Too many caches placed by Tneigel in New Jersey? Thoughts..

January 9, 2003

The attached message below was sent to me. You be the judge. I also think its a big state. Big! Now don't get me wrong. I did "listen" to the message and will probably think twice about more placements. If someone wants to put a cache out, then just do it. I put in long hours on these endeavors to show people new areas. I have formed a rule since recently asked. If I can't maintain a cache, I disable it. I try to earnestly take care of them, and many, many people have helped in this effort. Some have timed out and they are being removed as I hit the areas. I will be happy to remove some of the complacent ones if so desired. I get beat out on many locations and thing its a great thing. So many wonderful areas around here. Such a nice format to introduce them to others.

Some cachers just seek caches, some find extentive numbers. Some only place a few. Some ignore their caches. Some put down phony logs, and some raid the caches. We all do different things.

-------Attached Message------------

THIS IS AN AUTOMATED EMAIL MESSAGE FROM GEOCACHING.COM

User S.. has contacted you with the following message:

Hi,

These are just some observations. One sixth of the geocaches in NJ were posted by you. There are still 400 in NJ that you have not found (or

placed). Many of your geocaches are really close together.

It seems like (a) giving the hiding a rest might give others a chance to hide some, too; ( :rolleyes: having over 100 geocaches to maintain might be a

bit much; © finding some more could be a good of time.

I don't live in your area, but if I did, I think that tripping over one of your geocaches every 500 feet might get a bit old. In NJ they might

change it from 'geocaching' to 'monopoly'. It sounds like people are enjoying your geocaches, but if you get many comments like this (from one

of your geocaches):

"Actually, tneigal, you beat us in placing a cache at this location. We scoped it out last week and planned to put a cache in the exact spot you chose - well done!!"

...that might be a sign. I don't mean to be hypercritical. I just thought I'd mention these things as food for thought.

Cheers,

S.....

January 9, 2003

I think as long as the caches are quality caches in good locations (and maintained), there is no problem being an active hider. The problem arises when cachers get hiding fever and simply do it for the numbers. Then all you are left with is the gladware in the stump. I have visited yor cache, "Hole in the Wall" in PA. It is in an interesting location and provides a degree of challenge. As long as it can be maintained, it's cool. I have problems with the mega-hiders who dump caches just for the numbers. Remember QUALITY is much better than QUANTITY!µ

January 9, 2003

I loved doing your caches when I was down in the Pine Barrens last Spring and plan a trip this Spring to get more. Very Small Things and Pennies on the Track are 2 of my favorite caches. As long as you can maintain them, I have no problem with your setting lots of caches. They are good for travelers like myself. Maybe you should see what other NJ cachers think.

6.4k · January 9, 2003

I'm guessing the person who sent the letter is either pretty new or not real familiar with geocaching in South Jersey. Without people like Tneigel in the south, and Briansnat to the north, I bet there would be a whole lot less people caching then there is now. Most people when they find the site look for a cache close to home. I know when I first heard about geocaching back in 2000, I cacme here and looked to see what was nearby. Closest cache was hundreds of miles away at that time, and I promptly forgot about caching for a year. Without Tom almost single-handedly peppering South jersey with caches, I bet lots of people after him would have found the site, found maybe 1 cache within 50 miles listed, and lost interest. I've found lots of Toms caches, and most have been well maintained, and ALL have been interesting places. If I had a wheresgeoge for every time I said "how the %$#^ does Tom find these places?" I would be wealthy (and tied with Stayfloopy at the WG$ site!). I can't think of any tneigel cache I've done where they were 500ft apart from each other, and for the most part they have been nice strolls in little known places.

I might also point people to another recent thread here, which has several votes for Tom as best cache hider in the state. If this person who wrote the email has any REAL interest in geocaching in South Jersey, they would be thanking Tom for his caches, not putting him down. Keep putting them in interesting places Tom, And we'll keep hunting them! Can't wait to try all your canoe caches in the spring!

Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon.

38.2k · January 9, 2003

Hey Mopar, I'm not even close to tneigel. Maybe me, GWHO and Artful Dodger together.

Anyway T., if you can place and maintain 100+ quality caches, more power to you. Don't worry about "stealing" good spots from other people. The spots are there for the taking. I know I've had my eye on some good spots and suddenly a cache pops up there. I didn't feel cheated.

I placed caches in spots that nobody else would have thought of and seen caches in places where I said to myself "how come I didn't think of that?".

The point is to make sure there plenty of decent caches out there for local geocachers and visitors. It really doesn't matter who places them.

"Paternalism is the greatist despotism" - Emmanual Kant

1.2k · January 9, 2003

Right Brian, the only thing better then hiding a cache in a great spot is finding one in a great spot.

Tom, keep hidin' 'em. Team Ekitt10 has already planned another day-long trip in the pines ... we see no problems planning two

January 9, 2003

I'll be the first to say that im a short timer, but when i go to visit a park, I LOVE it when there are several caches there! Most of the time they are spread through out the park and enable me to see and/or walk different areas. Being outdoors (esp. in natural areas) is a big reason why I cache. Im a avivd backpacker (do a lot of AT backpacking) and caching is another excuse for me to enjoy the wonderful world out there. Cheesequake park has a lot of caches (8?), I think Allaire has a number as well. I havent hit either yet, but on a nice weekend day in the spring the family will be packing up a picnic and hitting a bunch of these for a day trip. So long as the size of the park can support it, then I say "cache on".

4.5k · January 9, 2003

Scheesch...this guy says he doesn't even live where you place your caches. He sounds like a typical noseybody. Jealous. The "S.." must stand for S**thead. I wouldn't worry about it.

Alan

January 9, 2003

This is an invitation to Tneigel...Please come and live in central West Virginia for a year. We would love to have you discover some of our 'hidden' areas and maybe hide a few caches. Hmmmm? "Almost Heaven, West Virginia"

The harder you work,the harder it is to give up.

Vince Lombarde

January 10, 2003

I lived in South Jersey for a while, near the pine barrens. But it took living overseas for 10 years, getting posted back to Wash DC, and getting involved in geocaching to finally get around to hiking the Batona Trail. I got five caches in that area one day and I think only two or three were yours. Other people are putting them out. Plus for some cachers it's nice to get in your car drive 100 miles and be able to get a few caches with only a 5 miles walk. That's better than drive, walk, cache, drive, walk, cache, drive, walk, cache. IMHO.

January 10, 2003

I've cached in South Jersey only one time and searched for Tneigel's "Twice the Trouble" cache and three others – his was by far the most enjoyable. It was about a 45 min. hike through a beautiful park - a very well thought out, quality cache. I can't wait to get back down there this summer to do some serious caching.

I agree with mr.magoo, that multiple caches in a park is a good thing. For us, caching is more about hiking and enjoying nature then driving from park to park. We would rather take one long walk then several short ones.

As far as taking up all the good spots – that idea is ludicrous. What are supposed to do - not hide a cache because someone might be thinking of hiding one in that exact spot. There are plenty of areas in the state to hide a cache. When I see a new cache hidden in our neck of the woods by BrianSnat, we can’t wait to go out and find it. I don’t sit there and say “what a jerk Brian is, I was just going to hide one there!”

Keep up the good work Tom.

January 10, 2003

I wrote the statement

"Actually, tneigal, you beat us in placing a cache at this location. We scoped it out last week and planned to put a cache in the exact spot you chose - well done!!"

after finding the Take a Pea cache in South Jersey. Notice I said "well done!!". Just because someone beat me to the punch does not mean I am mad or think tneigel is hiding too many caches. I was too slow - my fault entirely.

I really enjoy your caches, Tom. I too enjoy finding more than 1 in a given area or park, and have found a couple of places that I did not even know existed within 10 miles of my house because of your caches. None are within 500 ft of another (in fact my daughter wished they were closer together when I dragged her to find two that were a couple of miles apart on a bike trail!!).

Keep up the good work

1.3k · January 10, 2003

User S. might want to find more tneigel caches. Cachers who have found a lot of his caches generally see little or no reason to gripe.

In my opinion, if tneigel can maintain 100+ caches then more power to him. Yes, there are caches that are near each other but you'll find that either the hiding technique is very different, or the two areas are interesting in different ways, or the route you'll have to take from one to the other is a lot greater than 500 feet.

January 10, 2003

Tom should get a 'pat on the back' not a 'kick in the rear' - we've always enjoyed his caches no matter how easy or difficult the rating &/or terrain. Great thought is in his placement not to mention his fine-tuned sense of humor. Keep up the great job Tom!

January 10, 2003

First off you alone have helped open up S Jersey by virtue of all your palcements. I don't know how many non-T Neigel geocaches exist in the 856/609 areas but I'd say a lot are yours. If mine disapeared tomorrow there'd still be a lot to look for in Northern jersey. What is amazing is that a lot of yours are in out of the way places, on little known roads, in hidden far away areas where a person isn't likely to go w-o a reason. Quite a difference from what exists in northern nj. Don't sweat it. Although I don't know how you maintain them all, which is about the only concern I could see being even close to valid. But I havent seen any of the "the owners needs to check this out & hasn't" type of logs, so it doesn't seem really relevant.

www.gpswnj.com

January 10, 2003

Thanks to all for such nice comments. I guess I will be careful about new placements.

After the initial email, I got two similar suggestions from two moderators (whom may be reading this too). Actually I'm in the process of rotating some caches out. Some are a little old and worn out, and some just seem to be old hat now. I will still try for those interesting places and keep trying to stump some of you, but its getting harder to do - a challenge! I even have an idea for some holiday specials with limited life spans. Still searching for a place for my upcoming "Biggest Cache in the World." Just wait until you see this one.

Oh, yes, I would love to come south to cache. Leave a light on for me. Be down Tuesday.

Tom

(ps. Shhh. You know why I place so many caches? Hey, I stink at finding them! Hee-hee-hee...)

38.2k · January 10, 2003

Keep at it Tom. Now that I'm working in central NJ, I'll be hunting your caches (once it gets a bit lighter after work).

"Paternalism is the greatist despotism" - Emmanual Kant

January 12, 2003

Tom I think your caches are great I wouldn't cycle any out. I have been in the Pine Barrens twice now and never found any 500 feet apart. Every time we go to find your caches it's a new experience I am planning a few more camping trips to the pine barrens this spring to find more of your exciting caches your style of hiding is fantastic and the scenery is great I really liked the 5 bridges walk. Whoever sent you that email doesn't know any better. I am still searching for a great map of the sand roads. The topos I have are good but maybe this time with the GPS linked to my laptop I will be able to discover more roads. Just wish I kwen the old names of towns and where they were located thats why I am looking for a map. Keep up the great work. You caches are well maintained as I have fund themn and they are never in any bad shape.

Rich

1.3k · January 13, 2003

I use a combination of the topo maps and the ADC Burlington County street atlas. Between the two of those, there are more sand roads mapped out than my car is able to drive on.

January 13, 2003

Tom,

We enjoy your caches and when there are other caches close by it just keeps me from spending too much time in the car and more time caching.

Anyway, my point being....if a cache in bad shape state it in your log or ask the owner if they need help maintaining it. We, all enjoy this hobby...we can all help one another from time to time.

Bob and Jean

[This message was edited by J&B Super Sleuths on January 13, 2003 at 08:40 AM.]

January 13, 2003

We always enjoy the trips you take us on! Even when you make us climb up in the trees! Some of us are able to hide, some of us are able to seek and some of us are able to do both.

From us seekers, "Keep up the good work!"

MTGoldwing

January 14, 2003

Keep it up because people will always complain about something. I can see it already, you remove your caches and a short time later people will be complaining that there are not enough caches. Or some fun will be taken away because more cahchers are running ino each other at chache sites(not that that is a bad thing). Anyway, keep it up so that maybe people can spend more time caching than complaining.

~Ren in Philly

"Democracy is the belief that 20,000 lemmings can't all be wrong."

January 16, 2003

Gee Tom, don't tell "S.." that E places Letterboxes in the Pine Barrens too! Yikes that will really set him going. By the way, my wife and I have enjoyed your caches and E's Letterboxes.

January 24, 2003

Tom,This comment is not worthy of a reply. Keep up the good work. You have done a great service for promoting Geocaching here in NJ. Thanks again.

February 1, 2003

Keep hidin 'em Tom,

I'm a newbie to GC, but I've enjoyed your caches so far!

Just so we don't get the same idea though, I'm plaaning a multi for my home town of Gibbsboro soon.

February 4, 2003

I've been hoping that I could place a cache in my home town before Tom got there, but then -- somebody else got there first! He even picked the spot I'd chosen! How dare he?

Oh, well. My cache will go somewhere else in town, and it'll be a multicache, inspired by "5 Little Bridges", which was so much fun.

Too many caches placed by Tneigel in New Jersey? Thoughts..

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