lockpicking geocache

[+SeattleWayne]

On 4/22/2016 at 3:18 PM, Harry Dolphin said:

Lock picking tools? It's almost impossible to buy a pen knife in New Jersey (It's considered a weapon. I buy mine in Pennsylvania. I couldn't take my pen knife to the top of the Empire State Building, or to the Statue of Liberty.)

I certainly hope you warn geocachers about the need to pick locks. If I hike a mile out into the woods and find a cache like that, I'd do my best to get to the log. NM.

If you read the description prior to making such a hike and read that it's a lock picking cache, would you still go? That's the question. 

[+SeattleWayne]

On 4/23/2016 at 6:41 AM, kunarion said:

 

 

Say I arrive with my caching bag, pull out a paper clip, and really mess things up. It worked great in the movies. Do you have a lot of extra locks in case I get pieces of paper clip jammed in one? Will you check it often in case a previous cacher messed it up?

 

Anyway, the containers in the OP look sweet!

Then you probably wouldn't report it to the CO so the next cacher to come along would. Any responsible CO would routinely check on their cache.

[+SeattleWayne]

On 4/23/2016 at 7:39 AM, MtnMutt-ProDuckShins said:

What happens when a Cacher breaks off a piece of Paper Clip in the key slot and jams it?

Then the next cacher to come along would probably report a NM or put it in their DNF log that there's a paper clip jammed in the lock. 

[+SeattleWayne]

On 4/24/2016 at 6:34 PM, Mn-treker said:

Been so long I did not notice it. But still our activities are already regarded as suspicious. Why add a strongly possible criminal element to it?

When I asked a cop who helped using his slim Jim to get into a car. About that tool be said meer possession of such a lock picking device is considered intent. If you are not a locksmith or cop why the need for lock picking tools.

No, intent is walking around a mall parking lot with a slim Jim down the front of your pants. That's intent. Having possession of a lock picking set on the way to a geocache that requires you to pick a lock is not intent. I can buy slim jams and lock picking sets off of Amazon. 

[+kunarion]

10 minutes ago, SeattleWayne said:

On ‎4‎/‎23‎/‎2016 at 9:41 AM, kunarion said:

 

 

Say I arrive with my caching bag, pull out a paper clip, and really mess things up. It worked great in the movies. Do you have a lot of extra locks in case I get pieces of paper clip jammed in one? Will you check it often in case a previous cacher messed it up?

 

Anyway, the containers in the OP look sweet!

Then you probably wouldn't report it to the CO so the next cacher to come along would. Any responsible CO would routinely check on their cache.

 

Holy cats!  Will you be clipping the context out of all year-old posts, to add things the original poster never said?  Just wow.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

2 hours ago, SeattleWayne said:

On 4/24/2016 at 9:34 PM, Mn-treker said:

Been so long I did not notice it. But still our activities are already regarded as suspicious. Why add a strongly possible criminal element to it?

When I asked a cop who helped using his slim Jim to get into a car. About that tool be said meer possession of such a lock picking device is considered intent. If you are not a locksmith or cop why the need for lock picking tools.

No, intent is walking around a mall parking lot with a slim Jim down the front of your pants. That's intent. Having possession of a lock picking set on the way to a geocache that requires you to pick a lock is not intent. I can buy slim jams and lock picking sets off of Amazon. 

My 14 year old son has a lock picking set that came with one of those clear plastic locks for practice.  For the past five years he's gone to a 3 week long camp and does "magic" as one of his daily activities.  Escapology is a form of magic (Houdini is probably one of the most famous escapologists) and the use of a lock pick to get out of restraints is a way to create the illusion of disappearance or transmutation.

I'd certainly try a cache that involved picking a lock but only if it were hidden some place which wasn't in the public eye.  

[+Manville Possum]

3 hours ago, SeattleWayne said:

No, intent is walking around a mall parking lot with a slim Jim down the front of your pants. That's intent. Having possession of a lock picking set on the way to a geocache that requires you to pick a lock is not intent. I can buy slim jams and lock picking sets off of Amazon. 

 

Still, you could be charged with possession of burglary tools and it could be difficult to prove your intent. What if there were a rash of burglaries in the area where the geocache was located? You could end up in court on criminal charges. Better hope the Judge is a Geocacher.

[+SeattleWayne]

17 minutes ago, Manville Possum said:

 

Still, you could be charged with possession of burglary tools and it could be difficult to prove your intent. What if there were a rash of burglaries in the area where the geocache was located? You could end up in court on criminal charges. Better hope the Judge is a Geocacher.

Since the police are the ones who are charging you with possession of burglary tools, and charging you with intent to burglarize, they are the ones who must prove your intentions to do those things. Right? 

[+Manville Possum]

2 minutes ago, SeattleWayne said:

Since the police are the ones who are charging you with possession of burglary tools, and charging you with intent to burglarize, they are the ones who must prove your intentions to do those things. Right? 

 

Yes. But have you ever had dealings with law enforcement and court proceedings?   I have, and I hope it works out for you. Hope you can afford an attorney. Good ones aren't cheap. 

[+SeattleWayne]

5 minutes ago, Manville Possum said:

 

Yes. But have you ever had dealings with law enforcement and court proceedings?   I have, and I hope it works out for you. Hope you can afford an attorney. Good ones aren't cheap. 

I couldn't imagine a police officer, after a cacher shows him/her the geocache he/she is after, and explaining the game, and why he/she has a set of lock picking set, would still take the cacher to jail for further questioning resulting in formal charges, and it leading into a court battle where one had to get a lawyer. I'm assuming you have been jailed and formally charged over geocaching because of your response...I'd love to hear the story. 

Edited August 23, 2017 by SeattleWayne

[+Manville Possum]

2 minutes ago, SeattleWayne said:

I'm assuming you have been jailed and formally charged over geocaching because of your response...I'd love to hear the story. 

 

No, that would not be correct. 

[+dprovan]

1 hour ago, SeattleWayne said:

I couldn't imagine a police officer, after a cacher shows him/her the geocache he/she is after, and explaining the game, and why he/she has a set of lock picking set, would still take the cacher to jail for further questioning resulting in formal charges, and it leading into a court battle where one had to get a lawyer.

It's easy for me to imagine. All it takes is the police officer not believing the geocacher. Who knows why that might happen.

Still, I do generally agree with your point: yes, I concede that in some situations I could get into trouble, but not often enough for me to worry much about it. It wouldn't be the only technically illegal thing I've done while geocaching (or not geocaching, for that matter) because I didn't think I'd get in much trouble even if I did happen to get caught. For example, I don't think twice about walking along railroad tracks to look for a benchmark even though that's technically trespassing.

[+hzoi]

1 hour ago, SeattleWayne said:

I couldn't imagine a police officer, after a cacher shows him/her the geocache he/she is after, and explaining the game, and why he/she has a set of lock picking set, would still take the cacher to jail for further questioning resulting in formal charges, and it leading into a court battle where one had to get a lawyer.

I could.  Let's change it to a cache that somehow required one to use a bong, or cocaine, or a concealed weapon, or (for cachers under the legal limit) alcohol. 

If knowing possession of a thing without proper permission is made a crime, then the object's connection to geocaching rather than (insert criminal activity here) may become less of an issue as to the finding of guilt and more as to the assessment of a sentence.

[+WarNinjas]

I have to say those are some great containers!  I really like the custom stickers as well. Thanks for taking the time to make them so cool!   I am glad to hear there hasn't been problems with brute force to get to them as that was my concern.

As for all the paranoia about having a lock picking set I don't see it as being a problem. (unless there is a law in that state that you can't have one)  There would have to be several things that would have to happen for you to be arrested for it. First you would have to be found by a cop trying to open it.  Then would have to be caught having the lock picks.  Then not being able to explain what you are doing. Then....then...

Unless you have a criminal record I can't see a cop taking you in for it.  I think I would have a better chance of winning the lottery then all those things happening to where I ended up in court over it.

 

[+SeattleWayne]

9 hours ago, WarNinjas said:

I have to say those are some great containers!  I really like the custom stickers as well. Thanks for taking the time to make them so cool!   I am glad to hear there hasn't been problems with brute force to get to them as that was my concern.

As for all the paranoia about having a lock picking set I don't see it as being a problem. (unless there is a law in that state that you can't have one)  There would have to be several things that would have to happen for you to be arrested for it. First you would have to be found by a cop trying to open it.  Then would have to be caught having the lock picks.  Then not being able to explain what you are doing. Then....then...

Unless you have a criminal record I can't see a cop taking you in for it.  I think I would have a better chance of winning the lottery then all those things happening to where I ended up in court over it.

 

Right?? Thank you, WarNinjas. 

Picking a lock that's attached to a geocache is a lot different then picking a lock that grants you entry into someone's home. Or car. Or business. Or whatever. 

[+The Jester]

21 hours ago, hzoi said:

I could.  Let's change it to a cache that somehow required one to use a bong, or cocaine, or a concealed weapon, or (for cachers under the legal limit) alcohol. 

If knowing possession of a thing without proper permission is made a crime, then the object's connection to geocaching rather than (insert criminal activity here) may become less of an issue as to the finding of guilt and more as to the assessment of a sentence.

You do have to be aware of the laws where you are.  In Washington (where this series is) it is not illegal to have lockpicks.  The use of them to commit a crime is illegal.  But as most cops will tell you, most break-ins do not involve lockpicks - it's a skill that takes a while to learn, it takes a time to pick a lock, and it's simply easier and quicker to break the door/window in.

[+SwineFlew]

Since my dad is a locksmith and he got plenty of lockpicks. Having lockpicks with you is in the gray area. In most sense, its legal. Its the cops that you got to worry about. Enough said. Sure I know how to do it because the tools were around and I was bored one week, so I picked up a new skill. Would you find me carrying those tools with me? No you wouldn't.