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Polgara

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I went and took a walk this morning, and when i got back to my house, I proceded to 'de-tick' myself. I guess they are taking advantage of this spell of warm weather as well. So far this morning, I've pulled off 8 ticks, mainly on my clothes, and 2 of which were deer ticks. Over the last few days, I've pulled off 4 other ticks following my cache hunts. Watch out all, the ticks are waiting...and they are very hungry and determined.

 

True-North

 

"The more I study nature, the more I am amazed at the Creator."

- Louis Pasteur

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I've found a grand total of 1 tick on myself in 25 some years of hiking and backpacking and 6 years of working on an archaeological dig in a tick infested meadow. Maybe it's all the garlic I eat? I walked through the meadow last season along with another guy. He pulled off a half dozen ticks and I had none.

 

Same goes for mosquitos. While others are being drained of their blood, I go pretty much untouched.

 

"An appeaser is one who keeps feeding a crocodile-hoping it will eat him last" -Winston Churchill

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Although I have not had many on me either, I appreciate the original post. There are areas where ticks ARE a real problem and knowing that ahead of time can be beneficial to other cachers. Besides, it is quite early for them to be out in force and many people may not be expecting them.

 

In checking the profile, it seems the original poster caches in the SE PA /Delaware area.

 

Thank you for the information.

 

Salvelinus

 

goldfish.gif

"The trail will be long and full of frustrations. Life is a whole and good and evil must be accepted together"

 

Ralph Abele

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Found one deer tick on me after sunday's caching. Anytime the temp is above freezing, you need to check for ticks after hiking here in the NE (unless you are on Brian's garlic diet!).

 

Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon.

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You guys have me nervous now. I wouldn't have teh slightest idea what/how to look. Plus once I come in the door at my studio apartment they probably jump into the carpet!!

 

Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine.

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quote:
Originally posted by BrianSnat:

I've found a grand total of 1 tick on myself in 25 some years of hiking and backpacking and 6 years of working on an archaeological dig in a tick infested meadow. Maybe it's all the garlic I eat? I walked through the meadow last season along with another guy. He pulled off a half dozen ticks and I had none.

 

Same goes for mosquitos. While others are being drained of their blood, I go pretty much untouched.

 


 

That is amazing!!

 

We hike in the same area that you do and there is not a day that goes by during the Spring/Summer/Fall where someone in our crew does not have a tick on them after a hike. However, I expect that. I don't have a phobia of ticks - it's part of hiking in this area. I understand that the threat of lyme disease is real but I'm not going to freak out when I get a tick on me. Over the last 5 or 6 years we have probably had 250 ticks on us (between me, the kids, & the dog) & luckly have never had a problem with lyme or anything else.

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After doing a major cache run this past Sunday in N. New Jersey one of our group (me) was bitten in the side by a tick. icon_eek.gif This creature was not discovered until the next morning. icon_mad.gif After removing and bagging the tick I was off to the Dr. for a tetnus shot and further instructions. The Dr infact identified the tick as a Deer tick and gave me two pills to take that day (Doxycycline). Now I sit and wait for 30 days to pass and hope I don't get any unexplained fever or the bullseye rash. icon_frown.gif I actually thought for a minute that I didn't want to cache anymore icon_frown.gif... then I downloaded the cooridinates for this weekends cache run! Coastal Connecticut here we come! icon_biggrin.gif

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My only explaination for my resistance to ticks is that I take daily garlic suppliments and use a lot of it in my cooking. I've heard that it does have an effect on insects. The only problem is that I haven't had a date in 8 years.

 

"An appeaser is one who keeps feeding a crocodile-hoping it will eat him last" -Winston Churchill

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quote:
Originally posted by EscapeVa:

>snip< The Dr infact identified the tick as a Deer tick and gave me two pills to take that day [Doxycycline). Now I sit and wait for 30 days to pass and hope I don't get any unexplained fever or the bullseye rash. >snip<


 

The good news is - it's more likely than not that you didn't get lyme from your little hitchhiker. I've also only had a few ticks grab hold in my many years in the woods, but my son (who we've always checked closely for ticks) had gotten Lyme and been through the antibiotic regimen.

 

For me at least, the benefits of enjoying the outdoors far outweigh the risks of Lyme, West Nile, Tetnus, hantavirus, etc...

 

Good luck!

 

- HartClimbs

 

If someone did you a favor - something big, something you couldn't do on your own, and instead of paying it back, you paid it forward to three people...

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I hunted 2 caches today in Garrett Mountain and I plucked six ticks off me when I got in the car. I hate ticks more than I hate any other bug (well aside fom cockroaches) and I am really scared of Lyme Disease. Can't you also catch rocky mountain spotted fever or something like that from certain ticks? wwww Im gettin itchy...

 

I definately have to pick up some good repellant and a pair of gators if Im gonna enjoy any warm weather caching this year.

 

Its funny I never fear touching poison ivy, or poison oak or any poisonous plants or snakes, but I almost always get a tick(s) on me.

 

Is this like a practical joke from God cause he knows how much I hate them? Nah I doubt it, my house has no cockroaches!!!

 

Kar

 

TEAM SHIBBY!!!!

 

Krs, Kar & Na

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Garrett Mountain Reservation is located in Paterson, NJ. There is a very large population of deer in this park as well, so lyme ticks should never be ruled out.

 

I once was bitten by a tick and got the "RED" circle around the bite area. I bagged the sucker up and took him to the Doc. Luckily they tested the tick before plucking me with any needles. Turned out to be a wood tick...Whewwww icon_smile.gif

 

TEAM SHIBBY!!!!

 

Krs, Kar & Na

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quote:
Originally posted by HartClimbs:

 

The good news is - it's more likely than not that you _didn't_ get lyme from your little hitchhiker. I've also only had a few ticks grab hold in my many years in the woods, but my son (who we've always checked closely for ticks) had gotten Lyme and been through the antibiotic regimen.

 

For me at least, the benefits of enjoying the outdoors far outweigh the risks of Lyme, West Nile, Tetnus, hantavirus, etc...

 

Good luck!

 

- HartClimbs

 

_If someone did you a favor - something big, something you couldn't do on your own, and instead of paying it back, you paid it forward to three people..._


Don't get too cocky, Hartclimbs. In parts of Jersey there is a 50-50 chance of a deer tick having lyme. Yout best best is to set aside a set of "cache clothes" and treat them with permythrin, as well as use deet on your skin.

I worked outside in tick infested areas for 6yrs and rarely even found a tick on me, while co-workers would often find a dozen.

 

Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon.

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I got bit by a tick last April while in Oregon Ridge Park, MD and was very worried about Lyme. We pulled it off but didn't think to save it just incase. We did call the department of health and they sent a little leaflet that says:

 

If You Find a Tick

 

Remove the tick from your skin right away. Ticks need to be attached 24 to 48 hours to infect you with Lyme disease.

 

Use tweezers to grip the tick as close to the skin as you can and pull it out. If tweezers are not available, use your fingers wearing gloves

or a tissue.

 

Clean the bite with alcohol.

 

Save the tick in a closed and labeled jar or plastic bag in case identification is needed. If symptoms develop, call the Department of

Agriculture at (410)-841-5870 for tick identification.

 

Mark the calendar on the date you found the tick. If a rash develops or you expereince other symptoms within 3 to 32 days, call your physician

immediately.

 

Obviously that information should apply to Maryland only. It also had a little insert on prevention:

 

Wear light-colored, long-sleeved shirts and pants that you can tuck into your socks when working or walking in areas likely to have ticks.

 

Spray insect repellant containing DEET (up to 30% for adults, 20% for children) on clothes and on exposed skin other than the face before going in to tick infested areas. Use the spray only a couple of times a day for only a day or two at a time. Treat clothes (especially pants, socks, and shoes) with permethrin, which kills ticks on contact.

 

Inspect for ticks every three to four hours during the day and at the end of the day. Look along the hairline, in the hair and ears, and where your clothing fits snugly.

 

Unfortunatly it doesnt say how to use permethrin but I assume there would be directions on the product. I also think most deer ticks don't tend to be out and about untill late May. I could be wrong. We just pulled off the one I had and kept an eye out for symptoms. Nothing happened though. I hope that might have helped a bit. For me the rule of thumb is to be cautious, not paranoid.

 

Some mornings, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.

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Well, while out in Ramapo Reservation, I did lots of hiking. I didn't find any on me all day but when I got home, sure enough there one was attaching itself to my shinbone. Not a common place for them to attach, but I guess this one was hungry and couldnt wait to find a warmer spot.

 

I am just as interested in learning how you apply permethrin to your clothes. Better yet, where do you buy it? Is this a common repellant in stores like Kmart, Target and such or do you have to go to a camping/outdoor specialty store such as Campmor or Ramsey Outdoor?

 

I hate these bugs plenty and am willing to try anything to keep em away from me.

 

1 more thing, is permethrin the stuff that melts plastic? Like if you get it on your GPS it will discolor it? I dont want that to happen either!!!

 

Thanks for any help!! Kar!!

 

TEAM SHIBBY!!!!

 

Krs, Kar & Na

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Permethrin is the chemical name, it's marketed under lots of different brands. Its most commonly found in retails stores as a spray. Any good outdoor-type store should carry it year round. I know places like Walmart and Target carry during the summer months in the same area as the camping stuff. Depending on which brand you trust (it's all the same concentration), it lasts for 2-6 washings or 2-6 weeks, whichever comes first. You basically take your geocache clothing outside, spray everything down real well, and hang it up to dry for a few hours.

You can also mailorder a mil-spec concentrate. I've never found the concetrate retail. This is potent stuff, and expensive. You need to soak your clothes in it. The plus side is one treatment is good for about a year.

 

I just checked the web and found a decent site that goes in depth:

http://www.permethrin-repellent.com

 

Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon.

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quote:
Originally posted by ExiledAngel:

Remove the tick from your skin right away. Ticks need to be attached 24 to 48 hours to infect you with Lyme disease.


 

This is a popular myth but unfortunately it is completely untrue. The lyme bacteria is contained in the saliva of the tick and infection can occur immediately. I had lyme disease and I can tell you that it’s no joke. I was out of work for more than 5 months. I made the mistake of getting involved with some of the lyme support/advocacy groups and found these people to be completely bonkers. These people are true fatalists and I didn’t begin to recover until I separated myself from them. Some claim that mosquitoes are spreading lyme as well.

 

The reality is that according to the CDC only about 2 per cent of ticks carry lyme. They do acknowledge that several different types of ticks carry lyme at this point. Because it is difficult to diagnose and is an easy fit for the hypochondriac set, lyme disease is deeply swirled in controversy.

 

Team Shibby> a bullseye rash at the tick bite site is generally proof positive of lyme infection.

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quote:
Originally posted by Bluehook:

The reality is that according to the CDC only about 2 per cent of ticks carry lyme. They do acknowledge that several different types of ticks carry lyme at this point. Because it is difficult to diagnose and is an easy fit for the hypochondriac set, lyme disease is deeply swirled in controversy.

 

Team Shibby> a bullseye rash at the tick bite site is generally proof positive of lyme infection.


I searched the CDC website for quite some time without finding the ref to only 2% of ticks are infected. If it's true, I would guess thats a national avg. Since the small mid-atlantic region contains 90% of the cases of Lyme reported nationally, I'm guessing that number is alot higher here in NJ. According to the Hunterdon County Department of Health, that NJ county ranks 3rd highest in the nation in reported cases of Lyme. 40% of adult ticks in that county are infected with Lyme. Please don't downplay the risks.

 

Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon.

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A year-and-a-half ago I got bit by an adult female deer tick in October. I was caching in Westchester County which had a 33% chance that a tick is infected with Lyme. Probably worse now. Anyway I tested the tick and it was positive. I was on antibiotics for a month.

 

Last fall I found 3 ticks on my poodle. (I give him Frontline monthly during tick season. One or two of the three ticks where stuck in but appeared dead) but I still went to the vet concerned about Lyme. Funny thing in one way was there was no Lyme; but he picked up Rocky Mountain SPotted Fever. We had him on antibiotics for about 2-3 weeks.

 

My sisters ex picked up Lyme on his small farm in Virginia. It was so bad he came down with a case similar to Bell's palsy where half your face "collapses" due to no muscle control. He's OK now but was on very heavy antibiotics for a long time.

 

Protect yourself, your family and your pets. This stuff is not something to play around with.

 

Alan

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Prior to going out this weekend I read this thread and was like...it has been about 16 years since I had a tick on me. Not thinking much about it while I was out throught hte brush and brambles I went. My friend and I get near the cache site and there they were about 16 ticks apiece. Three hours later I was still pulling ticks of me. Now I remember why I prefer winter caching!

 

"Democracy is the belief that 20,000 lemmings can't all be wrong."

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quote:
Originally posted by Mopar:

_40% of adult ticks_ in that county are infected with Lyme. Please don't downplay the risks.


 

No downplay intended, like I said, I had lyme disease and it really kicked my butt. I'm actually on the verge of hysteria when it comes to lyme and ticks because of my exposure to both lyme and the "lyme people." Credibile info about lyme disease changes quickly. I make no challenge to the 40% claim. The CDC has declared lyme as the "number 1" infectious disease for 2003. We all need to be cautious.

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quote:
Originally posted by Team Shibby:

1 more thing, is permethrin the stuff that melts plastic? Like if you get it on your GPS it will discolor it? I dont want that to happen either!!!

 

Thanks for any help!! Kar!!

 

http://www.teamshibby.com

 

Krs, Kar & Na


Forgot to answer this part. Sorry.

DEET is the stuff that damages plastic if you arent careful. DEET is the active ingredient in most skin applied repellents, like Deep Woods Off. The strong stuff can actually melt some plastics!

Just remember, permethrin doesn't work on bare skin, and deet doesnt work on clothing. Yo need to use both if you plan on going off-trail in NJ.

 

Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon.

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quote:
Originally posted by Bluehook:

[...] Because it is difficult to diagnose and is an easy fit for the hypochondriac set, lyme disease is deeply swirled in controversy.

 

Team Shibby> a bullseye rash at the tick bite site is generally proof positive of lyme infection.


 

If in a doubt, see your doctor - the blood test should be reliable. My symptomps were: sleep difficulties, then fever - I attributed these to last July extremely hot weather (my 1st summer in NJ, too) - then I found a strange triangular rash on my chest and remembered I was bitten by a tick when hiking on Middle Hudson 2 weeks ago. To the doctor it looked more like an alergy but prescribed Cipro anyway just to be safe - then when a positive blood test results came, I spent the rest of summer on doxycycline (not very nice, it increases your sensitivity to sunlight, I was getting burned whenever going out in a T-shirt).

No experiences with Lyme support groups, what's the problem with them? Of course you shouldn't use them as a substitute for a doctor...

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quote:
Originally posted by Haggaeus:

...the blood test should be reliable...


 

There exists no reliable blood test for lyme disease. The two most popular are the ELISA and the Western Blot that test for lyme antebodies -- both have been labled unreliable by the CDC, the NIH and the FDA. A diagnosis of lyme disease is made clinically after a known tick bite in an endemnic region followed by a bullseye rash and lyme type symptoms.

 

NIH lyme diagnose

CDC lyme diagnose

FDA bulletin - http://www.fda.gov/medbull/summer99/Lyme.html

 

[This message was edited by Bluehook on March 24, 2003 at 11:01 PM.]

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I'm glad to see everyone contributing to the tick discussion, its important stuff to be aware of.

 

As far as diagnoses of Lyme disease, most tests are unreliable because they are serologic, and they test for antibodies, this includes the blood screen, ELISA, and the western blot, with western blot most reliable. They are unreliable because it takes your body a few weeks to develop the necessary amount of antibody to be significant for a test result. THerefore if you go to the Dr. after you remove the tick, and they take your blood, the test will be negative because your body hasn't had enough timme to respond to the bacteria, even though you may be carrying the infectious bacteria. Most Drs. won't wait the time it would take you to make enough antibody and then take the blood test for the results, but they will order the test anyway.

 

There are two ticks that carry Lyme disease infecting bacteria, one on the east coast and one on the west. The ticks must feed for at least 24-36 hrs to transmit the bacteria.

 

Keep in mind, ticks also transmit Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever.

 

Ticks won't keep me from geocaching, so have fun and enjoy cache hunting all!!

 

True-North icon_cool.gif

 

"The more I study nature, the more I am amazed at the Creator."

- Louis Pasteur

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I don't think Cipro is effective on LYme. If I recall when I got bit, I asked my doctor for Cipro (that's when we had those Anthrax cases in Washington DC - I figured if I had to get an antibiotic, it might as well be Cipro) But he said even if you could get it, it wasn't the drug to be used against Lyme. I believe he prescibe Doxycilin or some derivative.

 

Alan

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How long must a tick that is infected with the Lyme disease bacteria be attached to a person before the bacteria is transmitted to the person?

Summary of "answers" from the references below:

-----------------------------------------------

 

"as soon as they bite"

three hours

a few hours

several hours

after only 6 hours

after 8 hours

many hours

12-24 hours

16-24 hours

18-49 hours

less than 24 hours

as early as 24 hours

at least 24 hours

24 hours

more than 24 hours

24-48 hours

36 hours

36-24 hours

36-48 hours

42 hours

48 hours/2 days

after 48 hours

72 hours

greater than or equal to 72 hours

some days

 

See complete file with references at:

 

Lyme disease and tick attachment duration http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Oasis/6455/tick-attachment.txt

 

Also see:

 

Antibiotic Prophylaxis After Tick Bite For Prevention Of Lyme Disease -

An Annotated Bibliography http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Oasis/6455/prophylaxis-biblio.html

 

For more information about Lyme disease, see:

 

Lots Of Links On Lyme Disease http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Oasis/6455/lyme-links.html

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Wear appropriate clothing, long pants, light colors make it easier to see the ticks.

Take advantage of modern science! Treat your caching clothes with permethrin, and use some form of deet on your skin.

Do a basic tick check after a cache before getting in your car. Run a fine comb thru your hair.

As soon as you get home, strip naked and do a complete check (this can be fun with a friend of the opposite sex!). Ticks tend to like warm, moist areas, like groin and armpits.

Remove ticks asap. Don't burn or smother them. Do use tweezers, tick remover, or straw/thread.

Save tick and watch for signs of bullseye rash. If your really paranoid, or have great health insurance, go to doc and start antibiotics.

If tick has been embedded for some time, or you notice a bullseye rash, go to doctor asap.

Did I miss anything?

 

Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon.

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quote:
Originally posted by Mopar:

+ Do a basic tick check after a cache before getting in your car. Run a fine comb thru your hair.


 

Of course, you should also wear a hat.

 

quote:
Originally posted by Mopar:

+ As soon as you get home, strip naked and do a complete check (this can be fun with a friend of the opposite sex!). Ticks tend to like warm, moist areas, like groin and armpits.


 

And under watchbands. Happened to me three times so far.

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As I stumbled into the bathroom this morning, I looked into the mirror and saw an attached tick waving to me from the center of my chest. Before reading this thread I wouldn't have been that concerned but now I'm paranoid. Depending on which of my finds from yesterday that he jumped on, he was attached from 13 to 18 hours. I though Hart was kidding about leaving ticks as signature items icon_wink.gif Now I guess it's off to my GP with my tick in a ziplock. Wish me luck.

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I can relate to BeeGees. I haven't even seen a tick in all my years of running around the woods, but after reading the thread I am perhaps too acutely aware of them.

 

In addition, I am a little boggled why I have not witnessed any of these marauders. In my area, the only place I have heard mention of tick danger is Presque Isle in Erie. That doesn't mean they are not all around me, but I have not heard a great deal of discussion on them.

 

Like Brian, I also seem to make an unattractive target for mosquitoes and insect pests. While everyone around me gets bit up by mosquitoes, fleas and other blood suckers, I go unscathed.

 

However, I have heard this attributed to a certain biochemistry rather than a diet. While I enjoy garlic, I don't eat it regularly. Additionally, my father is regarded by insects in the same manner as I, while my mother and three brothers are constantly harassed.

 

I guess I must be either lucky or ignorant, as I have been tick-free thus far in all my years of camping, hiking and other outdoor activity.

 

Now watch me get ambushed by the little bloodsuckers the next time I go caching. icon_wink.gif

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I found one on my back chomping on a mole! Got it out and its baby further down. Went to doc and started blood test for lyme.

 

I think it got on my knapsack when I put it on the ground. Be careful with your stuff when you rest.

 

I'll keep you posted on my tests!

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>>Forgot to answer this part. Sorry.

DEET is the stuff that damages plastic if you arent careful. DEET is the active ingredient in most skin applied repellents, like Deep Woods Off. The strong stuff can actually melt some plastics!

Just remember, permethrin doesn't work on bare skin, and deet doesnt work on clothing. Yo need to use both if you plan on going off-trail in NJ.<<<

 

Are both of these ok to use on/for children? I remember reading a while ago that Deet wasn't good for infants, but don't remember what age they said it was ok for.

 

Thanks! Found a tick halfway in my 6 year old's head last week!

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I wouldn't use DEET on a infant. It can be used on children, but in lower concentrations (less than 10%). Check with your pediatrician if in doubt.

 

The dangers of DEET haven't been proven, but the dangers of insect borne diseases like West Nile Virus, Lyme, Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever and Babesiosis are real and possibly life threatening. I'll take my chances with DEET.

 

"You can only protect your liberties in this world, by protecting the other man's freedom. "You can only be free if I am" -Clarence Darrow

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Hi there little tick!! What's that you say? You're clairvoyant? I see...well since you failed to tell me where the cache is, how bout I flick you off my shirt and into next week, ...you ready? 3, 2, 1...LIFTOFF!!!! LOL! ...did you see that coming little tick?

 

"The more I study nature, the more I am amazed at the Creator."

- Louis Pasteur

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There's a good article on repellants in the newest issue of Consumer Reports

 

Accordingm to the article 3M Ultrathon & Off! Deep woods for sportsmen were the best but are pricey. A good inexpensive choice is Bug Out. They said Repel Permanone (with permethrin) gave protection TO CLOTHES for nearly 2 full weeks. Pricey though AT $5 for 2 applications. So if you've got a dedicated set of geocaching attire, this might be the way to go if you cache a lot. Considering my plans for the summer this might not be a bad idea, but my question is: will washing your clothes kill the effectiveness? I would think so, so either you're gonna reek after a week or else you'll go thru it a lot faster.

 

I didnt see this thread till today, when i looked for it. Found a visitor last night when I was getting ready for bed. GAH! It was 33 freaking degrees out! Dont these little dudes know it's not summer yet???

 

Sheesh.

 

william

 

alt.gif

 

www.gpswnj.com

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quote:
Originally posted by Gwho:

They said Repel Permanone (with permethrin) gave protection TO CLOTHES for nearly 2 full weeks. Pricey though AT $5 for 2 applications. So if you've got a dedicated set of geocaching attire, this might be the way to go if you cache a lot. Considering my plans for the summer this might not be a bad idea, but my question is: will washing your clothes kill the effectiveness? I would think so, so either you're gonna reek after a week or else you'll go thru it a lot faster.


If I remember the Repel can correct, it was effective for 2 weeks or 2 washings, whichever comes first. If you only cache on weekends like most people, thats only $1.25 for a weekend of protection from Lyme. Cheaper then a bottle of water, a gallon of gas, or a burger. Doesn't seem that pricey.

I would still like to find a local source for the mil spec stuff. Thats good for 1 year.

 

Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon.

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