Cache Placements

[Ky Narec]

Good day,

 

I wish to place a series of caches along a clothing optional hiking trail and as per the geocaching guidelines, it is suggested that before I go through all the trouble of finalising final cache co-ordinates and placements that I just make sure that the cache listing and info will conform to the latest geocaching guidelines. I've tried contacting a local reviewer and have not heard back from them in over 2 weeks.

 

Now the placement guide has the following guidelines:

 

1. All local laws and documented land management policies apply.

No trespassing will be done this is a known hiking trail.

 

2. You assure us that you have the landowner's and/or land manager's permission before you hide any geocache, whether placed on private or public property.

I do have the landowner’s permission

 

3. Geocaches are never buried, neither partially nor completely.

No holes will be dug. I will put the caches in crevices or under a pile of rocks

 

4. Geocache placements do not damage, deface or destroy public or private property.

No property will be damaged or defaced

 

5. Wildlife and the natural environment are not harmed in the pursuit of geocaching.

This is a hiking trail so caches will be placed within close proximity of the route walked and the hint will provide a better idea as

to where the cache is hidden

 

6. Geocaches are not placed in restricted, prohibited or otherwise inappropriate locations.

This where I get stuck. . . inappropriate locations. However the guidelines go on to explain:

 

Additional regulations and laws that apply only to your country and region may further restrict cache placement. A cache may be disabled or archived if one or more of the following is true. Please note that the list is not exhaustive; there are many reasons why a cache may be disabled or archived.

1. If your cache is reported by the land owner or land manager as being an unwanted intrusion, Groundspeak will respect the wishes of the land owner or manager.

2. The cache placement is in an area that is highly sensitive to additional foot and/or vehicular traffic including, but not limited to, archaeological sites, historical sites and cemeteries. Note that some cemeteries permit cache placement.

3. The cache is on property belonging to a railroad. In the United States we generally require a distance of 150 ft (46 m) from active tracks. Local laws may vary.

4. The cache is problematic due to its proximity to a public structure, including and not limited to, highway bridges, major roadways, dams, government buildings, schools, military installations, hospitals, airports and other such locations.

 

So at the end of the day I do not consider a hiking route where you will stumble upon nude hikers as inappropriate. It will be stated in the cache description as a warning to cachers so they are not caught unaware. Nudity is also not a requirement to find these caches.

 

7. Physical elements of different geocaches should be at least 0.10 miles (528 ft or 161 m) apart.

I will plan and measure when I do my cache placement and verify on final placement.

 

Other considerations:

1. Select an appropriate location and container.

Location has been selected and I will mostly be using clip n lock containers. But all containers will comply to Geocaching rules.

 

2. Label your geocache.

I will label all containers appropriately as well.

 

Now to further explain the concept of my hides I’ve looked at what was approved in the past throughout the world and thus based my idea on these. Here are three examples:

• Owasso Shalom Clothing Optional Cache - http://coord.info/GC18RR9

• Natural Exposure - Clothing Optional Cache - http://coord.info/GC57FMW

• Eden cache - http://coord.info/GCZ2DP

 

As mentioned I have got permission from the land owner at Tsitsikamma Lodge and Spa to place caches along the Striptease Trail that they manage. Below are the rules that will be placed on all 11 caches that I plan to place:

 

This trail is on the Tsitsikamma Striptease River Trail.

 

1. Due to heavy rains or work in the nearby plantation we never know when the trail will be closed so a phone call is always welcomed. You can phone 042 280 3702

2. Anyone hiking must report to reception to sign the permit (which it free) and they must report back after completing the hike.

3. It is advisable that hikers must wear suitable shoes as some areas are more difficult.

4. You may drink the water from the river as it is safe to drink but it is also recommended that you bring water and refreshments as it is not a short Hike. It can take a minimum of 4 Hours of brisk walking without stopping for a swim or looking for the caches.

5. With the trail being called the Striptease Trail please be aware that you may encounter nudity on this trail. For those who are brave and daring and want to engage in nude caching please only do so from the start of the trail and not from the lodge.

6. Photo logs are more than welcome, clothed or unclothed, but please just remember that this is a family activity so if you are daring to pose unclothed please make sure that all private areas are concealed either by the cache or by the natural surroundings.

7. The trail is well marked, just follow the blue markings and you won’t get lost.

8. Please remember that this is a nature area so no fires, no pets (unless it’s your spouse), and don’t leave anything behind, not even your spouse.

9. Please be back by dark as we don’t want to send out a search party for you as they tend to party instead of searching for you.

10. Gates and reception open at 7am.

 

Also I plan to use the pool names for the cache descriptions as some of the pools names may seem inappropriate, I’ve gone and done further investigation and have provided instances where the names have been used in other caches.

 

1) Pebble Pool

a. Pebble Rock - http://coord.info/GC1NMR9

b. Sampson's Pebble - http://coord.info/GCHCE2

c. Catch The Pebble Vienna - (Die Naturdose) - http://coord.info/GC3NXTV

 

2) Honeymoon Pool

a. Munro Honeymoon Cache - http://coord.info/GCR7RC

b. Coral Island - mlvdburg honeymoon cache - http://coord.info/GC4KZH2

c. Honeymoon - http://coord.info/GCY0BB

 

3) Halfway Pool

a. Halfway - http://coord.info/GCW980

b. Halfway to ? - http://coord.info/GCH2ZR

c. Halfway: Up Traver Road - http://coord.info/GC42CRV

 

4) Bikini Pool

a. Bikini Bottom - http://coord.info/GC37DF4

b. Itsy Bitsy Teenie Weenie Yellow LPC Bikini - http://coord.info/GC4NBFF

c. Bikini Test - http://coord.info/GC5E0F0

 

5) Topless Pool

a. Topless - http://coord.info/GC6CCXG

b. Topless at Stoney Island Beach - http://coord.info/GC4GH2G

c. Honeycutt Creek – Topless - http://coord.info/GC67JMV

 

6) G-String Pool

a. G-string pass - http://coord.info/GC52VWP

b. Wendy's G-String Cache - http://coord.info/GC1W0B5

c. Need a G String - http://coord.info/GC42GTN

 

7) Bottomless Pool

a. Bezedna propast / Bottomless abyss - http://coord.info/GCQDGV

b. Bottomless Potamus - http://coord.info/GC51NFV

c. Bottomless Bin - http://coord.info/GC5YAXN

 

8) Boobs Pool

a. Boobs of Qatar - http://coord.info/GC199ZE

b. BOoBs Beach - http://coord.info/GCXRZ5

c. Seins - http://coord.info/GC28QMJ

 

9) Fantasy Pool

a. Fantasy Island - http://coord.info/GC6CW68

b. Fantasy X - http://coord.info/GC6445E

c. Fantasy Island - http://coord.info/GC6CW68

 

10) Kaalgat/Full Monty Pool

a. GAG22 - Two Half-Montys = One Full Monty - http://coord.info/GC5D4BM

b. The Full Monty - http://coord.info/GCK8AW

c. FULL MONTY VISTA - http://coord.info/GC4DFGA

 

11) Lookout Point

a. Lookout! - http://coord.info/GC5C9QX

b. Cape Lookout - http://coord.info/GC9311

c. Lookout Below! - http://coord.info/GC6CNPD

 

So I am aware that this series may be controversial due to the fact that there is a nudity aspect to this series. However as I said earlier it is not a requirement to find the caches.

 

So my question is: Am I allowed to place these caches and present them for publishing?

[+Touchstone]

We've had caches located at clothing optional beaches in our area, and typically the real problem is that the caches go missing. That being said, a few thoughts on your idea:

 

1. The Guidelines also state the following:

 

The more geocaches that you have found, the better you will understand the various elements that make up a great geocaching experience.

 

Not to be harsh, but according to your Profile (which I know may not be reflective of your experience), you have found 1 cache. I would recommend getting a bit more experience before attempting to hide caches.

 

2. I would remove any references to the Lodge from the Listing pages per the Commercial portion of the Guidelines.

 

3. The title of your Listing will be governed by the TOU on the site, and somewhat based on the local convention. There's a famous Listing in Austria (if memory serves me correctly), named after a nearby town, which is fine in Austria, but would likely be inappropriate in the U.S. for instance. My point being, YMMV.

 

Thanks for asking. Sounds like you've put a lot of thought into the idea, and read the Guidelines. That's more effort than a lot of people put into it. I appreciate you coming to the Forums first to ask for input.

 

Good luck with your project!

[+justintim1999]

Looks like you've(un)covered everything. As long as people are aware of what to expect I don't see any problem.

[medoug]

 

6. Photo logs are more than welcome, clothed or unclothed, but please just remember that this is a family activity so if you are daring to pose unclothed please make sure that all private areas are concealed either by the cache or by the natural surroundings.

 

 

I'd be ashamed if I could hide my private areas with a micro cache.

[+NanCycle]

2. Anyone hiking must report to reception to sign the permit (which it free) and they must report back after completing the hike.

 

This might create a problem if it requires entering a business and interacting with the staff.

[Ky Narec]

We've had caches located at clothing optional beaches in our area, and typically the real problem is that the caches go missing. That being said, a few thoughts on your idea:

 

1. The Guidelines also state the following:

 

The more geocaches that you have found, the better you will understand the various elements that make up a great geocaching experience.

 

Not to be harsh, but according to your Profile (which I know may not be reflective of your experience), you have found 1 cache. I would recommend getting a bit more experience before attempting to hide caches.

 

2. I would remove any references to the Lodge from the Listing pages per the Commercial portion of the Guidelines.

 

3. The title of your Listing will be governed by the TOU on the site, and somewhat based on the local convention. There's a famous Listing in Austria (if memory serves me correctly), named after a nearby town, which is fine in Austria, but would likely be inappropriate in the U.S. for instance. My point being, YMMV.

 

Thanks for asking. Sounds like you've put a lot of thought into the idea, and read the Guidelines. That's more effort than a lot of people put into it. I appreciate you coming to the Forums first to ask for input.

 

Good luck with your project!

 

Thanks for the advice, you are correct with the fact that with more experience I'll gain more knowledge and thus be better prepared to place caches. I want to place the caches here as this is a really stunning walk in a natural river setting. I've done this walk a number of times and always amazed at the beauty of nature and thus want others to experience the beauty.

 

I will look at removing the lodge's name from the info. And so by the look of things the names might be a problem according to the reviewer. So I will bear that in mind.

 

Once again thanks for the advice.

[Ky Narec]

 

6. Photo logs are more than welcome, clothed or unclothed, but please just remember that this is a family activity so if you are daring to pose unclothed please make sure that all private areas are concealed either by the cache or by the natural surroundings.

 

 

I'd be ashamed if I could hide my private areas with a micro cache.

 

None of the caches are micros.

[Ky Narec]

2. Anyone hiking must report to reception to sign the permit (which it free) and they must report back after completing the hike.

 

This might create a problem if it requires entering a business and interacting with the staff.

 

In South Africa many hikes require permits which you need to collect before you set out for the hike and in many cases you also need to "sign out" on your return. So I don't believe that this would cause a problem.

[+SageTracey]

Great research and asking questions upfront. One small point to bear in mind is that the previous approval of a cache does not serve as a precedent for future caches, so if a reviewer knocks back or questions one of your caches, don't expect to quote a precedent in your discussions with the reviewer.

 

Good luck.

[Ky Narec]

Great research and asking questions upfront. One small point to bear in mind is that the previous approval of a cache does not serve as a precedent for future caches, so if a reviewer knocks back or questions one of your caches, don't expect to quote a precedent in your discussions with the reviewer.

 

Good luck.

 

This is why I am asking. I understand that in the past they allowed virtual caches but now they don't. Also reading through the forums I realised that they once also allowed challenge caches which are no longer allowed as well. So I am not relying on past caches being proof that my cache should be published, that is why I am asking here whether or not this type of cache is still acceptable.

 

I don't want to spend the day placing 11 caches along the stretch of river, get co-ords, work on a description only to be told during the reviewing stage that Groundspeak does not allow these type of caches anymore. Hence Why I am seeking clarity on these caches before I set out to place them.

[Keystone]

2. Anyone hiking must report to reception to sign the permit (which it free) and they must report back after completing the hike.

 

This might create a problem if it requires entering a business and interacting with the staff.

 

In South Africa many hikes require permits which you need to collect before you set out for the hike and in many cases you also need to "sign out" on your return. So I don't believe that this would cause a problem.

I'm unfamiliar with South African practices, of course, so your reviewer will be the authority on this issue. But in the USA, having to check in with a privately operated facility (such as a Boy Scout camp) would constitute "interacting with the staff" like NanCycle said, and would present a problem under the commercialism guideline. In contrast, having to obtain a hiking or boating permit from a public (governmental) land manager would not be a problem.

[Ky Narec]

2. Anyone hiking must report to reception to sign the permit (which it free) and they must report back after completing the hike.

 

This might create a problem if it requires entering a business and interacting with the staff.

 

In South Africa many hikes require permits which you need to collect before you set out for the hike and in many cases you also need to "sign out" on your return. So I don't believe that this would cause a problem.

I'm unfamiliar with South African practices, of course, so your reviewer will be the authority on this issue. But in the USA, having to check in with a privately operated facility (such as a Boy Scout camp) would constitute "interacting with the staff" like NanCycle said, and would present a problem under the commercialism guideline. In contrast, having to obtain a hiking or boating permit from a public (governmental) land manager would not be a problem.

 

Thanks for your response Keystone, so if I understand correctly there are 2 issues that could cause this cache not being published:

1. Names for the caches - this is dependant on the region as mentioned in a earlier post. And,

2. Obtaining the permit as no staff interaction is allowed.

 

So beside these two issues, if I understand correctly, Groundspeak would allow for a clothing optional cache series to be published as per the guidelines?

Edited March 27, 2016 by Ky Narec

[Keystone]

1. You would also want to warn in the cache description that the area is clothing optional.

2. You cannot use your cache description to promote an agenda, such as encouraging a nudist lifestyle.

3. All other listing guidelines apply, like minimum spacing between caches of 528 feet (to name one example).

[+Tassie_Boy]

2. Anyone hiking must report to reception to sign the permit (which it free) and they must report back after completing the hike.

 

This might create a problem if it requires entering a business and interacting with the staff.

 

In South Africa many hikes require permits which you need to collect before you set out for the hike and in many cases you also need to "sign out" on your return. So I don't believe that this would cause a problem.

I'm unfamiliar with South African practices, of course, so your reviewer will be the authority on this issue. But in the USA, having to check in with a privately operated facility (such as a Boy Scout camp) would constitute "interacting with the staff" like NanCycle said, and would present a problem under the commercialism guideline. In contrast, having to obtain a hiking or boating permit from a public (governmental) land manager would not be a problem.

 

So question for you then keystone, what's the difference between the two?

If i read the OP correctly the interactions with the staff are just to sign in for the walk, not anything to do with the cache. As far as they're concerned you are there for a walk in the bush and the sign in procedures are a part of their WHS obligations.

At a national park there is usually a fee to pay that involves interacting with staff who, like it or not, do have an agenda to push.

I have seen from conversations on the forums that there are plenty of caches on military bases. How are these different to what's being proposed?

[Ky Narec]

1. You would also want to warn in the cache description that the area is clothing optional.

2. You cannot use your cache description to promote an agenda, such as encouraging a nudist lifestyle.

3. All other listing guidelines apply, like minimum spacing between caches of 528 feet (to name one example).

 

1. As per Rule 5 on my proposed cache listing and as per the name of the trail I believe that this gives enough warning to others that they may encounter clothing optional people.

 

Rule 5: With the trail being called the Striptease Trail please be aware that you may encounter nudity on this trail. For those who are brave and daring and want to engage in nude caching please only do so from the start of the trail and not from the lodge.

 

2. I don't believe that in the cache description or in the rules I am promoting a nudist lifestyle. I am however promoting a walk in a beautiful area along a river with 10 stunning pools to cool down in on a hot day, where anyone clothed or unclothed can enjoy.

 

3. As in my first post I mentioned that all rules will be adhered to.

 

Once again all I am seeking is guidelines as to whether or not Groundspeak will allow the publishing of a clothing optional cache series. Guidelines in the past have changed and thus with a cache previous being allowed may no longer be allowed. ie. virual caches.

 

In the past Groundspeak allowed clothing optional caches, so I just want to check as to whether these type of caches are still allowed to be published?

[Keystone]

So question for you then keystone, what's the difference between the two?

A governmental agency is not a commercial business.

If i read the OP correctly the interactions with the staff are just to sign in for the walk, not anything to do with the cache. As far as they're concerned you are there for a walk in the bush and the sign in procedures are a part of their WHS obligations.

This is the first time that "WHS" has been mentioned in the discussion. Whatever a "WHS obligation" is, I will leave that to the local reviewer.

At a national park there is usually a fee to pay that involves interacting with staff who, like it or not, do have an agenda to push.

National Parks are typically run by the government, not by private commercial enterprises.

I have seen from conversations on the forums that there are plenty of caches on military bases. How are these different to what's being proposed?

The proposed cache location is in South Africa, not Afghanistan.

[+on4bam]

The proposed cache location is in South Africa, not Afghanistan.

 

Ah, regional differences

When in nature reserves (clothed or otherwise) it's not uncommon to register if long hikes are involved. Many times there's no interaction with staff anyway, just sign in when starting the hike and sign out when you return.

 

BTW, signing in for a FREE hike is not commercial anyway.

 

We did a few hikes in Australia a few months ago, some logbooks were in empty shacks others had the book in the park office (non commercial you say? Then why the shop? )

[+colleda]

The proposed cache location is in South Africa, not Afghanistan.

 

Ah, regional differences

When in nature reserves (clothed or otherwise) it's not uncommon to register if long hikes are involved. Many times there's no interaction with staff anyway, just sign in when starting the hike and sign out when you return.

 

BTW, signing in for a FREE hike is not commercial anyway.

 

We did a few hikes in Australia a few months ago, some logbooks were in empty shacks others had the book in the park office (non commercial you say? Then why the shop? )

I know of a couple of places (in Australia) where you pay for your NP permit at a nearby shop. This can be a seasonal thing when rangers are not on duty.

[+Tassie_Boy]

 

We did a few hikes in Australia a few months ago, some logbooks were in empty shacks others had the book in the park office (non commercial you say? Then why the shop? )

 

This is what I'm trying to get at. Several of the nearby national parks have big visitor's centres with souvenir shops, interpretation centres and cafés. They also have to justify their existence by the number of people through.

Government run our not is still a commercial operation.

 

Also on keystone's comment on the military bases. What are the chances of your average Afgahni cacher being allowed in to find them?

[+Touchstone]

Also on keystone's comment on the military bases. What are the chances of your average Afgahni cacher being allowed in to find them?

 

Caches on military installations is not a new thing. These caches are meant for the troops, both on domestic bases and abroad. Groundspeak has allowed these exceptions to the Guidelines for quite some time. Move along, nothing to see here.

[Ky Narec]

on4bam, colleda, Tassie_Boy and Touchstone. I do believe that there could be regional differences and exceptions with regards to staff interaction. I believe that this guideline is in place so that it prevents a cacher having to purchase goods/meal/accommodation and or trinkets in order to find a cache. There are a few exceptions such as caches hidden in national parks/zoos/museums, to name a few, where you need to pay to gain entry. I do not want my question to be clouded by this debate.

 

All I want to know is: Does Groundspeak allow caches to be placed within clothing optional areas? There is no agenda, a clothing optional lifestyle is not being promoted, the establishment that operates the trail is not clothing optional.

 

I came to ask in this forum as the local reviewer is not responding to my email I sent to him over 2 weeks ago. SA is still very conservative so this may ruffle some feathers amongst cachers. I don't want to go on a 6 hour walk, place caches get co-ords only to be told that it's not allowed and then I will have to go and collect all 10 containers.

 

So once again: Does Groundspeak allow caches to be placed within clothing optional areas?

[+Tassie_Boy]

on4bam, colleda, Tassie_Boy and Touchstone. I do believe that there could be regional differences and exceptions with regards to staff interaction. I believe that this guideline is in place so that it prevents a cacher having to purchase goods/meal/accommodation and or trinkets in order to find a cache.

 

I always believed it was to do with a situation that I've seen pop up on the forums in the past where to log the cache you had to ask the shop keeper and they would go and get the container from it the back with the cacher therefore feeling obliged to purchase.

[+on4bam]

I always believed it was to do with a situation that I've seen pop up on the forums in the past where to log the cache you had to ask the shop keeper and they would go and get the container from it the back with the cacher therefore feeling obliged to purchase.

 

We've done a few like that (one was in NT, Oz). The most recent in the last few months. There has never been an obligation to purchase anything eventhough in a few instances we did have a snack and drink out of our own free will

 

As with (free) registering for a walk, this should not be a problem. Clothing optional shouldn't be either if it's clearly stated on the cachepage.

[+Mudfrog]

on4bam, colleda, Tassie_Boy and Touchstone. I do believe that there could be regional differences and exceptions with regards to staff interaction. I believe that this guideline is in place so that it prevents a cacher having to purchase goods/meal/accommodation and or trinkets in order to find a cache. There are a few exceptions such as caches hidden in national parks/zoos/museums, to name a few, where you need to pay to gain entry. I do not want my question to be clouded by this debate.

 

All I want to know is: Does Groundspeak allow caches to be placed within clothing optional areas? There is no agenda, a clothing optional lifestyle is not being promoted, the establishment that operates the trail is not clothing optional.

 

I came to ask in this forum as the local reviewer is not responding to my email I sent to him over 2 weeks ago. SA is still very conservative so this may ruffle some feathers amongst cachers. I don't want to go on a 6 hour walk, place caches get co-ords only to be told that it's not allowed and then I will have to go and collect all 10 containers.

 

So once again: Does Groundspeak allow caches to be placed within clothing optional areas?

I don't believe the clothing optional aspect will affect whether the caches are published or not. But, and even though a fee is not required to hike the trail, the entity that operates the trail could present a problem. The wording of your cache page can make or break the listing so make sure to keep it fairly generic with regards to the owner or entity that operates the trail. A mention of the clothing optional is good but again, don't go on and on about it in your cache write up.

 

It seems odd that you haven't heard anything from your reviewer. How are you trying to contact him or her? I'd say the best way is to go to the bottom of a cache page they had published, click his or her name, then contact through their profile page. Are you sure your spam folder isn't catching any replies they may have sent? Don't want to step on any toes but if you're sure about the above, then i'd go ahead and contact Groundspeak to see what they suggest.

[Ky Narec]

I don't believe the clothing optional aspect will affect whether the caches are published or not. But, and even though a fee is not required to hike the trail, the entity that operates the trail could present a problem. The wording of your cache page can make or break the listing so make sure to keep it fairly generic with regards to the owner or entity that operates the trail. A mention of the clothing optional is good but again, don't go on and on about it in your cache write up.

 

It seems odd that you haven't heard anything from your reviewer. How are you trying to contact him or her? I'd say the best way is to go to the bottom of a cache page they had published, click his or her name, then contact through their profile page. Are you sure your spam folder isn't catching any replies they may have sent? Don't want to step on any toes but if you're sure about the above, then i'd go ahead and contact Groundspeak to see what they suggest.

 

I've tried contacting them via direct mail and via Groundspeak messenger. I will just wait a bit longer as I'm currently carving out some of the caches. Thanks for the advice Mudfrog. I will do everything possible to keep the listing as neutral as possible whilst warning that the trail is clothing optional.

[Keystone]

Tip: most reviewers do not like to use the message center for official correspondence. Email is usually best, especially if sent by following the link on the reviewer's profile page so that it's sent through the Geocaching.com email system. Be sure to check the box that allows the reviewer to respond directly to your email address, or they may not bother to answer. You can look at my profile page as an example of how some reviewers use their profiles to give instructions on preferred communication methods.

[Nomex]

Maybe you'll like this tip then...

 

Submit a Listing once you have your caches placed. I rarely will answer hypothetical questions posed in emails or any other form of communication. If you want a Review, I'll do it on a Listing page. I don't pre approve concepts. Too many ways to misunderstand or misenterpret issues.

[+hzoi]

Also on keystone's comment on the military bases. What are the chances of your average Afgahni cacher being allowed in to find them?

 

Caches on military installations is not a new thing. These caches are meant for the troops, both on domestic bases and abroad. Groundspeak has allowed these exceptions to the Guidelines for quite some time. Move along, nothing to see here.

 

Caches on military installations in the US are pretty rare and vary based on the installation commander's policies and preferences. Most posts do not have any; I am currently on Fort Bliss, Texas, and there are none, and I know that some caches that were placed on Kastner Range, a defunct impact area that still has unexploded ordnance, were archived (and hopefully removed). Some have only virtual or earthcaches, like Fort Sill, Oklahoma. Some do allow physical caches; I know there is an old one in Garden Canyon on Fort Huachuca, Arizona; I know there are a few on hunting lands on Fort Rucker, Alabama, and I know there are dozens on hunting lands on Eglin Air Force Base, Florida (permit required).

 

As far as bases in the Central Command theater, I know there are many. I do wonder how many got permission from the mayor's cell or installation commander, but I didn't start caching until after I got back from my deployment, so I never really looked into it other than seeing what was out there. I regret that I literally could have stepped on the oldest cache in Iraq and never knew it was there, really wish I'd known about it so I could have gotten the find.

 

This is tangential to the topic, I know, so I will end there.

 

edit to add: It's Afghan, not Afghani. Afghans are people. Afghanis are currency.

Edited March 29, 2016 by hzoi

[+briansnat]

Not really a getting started issue.

[+AustinMN]

2. Anyone hiking must report to reception to sign the permit (which it free) and they must report back after completing the hike.

 

This might create a problem if it requires entering a business and interacting with the staff.

 

I can't imagine how this would be different from paying an admission fee for something like a state park.

[+Mudfrog]

Maybe you'll like this tip then...

 

Submit a Listing once you have your caches placed. I rarely will answer hypothetical questions posed in emails or any other form of communication. If you want a Review, I'll do it on a Listing page. I don't pre approve concepts. Too many ways to misunderstand or misenterpret issues.

The OP does seem to be over thinking this but in general, it's probably better than just blindly going forward. No matter what, i'd still think a reviewer would try to offer up some advice when someone asked.

 

It might just be best for the OP to go ahead and place one of the caches for review. Iron out any problems with it then go forward with the rest.

[+narcissa]

Maybe you'll like this tip then...

 

Submit a Listing once you have your caches placed. I rarely will answer hypothetical questions posed in emails or any other form of communication. If you want a Review, I'll do it on a Listing page. I don't pre approve concepts. Too many ways to misunderstand or misenterpret issues.

The OP does seem to be over thinking this but in general, it's probably better than just blindly going forward. No matter what, i'd still think a reviewer would try to offer up some advice when someone asked.

 

It might just be best for the OP to go ahead and place one of the caches for review. Iron out any problems with it then go forward with the rest.

 

Yeah, starting with one or two and going through the review process is probably the most practical way to approach this.

[Keystone]

2. Anyone hiking must report to reception to sign the permit (which it free) and they must report back after completing the hike.

 

This might create a problem if it requires entering a business and interacting with the staff.

 

I can't imagine how this would be different from paying an admission fee for something like a state park.

See my prior posts to this thread. State Parks are run by... the State. The government is different than a private commercial business (although it would make a good thread for the off topic forum to debate whether government is a business). Buying an annual Parks pass or paying $5.00 to the ranger at the park entrance booth doesn't make a park property "commercial." Having to sign in at the office for a private facility, on the other hand, constitutes interacting with employees, something proscribed under the commercialism guideline.

[+GeoTrekker26]

2. Anyone hiking must report to reception to sign the permit (which it free) and they must report back after completing the hike.

 

This might create a problem if it requires entering a business and interacting with the staff.

 

I can't imagine how this would be different from paying an admission fee for something like a state park.

See my prior posts to this thread. State Parks are run by... the State. The government is different than a private commercial business (although it would make a good thread for the off topic forum to debate whether government is a business). Buying an annual Parks pass or paying $5.00 to the ranger at the park entrance booth doesn't make a park property "commercial." Having to sign in at the office for a private facility, on the other hand, constitutes interacting with employees, something proscribed under the commercialism guideline.

 

So anything that is not a government is a commercial business?

[+Wet Pancake Touring Club]

I would hope that the reviewer would take the reason that people are asked to sign-in into consideration. I have done a few caches where I was asked to sign-in. As for why, I can only imagine.

 

Maybe they wanted to get an idea of how many people used the area, in order to protect the environment.

 

Maybe they wanted to know the popular areas, so they knew where to direct limited funding for road improvements, toilets, food lockers, etc.

 

In one case, it was required to sign-in, because the sign-in sheet doubled as the cache logbook.

 

If government or commercial are the only choices, where does that put groups like "The Nature Conservancy", and other non-profits that own land?

[+narcissa]

I would hope that the reviewer would take the reason that people are asked to sign-in into consideration. I have done a few caches where I was asked to sign-in. As for why, I can only imagine.

 

Maybe they wanted to get an idea of how many people used the area, in order to protect the environment.

 

Maybe they wanted to know the popular areas, so they knew where to direct limited funding for road improvements, toilets, food lockers, etc.

 

In one case, it was required to sign-in, because the sign-in sheet doubled as the cache logbook.

 

If government or commercial are the only choices, where does that put groups like "The Nature Conservancy", and other non-profits that own land?

 

Non-profits seem to be treated as non-commercial, you just need to be mindful of that agenda guideline.

[+AustinMN]

2. Anyone hiking must report to reception to sign the permit (which it free) and they must report back after completing the hike.

 

This might create a problem if it requires entering a business and interacting with the staff.

 

I can't imagine how this would be different from paying an admission fee for something like a state park.

See my prior posts to this thread. State Parks are run by... the State. The government is different than a private commercial business (although it would make a good thread for the off topic forum to debate whether government is a business). Buying an annual Parks pass or paying $5.00 to the ranger at the park entrance booth doesn't make a park property "commercial." Having to sign in at the office for a private facility, on the other hand, constitutes interacting with employees, something proscribed under the commercialism guideline.

 

To muddy the waters, in many parks systems in the U.S., the pass is not being sold the state, but by an outsourced company or sometimes a non-profit volunteer. The money may go to the state, but you are interacting with an employee who does not work for the state, or even a volunteer member of "Friends of Ugly Lake State Park."

[+narcissa]

2. Anyone hiking must report to reception to sign the permit (which it free) and they must report back after completing the hike.

 

This might create a problem if it requires entering a business and interacting with the staff.

 

I can't imagine how this would be different from paying an admission fee for something like a state park.

See my prior posts to this thread. State Parks are run by... the State. The government is different than a private commercial business (although it would make a good thread for the off topic forum to debate whether government is a business). Buying an annual Parks pass or paying $5.00 to the ranger at the park entrance booth doesn't make a park property "commercial." Having to sign in at the office for a private facility, on the other hand, constitutes interacting with employees, something proscribed under the commercialism guideline.

 

To muddy the waters, in many parks systems in the U.S., the pass is not being sold the state, but by an outsourced company or sometimes a non-profit volunteer. The money may go to the state, but you are interacting with an employee who does not work for the state, or even a volunteer member of "Friends of Ugly Lake State Park."

 

That's not really muddying the waters if the park is still being operated on behalf of the state or on a not-for-profit basis.

[Ky Narec]

 

See my prior posts to this thread. State Parks are run by... the State. The government is different than a private commercial business (although it would make a good thread for the off topic forum to debate whether government is a business). Buying an annual Parks pass or paying $5.00 to the ranger at the park entrance booth doesn't make a park property "commercial." Having to sign in at the office for a private facility, on the other hand, constitutes interacting with employees, something proscribed under the commercialism guideline.

 

I have started a new thread to further discuss this point My link.

 

I started this thread to actually wanting to know if it is acceptable according to geocaching guidelines to place caches at a clothing optional trail. It has moved onto a debate about who a cacher may or may not interact with. My thoughts on that are that it will most probably be up to the reviewer even though I maintain that there are no differences.

 

I want to thank all who participated in this forum, it has given me a better understanding of how to go about placing my caches and I plan to place them in the coming month and hopefully have them published before the end of the month.