Using a Travel Bug Code on (Many Duplicate) Sig Items

[+bluesbrosfan]

What do you want to do?

 

1. Make a bunch of sig items from scratch (like small wooden discs with some simple hand-drawn artwork or quote on it)

2. Buy a single travel bug

3. Put the (same) travel bug code on ALL the sig items

4. Release them into the world one at a time as swag in caches that I visit

5. Encourage people to take them, leave them, keep them, or pass them on, and to log it using the travel bug code.

 

Why would you want to do this?

 

I think it would be cool to see where they end up, and who has touched my sig items, but I don't really care about keeping track of each of them individually.

 

Isn't the functionality you are seeking exactly like how (indistinctly mumbled trade name) work?

 

Yes. Exactly like (mumble mumble mumble). Except it would be:

a. way cheaper this way, and

b. trackable at geocaching.com instead of somewhere else, which I view as a huge advantage

c. possible to make each sig item a little bit different and unique.

 

So why wouldn't you be able to do it?

 

Well there's this from the travel bug info: "Virtual trackables with virtual logs are not encouraged. It is up to the trackable owner to state if they allow this, and delete any bogus logs."

 

I'm not sure if this counts as a "virtual" trackable or not... in my view, it doesn't, because it would be intended to be logged by people who physically encounter the sig items. But it's clearly not using the service for the purpose for which it was intended, either. I don't want to make a bunch of sig items and then have the logging get disabled because I wan't playing by the rules.

 

Any insight?

[+kunarion]

I don't want to make a bunch of sig items and then have the logging get disabled because I wan't playing by the rules.

Aye, there's the rub.

 

I think the current policy tends toward having the TB Owner clean up the logs, rather than GS locking it. It's not uncommon to have a bunch of items with the same tracking number. Five years ago, I was handed a pen at an Event, part of a bunch, all the same number. But I never logged it.

 

Anyway, if it somehow gets locked (remember if you get a buh-zillion logs somehow, you may prefer to lock it yourself), you're only out one TB. Yet finders can still read its page, even if they can't log it.

Edited February 17, 2016 by kunarion

[+cerberus1]

Guess I don't get it...

Edited February 17, 2016 by cerberus1

[+bluesbrosfan]

Guess I don't get it...

 

The logic in doing this is just to see where my sig items end up. It's the same reason why someone would bother to make a trackable trackable... they want to see what happens to it. If one ends up in Oregon and one ends up in Texas, it would be cool to know that, but I don't really care WHICH one ended up in which place, which is why I don't need to uniquely track each individual one.

 

And it's the same reason people pay $110.00 for 50 of a certain other product that does the same thing.

[+bluesbrosfan]

I don't want to make a bunch of sig items and then have the logging get disabled because I wan't playing by the rules.

...Anyway, if it somehow gets locked (remember if you get a buh-zillion logs somehow, you may prefer to lock it yourself), you're only out one TB. Yet finders can still read its page, even if they can't log it.

 

You know, that's a GREAT point. So there would still be some measure of functionality, and a place for people to "interact" with it, even if it doesn't work.

 

Follow-up question, if you know: if I do this, Groundspeak wouldn't get punish ME, right? The worst that could happen (assuming I otherwise play by the rules) is that the TB gets locked, right?

[+kunarion]

The logic in doing this is just to see where my sig items end up. It's the same reason why someone would bother to make a trackable trackable... they want to see what happens to it. If one ends up in Oregon and one ends up in Texas, it would be cool to know that, but I don't really care WHICH one ended up in which place, which is why I don't need to uniquely track each individual one.

I've made some of my own serialized items. They're Swag (trade items, not Officially Trackable On Geocaching.com), each one with a different number. Some cachers make things like that (numbereded or not) and request an email when it's found. I didn't request an email, but I've gotten a handful of emails anyway, asking how to log it, or expressing how very cool it is (hey, they're kind of impressed. No, really). That's more action than I've gotten on several of my Official Trackables.

 

But using a Tracking Number, you get more online features, built-in.

[+NanCycle]

Here's an example of the same idea:

 

https://www.geocaching.com/track/details.aspx?tracker=aca50z

[+kunarion]

Here's an example of the same idea:

 

https://www.geocaching.com/track/details.aspx?tracker=aca50z

Wow! Those are sweet!

[+cerberus1]

Here's an example of the same idea:

 

https://www.geocaching.com/track/details.aspx?tracker=aca50z

 

Kinda surprised Groundspeak's okay with that (and the OP's idea).

One or two replacements for missing maybe, but sending out hundreds with the same code on purpose is some serious revenue lost.

[+bluesbrosfan]

Here's an example of the same idea:

 

https://www.geocaching.com/track/details.aspx?tracker=aca50z

 

Bingo. Exactly! Thank you!

[+dprovan]

I once found a trackable like this. The log was locked. So from that, I'm guessing the same would happen to yours.

[+Manville Possum]

I once found a trackable like this. The log was locked. So from that, I'm guessing the same would happen to yours.

 

We now have the option to lock trackables ourselves. I think that GS has loosened up on their control of our trackables.

 

I would set the trackable as collectable, that would exclude the grab option and the sig item would just be swag.

[+Great Scott!]

Seems to me it could be very confusing.

I retrieve one from a geocache. But I have to grab it from someone else.

Now that other person wants to leave their copy in a geocache.

But they no longer have the trackable in their inventory. If they are lucky, they can grab it back.

If not they leave in a geocache for someone else to deal with.

Very confusing for newby geocachers just learning about trackables.

Edited February 18, 2016 by Great Scott!

[+bluesbrosfan]

I would set the trackable as collectable, that would exclude the grab option and the sig item would just be swag.

 

Sounds reasonable and appropriate.

 

Thanks all for you input. I'm going to give it a shot and see what happens. I won't make too many, just a few to start, and see how things go.

[Keystone]

I would not assume that your trackable wouldn't be locked. You paid for one tracking code. If you send out ten trackable items you should pay for ten tracking codes. If you want to be absolutely sure, write an email to Geocaching HQ via the Help Center. Select option 5, trackables, to categorize your inquiry. If you hear back, please share the advice here!

[+irisisleuk]

Seems to me it could be very confusing.

I retrieve one from a geocache. But I have to grab it from someone else.

Now that other person wants to leave their copy in a geocache.

But they no longer have the trackable in their inventory. If they are lucky, they can grab it back.

If not they leave in a geocache for someone else to deal with.

Very confusing for newby geocachers just learning about trackables.

 

Completely agree!

From the logs of the example mentioned by NanCycle it's clear even experienced geocachers don't understand what is going on.

What if this would be the first trackable you found? I can imagine you might think it is allowed to keep all trackables you find after such an experience.

There might be an explanation on the trackable's page, but a lot cachers in non-English speaking countries wouldn't understand. They get annoyed by someone grabbing a trackable they have just logged and still have in their possession, is that really what you want?

Please don't use trackable codes on (on more than one) signature items.

[+dprovan]

I once found a trackable like this. The log was locked. So from that, I'm guessing the same would happen to yours.

We now have the option to lock trackables ourselves. I think that GS has loosened up on their control of our trackables.

In the locked TB's page, the owner said GS locked the TB because of the burden on the logging system, so I see no reason to think they'd be more tolerant today.

[+Great Scott!]

I would set the trackable as collectable, that would exclude the grab option and the sig item would just be swag.

 

Sounds reasonable and appropriate.

 

Thanks all for you input. I'm going to give it a shot and see what happens. I won't make too many, just a few to start, and see how things go.

 

Setting it as collectible would also not allow it to be placed in geocaches and to accrue mileage.

[+kunarion]

I would set the trackable as collectable, that would exclude the grab option and the sig item would just be swag.

 

Sounds reasonable and appropriate.

 

Thanks all for you input. I'm going to give it a shot and see what happens. I won't make too many, just a few to start, and see how things go.

 

Setting it as collectible would also not allow it to be placed in geocaches and to accrue mileage.

It must also be placed into the Owner's "Collection". Don't overlook that step, if the intention is to limit logs to discover and note.

[+bluesbrosfan]

Setting it as collectible would also not allow it to be placed in geocaches and to accrue mileage.

 

I'm totally fine with that.

[+bluesbrosfan]

I once found a trackable like this. The log was locked. So from that, I'm guessing the same would happen to yours.

We now have the option to lock trackables ourselves. I think that GS has loosened up on their control of our trackables.

In the locked TB's page, the owner said GS locked the TB because of the burden on the logging system, so I see no reason to think they'd be more tolerant today.

 

But when was it locked? Before or after the policy was changed regarding virtual logs? Can you link that particular trackable log?

[+bluesbrosfan]

I would not assume that your trackable wouldn't be locked. You paid for one tracking code. If you send out ten trackable items you should pay for ten tracking codes. If you want to be absolutely sure, write an email to Geocaching HQ via the Help Center. Select option 5, trackables, to categorize your inquiry. If you hear back, please share the advice here!

 

Will do!

[+dprovan]

I once found a trackable like this. The log was locked. So from that, I'm guessing the same would happen to yours.

We now have the option to lock trackables ourselves. I think that GS has loosened up on their control of our trackables.

In the locked TB's page, the owner said GS locked the TB because of the burden on the logging system, so I see no reason to think they'd be more tolerant today.

But when was it locked? Before or after the policy was changed regarding virtual logs? Can you link that particular trackable log?

I'm not too interested in tracking it down since it was a few years ago -- 2011 or so? -- and, being locked, I didn't file a log on it that I can look up. But from the TO's presentation of the situation, the objection wasn't that any of the logs were virtual, which makes sense because they weren't: each logger was looking at a legitimate version of the TB.

[+bluesbrosfan]

I ran this by GS, which was kindly suggested by one of you, and their response was consistent with all of the comments here.

 

Short version:

1. It's not against the rules.

2. GS would rather I didn't do this because it's confusing.

 

Long version:

"Thanks for writing in to us. While there's no definitive "rule" against setting out multiple trackables with the same tracking code, we strongly discourage it. Typically when this is done, it results in a lot of confusion among players who find the trackable in a cache and log it as "retrieved" only to have it grabbed from them immediately by someone else who's also just found a different trackable with the same code. Often these folks write to Geocaching HQ, and we end up contacting the Trackable Owner to ask them to lock the trackable or eliminate some of the pieces until there's only one with a unique code."

 

My view:

I find that logic persuasive, though frustrating, especially since there is a non-GS product that does exactly the same thing. There ought to be a better way. It's nice to have clarity on this: no rule prevents it. But it's frustrating that it there isn't a simple way to log discoveries and collections of multiple identical sig items, especially since a non-GS product provides this exact functionality.

 

Thanks to all who offered suggestions and responses.

[Keystone]

I appreciate your following up.

 

Perhaps by keeping the trackable in your "collection" so that only discoveries are allowed on the multiple items, there won't be the same confusion as when duplicate trackables are out in the wild and being grabbed willy-nilly? Though there's also a risk that someone would write in and complain that they found the trackable in a cache but can do nothing except log a "discovered."

[+dprovan]

My view:

I find that logic persuasive, though frustrating, especially since there is a non-GS product that does exactly the same thing. There ought to be a better way. It's nice to have clarity on this: no rule prevents it. But it's frustrating that it there isn't a simple way to log discoveries and collections of multiple identical sig items, especially since a non-GS product provides this exact functionality.

The cause of the confusion, and your frustration, is simply that a trackable is not the right tool for what you want to accomplish.

[+Walts Hunting]

Here's an example of the same idea:

 

https://www.geocaching.com/track/details.aspx?tracker=aca50z

 

Kinda surprised Groundspeak's okay with that (and the OP's idea).

One or two replacements for missing maybe, but sending out hundreds with the same code on purpose is some serious revenue lost.

I don't think it is that GS is actually OK with it so much as they have given up any hope of controlling the situation. There are better things to do.

[Pup Patrol]

Argh, aren't trackables confusing / messed up enough?

 

B.

[+Walts Hunting]

Just a good example of Chaos theory. If an infinate number of monkeys put out an infinite number of TB's will any be right.

[+bluesbrosfan]

Just a good example of Chaos theory. If an infinate number of monkeys put out an infinite number of TB's will any be right.

 

No. But if you combine all the tracking codes, at some point in the list you will find the text of the script for Hamlet, sans spaces and punctuation.

[+RosiesDaddyBear]

Just a good example of Chaos theory. If an infinate number of monkeys put out an infinite number of TB's will any be right.

 

No. But if you combine all the tracking codes, at some point in the list you will find the text of the script for Hamlet, sans spaces and punctuation.

 

I thought it was Macbeth?

 

On topic, the first 'trackable' I ever found was just a business card advertising a Mega event not too far away. It had a TB code on it and I wrongly assumed that it was unique. I grabbed it from some cacher in Romainia and cursed (privately) them for not logging it properly! I then dropped it in another cache. It was only when I found my second TB that I realised that the first one was a bit different. I think it's a great idea what you're aiming for but I'm not sure a single TB code is the best way.

 

I have also found one of the non-GS trackable sig items. This was also confusing as I had no real idea how to log it. I found the site that I needed to log it on but I couldn't work out how to do it, and I'm quite literate when it comes to this kind of thing. I ended up just trading it for swag further down the line.

 

I'm currently in the process of designing my own sig items but they wont be trackable. My plan is to just release as many as I can and get very excited if I find one in a new cache that I visit.

 

Keep us informed on how you get on with this, I'm very interested.

 

RDB

[+Walts Hunting]

Just a good example of Chaos theory. If an infinate number of monkeys put out an infinite number of TB's will any be right.

 

No. But if you combine all the tracking codes, at some point in the list you will find the text of the script for Hamlet, sans spaces and punctuation.

Finally someone with a sense of humor about TB's. Good One.

[+bluesbrosfan]

I thought it was Macbeth?

...

 

Keep us informed on how you get on with this, I'm very interested.

 

RDB

 

I think it was The Complete Works of Shakespeare. It probably varies from source to source. I know it's Hamlet according to Douglas Adams, and what other source do you need, really?

 

Regardless, given the feedback from GS, I am going to refrain from moving forward.

[+bluesbrosfan]

I thought it was Macbeth?

...

 

Keep us informed on how you get on with this, I'm very interested.

 

RDB

 

I think it was The Complete Works of Shakespeare. It probably varies from source to source. I know it's Hamlet according to Douglas Adams, and what other source do you need, really?

 

Regardless, given the feedback from GS, I am going to refrain from moving forward.