Asking for coords on puzzle cache

March 30, 2016

I recently received the following message asking for the coords on my puzzle cache that has only been found 32 times in 6 years and those that have solved it often need hints from me which I gladly provide.

"Hello! I am trying to place a cache in ***** park and was informed by a reviewer that my cache is not 161 metres away from a hidden stage in your mystery cache "***********" . I was hoping to get the coordinates from you so I could move my cache the appropriate distance to make 161 metres in distance between the two. Thanks so much!!"

I found it a strange request and was wondering if others had ever received this type of request and how you would handle this type of request?

1) Tell the sender to solve the puzzle - I am leaning towards this

2) Ignore the request

3) Give him/her the coords

4) Other

Thanks

March 30, 2016

I'd either give him coordinates, or if really concerned about protecting it, give him at least approximate coordinates.

7.4k · March 30, 2016

Option 1.

2.4k · March 30, 2016

Hard to say.

I think I'd ask him/her what coords they're using, then tell them they have to move their cache at least X meters (N,S,E,W), being a little soft with the coords so as not to give away the exact hiding spot.

7.3k · March 30, 2016

I recently received the following message asking for the coords on my puzzle cache that has only been found 32 times in 6 years and those that have solved it often need hints from me which I gladly provide.

"Hello! I am trying to place a cache in ***** park and was informed by a reviewer that my cache is not 161 metres away from a hidden stage in your mystery cache "***********" . I was hoping to get the coordinates from you so I could move my cache the appropriate distance to make 161 metres in distance between the two. Thanks so much!!"

I found it a strange request and was wondering if others had ever received this type of request and how you would handle this type of request?

1) Tell the sender to solve the puzzle - I am leaning towards this

2) Ignore the request

3) Give him/her the coords

4) Other

Thanks

What's the point of creating puzzle caches if people can just ask the CO for the coordinates? Wouldn't you have made it a Traditional then?

Whether it's a newbie or an experienced cacher, they should know that the way to solve the dilemma is to solve the puzzle and find the cache.

Give them a hint, if you like.

If it was me, I would point them to the Help Center:

1.13. Saturation Guideline: Hidden, Virtual and Additional Waypoints

http://support.Groundspeak.com/index.php?pg=kb.page&id=232

B.

4.6k · March 30, 2016

Tell him/her to solve the puzzle. I feel it's bad practice to "give" coordinates anyway. Hints... yes, solutions... no.

What if, if you send the coordinates, the cache suddenly is found by many because the solution is posted on one of the many "geocheat.com" sites?

4.5k · March 30, 2016

Hard to say.

I think I'd ask him/her what coords they're using, then tell them they have to move their cache at least X meters (N,S,E,W), being a little soft with the coords so as not to give away the exact hiding spot.

This is what i would want to do. See if you can get an approximate location of where they are trying to place their cache then see if they can try moving a few more feet in a direction away from the puzzle.

Hopefully the other person has tried to figure out the puzzle and if so, it's just too difficult for them. Even with hints, they might not ever figure it out. Not be a big deal if there are tons of caches in the area anyway. On the other hand, this could hamper a good cache from getting published. I'm with the OP in that if i place a difficult cache, then i prefer people to try and figure it out themselves. In a situation like this though, i might give them some soft coordinates to work with.

March 30, 2016

When I was trying to place one of my first caches, I hit the same issue.

The reviewer told me that my location was too close to a puzzle final.

Since I hadn't actually solved any puzzles at that point in my caching career and I knew where my coordinates were, I went and found the final, got the coordinates, and placed my own cache.

Interestingly enough, I ended up adopting that puzzle cache.

11.6k · March 30, 2016

When I was trying to place one of my first caches, I hit the same issue.

The reviewer told me that my location was too close to a puzzle final.

Since I hadn't actually solved any puzzles at that point in my caching career and I knew where my coordinates were, I went and found the final, got the coordinates, and placed my own cache.

That's the way I've done it, too. Also at Events, when I tell people about my great idea for a hiding spot, they will give me a little heads-up before I even hide it. "Cool, and on a completely unrelated Topic, have you found [Certain Puzzle Cache] yet?" In a saturated area, you likely need to know where every cache stage is. Go find them.

Maybe in this case, the OP may offer to walk the route with the new hider, allowing him to do the math. It is a great cache that people enjoy hunting and the CO loves to go there, too, right? :anibad:

Edited March 30, 2016 by kunarion

7.5k · March 30, 2016

Hard to say.

I think I'd ask him/her what coords they're using, then tell them they have to move their cache at least X meters (N,S,E,W), being a little soft with the coords so as not to give away the exact hiding spot.

This is what i would want to do. See if you can get an approximate location of where they are trying to place their cache then see if they can try moving a few more feet in a direction away from the puzzle.

Hopefully the other person has tried to figure out the puzzle and if so, it's just too difficult for them. Even with hints, they might not ever figure it out. Not be a big deal if there are tons of caches in the area anyway. On the other hand, this could hamper a good cache from getting published. I'm with the OP in that if i place a difficult cache, then i prefer people to try and figure it out themselves. In a situation like this though, i might give them some soft coordinates to work with.

+1

March 30, 2016

Since they are so concerned about placing a cache nearby, they're responsible to solve your Puzzle not you to give them the solution.

7.5k · March 30, 2016

1) Tell the sender to solve the puzzle - I am leaning towards this

Better is to encourage them to solve the puzzle, making it clear you're there to help them. Depending on how experienced they are with puzzles, you could do more hand holding to get them to the solution than you normally would. Think of this as an opportunity to introduce someone to puzzle solving instead of as defending your GZ. If you just tell them their only choice is to solve the puzzle on their own, they'll just start asking other finders for the coordinates.

Another choice is to suggest they move their cache at least .2 miles from their current location, since mathematically that would ensure they were no longer within .1 mile of your cache.

2.4k · March 30, 2016

Ask them to provide you with the location of their cache. Take a look at where it is relative to where yours is and provide them some guidance on where to go. Personally I'd have no problem giving them the location of a hidden stage, but that's me. After all this person is trying to hide a cache not find yours.

I'm not a big puzzle cache enthusiast mainly because I'm horrible at them. If I were in this situation I'd be looking for the same info.

I don't think I'd expect the cache owner to just give me the cords but I would hope for a little guidance.

These hidden waypoints are sort of a grey area. It can make the 528 ft. rule challenging for some.

The simple and easy thing to do would be to just ignore them.

The right thing to do would be to help them out.

3.7k · March 30, 2016

If it were me, I'd just ask them to provide the coordinates they are using for their cache and would then be able to help guide them away from my own without providing a complete spoiler.

7.4k · March 30, 2016

Ask them to provide you with the location of their cache. Take a look at where it is relative to where yours is and provide them some guidance on where to go. Personally I'd have no problem giving them the location of a hidden stage, but that's me. After all this person is trying to hide a cache not find yours.

I'm not a big puzzle cache enthusiast mainly because I'm horrible at them. If I were in this situation I'd be looking for the same info.

I don't think I'd expect the cache owner to just give me the cords but I would hope for a little guidance.

These hidden waypoints are sort of a grey area. It can make the 528 ft. rule challenging for some.

The simple and easy thing to do would be to just ignore them.

The right thing to do would be to help them out.

Why is it "right" to provide free hints and solutions because someone else wants to completely saturate an area that is already well-served by existing caches?

2.4k · March 30, 2016

Ask them to provide you with the location of their cache. Take a look at where it is relative to where yours is and provide them some guidance on where to go. Personally I'd have no problem giving them the location of a hidden stage, but that's me. After all this person is trying to hide a cache not find yours.

I'm not a big puzzle cache enthusiast mainly because I'm horrible at them. If I were in this situation I'd be looking for the same info.

I don't think I'd expect the cache owner to just give me the cords but I would hope for a little guidance.

These hidden waypoints are sort of a grey area. It can make the 528 ft. rule challenging for some.

The simple and easy thing to do would be to just ignore them.

The right thing to do would be to help them out.

Why is it "right" to provide free hints and solutions because someone else wants to completely saturate an area that is already well-served by existing caches?

Because they have the right to place a cache in the area if it's within the guidelines.

Is solving a puzzle cache a requirement to place a cache?

15.3k · March 31, 2016

I might consider a few options: solve the puzzle, find somewhere else to hide the cache, or have him give me his coordinates and I'll tell him where to move his hide (leaving a comfortable margin beyond the minimum 528ft/161m saturation guideline).

6.8k · March 31, 2016

As a first step I'd just suggest starting a dialog with him. Ask him roughly where he wants to put his cache so you can then tell him roughly which way he'll need to move it. If the proposed cache is a traditional I can't see why he wouldn't give you his proposed coordinates, but if it's going to be another tricky puzzle it could get a bit, um, tricky I suppose. I'm sure with goodwill on both sides it can be resolved without having to give away the solution to your puzzle.

Jeff

3k · March 31, 2016

I wouldn't give the coords, but would encourage them to solve the puzzle and at least give them general advice about which direction to move their cache.

7.4k · March 31, 2016

Ask them to provide you with the location of their cache. Take a look at where it is relative to where yours is and provide them some guidance on where to go. Personally I'd have no problem giving them the location of a hidden stage, but that's me. After all this person is trying to hide a cache not find yours.

I'm not a big puzzle cache enthusiast mainly because I'm horrible at them. If I were in this situation I'd be looking for the same info.

I don't think I'd expect the cache owner to just give me the cords but I would hope for a little guidance.

These hidden waypoints are sort of a grey area. It can make the 528 ft. rule challenging for some.

The simple and easy thing to do would be to just ignore them.

The right thing to do would be to help them out.

Why is it "right" to provide free hints and solutions because someone else wants to completely saturate an area that is already well-served by existing caches?

Because they have the right to place a cache in the area if it's within the guidelines.

Is solving a puzzle cache a requirement to place a cache?

Placing it too close to another cache means it isn't within the guidelines. The guidelines do not require cache owners to disclose mystery/puzzle coordinates.

4.8k · March 31, 2016

Id probably give a bit of slack and help them to some degree. I would probably go with justintim999's suggestion, and ask them for the location of their cache (or approximate location), and give them some general guidance on which direction they need to move their cache to avoid mine.

I've been asked this before, and invariably, it's someone new to the game, so I tend to go easier than someone I know. I don't expect new people to understand the GC culture, so I tend to be on the polite side rather than the taunting side

You always have the option to ignore the request.

March 31, 2016

As an update.

Last night I sent the cacher in question a message stating that he/she should solve the puzzle and that I would help him with it or barring that I asked for his proposed coords so I could help him with the placement of his new cache.

As yet I have not received a reply.

2.4k · March 31, 2016

Ask them to provide you with the location of their cache. Take a look at where it is relative to where yours is and provide them some guidance on where to go. Personally I'd have no problem giving them the location of a hidden stage, but that's me. After all this person is trying to hide a cache not find yours.

I'm not a big puzzle cache enthusiast mainly because I'm horrible at them. If I were in this situation I'd be looking for the same info.

I don't think I'd expect the cache owner to just give me the cords but I would hope for a little guidance.

These hidden waypoints are sort of a grey area. It can make the 528 ft. rule challenging for some.

The simple and easy thing to do would be to just ignore them.

The right thing to do would be to help them out.

Why is it "right" to provide free hints and solutions because someone else wants to completely saturate an area that is already well-served by existing caches?

Because they have the right to place a cache in the area if it's within the guidelines.

Is solving a puzzle cache a requirement to place a cache?

Placing it too close to another cache means it isn't within the guidelines. The guidelines do not require cache owners to disclose mystery/puzzle coordinates.

Is this one of those unwritten rules? Not only do you have to meet the cache hiding guidelines but you also have to solve every puzzle and multi cache within a 3 mile radius to make sure you're at the proper distance? Seems unreasonable to me when a simple nudge by a cache owner would do.

I understand the concept of puzzle caches. I also understand the reason some make them very difficult to solve. What I don't understand is the unwillingness to offer any kind of assistance in solving them. I put out caches for people to find. If someone is putting in the effort and having a hard time with it I'll supply as much information as needed for them to find it. I could put out a puzzle cache tomorrow that no one would ever find although I don't know why I'd bother doing that.

7.4k · March 31, 2016

Ask them to provide you with the location of their cache. Take a look at where it is relative to where yours is and provide them some guidance on where to go. Personally I'd have no problem giving them the location of a hidden stage, but that's me. After all this person is trying to hide a cache not find yours.

I'm not a big puzzle cache enthusiast mainly because I'm horrible at them. If I were in this situation I'd be looking for the same info.

I don't think I'd expect the cache owner to just give me the cords but I would hope for a little guidance.

These hidden waypoints are sort of a grey area. It can make the 528 ft. rule challenging for some.

The simple and easy thing to do would be to just ignore them.

The right thing to do would be to help them out.

Why is it "right" to provide free hints and solutions because someone else wants to completely saturate an area that is already well-served by existing caches?

Because they have the right to place a cache in the area if it's within the guidelines.

Is solving a puzzle cache a requirement to place a cache?

Placing it too close to another cache means it isn't within the guidelines. The guidelines do not require cache owners to disclose mystery/puzzle coordinates.

Is this one of those unwritten rules? Not only do you have to meet the cache hiding guidelines but you also have to solve every puzzle and multi cache within a 3 mile radius to make sure you're at the proper distance? Seems unreasonable to me when a simple nudge by a cache owner would do.

I understand the concept of puzzle caches. I also understand the reason some make them very difficult to solve. What I don't understand is the unwillingness to offer any kind of assistance in solving them. I put out caches for people to find. If someone is putting in the effort and having a hard time with it I'll supply as much information as needed for them to find it. I could put out a puzzle cache tomorrow that no one would ever find although I don't know why I'd bother doing that.

Each cache owner must determine the level of assistance he/she is willing to offer. That is totally independent of someone else's desire to place a cache.

If a cache placement is being hampered by the presence of other caches, perhaps the person trying to place the cache should understand that the area is already well-served by caches and find somewhere else to put one.

Edited March 31, 2016 by narcissa

2.4k · March 31, 2016

Ask them to provide you with the location of their cache. Take a look at where it is relative to where yours is and provide them some guidance on where to go. Personally I'd have no problem giving them the location of a hidden stage, but that's me. After all this person is trying to hide a cache not find yours.

I'm not a big puzzle cache enthusiast mainly because I'm horrible at them. If I were in this situation I'd be looking for the same info.

I don't think I'd expect the cache owner to just give me the cords but I would hope for a little guidance.

These hidden waypoints are sort of a grey area. It can make the 528 ft. rule challenging for some.

The simple and easy thing to do would be to just ignore them.

The right thing to do would be to help them out.

Why is it "right" to provide free hints and solutions because someone else wants to completely saturate an area that is already well-served by existing caches?

Because they have the right to place a cache in the area if it's within the guidelines.

Is solving a puzzle cache a requirement to place a cache?

Placing it too close to another cache means it isn't within the guidelines. The guidelines do not require cache owners to disclose mystery/puzzle coordinates.

Is this one of those unwritten rules? Not only do you have to meet the cache hiding guidelines but you also have to solve every puzzle and multi cache within a 3 mile radius to make sure you're at the proper distance? Seems unreasonable to me when a simple nudge by a cache owner would do.

I understand the concept of puzzle caches. I also understand the reason some make them very difficult to solve. What I don't understand is the unwillingness to offer any kind of assistance in solving them. I put out caches for people to find. If someone is putting in the effort and having a hard time with it I'll supply as much information as needed for them to find it. I could put out a puzzle cache tomorrow that no one would ever find although I don't know why I'd bother doing that.

Each cache owner must determine the level of assistance he/she is willing to offer. That is totally independent of someone else's desire to place a cache.

If a cache placement is being hampered by the presence of other caches, perhaps the person trying to place the cache should understand that the area is already well-served by caches and find somewhere else to put one.

I can only hope that level of assistance is high.

The problem here is that the placement is being hampered by the presense of a cache who's location is hidden. The cache owner is adding the additional requirement of solving their puzzle cache to determine the proper distance of the new cache. The term "well served" is an opinion and has nothing to do with the right to place a cache in a particular location.

Edited March 31, 2016 by justintim1999

3.7k · March 31, 2016

You have to consider the possibility that the enquiry isn't actually genuine, but an effort to wheedle out the puzzle coordinates (or a good hint)...so if he/she is unwilling to provide coordinates I'd remain cautious about giving anything away.

2.4k · March 31, 2016

You have to consider the possibility that the enquiry isn't actually genuine, but an effort to wheedle out the puzzle coordinates (or a good hint)...so if he/she is unwilling to provide coordinates I'd remain cautious about giving anything away.

I'm sure there are people who would lie for a smiley. I choose to take people at face value until I learn otherwise.

3.7k · March 31, 2016

You have to consider the possibility that the enquiry isn't actually genuine, but an effort to wheedle out the puzzle coordinates (or a good hint)...so if he/she is unwilling to provide coordinates I'd remain cautious about giving anything away.

I'm sure there are people who would lie for a smiley. I choose to take people at face value until I learn otherwise.

I'm the same and wouldn't accuse anyone of lying without real evidence. But I'm not proposing making any accusations, just asking for a little more information.

7.4k · March 31, 2016

Each cache owner must determine the level of assistance he/she is willing to offer. That is totally independent of someone else's desire to place a cache.

If a cache placement is being hampered by the presence of other caches, perhaps the person trying to place the cache should understand that the area is already well-served by caches and find somewhere else to put one.

I can only hope that level of assistance is high.

The problem here is that the placement is being hampered by the presense of a cache who's location is hidden. The cache owner is adding the additional requirement of solving their puzzle cache to determine the proper distance of the new cache. The term "well served" is an opinion and has nothing to do with the right to place a cache in a particular location.

The level of assistance depends on the cache owner. Some give hints generously, others do not. It's their choice alone.

There's no additional requirement. The chosen location simply isn't suitable. It happens all the time and cache owners are under no obligation to hand out puzzle solutions every time someone thinks they can wedge another cache into a place that already has caches.

15.3k · April 1, 2016

Is solving a puzzle cache a requirement to place a cache?

Not at all. It is perfectly acceptable for the CO to retrieve the cache container and place it at a completely different location if the first attempt conflicts with the saturation guideline.

1.4k · April 1, 2016

I would probably give them a hint on how to solve the puzzle. Then leave it at that. However you do it is up to you though.

3.7k · April 1, 2016

I can only hope that level of assistance is high.

So does the person asking, obviously. This goes back to something that always bugs me: the implication that we, as owners of mystery caches, are somehow "jerks" or inconsiderate for not handing out answers whenever our puzzles get in the way of other cachers finding or hiding caches.

The puzzle is nothing more than an additional, virtual, step of hiding the cache. Asking for the answer is pretty much like asking a CO to tell you where and how the container is hidden. It's up to the CO, and only the CO, to decide whether he or she is willing to spoil the hide, so to speak. Expecting such a level of assistance is presumptuous.

2.4k · April 1, 2016

I can only hope that level of assistance is high.

So does the person asking, obviously. This goes back to something that always bugs me: the implication that we, as owners of mystery caches, are somehow "jerks" or inconsiderate for not handing out answers whenever our puzzles get in the way of other cachers finding or hiding caches.

The puzzle is nothing more than an additional, virtual, step of hiding the cache. Asking for the answer is pretty much like asking a CO to tell you where and how the container is hidden. It's up to the CO, and only the CO, to decide whether he or she is willing to spoil the hide, so to speak. Expecting such a level of assistance is presumptuous.

I would go along with just about everything you said here IF the person in question was trying to find the puzzle cache. Assistance in helping another in hiding a cache is something different.

2.4k · April 1, 2016

Is solving a puzzle cache a requirement to place a cache?
Not at all. It is perfectly acceptable for the CO to retrieve the cache container and place it at a completely different location if the first attempt conflicts with the saturation guideline.

But I Want to place it here, I like it here. Do I keep moving it 20 feet and re-submitting it until I get it far enough from your hidden waypoint? Or can you simply give me an Idea of how far is far enough.

4.6k · April 1, 2016

Is solving a puzzle cache a requirement to place a cache?
Not at all. It is perfectly acceptable for the CO to retrieve the cache container and place it at a completely different location if the first attempt conflicts with the saturation guideline.

But I Want to place it here, I like it here. Do I keep moving it 20 feet and re-submitting it until I get it far enough from your hidden waypoint? Or can you simply give me an Idea of how far is far enough.

That would really depend on whether you can find somewhere decent to hide the cache at those 20 foot intervals.

3.7k · April 1, 2016

I can only hope that level of assistance is high.

So does the person asking, obviously. This goes back to something that always bugs me: the implication that we, as owners of mystery caches, are somehow "jerks" or inconsiderate for not handing out answers whenever our puzzles get in the way of other cachers finding or hiding caches.

The puzzle is nothing more than an additional, virtual, step of hiding the cache. Asking for the answer is pretty much like asking a CO to tell you where and how the container is hidden. It's up to the CO, and only the CO, to decide whether he or she is willing to spoil the hide, so to speak. Expecting such a level of assistance is presumptuous.

I would go along with just about everything you said here IF the person in question was trying to find the puzzle cache. Assistance in helping another in hiding a cache is something different.

Except the person asking is requesting coordinates. Not offering their own. Not asking for suggestions. Straight out asking for the location of the final which, no doubt, they will go ahead and log found of course, because why not now that they have the location?

2.4k · April 1, 2016

I can only hope that level of assistance is high.

So does the person asking, obviously. This goes back to something that always bugs me: the implication that we, as owners of mystery caches, are somehow "jerks" or inconsiderate for not handing out answers whenever our puzzles get in the way of other cachers finding or hiding caches.

The puzzle is nothing more than an additional, virtual, step of hiding the cache. Asking for the answer is pretty much like asking a CO to tell you where and how the container is hidden. It's up to the CO, and only the CO, to decide whether he or she is willing to spoil the hide, so to speak. Expecting such a level of assistance is presumptuous.

I would go along with just about everything you said here IF the person in question was trying to find the puzzle cache. Assistance in helping another in hiding a cache is something different.

Except the person asking is requesting coordinates. Not offering their own. Not asking for suggestions. Straight out asking for the location of the final which, no doubt, they will go ahead and log found of course, because why not now that they have the location?

Could be someone fishing. Could be a relatively new cacher who isn't sure how to go about the situation. Only the original poster knows the answer to that. Either way you can offer some assistance without giving away anything. Costs you nothing and could mean something to someone else.

If they are fishing and do log the final, C'est la vie. To me that's about a worrisome as a cloudy day and not worth alienating a new cacher placing a new cache. It's a game people just a game.

2.4k · April 1, 2016

Is solving a puzzle cache a requirement to place a cache?
Not at all. It is perfectly acceptable for the CO to retrieve the cache container and place it at a completely different location if the first attempt conflicts with the saturation guideline.

But I Want to place it here, I like it here. Do I keep moving it 20 feet and re-submitting it until I get it far enough from your hidden waypoint? Or can you simply give me an Idea of how far is far enough.

That would really depend on whether you can find somewhere decent to hide the cache at those 20 foot intervals.

Yup, but lets make hiding this new cache more challenging than it already is. Better yet lets keep giving them wrong cords and see how long they hold out before they quit. Or we could apply the golden rule and see what happens.

3.7k · April 1, 2016

Is solving a puzzle cache a requirement to place a cache?
Not at all. It is perfectly acceptable for the CO to retrieve the cache container and place it at a completely different location if the first attempt conflicts with the saturation guideline.

But I Want to place it here, I like it here. Do I keep moving it 20 feet and re-submitting it until I get it far enough from your hidden waypoint? Or can you simply give me an Idea of how far is far enough.

That would really depend on whether you can find somewhere decent to hide the cache at those 20 foot intervals.

Yup, but lets make hiding this new cache more challenging than it already is. Better yet lets keep giving them wrong cords and see how long they hold out before they quit. Or we could apply the golden rule and see what happens.

Well, the problem is I wouldn't tend to ask anyone for coordinates...and I likely wouldn't even ask for input from a CO for this purpose. So, to me, the "golden rule" means it's probably just better if they don't push for me to give them answers or tell them how far to move it.

People seem so eager to say "it's just a game, don't take it so seriously" when I question their motivations. How about THEY not take it so seriously and just play the game instead of pestering others for a way to find a hole in the map for them to place a cache? The few times I've run into the situation where my cache was too close to another, I've either just let that spot go or ended up solving the puzzle on my own eventually. Never felt the need to bug anyone about helping me find the right spot.

4.6k · April 1, 2016

Is solving a puzzle cache a requirement to place a cache?
Not at all. It is perfectly acceptable for the CO to retrieve the cache container and place it at a completely different location if the first attempt conflicts with the saturation guideline.

But I Want to place it here, I like it here. Do I keep moving it 20 feet and re-submitting it until I get it far enough from your hidden waypoint? Or can you simply give me an Idea of how far is far enough.

That would really depend on whether you can find somewhere decent to hide the cache at those 20 foot intervals.

Yup, but lets make hiding this new cache more challenging than it already is. Better yet lets keep giving them wrong cords and see how long they hold out before they quit. Or we could apply the golden rule and see what happens.

Wuh? :huh:

3.6k · April 2, 2016

I would just give them the area to avoid. I had a multi cache in a park and someone wanted to know where they can place a cache in it. I said 500ft outside the park since all the stages were physical.

15.3k · April 2, 2016

It is perfectly acceptable for the CO to retrieve the cache container and place it at a completely different location if the first attempt conflicts with the saturation guideline.
But I Want to place it here, I like it here.

Yep. But there is already an existing cache here. You could put the existing cache on your watchlist and wait for it to be archived. Or you could retrieve the cache container and place it at a completely different location, one that doesn't already have so many existing caches.

Do I keep moving it 20 feet and re-submitting it until I get it far enough from your hidden waypoint?

That doesn't sound like a completely different location to me.

Or can you simply give me an Idea of how far is far enough.

I might have been able to do that, if you had told me where you wanted to place your cache, instead of demanding that I tell you the solution to my puzzle cache.

2.4k · April 2, 2016

It is perfectly acceptable for the CO to retrieve the cache container and place it at a completely different location if the first attempt conflicts with the saturation guideline.
But I Want to place it here, I like it here.
Yep. But there is already an existing cache here. You could put the existing cache on your watchlist and wait for it to be archived. Or you could retrieve the cache container and place it at a completely different location, one that doesn't already have so many existing caches.

Do I keep moving it 20 feet and re-submitting it until I get it far enough from your hidden waypoint?
That doesn't sound like a completely different location to me.

Or can you simply give me an Idea of how far is far enough.
I might have been able to do that, if you had told me where you wanted to place your cache, instead of demanding that I tell you the solution to my puzzle cache.

Lets read the original post again. I see one cacher asking another cacher for help. Is anyone demanding anything?

2.4k · April 2, 2016

Is solving a puzzle cache a requirement to place a cache?
Not at all. It is perfectly acceptable for the CO to retrieve the cache container and place it at a completely different location if the first attempt conflicts with the saturation guideline.

But I Want to place it here, I like it here. Do I keep moving it 20 feet and re-submitting it until I get it far enough from your hidden waypoint? Or can you simply give me an Idea of how far is far enough.

That would really depend on whether you can find somewhere decent to hide the cache at those 20 foot intervals.

Yup, but lets make hiding this new cache more challenging than it already is. Better yet lets keep giving them wrong cords and see how long they hold out before they quit. Or we could apply the golden rule and see what happens.

Well, the problem is I wouldn't tend to ask anyone for coordinates...and I likely wouldn't even ask for input from a CO for this purpose. So, to me, the "golden rule" means it's probably just better if they don't push for me to give them answers or tell them how far to move it.

People seem so eager to say "it's just a game, don't take it so seriously" when I question their motivations. How about THEY not take it so seriously and just play the game instead of pestering others for a way to find a hole in the map for them to place a cache? The few times I've run into the situation where my cache was too close to another, I've either just let that spot go or ended up solving the puzzle on my own eventually. Never felt the need to bug anyone about helping me find the right spot.

What's my motivation other than to try to help another cacher? What's their motivation other than trying to hide a cache. Could it be a new cacher asking the question? Ok, I get it. Everything has to have an ulterior motive behind it right. Why so cynical?

13.7k · April 2, 2016

I recently received the following message asking for the coords on my puzzle cache that has only been found 32 times in 6 years and those that have solved it often need hints from me which I gladly provide.

"Hello! I am trying to place a cache in ***** park and was informed by a reviewer that my cache is not 161 metres away from a hidden stage in your mystery cache "***********" . I was hoping to get the coordinates from you so I could move my cache the appropriate distance to make 161 metres in distance between the two. Thanks so much!!"

I found it a strange request and was wondering if others had ever received this type of request and how you would handle this type of request?

1) Tell the sender to solve the puzzle - I am leaning towards this

2) Ignore the request

3) Give him/her the coords

4) Other

Thanks

I'd maybe give the person a hint on how to solve the puzzle, and forget it.

These days, many folks seem to expect instant gratification ("it's all about ME"), and every once in a while they need to be reminded that real life doesn't work that way.

April 2, 2016

<_< The said Cacher who supposeily wants to place a Cache nearby can work with their reviewer to find a placement of their cache.

The easy method would be for them to solve the puzzle or move on. They could even contact a finder & work with them if all else fails.

9.2k · April 2, 2016

"Hello! I am trying to place a cache in ***** park and was informed by a reviewer that my cache is not 161 metres away from a hidden stage in your mystery cache "***********" . I was hoping to get the coordinates from you so I could move my cache the appropriate distance to make 161 metres in distance between the two. Thanks so much!!"

Maybe the original request should have been:

"Hello! I am trying to place a cache in ***** park and was informed by a reviewer that my cache is not 161 metres away from a hidden stage in your mystery cache "***********" .

My cache is at >Coordinates<

I was hoping to get help from you so I could move my cache to make 161 metres in distance between the two. Thanks so much!!"

I'd offer help with the puzzle, or help with distance/direction if they provided cordinates for their cache...

I'd keep an eye out for their cache being published... :unsure:

I'd be tempted to say no logging of the Puzzle cache, if extra 'help' is offered...

7.5k · April 2, 2016

I'd offer help with the puzzle, or help with distance/direction if they provided cordinates for their cache...

If your presumption is that they're trying to game you by getting the coordinates and finding your cache without solving the puzzle, surely you can imagine why they'd be worried about sending you the coordinates of their as yet unpublished cache least you sneak over there and sign the log before it's made public.

(Edited to correct the wrong attribution.)

Edited April 2, 2016 by dprovan

13.7k · April 2, 2016

I'd offer help with the puzzle, or help with distance/direction if they provided cordinates for their cache...

If your presumption is that they're trying to game you by getting the coordinates and finding your cache without solving the puzzle, surely you can imagine why they'd be worried about sending you the coordinates of their as yet unpublished cache least you sneak over there and sign the log before it's made public.

I'm dyslexic as heck, often needing to read things a few times, and couldn't find that anywhere.

Okay, figured it out.

It seems the quote got misplaced somehow, as Bear and Ragged said that in the post above your reply.

Ahh, see you've fixed it.

Edited April 2, 2016 by cerberus1

4.6k · April 2, 2016

I'd be tempted to say no logging of the Puzzle cache, if extra 'help' is offered...

Unfortunately that wouldn't stick - log signed = found = smiley.

Asking for coords on puzzle cache

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