda is to get new cachers to learn about geocaching. I am not sure how you are supposed to advertise to people who are new to geocaching without being attached to something.

I may be missing something, but if people are new to geocaching then they won't be finding the event on the geocaching.com website. People that are new to geocaching won't know about geocaching.com in the first place.

 

What other agenda could there be? Family Fitness? Is gc.com against family fitness?

It's not about being 'for' or 'against' any particular agenda. The whole reason to not be associated with any agenda is to avoid assumptions that they are 'for' or 'against' something. If GS publishes an event associated with 1 agenda, then they'd have to publish events for all agendas. Otherwise, someone is going to say that GS is 'against' a specific agenda because they didn't publish an event cache for them but they did for someone else. Your comment kinda proves the point of why the guidelines prohibit 'any' agenda.

 

ETA: Fixed typos.

Edited by noncentric
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Not a problem, I will just remember this next year when I am asked to voluntarily host an event to bring new people into the hobby and to this site. I know this sounds like sour grapes but I just think there could be an exception for geocaching 101 events like there is for CITO events.

 

Also, my comment about "are they against family fitness" only proves the absurdity. Are they against BBQing, hiking, rope climbing trees, kayaking, etc?

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Not a problem, I will just remember this next year when I am asked to voluntarily host an event to bring new people into the hobby and to this site. I know this sounds like sour grapes but I just think there could be an exception for geocaching 101 events like there is for CITO events.

 

Also, my comment about "are they against family fitness" only proves the absurdity. Are they against BBQing, hiking, rope climbing trees, kayaking, etc?

 

Yes, sounds like sour grapes to me. :laughing:

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Not a problem, I will just remember this next year when I am asked to voluntarily host an event to bring new people into the hobby and to this site. I know this sounds like sour grapes but I just think there could be an exception for geocaching 101 events like there is for CITO events.

CITO events are a separate type of event, which is why they may seem like 'exceptions'. Those events help promote geocaching to land managers. There currently is no separate 'type' of event for 101 events, so the only options are regular events (with mega/giga status if big enough) or CITO's. Since these are the only 2 options, then events have to follow the guidelines of those 2 options in order to be published. Too many people think that they should be exceptions.

 

Also, my comment about "are they against family fitness" only proves the absurdity. Are they against BBQing, hiking, rope climbing trees, kayaking, etc?

I'm not seeing the connection here. If there was a pre-existing event (ie, concerts, fairs, sporting and scouting events) with a hiking or kayaking or BBQ'ing agenda, then an associated geocaching event would not be published. No exceptions, no preferences.

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There are plenty of ways to host Geocaching 101 events, just don't try to associate it with a pre-existing event.

 

See here for other Geocaching 101 events happening in the US. Maybe one of these will give you a good idea of what does / doesn't work.

Edited by noncentric
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Geocaching 101 Event Cache can't be published because there is an ongoing Family Fitness Day that it is associated with.

You could simply have a booth, table, etc, for, "An Introduction to Geocaching" to interest folks in the hobby, with no need for an event at all...

 

Odds are that folks very new might not know what to look for, what an event is, or hesitant to attend anyway.

As noncentric said, if they even know what a geocaching.com is. :)

 

A Geocaching 101 event is usually set up for new folks already into the hobby, looking for hints and tips on everything from, "My First Find" to GSAK.

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Not a problem, I will just remember this next year when I am asked to voluntarily host an event to bring new people into the hobby and to this site. I know this sounds like sour grapes but I just think there could be an exception for geocaching 101 events like there is for CITO events.

 

Also, my comment about "are they against family fitness" only proves the absurdity. Are they against BBQing, hiking, rope climbing trees, kayaking, etc?

They are not "against" any of those. They are just not coming out "for" any of them. It's a subtle difference.

 

BTW, there is no exception for CITO events, they (CITO events) are their (GS's) own creation.

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Got it. Like I said, I will know better next year and will not be hosting a geocaching 101 event. Not knowing the minutia of these rules is becoming increasingly frustrating.

 

My point about CITO events is that they apparently can be associated with outside preexisting events and even corporately (not grounspeak) sponsored.

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Yes, the agenda is to get new cachers to learn about geocaching. I am not sure how you are supposed to advertise to people who are new to geocaching without being attached to something. What other agenda could there be? Family Fitness? Is gc.com against family fitness?

I'm pretty confident the issue isn't anything to do with an agenda. The reviewer would have provided more specific guidance, but from what you've told us, it sounds like the issue is related to the part of the guidelines I quoted:

 

If an event is already organized outside of the geocaching community or it will happen without a Geocaching.com listing, it is likely not an Event Cache. Examples include concerts, fairs, sporting and scouting events.

 

I couldn't find the Family Fitness Day in question, but maybe you can tell us more about it. Is it the type of thing where there will be a bunch of booths set up and talks/seminars going on, and the geocaching 101 thing will be at a booth or one of these seminars? If so, then these don't fit the spirit of the Geocaching.com Event type. An "Event" is supposed to be a gathering of geocachers. A booth or talk at an unrelated event isn't a gathering of geocachers, so it wouldn't be eligible to be listed on here as an Event. It could still occur, it just won't be listed on here.

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My point about CITO events is that they apparently can be associated with outside preexisting events and even corporately (not grounspeak) sponsored.

Not in my experience. All of the CITOs I've seen have either been standalone events or associated with a Mega event. The only exception I can think of is Earth Day, but Groundspeak has officially allowed CITOs related to that.

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Got it. Like I said, I will know better next year and will not be hosting a geocaching 101 event. Not knowing the minutia of these rules is becoming increasingly frustrating.

 

My point about CITO events is that they apparently can be associated with outside preexisting events and even corporately (not grounspeak) sponsored.

 

That is not my experience with CITO events. Can you provide an example? :unsure:

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I can think of many, many CITO Events that are done in partnership with a land management agency (like a park district) or a conservation group (like "Citizens for a Clean River"). But I cannot think of a corporate-sponsored CITO Event (like "Coca-Cola Cleanup Day").

 

CITO Events are reviewed under different written guidelines than regular Geocaching Events, so the entire line of reasoning is a red herring in any case.

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Geocaching 101 Event Cache can't be published because there is an ongoing Family Fitness Day that it is associated with.

You could simply have a booth, table, etc, for, "An Introduction to Geocaching" to interest folks in the hobby, with no need for an event at all...

 

Odds are that folks very new might not know what to look for, what an event is, or hesitant to attend anyway.

As noncentric said, if they even know what a geocaching.com is. :)

 

A Geocaching 101 event is usually set up for new folks already into the hobby, looking for hints and tips on everything from, "My First Find" to GSAK.

 

Yeah, this seems to be more in line with some of the outreach that people do where they teach geocaching to school children, scouting groups, camps, etc. Those types of outreach programs aren't listed as geocaching events because they're aimed at bringing non-geocachers into the game, whereas listed events are meant to attract geocachers.

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Got it. Like I said, I will know better next year and will not be hosting a geocaching 101 event. Not knowing the minutia of these rules is becoming increasingly frustrating.

 

My point about CITO events is that they apparently can be associated with outside preexisting events and even corporately (not grounspeak) sponsored.

 

I hear that you are frustrated with trying to 2nd guess the requirements, but I do think that you need to set the CITO argument aside. CITO is one (THE one?) officially sanctioned agenda, and even that takes place only within a CITO event. You would still probably have a tough time posting a regular geocache that tried to get people to pick up trash on their way to the find.

 

I think that its great that you are trying to help, but think that you could stand to slow your breathing down a bit and try to understand what you are being taught here instead of throwing baby out with the bathwater.

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Geocaching 101 Event Cache can't be published because there is an ongoing Family Fitness Day that it is associated with.

Call me skeptical, but most people attending a class of this nature haven't quite built up the interest to bother registering on the site to log an Attended on the Listing page. This seems like it's more for the benefit of the people running the class, and not for the nooby participants.

 

We have a few Park and Rec type activities that give some introductory lessons for Geocaching/GPS usage. None of them have bothered to post an Event on the site.

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I've taught or helped teach a number of Geocaching 101 type classes. None of them have been listed as events.

 

As others pointed out, event caches tend to attract more experienced geocachers, who are not the people who need a Geocaching 101 type class. And the newbies who might be interested in a Geocaching 101 class won't know what an event cache is, so it won't matter to them one way or another; you'll need to publicize the class to them some other way.

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I've taught or helped teach a number of Geocaching 101 type classes. None of them have been listed as events.

Agreed, the flip side is we have held some Geocaching 101 type classes that were geocaching events but that was the only thing going on. They were sort of a lunch and learn kind of event where the park would advertise it for us but if we didn't hold it, it wouldn't be happening. There was no other stand alone event going on.

Edited by ODragon
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Obviously any further discussion is not going to get the cache published. I am aware of that but just to clarify a couple of things.

 

Some of the people who will be attending the event have already signed up for geocaching but they have only found a few hides. Others, are planning on signing up before the event.

 

One of the reasons I thought about having an event is because I remembered that one of the top hiders had the highest numbers because they apparently held like 1000 geocaching events. (I don't know if this is actually true)

 

Lastly, the CITO event I mentioned was O'dragon's cache of the week GC60W3J.

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Obviously any further discussion is not going to get the cache published. I am aware of that but just to clarify a couple of things.

 

Some of the people who will be attending the event have already signed up for geocaching but they have only found a few hides. Others, are planning on signing up before the event.

 

One of the reasons I thought about having an event is because I remembered that one of the top hiders had the highest numbers because they apparently held like 1000 geocaching events. (I don't know if this is actually true)

 

Lastly, the CITO event I mentioned was O'dragon's cache of the week GC60W3J.

 

Looks like someone slipped a corporate mention into the cache listing.

 

It's important to understand that:

 

1. That may have been changed after the listing was published. Reviewers don't need to approve cache page edits.

 

2. There is a slim possibility that special permission was granted for that mention.

 

3. You should always refer to the guidelines for your own listings. Follow the guidelines, don't follow what you think other cachers have done. The guidelines are very clear when they state: Please be advised that there is no precedent for placing geocaches.

Edited by narcissa
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1. That may have been changed after the listing was published. Reviewers don't need to approve cache page edits.

 

2. There is a slim possibility that special permission was granted for that mention.

1. It was not changed after publication, that goes against the guidelines.

 

2. Permission was given in year 1, reconfirmed in year 2. This is year 4.

 

FWIW, HQ liked the idea of it and how well we did that it was the featured cache of the week (first CITO featured) on the GC blog and lackeys are emulating it on May 15th.

Edited by ODragon
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1. That may have been changed after the listing was published. Reviewers don't need to approve cache page edits.

 

2. There is a slim possibility that special permission was granted for that mention.

1. It was not changed after publication, that goes against the guidelines.

 

2. Permission was given in year 1, reconfirmed in year 2. This is year 4.

 

FWIW, HQ liked the idea of it and how well we did that it was the featured cache of the week (first CITO featured) on the GC blog and lackeys are emulating it on May 15th.

 

Well there you go.

 

Your explanation really underscores why it's so important for people to refer directly to the cache placement guidelines instead of assuming they can do something because someone else did.

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One of the reasons I thought about having an event is because I remembered that one of the top hiders had the highest numbers because they apparently held like 1000 geocaching events. (I don't know if this is actually true)

 

 

I don't understand your rationale, are you looking for easy ways to bump up your numbers?

 

Here are some stats for the cacher with the most finds:

Alamogul:

finds: 141,787

Events hosted: 22 of which 2 were CITO events

Events attended: 502 (0.35% of his finds)

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One of the reasons I thought about having an event is because I remembered that one of the top hiders had the highest numbers because they apparently held like 1000 geocaching events. (I don't know if this is actually true)

 

 

I don't understand your rationale, are you looking for easy ways to bump up your numbers?

 

Here are some stats for the cacher with the most finds:

Alamogul:

finds: 141,787

Events hosted: 22 of which 2 were CITO events

Events attended: 502 (0.35% of his finds)

Actually, the OP mentioned top Hider, not top Finder.

But back on topic, it does indeed sound like the OP was motivated to host an event for the numbers, so I guess family fitness isn't the only important thing here. Numbers is an entirely different 'agenda'.

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Your explanation really underscores why it's so important for people to refer directly to the cache placement guidelines instead of assuming they can do something because someone else did.

Commercial team-up aside, CITOs have different guidelines when it comes to outside events vs. those of a regular event. Reading the correct guideline also helps.

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Check out my recent finds if you think I am concerned about the numbers.

 

The reason I said it was for a friend was because I don't speak for the entire group. I didn't want my comments to be pushed towards them. And really does it matter?

 

Haven't we all been to events as newer geocachers and learned tons from experienced geocachers? So, post event --> get experienced geocachers there --> have new geocachers learn from them. That is the ulterior motive that some of you seem to be looking for.

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Check out my recent finds if you think I am concerned about the numbers.

 

The reason I said it was for a friend was because I don't speak for the entire group. I didn't want my comments to be pushed towards them. And really does it matter?

 

Haven't we all been to events as newer geocachers and learned tons from experienced geocachers? So, post event --> get experienced geocachers there --> have new geocachers learn from them. That is the ulterior motive that some of you seem to be looking for.

 

You can team up with other geocachers to host a really great workshop to introduce the game to new people. There's nothing wrong with what you are trying to do. It just isn't an event.

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Check out my recent finds if you think I am concerned about the numbers.

 

The reason I said it was for a friend was because I don't speak for the entire group. I didn't want my comments to be pushed towards them. And really does it matter?

 

Haven't we all been to events as newer geocachers and learned tons from experienced geocachers? So, post event --> get experienced geocachers there --> have new geocachers learn from them. That is the ulterior motive that some of you seem to be looking for.

 

You can team up with other geocachers to host a really great workshop to introduce the game to new people. There's nothing wrong with what you are trying to do. It just isn't an event.

 

It certainly could be an event, it just can't be part of some non-geocaching event. It could be listed on GS and the event organizer could publicize it with flyers to attract non-geocachers. Local cachers could also invite friends/relatives to come to the event and see what this "geocaching" thing is all about. I have been an instructor at an event like this.

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Check out my recent finds if you think I am concerned about the numbers.

 

The reason I said it was for a friend was because I don't speak for the entire group. I didn't want my comments to be pushed towards them. And really does it matter?

 

Haven't we all been to events as newer geocachers and learned tons from experienced geocachers? So, post event --> get experienced geocachers there --> have new geocachers learn from them. That is the ulterior motive that some of you seem to be looking for.

 

You can team up with other geocachers to host a really great workshop to introduce the game to new people. There's nothing wrong with what you are trying to do. It just isn't an event.

 

It certainly could be an event, it just can't be part of some non-geocaching event. It could be listed on GS and the event organizer could publicize it with flyers to attract non-geocachers. Local cachers could also invite friends/relatives to come to the event and see what this "geocaching" thing is all about. I have been an instructor at an event like this.

 

Yes, independently this could be an event but he is trying to leverage this family fitness thing to get people interested in the game. Just because it can't be an event doesn't mean it's a bad idea. It just isn't an event.

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Based on this thread, this event wouldn't get published: http://coord.info/GC6CDDG There was a workshop that certain geocachers decided to have an event at.

 

With that said, I don't understand why you can't have a geocaching event at a larger event. If there is a expo that encourages kids to get outside, why can't you have a geocaching event there to show how diverse and fun geocaching can be? Yes, people will say "You can have a booth" but having one person talk about geocaching at a booth isn't that same as being able to demonstrate geocaching.

 

I do understand the concern of appearing to endorse or be associated with an event, but really it is just promoting geocaching at an larger venue.

 

Here is one http://coord.info/GC6D5YA that states it is happening because of a larger event.

 

And then there was the whole pub crawl at the last Block Party.

Edited by igator210
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Based on this thread, this event wouldn't get published: http://coord.info/GC6CDDG There was a workshop that certain geocachers decided to have an event at.

 

With that said, I don't understand why you can't have at geocaching event at a larger event. If there is a expo that encourages kids to get outside, why can't you have a geocaching event there to show how diverse and fun geocaching can be? Yes, people will say "You can have a booth" but having one person talk about geocaching at a booth isn't that same as being able to demonstrate geocaching.

 

I do understand the concern of appearing to endorse or be associated with an event, but really is just promoting geocaching at an larger venue.

I agree to a point. Geocaching would need to be an integral portion of the event. Having an event during a race wouldn't qualify. The race has nothing to do with geocaching. But, if a local park had an event to show off all the activities that could be done in the park, and assuming that the park was geocaching friendly, having a geocaching event makes a lot of sense. Why couldn't leader for a group of Boy Scouts working on their Geocaching Merit Badge hold a geocaching event? Likewise with 4-H. Both of these organizations promote geocaching. It seems like allowing geocaching events at larger events put on by organizations that directly support geocaching is only fair.

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Based on this thread, this event wouldn't get published: http://coord.info/GC6CDDG There was a workshop that certain geocachers decided to have an event at.

 

With that said, I don't understand why you can't have a geocaching event at a larger event. If there is a expo that encourages kids to get outside, why can't you have a geocaching event there to show how diverse and fun geocaching can be? Yes, people will say "You can have a booth" but having one person talk about geocaching at a booth isn't that same as being able to demonstrate geocaching.

 

I do understand the concern of appearing to endorse or be associated with an event, but really it is just promoting geocaching at an larger venue.

 

Here is one http://coord.info/GC6D5YA that states it is happening because of a larger event.

 

And then there was the whole pub crawl at the last Block Party.

 

Nothing is stopping anyone from coordinating workshops and demos and outreach programs in the community. This is done successfully by cachers all the time. These things just don't qualify as events.

 

Happily, there are plenty of cachers willing to demonstrate this game even if they don't get a smiley just for showing up.

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Based on this thread, this event wouldn't get published: http://coord.info/GC6CDDG There was a workshop that certain geocachers decided to have an event at.

 

With that said, I don't understand why you can't have at geocaching event at a larger event. If there is a expo that encourages kids to get outside, why can't you have a geocaching event there to show how diverse and fun geocaching can be? Yes, people will say "You can have a booth" but having one person talk about geocaching at a booth isn't that same as being able to demonstrate geocaching.

 

I do understand the concern of appearing to endorse or be associated with an event, but really is just promoting geocaching at an larger venue.

I agree to a point. Geocaching would need to be an integral portion of the event. Having an event during a race wouldn't qualify. The race has nothing to do with geocaching. But, if a local park had an event to show off all the activities that could be done in the park, and assuming that the park was geocaching friendly, having a geocaching event makes a lot of sense. Why couldn't leader for a group of Boy Scouts working on their Geocaching Merit Badge hold a geocaching event? Likewise with 4-H. Both of these organizations promote geocaching. It seems like allowing geocaching events at larger events put on by organizations that directly support geocaching is only fair.

 

It opens a can of worms to start affiliating with organizations like that. Where do you draw the line? Is it okay to have a geocaching event during my religious retreat? Is it okay to have a geocaching event tied to my political party convention? Is it okay for my restaurant to create geocaching events to drive business?

 

And would it actually be wise for Scouts or 4-H to do something like that? I coach youth baseball and the league doesn't let anyone into the dugout without a police check - most children's activities are like this here. I can't imagine the Scouts approving a scenario where anonymous internet strangers are openly invited to an event.

Edited by narcissa
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Based on this thread, this event wouldn't get published: http://coord.info/GC6CDDG There was a workshop that certain geocachers decided to have an event at.

 

With that said, I don't understand why you can't have at geocaching event at a larger event. If there is a expo that encourages kids to get outside, why can't you have a geocaching event there to show how diverse and fun geocaching can be? Yes, people will say "You can have a booth" but having one person talk about geocaching at a booth isn't that same as being able to demonstrate geocaching.

 

I do understand the concern of appearing to endorse or be associated with an event, but really is just promoting geocaching at an larger venue.

I agree to a point. Geocaching would need to be an integral portion of the event. Having an event during a race wouldn't qualify. The race has nothing to do with geocaching. But, if a local park had an event to show off all the activities that could be done in the park, and assuming that the park was geocaching friendly, having a geocaching event makes a lot of sense. Why couldn't leader for a group of Boy Scouts working on their Geocaching Merit Badge hold a geocaching event? Likewise with 4-H. Both of these organizations promote geocaching. It seems like allowing geocaching events at larger events put on by organizations that directly support geocaching is only fair.

 

It opens a can of worms to start affiliating with organizations like that. Where do you draw the line? Is it okay to have a geocaching event during my religious retreat? Is it okay to have a geocaching event tied to my political party convention? Is it okay for my restaurant to create geocaching events to drive business?

 

And would it actually be wise for Scouts or 4-H to do something like that? I coach youth baseball and the league doesn't let anyone into the dugout without a police check - most children's activities are like this here. I can't imagine the Scouts approving a scenario where anonymous internet strangers are openly invited to an event.

 

As I said, I agree to a point. What does your religious retreat have to do with geocaching, or your political party? Neither of these have an integral geocaching component.

 

But, Boy Scouts (I was a leader), and 4-H (I am a leader), have embraced geocaching as one of many activities that they promote. Look up the supplemental training for leaders on geocaching, and on the Cache to Eagle notes. It advocates creating caches with a Boy Scout theme, and with creating CITO events. It advocates using geocaching events as a means to recruitment. Sounds like an agenda to me. (Not that I mind, I still think Boy Scouts is a good organization, even though I can't stand the leadership at this point in time.)

 

As for inviting anonymous strangers to an event, it happens all the time. Ever been to a county fair that has farm animals? Ours does. The 4-H exhibits are one big series of 4-H events, and the public is invited. The key is control of the event. My Boy Scout knowledge is a bit weaker, but last I knew, a scout is not allowed to go see a merit badge instructor without a second scout along. Again, control the situation. As a merit badge instructor, I can arrange for tours, activities, and even guest speakers. Because these organizations have so much interaction with the public on a wide variety of levels, they have policies and procedures in place to manage the risk caused by that public interaction.

 

I was a soccer coach and head referee at our local soccer club. The local soccer club has a singular purpose, teach kids how to play soccer. Not quite the same level of public interaction. But even there, we had controls in place. The teams were on one side of the pitch, and the public on the other side. With your youth baseball, it's the same. You are controlling the public interaction by isolating the children from the public by enforcing the league rules on admittance to the dugout.

 

All of my leadership positions required background checks. Today, parent's are insisting on it. And, it is required by law in my state for all non-profit organizations that interact with children.

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Based on this thread, this event wouldn't get published: http://coord.info/GC6CDDG There was a workshop that certain geocachers decided to have an event at.

 

With that said, I don't understand why you can't have at geocaching event at a larger event. If there is a expo that encourages kids to get outside, why can't you have a geocaching event there to show how diverse and fun geocaching can be? Yes, people will say "You can have a booth" but having one person talk about geocaching at a booth isn't that same as being able to demonstrate geocaching.

 

I do understand the concern of appearing to endorse or be associated with an event, but really is just promoting geocaching at an larger venue.

I agree to a point. Geocaching would need to be an integral portion of the event. Having an event during a race wouldn't qualify. The race has nothing to do with geocaching. But, if a local park had an event to show off all the activities that could be done in the park, and assuming that the park was geocaching friendly, having a geocaching event makes a lot of sense. Why couldn't leader for a group of Boy Scouts working on their Geocaching Merit Badge hold a geocaching event? Likewise with 4-H. Both of these organizations promote geocaching. It seems like allowing geocaching events at larger events put on by organizations that directly support geocaching is only fair.

 

It opens a can of worms to start affiliating with organizations like that. Where do you draw the line? Is it okay to have a geocaching event during my religious retreat? Is it okay to have a geocaching event tied to my political party convention? Is it okay for my restaurant to create geocaching events to drive business?

 

And would it actually be wise for Scouts or 4-H to do something like that? I coach youth baseball and the league doesn't let anyone into the dugout without a police check - most children's activities are like this here. I can't imagine the Scouts approving a scenario where anonymous internet strangers are openly invited to an event.

 

As I said, I agree to a point. What does your religious retreat have to do with geocaching, or your political party? Neither of these have an integral geocaching component.

 

But, Boy Scouts (I was a leader), and 4-H (I am a leader), have embraced geocaching as one of many activities that they promote. Look up the supplemental training for leaders on geocaching, and on the Cache to Eagle notes. It advocates creating caches with a Boy Scout theme, and with creating CITO events. It advocates using geocaching events as a means to recruitment. Sounds like an agenda to me. (Not that I mind, I still think Boy Scouts is a good organization, even though I can't stand the leadership at this point in time.)

 

As for inviting anonymous strangers to an event, it happens all the time. Ever been to a county fair that has farm animals? Ours does. The 4-H exhibits are one big series of 4-H events, and the public is invited. The key is control of the event. My Boy Scout knowledge is a bit weaker, but last I knew, a scout is not allowed to go see a merit badge instructor without a second scout along. Again, control the situation. As a merit badge instructor, I can arrange for tours, activities, and even guest speakers. Because these organizations have so much interaction with the public on a wide variety of levels, they have policies and procedures in place to manage the risk caused by that public interaction.

 

I was a soccer coach and head referee at our local soccer club. The local soccer club has a singular purpose, teach kids how to play soccer. Not quite the same level of public interaction. But even there, we had controls in place. The teams were on one side of the pitch, and the public on the other side. With your youth baseball, it's the same. You are controlling the public interaction by isolating the children from the public by enforcing the league rules on admittance to the dugout.

 

All of my leadership positions required background checks. Today, parent's are insisting on it. And, it is required by law in my state for all non-profit organizations that interact with children.

 

It is possible to incorporate geocaching into those things. Lots of organizations use geocaching for team building. That's wonderful, but it doesn't mean it's a great idea to make those things into official geocaching events.

 

I see very little difference between a church youth group and a Scouts group. Is the church group okay if Scouts are okay? Who decides?

 

We all like to think that our favourite organizations and causes are good and non-controversial, but the reality is, they aren't. Reviewers don't need the burden of trying to decide which ones are okay and which ones aren't. That's just messy.

 

I really don't know why some geocachers are so upset when something doesn't qualify as an event. It isn't a judgment on the validity of what you are doing. It's just not meeting the criteria for events.

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If I host and Ice Cream event, what does that really have to do with geocaching? Its just a gathering of local geocachers with the intent of getting to know each other.

 

But, if there is a larger event that might draw people on its own (a free concert put on by the city, an outdoor expo to celebrate nature, a safety seminar about the local wildlife, etc), having an event is frowned upon?

 

The argument that "well, you can still get together" is perfectly acceptable, if there was a mailing list for everyone in the area. I'm not aware of such a list. The only way to reach everyone is to make an event.

 

I guess I'm just used to being part of an organization that encourages events at other events. It build comradery. It promotes the organizations. And it exposes itself to people that might not have run across it by other means.

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If I host and Ice Cream event, what does that really have to do with geocaching? Its just a gathering of local geocachers with the intent of getting to know each other.

 

But, if there is a larger event that might draw people on its own (a free concert put on by the city, an outdoor expo to celebrate nature, a safety seminar about the local wildlife, etc), having an event is frowned upon?

 

The argument that "well, you can still get together" is perfectly acceptable, if there was a mailing list for everyone in the area. I'm not aware of such a list. The only way to reach everyone is to make an event.

 

I guess I'm just used to being part of an organization that encourages events at other events. It build comradery. It promotes the organizations. And it exposes itself to people that might not have run across it by other means.

 

Our area has a mailing list and a Facebook group for geocachers. People often use both tools when they want to get a group of geocachers together for community outreach.

 

Do you really need everyone to show up if you're just trying to have a geocaching presence in the community? Many people just show up to events to socialize and log the find. If you're genuinely trying to reach out to the community it's probably better to get a smaller group of geocachers to help you create some sort of curriculum or presentation and use that as an outreach tool.

 

Nobody is frowning on community outreach. It's just not within the guidelines for a geocaching event. Having an event declined isn't a slap on the wrist or a judgment of what you're doing. It just means it doesn't meet the criteria for an event.

 

If you really believe that the criteria for geocaching events needs to change, you should communicate that directly to Groundspeak. Arguing with people because you don't like the clearly stated guidelines won't change the guidelines.

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Your explanation really underscores why it's so important for people to refer directly to the cache placement guidelines instead of assuming they can do something because someone else did.

Commercial team-up aside, CITOs have different guidelines when it comes to outside events vs. those of a regular event. Reading the correct guideline also helps.

 

Something I didn't know is that they do permit regular event listings to have sponsors noted without logos. Learn something new every day!

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If I host and Ice Cream event, what does that really have to do with geocaching? Its just a gathering of local geocachers with the intent of getting to know each other.

 

But, if there is a larger event that might draw people on its own (a free concert put on by the city, an outdoor expo to celebrate nature, a safety seminar about the local wildlife, etc), having an event is frowned upon?

 

The argument that "well, you can still get together" is perfectly acceptable, if there was a mailing list for everyone in the area. I'm not aware of such a list. The only way to reach everyone is to make an event.

 

I guess I'm just used to being part of an organization that encourages events at other events. It build comradery. It promotes the organizations. And it exposes itself to people that might not have run across it by other means.

 

Earlier versions of the guidelines stated that events were 'for geocachers and by geocachers'. I still view them this way. They are a vehicle to facilitate a sense of community among cachers, not a means to recruit new converts. Events do not have to be 'about geocaching'. One of the best ones I hosted was at a bowling alley. A nearby group is hosting a 4th? annual Geo-Putt event. If people spend time caching together before and after events that's a bonus. But the focus of the event should be socializing not recruiting.

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It has obviously been proven that reviewers can expand their approval powers for CITO events so why not obvious events tied to other events.

 

In my scenario, it is a Township sponsored family fitness day. I would bet that this kind of event would be so far from crossing any geocachers "line" that it wouldn't be funny. (Still not fishing for my cache to get listed. That boat has obviously sailed.)

 

We have drinking events, dangerous events, etc.

 

On a separate note, I don't think it fair to insinuate that people are whining, farming for smileys, or just plain dumb because they don't understand a rule and want to have a discussion about it. Please take off your fake forum muscles.

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