Jump to content

lockpicking geocache


jg425
Followers 2

Recommended Posts

Those are nice containers, but I'm not sure how many geocachers can use a lock pick of have burglary tools as part of their TOTT. :rolleyes:

 

Looks like here in Virginia posession of picks can be considered evidence of criminal intent.

 

They will.

 

There was a time when few, if any, of our local cachers carried long poles with them. Now that is commonplace.

Link to comment

There used to be a multi around here where you had to get a key (the keys floated around from cache to cache, or cacher to cacher), use it to retrieve a second key that was in a box, and then use that key to open the final cache.

 

It doesn't work for lock-picking, but it would be a way to use these cool containers.

 

I guess for lock-picking, you could provide the tools for lock-picking and make it a remote cache like someone else said. It's not foolproof but it would probably reduce the chance that someone will do something terrible to it.

 

There was one around here that used TWO keys, each one a travel bug, to open the ammo box. The problem came when cachers would take the TBs out of the area. Fun while it lasted, though.

Link to comment

So...maybe a silly question...

When it says "state must prove criminal intent"...and the lock and cache are technically someone else's property...well, could the case be made for criminal intent?

 

But then I guess that would mean all geocachers are criminals by the fact that we are all opening and invading other peoples' property... :ph34r:

 

I am not a lawyer, (but I'll bet some of you are!) but I suspect that that would only be used when the police had suspicion of burglary already and needed something to make it stick. I seriously doubt you would be charged if you explained the situation clearly.

Link to comment

Your containers are fabulous!

 

Somehow reminded of the time I placed a plastic film can, with an actual roll of film as the log, which needed to be unrolled to sign the log. Then please roll the film back into the film can. There was one cacher in particular who could not figure out how to roll the film back into the film can. And it was not like he was some young whipper snapper who had never seen an actual roll of film. He is older than me, and I am pretty old.

 

So your great idea probably would be lost on some of the folks around here. I hope it works for you.

 

Cache Happy

Link to comment

This discussion has reminded me that I may need to jam the locks on some of my geocaches with super glue to keep them from being picked. :laughing:

 

Any of you lock picking enthusiasts know of a better way to jam a lock to prevent it from being picked? :anibad:

 

Any glue would muck things up enough to discourage picking, but if someone is willing to pick a lock without permission, there are easier ways to get past it... Like a rock, bolt cutters, or prybar.

Link to comment

So...maybe a silly question...

When it says "state must prove criminal intent"...and the lock and cache are technically someone else's property...well, could the case be made for criminal intent?

 

But then I guess that would mean all geocachers are criminals by the fact that we are all opening and invading other peoples' property... :ph34r:

 

Because I am giving permission to open the lock, and that is the entire purpose for it, criminal intent wouldn't apply. That is also why I designed stickers specifically stating that it was a lockpicking cache.

 

Apologies in advance if this is already asked/answered but this thread is TLDR.

Do you plan to supply the tools for these caches hidden at a nearby Additional Waypoint? Or are you expecting seekers to come prepared with their own set? It's a bit more specialized than a Phillips head screwdriver that is found on most multitools.

Link to comment

So...maybe a silly question...

When it says "state must prove criminal intent"...and the lock and cache are technically someone else's property...well, could the case be made for criminal intent?

 

I have no idea, but personally I would rather not play the game in a manner where I might have to explain what I am doing in court.

 

You can count me out too if I have to possess burglary tools to find a geocache. :(

 

I am more likely to own a 60' ladder than I am a set of burglary tools.

Link to comment

Combination locks are surely a better bet? Numbers can be made available in a host of ways as per other multis / puzzles.

 

But that's not the point. He's setting a geocache that requires lock picking to get in and with the correct difficulty level there is nothing wrong with that.

 

So what if you go out and find out you can't get it there and then? Go home, watch some YouTube videos, drop into bunnings and get a cheap lock to practice on. Then once you're confidant go back, crack the lock and sign the log feeling proud that you've taken on a challenge (a real one) and beaten it, learning a new skill along the way.

 

Some people need to slow down their caching and remember that a) you don't always have to get every cache and B) is about more than jumping out of the car, undoing another 2 fruits bottle in the obvious hole and moving on to the next one.

Link to comment

Combination locks are surely a better bet? Numbers can be made available in a host of ways as per other multis / puzzles.

 

But that's not the point. He's setting a geocache that requires lock picking to get in and with the correct difficulty level there is nothing wrong with that.

 

 

I once found a 2 part multi, in the first stage was about 100 platic vials each containing a piece of paper, one of them had the combination for the lock on the second stage, I couldn't face the prospect of going through them all so I just picked the combination lock in about 30 seconds :rolleyes:

Link to comment

This discussion has reminded me that I may need to jam the locks on some of my geocaches with super glue to keep them from being picked. :laughing:

 

Any of you lock picking enthusiasts know of a better way to jam a lock to prevent it from being picked? :anibad:

 

Sure, try to drill it open. That will mess up the mechanism propperly.

Or just weld it :P

Link to comment

Combination locks are surely a better bet? Numbers can be made available in a host of ways as per other multis / puzzles.

 

But that's not the point. He's setting a geocache that requires lock picking to get in and with the correct difficulty level there is nothing wrong with that.

 

So what if you go out and find out you can't get it there and then? Go home, watch some YouTube videos, drop into bunnings and get a cheap lock to practice on. Then once you're confidant go back, crack the lock and sign the log feeling proud that you've taken on a challenge (a real one) and beaten it, learning a new skill along the way.

 

Some people need to slow down their caching and remember that a) you don't always have to get every cache and B) is about more than jumping out of the car, undoing another 2 fruits bottle in the obvious hole and moving on to the next one.

 

That's EXACTLY what I was going for!

Link to comment

This is what I love about this hobby. Have only been at it for a couple months now and I’m always learning new skill sets.

 

After reading this thread I watched a couple u-tube videos, made up some quick lock picking tools form a paper clip for a rack and side of my old reading glasses bent for a torque bar. Was able to pick a master padlock I had in about 15 minutes.

 

Love this idea. Think I might try making one of these to place in field.

Link to comment
If you are not a locksmith or cop why the need for lock picking tools.
Well, the last time I made and used a set of lockpicks, I was rekeying all the locks in my home to work with the same key. It turns out that the kits you can buy at the hardware store for rekeying locks assume that you have the key. One of the locks didn't have a key, so I had to pick the lock before I could rekey it.

 

And at the home before that, I did the same thing. My landlords loved it. They gave me a handful of keys (one for each lock, with one missing), and I rekeyed all the locks and sent them a single key that worked for all the locks.

 

And there were a couple padlocks, just because picking them was faster and cheaper than cutting them.

 

And of course, there were locks that I picked just for fun, when I was first learning.

Link to comment

OK, what type of cache do you all think I should list this as? Mystery or traditional?

 

In Germany, there are many listed both ways. I've included field puzzle attribute, as well as tools required, as well as being clear that they will need to bring their own lockpicks.

Edited by jg425
Link to comment

It would be great if you could do a series of learning caches. I saw it done with a puzzle series, was something like puzzles 101, were they teach you to solve different types of puzzles with examples then you solve the cache. If you could do the same with tutorials on how to use the tools and lock picking basics. Anyone looking at the cache page would definitely know what was expected to open cache.

Link to comment

OK, what type of cache do you all think I should list this as? Mystery or traditional?

 

In Germany, there are many listed both ways. I've included field puzzle attribute, as well as tools required, as well as being clear that they will need to bring their own lockpicks.

 

Mystery, if only for your own sanity. Traditional with field puzzle will just invite abuse from people who don't read cache pages.

Link to comment

OK, what type of cache do you all think I should list this as? Mystery or traditional?

 

In Germany, there are many listed both ways. I've included field puzzle attribute, as well as tools required, as well as being clear that they will need to bring their own lockpicks.

 

I'll stick with what I said in post #20:

I'd suggest listing such a cache as a Mystery type. This should increase the likelihood that cachers will read the cache page first.

 

If listed as a Traditional with Field Puzzle attribute, then you'll likely get a lot of cachers that don't understand it's a puzzle and they'll just try to force their way into it. Keep in mind that most (all?) GPSr's do not display attributes.

Link to comment

It would be great if you could do a series of learning caches. I saw it done with a puzzle series, was something like puzzles 101, were they teach you to solve different types of puzzles with examples then you solve the cache. If you could do the same with tutorials on how to use the tools and lock picking basics. Anyone looking at the cache page would definitely know what was expected to open cache.

 

This is a great idea, I was thinking of providing each cache in my series with a progressively more challenging lock... Possibly even starting with 1 pin, then 2,3,4,then security pins, and so on. I think I could easily make and link to a YouTube video on how to get through each step. Nothing works better than practice though.

 

I ran out of locks to pick, so I have to save up to purchase ones that are much more difficult. It would be fun to be able to try someone else's set, especially "in the wild" and not at home on a comfortable couch.

Link to comment

OK, what type of cache do you all think I should list this as? Mystery or traditional?

 

In Germany, there are many listed both ways. I've included field puzzle attribute, as well as tools required, as well as being clear that they will need to bring their own lockpicks.

 

Mystery, if only for your own sanity. Traditional with field puzzle will just invite abuse from people who don't read cache pages.

 

+1

Link to comment

Combination locks are surely a better bet? Numbers can be made available in a host of ways as per other multis / puzzles.

 

But that's not the point. He's setting a geocache that requires lock picking to get in and with the correct difficulty level there is nothing wrong with that.

 

So what if you go out and find out you can't get it there and then? Go home, watch some YouTube videos, drop into bunnings and get a cheap lock to practice on. Then once you're confidant go back, crack the lock and sign the log feeling proud that you've taken on a challenge (a real one) and beaten it, learning a new skill along the way.

 

Some people need to slow down their caching and remember that a) you don't always have to get every cache and B) is about more than jumping out of the car, undoing another 2 fruits bottle in the obvious hole and moving on to the next one.

 

I'll confess to recently watching a YouTube video on my phone at GZ to work out how to open the field puzzle (which had a trade name on the side)!

 

Last night I placed two canisters with 3-digit combination padlocks on. The combination for cache 2 is in cache 1. The combination for cache 1 uses the same decode as the puzzle. As with a lot of my caches, I'm wondering if they will be loved or hated. Time will tell if the padlocks stand the test of time. I'm not too worried about muggles though (willow trees in depths of hedgerows in the middle of nowhere...)

Link to comment

OK, what type of cache do you all think I should list this as? Mystery or traditional?

 

In Germany, there are many listed both ways. I've included field puzzle attribute, as well as tools required, as well as being clear that they will need to bring their own lockpicks.

 

Mystery, if only for your own sanity. Traditional with field puzzle will just invite abuse from people who don't read cache pages.

I´d list it as a Traditional, since there is nothing to solve in advance to the search and the cache is located at the given coordiantes. It´s just harder to get to logbook. A D5 rating would be appropriate. And a D5 rating makes people reading the cache discription ;)

Link to comment

OK, what type of cache do you all think I should list this as? Mystery or traditional?

 

In Germany, there are many listed both ways. I've included field puzzle attribute, as well as tools required, as well as being clear that they will need to bring their own lockpicks.

 

Mystery, if only for your own sanity. Traditional with field puzzle will just invite abuse from people who don't read cache pages.

I´d list it as a Traditional, since there is nothing to solve in advance to the search and the cache is located at the given coordiantes. It´s just harder to get to logbook. A D5 rating would be appropriate. And a D5 rating makes people reading the cache discription ;)

 

In an ideal world, this would suffice, but making it a Traditional is a good way to ensure that someone very quickly resorts to brute force to break the cache open instead of picking the lock as intended. That's how it goes.

Link to comment

.....That's how it goes.

No, it´s not.

I have one lockpicking geocache listed by my self and I have found several others. None of them was ever opened by brute force.

 

It have to be obvious whats to do, it has to be clearly described, and it has to be hard to destroy it.

Some cachers might overpace when they don´t get to log real quick. But are there realy cahers out there in your bad bad world, taking the decission to destroy a cache by full intention, using tools or stuff??? I don´t think so. And if so, one of a thousand or so came along. And replacing a cacher after a thousand or so founds wount hurt ;)

Link to comment

.....That's how it goes.

No, it´s not.

I have one lockpicking geocache listed by my self and I have found several others. None of them was ever opened by brute force.

 

It have to be obvious whats to do, it has to be clearly described, and it has to be hard to destroy it.

Some cachers might overpace when they don´t get to log real quick. But are there realy cahers out there in your bad bad world, taking the decission to destroy a cache by full intention, using tools or stuff??? I don´t think so. And if so, one of a thousand or so came along. And replacing a cacher after a thousand or so founds wount hurt ;)

Well, I think cachers in your part of the world might be different from cachers in the OP's part of the world. I'm glad to see the OP decided to go with Mystery/Unknown.

Link to comment

Saw a few notification emails come through this morning and saw the subject line of one said "Lockpicking". I thought, what a coincidence. Then I opened the email and saw that it was the OP's cache. I hadn't even realized that the OP was in my neck of the woods. The "425" in the username makes sense now.

 

Anyway, it looks like there is already some commentary on the cache page and hopefully nobody actually brings boltcutters. :o

Link to comment

.....That's how it goes.

No, it´s not.

I have one lockpicking geocache listed by my self and I have found several others. None of them was ever opened by brute force.

 

It have to be obvious whats to do, it has to be clearly described, and it has to be hard to destroy it.

Some cachers might overpace when they don´t get to log real quick. But are there realy cahers out there in your bad bad world, taking the decission to destroy a cache by full intention, using tools or stuff??? I don´t think so. And if so, one of a thousand or so came along. And replacing a cacher after a thousand or so founds wount hurt ;)

 

Sounds like your area is quite different. Around here it would be damaged or forced open pretty quickly.

Link to comment

Thanks for everyone's input, I am excited to see how it goes!

 

GC6G7F0

Well, I was first to DNF. I was looking forward to try this series. Well, I keep watching.

 

Trying to contact my reviewer to get the coordinates updated.

 

47.480832,-122.198124

 

Sorry Jester!

Link to comment

I know a local cacher that has a cache where it's locked and up in a tree. You have to find the key up in the tree too. Someone used a bolt cutter opened the cache and then replaced the lock with new one with the key nearby.

One of the first caches I placed had all its camo destroyed by the first finders. Due to such examples of Scorched Earth Geocaching by local finders, I have to seriously engineer my caches for contingencies. Bolt cutters may be one of them. It prevents some fun but not bullet-proof caches from being placed.

 

The cache posted a while ago (GC4899B), as an example of one that has finds and "no issues", has logs worth reading. No bolt cutters, but I saw more than once where finders had to "add oil". I was surprised to see so many pick the locks without issue. I would skip such a cache just because I hate ruining caches, and I'd either get pieces of paper clip jammed in it (oh yeah, I read that it's impossible to do that, what a relief :rolleyes:), or I'd get oil all over the place, or whatever. If I made it to the cache at all. I'm a LEO magnet. Sure, I can tell the judge I had oil and lockpicks for Geocaching, and he'll be OK with that. Or I can avoid that situation entirely, and not get arrested. I shall ponder the options.

Edited by kunarion
Link to comment

Thanks for everyone's input, I am excited to see how it goes!

 

GC6G7F0

Well, I was first to DNF. I was looking forward to try this series. Well, I keep watching.

 

Trying to contact my reviewer to get the coordinates updated.

 

47.480832,-122.198124

 

Sorry Jester!

It's part of the FTF game. You can add an additonal wapoint of the final location until the reviewer gets it fixed.

 

Found it tonight at about 10:03pm!

Link to comment

.....That's how it goes.

No, it´s not.

I have one lockpicking geocache listed by my self and I have found several others. None of them was ever opened by brute force.

 

It have to be obvious whats to do, it has to be clearly described, and it has to be hard to destroy it.

Some cachers might overpace when they don´t get to log real quick. But are there realy cahers out there in your bad bad world, taking the decission to destroy a cache by full intention, using tools or stuff??? I don´t think so. And if so, one of a thousand or so came along. And replacing a cacher after a thousand or so founds wount hurt ;)

 

Now what I'd like is someone to make a great bookmark list of lockpicking geocaches across the country (or globle). It'll be awhile before I'm on the west coast to try this out myself. B)

Link to comment

.....That's how it goes.

No, it´s not.

I have one lockpicking geocache listed by my self and I have found several others. None of them was ever opened by brute force.

 

It have to be obvious whats to do, it has to be clearly described, and it has to be hard to destroy it.

Some cachers might overpace when they don´t get to log real quick. But are there realy cahers out there in your bad bad world, taking the decission to destroy a cache by full intention, using tools or stuff??? I don´t think so. And if so, one of a thousand or so came along. And replacing a cacher after a thousand or so founds wount hurt ;)

 

Now what I'd like is someone to make a great bookmark list of lockpicking geocaches across the country (or globle). It'll be awhile before I'm on the west coast to try this out myself. B)

 

This is the only bookmark list I found... all in Germany I need to look up "lockpicking" in other languages to find more.

 

https://www.geocaching.com/bookmarks/view.aspx?guid=edd1aa81-2545-4d18-a78a-2b324b521d0f

 

Many of these aren't straight lockpicking caches though, and a large number of them are up in trees and require climbing gear.

If you find any more, I'd love to see them.

Edited by jg425
Link to comment

A nice looking set of lockpicking caches.

 

Lockpicking caches are getting more common in my area (southern England). And I go to a monthly event where lockpicking practice can routinely be seen. Currently I've not (yet) made a serious attempt at learning how or getting tools, but it is on my to-do list.

 

All the locking picking caches I've seen include a statement in the description like "you have my explicit permission to pick this one lock."

 

Here is one example Wiltshire Lockpicking Cache #1.

 

I agree with those who suggested making it a "mystery" type rather than trad, as then it is more likely that the description will be read in advance, and less likely that a cacher will try to remove the lock with bolt cutters or whatever. The example I linked was recently disabled by someone trying to break the lock with a nail.

 

I can't comment on local laws or how police may react. Personally I'm not worried about being arrested for trying to open a locked box in the woods. But I'd probably avoid a lockpicking cache attached to a bank's safe in the city.

Link to comment
I can't comment on local laws or how police may react. Personally I'm not worried about being arrested for trying to open a locked box in the woods. But I'd probably avoid a lockpicking cache attached to a bank's safe in the city.

 

I found a small business's safe open with the few remaining papers in it strewn about in a small patch of woods behind a restaurant one time while looking for a cache. I called the non-emergency number of the local PD when I got back to my car. They only seemed mildly interested and I told them what I saw and where it was, but couldn't wait around for them to send a patrol car my way. They had my name and number, but never followed up with me.

Link to comment

So as an update to this thread and topic, I have placed six lockpicking caches so far and they have been really well received.

 

I have learned some things from this series though... lockpicking is not easy and a challenging lock is going to be REALLY challenging for cachers. I have 8 more locks that I intended on placing that get increasingly difficult, but I will wait until someone is able to open all of those I have out currently. One of mine in particular has had at least 6 attempts with hours of picking but nobody has done it yet!

 

Easy locks are a lot more fun for people to find and get into. I was lucky enough to have a bunch of open area around a large park so all the caches are very close together, which makes for more fun for someone wanting to at least attempt all the locks. I am going to make a few more caches that have multiple locks needed to open them, that way there is more bang for the buck per cache.

 

My containers have been working well, we will see how they do with more time/moisture. I made the caches so that you can see/touch the inner container and I think that gives it a "I'm so close" feel to it. I made custom stickers for the caches that have the standard "Official Geocache" look to them along with my Lockpicking Geocache logo I created. I think this makes the containers feel a lot less like pipe bombs (which I was a little worried about.)

 

I also placed one in an awkward position to be more of a challenge to pick it... about 6 feet up in the lower branches of a big tree made it way too difficult for someone shorter than me (I'm 6'1") I have had a couple younger cachers that have picked them, one of them being an 11-year old with a FTF! I am absolutely going to be doing more of these, I have 12 more containers ready to find a home! Thanks again for everyone's input, I'll add more if I have any issues or ideas about these. Here is my list of all my lockpicking caches. Lockpicking Cache List

Link to comment

Easy locks are a lot more fun for people to find and get into.

Have you considered placing more than 1 'easy-ish' lock, instead of making them increasingly difficult? I'm hoping to take a stab at the 1.0 cache at some point, but am waiting on access to TOTT's. It would be great to have more than 1 for the novice pickers.

 

I think this makes the containers feel a lot less like pipe bombs (which I was a little worried about.)

Yeah, I hope muggles don't stumble upon them and think they're bombs or something. Would be cool if you could get some clear pipes (TAP Plastics), but that would be a bit spendy.

 

Congrats on your series. The locals seem to be enjoying them so far.

Link to comment

Have you considered placing more than 1 'easy-ish' lock... It would be great to have more than 1 for the novice pickers.

 

Actually, yes! I have been planning on making about 5 more novice-level caches with a bit of a spin on each one. I was planning on naming them Lockpicking Cache 1.1, 1.2 and so on. Here is an example of the type of variation I was thinking.

 

27169921222_a071513b5a_b.jpg

Link to comment

I am interested in creating some lockpicking geocaches and just wanted to get some input from the forum. First, I want to address legality... most states treat lockpicking tools like bolt cutters. If you aren't using them for burglary, they are fine to have. If you are trespassing at night... different story. Here is a list of laws by state: toool.us/laws

I haven't seen any of these in Washington state but in Germany they are pretty common. They have hundreds of them over there, many even 60 feet up in trees.

 

This is what I have made so far.

 

26305299910_4587b8cdb6_h.jpg

 

I used PVC and steel pipe, each containing a smaller PVC container that can only be removed when you pick the lock. The inner-container would house a logbook (obviously), and possibly other stuff (any ideas would be helpful). I may have to figure out something more waterproof for the inner-container. I am really looking for any input that would be helpful.

 

Thanks,

JG425

 

dude those are AWESOME!

 

I could care less about the laws/rules/grammar-fanatics, go for it!

 

(I'll be looking for similar caches now thanks to you) :-)

Link to comment

After following this topic when it originally appeared, I was inspired to make a lock picking cache.It has taken a while but I've finally done it and it is going well. The cache log container is a pill bottle containing a log sheet. The bottle is contained within a piece of steel water pipe and can only be accessed by picking a lock which enables a steel bolt to be removed to gain access. The steel tube with padlock is contained inside a largish, screw top, plastic jar to protect the lock from the elements and also provides room for small swag items and trackables. I used a transparent lock (bought off ebay) and supplied home made TsOTT in case seekers did not have their own. So far this cache has been well received and there are no others like it in our area. It also brings cachers to a spot with magnificent views over Lake Macquarie extending out to the ocean (Pacific). https://www.geocaching.com/geocache/GC76J38_pick-me-pick-me#

I may plan another using a non transparent lock but with a simpler pin set up.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Followers 2
×
×
  • Create New...