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Can you log it?


Duzzzz

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Hey,

 

I was wondering about a conversation I was following on fb. There is this puzzle you need to do on pc in order to get the coords for this mystery. It is a long puzzles, takes few days to complete. In order to get complete coordinates you need to do 100% of the puzzle but you can also have the parts of coords and use checker to brute-force the final location. So somebody did just like that, brute-forced the coordinates when they were around 85% with the puzzle.

 

They got the coordinates and when to log the FTF. However, now the owner of the cache deleted this FTF and moved the cache because this person didn't get the coordinates from the relation game but by brute-forcing the checker. Do you think it is okay to delete this FTF? I believe it is because checker (which is now deleted) gives you the ability to brute-force if you are missing tiny part of the coordinates.

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From the guidelines:

Physical caches can be logged online as "Found" once the physical log has been signed.

 

It doesn't matter how the puzzle was solved. Period. The FTF can contact Geocaching HQ to have their log restored if they signed the physical log.

 

Just curious-are you merely an interested observer, the CO, or the FTF?

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From the guidelines:

Physical caches can be logged online as "Found" once the physical log has been signed.

 

It doesn't matter how the puzzle was solved. Period. The FTF can contact Geocaching HQ to have their log restored if they signed the physical log.

 

Just curious-are you merely an interested observer, the CO, or the FTF?

 

That is what I was thinking as well :) I am just observing the conversation.

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I did a field solvable puzzle once by brute force. It was a 'bonus' type cache. There was a series of 10 traditional caches, each which held one digit of the bonus cache's minutes portion of the coordinates. I found all but one of the traditionals. Fortunately, that one was in the 1/100's digit of the minutes. I adjusted the next stage coordinates in my GPS, started with zero, and kept walking until I found the bonus cache.

 

I don't see what I did as any different that what the FTF did in your OP. I had solved 90% of the puzzle by the method that the CO intended. The FTF could just as easily have done what I did, just enter coordinates into their GPS, and gone looking. I don't think the CO should have deleted the log.

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They got the coordinates and when to log the FTF. However, now the owner of the cache deleted this FTF and moved the cache because this person didn't get the coordinates from the relation game but by brute-forcing the checker. Do you think it is okay to delete this FTF? I believe it is because checker (which is now deleted) gives you the ability to brute-force if you are missing tiny part of the coordinates.

The CO has no control over who claims FTF, so I assume you're just saying they deleted the find. That's completely bogus, and, as has been mentioned, GS will reinstate the find on appeal. Personally, I probably wouldn't bother to appeal, but I'd remember to leave out the details in future logs for this CO's caches since, for some sad reason, he seems unable to handle someone thinking outside his box.

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I did a field solvable puzzle once by brute force. It was a 'bonus' type cache. There was a series of 10 traditional caches, each which held one digit of the bonus cache's minutes portion of the coordinates. I found all but one of the traditionals. Fortunately, that one was in the 1/100's digit of the minutes. I adjusted the next stage coordinates in my GPS, started with zero, and kept walking until I found the bonus cache.

 

We did almost the exact same thing this past week. Series of six caches with numbers in the lids. Could not find one of them. Object was to insert them into the final's coordinate template. The template had two places where the missing number was to be inserted. Fortunately, the CO had provided a checksum. Basic math applied and we had the final. Not what the CO intended but we got it anyway. So far, no deletion.

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Cache owners can't force people to solve puzzles in a certain way, but nobody can force controlling cache owners to stop acting like spoiled children.

This is the way i see it. As a puzzle cache owner, i do place them with the hopes that some will solve it as intended. But, i have no problem at all if they end up figuring it out another way. The one exception, and it doesn't bug me too much, is when someone who previously found the cache straight out gives coordinates out.

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Cache owners can't force people to solve puzzles in a certain way, but nobody can force controlling cache owners to stop acting like spoiled children.

This is the way i see it. As a puzzle cache owner, i do place them with the hopes that some will solve it as intended. But, i have no problem at all if they end up figuring it out another way. The one exception, and it doesn't bug me too much, is when someone who previously found the cache straight out gives coordinates out.

 

The other exception is that Facebook page that gives answers to many puzzles. Oh, well.

I found it hilarious when some cachers found my 5 Difficulty puzzle because 'there was a gap with no cache.' (My hints are fairly explicit.)

I do get miffed at cachers who logged all the caches in the series, but I doubt they found them all. Oh, well.

Then there was the cacher who I saw hiding a cache. I said "That should be easy to find." Came back later and signed the log, and discovered the TB. He noticed that I had discovered the TB. He came back, tore out my FTF log, and since the cache had not yet been published, he reworked the puzzle and rehid the cache elsewhere. I thought it was hilarious that I saw him hide it. He was very unhappy. But since it had not been published yet, I lost my FTF. Oh, well. And I put him on my ignore list. No sense of humor! Oh, well.

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Then there was the cacher who I saw hiding a cache. I said "That should be easy to find." Came back later and signed the log, and discovered the TB. He noticed that I had discovered the TB. He came back, tore out my FTF log, and since the cache had not yet been published, he reworked the puzzle and rehid the cache elsewhere. I thought it was hilarious that I saw him hide it. He was very unhappy. But since it had not been published yet, I lost my FTF. Oh, well. And I put him on my ignore list. No sense of humor! Oh, well.

He probably wanted to rig it so one of his buddies could get the FTF, and you spoiled his plan. :laughing:

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Brute forcing a digit or two can be a valid way of solving a puzzle. Probably not intended, but there is nothing wrong with it. Another way (related to brute forcing a digit) is to look on the map at all possibilities, and eliminate those that are in impossible places, such as in a building. Just strategies, not wrong.

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I accidentally found a puzzle cache during a CITO. I logged it. Solving a puzzle "correctly" is not a prerequisite to logging a puzzle cache. That's why the sample note reads, "Congratulations! You found it! Intentionally or not."

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