Throwdown caches

[+Flatiron & Mrs. Wrangler]

I don't get on the discussion forums very often, but just wanted to get this off my chest. I've made a habit of not doing power trails very often, as I've never cared about my number of finds that much. But after going with a few friends Super Bowl weekend on a rural power trail, I really understand how many cheaters there are out there. Some of the cheaters were claiming finds on caches that didn't have their signature on the log sheet, and one group dropped 4 throwdown caches even though the real cache containers were no more than 16' away. One of this group is the so called "Big Fish" (Alamogul)who has 130K caches. I can see how you can accumulate that many caches if you play by these tactics. This is only a game , but if you have to cheat to get a find, then that's pretty pitiful. Anyway, I know this topic has been covered many times before, but I'm interested to see what other cachers think about this kind of stuff. Thanks for listening.

[jholly]

I don't get on the discussion forums very often, but just wanted to get this off my chest. I've made a habit of not doing power trails very often, as I've never cared about my number of finds that much. But after going with a few friends Super Bowl weekend on a rural power trail, I really understand how many cheaters there are out there. Some of the cheaters were claiming finds on caches that didn't have their signature on the log sheet, and one group dropped 4 throwdown caches even though the real cache containers were no more than 16' away. One of this group is the so called "Big Fish" (Alamogul)who has 130K caches. I can see how you can accumulate that many caches if you play by these tactics. This is only a game , but if you have to cheat to get a find, then that's pretty pitiful. Anyway, I know this topic has been covered many times before, but I'm interested to see what other cachers think about this kind of stuff. Thanks for listening.

[+geocat_]

[+BAMBOOZLE]

I don't get on the discussion forums very often, but just wanted to get this off my chest. I've made a habit of not doing power trails very often, as I've never cared about my number of finds that much. But after going with a few friends Super Bowl weekend on a rural power trail, I really understand how many cheaters there are out there. Some of the cheaters were claiming finds on caches that didn't have their signature on the log sheet, and one group dropped 4 throwdown caches even though the real cache containers were no more than 16' away. One of this group is the so called "Big Fish" (Alamogul)who has 130K caches. I can see how you can accumulate that many caches if you play by these tactics. This is only a game , but if you have to cheat to get a find, then that's pretty pitiful. Anyway, I know this topic has been covered many times before, but I'm interested to see what other cachers think about this kind of stuff. Thanks for listening.

 

I'm guessing you know this but PT's are really a subset of geocaching where the finder is encouraged by the CO to do maint on the trail....its a good thing because lots is needed. My wife and another couple did a trail last week where we replaced 99% of the logs which were soaked by a front that came through a few days earlier, in fact my wife's job was to make logs as we proceeded. Several containers which were cracked were replaced. Right or wrong, trails couldn't exist without the continued maint. of finders....bring sacks of logs and containers with you, its the way the PT game is played.

[+L0ne.R]

1455413529[/url]' post='5564728']

1455408625[/url]' post='5564715']

I don't get on the discussion forums very often, but just wanted to get this off my chest. I've made a habit of not doing power trails very often, as I've never cared about my number of finds that much. But after going with a few friends Super Bowl weekend on a rural power trail, I really understand how many cheaters there are out there. Some of the cheaters were claiming finds on caches that didn't have their signature on the log sheet, and one group dropped 4 throwdown caches even though the real cache containers were no more than 16' away. One of this group is the so called "Big Fish" (Alamogul)who has 130K caches. I can see how you can accumulate that many caches if you play by these tactics. This is only a game , but if you have to cheat to get a find, then that's pretty pitiful. Anyway, I know this topic has been covered many times before, but I'm interested to see what other cachers think about this kind of stuff. Thanks for listening.

 

I'm guessing you know this but PT's are really a subset of geocaching where the finder is encouraged by the CO to do maint on the trail....its a good thing because lots is needed. My wife and another couple did a trail last week where we replaced 99% of the logs which were soaked by a front that came through a few days earlier, in fact my wife's job was to make logs as we proceeded. Several containers which were cracked were replaced. Right or wrong, trails couldn't exist without the continued maint. of finders....bring sacks of logs and containers with you, its the way the PT game is played.

 

It's not particularly fair. Especially on decent trails like rail trails and forest trials. Once a PT gets put on a trail, that trail will forever be filled with abandoned low quality, propped up caches. With the PT system, there is no hope that someday that trail might have a mix of owners and maybe a few not-for-the-numbers caches.

[+Flatiron & Mrs. Wrangler]

I could understand somebody doing the CO a favor by replacing a log or entire cache IF there have been consecutive DNF's or notes indicating that the log sheet is wet, or whatever, but in this case I'm sure it is a matter of not wanting to spend time searching for the cache because it cuts into their FIND count for the day. Cache finder maintenance is definitely not the case here, in my opinion.

[+Harry Dolphin]

Someone mentioned in a forum about a cacher who had archived all his caches last year. I checked a few and found that a pair of cachers had gone through to find the archived caches. And, where the archived cache was missing, they threw down a cache so that they could log a find! That's just bizarre!

[+L0ne.R]

1455415556[/url]' post='5564735']

Someone mentioned in a forum about a cacher who had archived all his caches last year. I checked a few and found that a pair of cachers had gone through to find the archived caches. And, where the archived cache was missing, they threw down a cache so that they could log a find! That's just bizarre!

 

Why didn't they just log a find, instead of littering. Sigh.

 

[+Ry Dawg]

That was done to one of mine. It was hidden really well, and had 6 DNFs. The last one dropped off a nano tube and logged as they replaced the "missing" cache.

 

Someone went later that day and found both...

I removed their cache. When it happened again with another user, I ended up just adopting it out.

I was annoyed.

[+niraD]

For reference, see the Help Center article Throwdowns - How to handle them.

[+Touchstone]

Probably not a great idea to call people out directly in the Forum. See #4 of the Forum Guidelines for reference.

[+on4bam]

Probably not a great idea to call people out directly in the Forum.

 

As if locals don't know the cheaters in their area I know I do.

[+Team Microdot]

I don't get on the discussion forums very often, but just wanted to get this off my chest. I've made a habit of not doing power trails very often, as I've never cared about my number of finds that much. But after going with a few friends Super Bowl weekend on a rural power trail, I really understand how many cheaters there are out there. Some of the cheaters were claiming finds on caches that didn't have their signature on the log sheet, and one group dropped 4 throwdown caches even though the real cache containers were no more than 16' away. One of this group is the so called "Big Fish" (Alamogul)who has 130K caches. I can see how you can accumulate that many caches if you play by these tactics. This is only a game , but if you have to cheat to get a find, then that's pretty pitiful. Anyway, I know this topic has been covered many times before, but I'm interested to see what other cachers think about this kind of stuff. Thanks for listening.

 

I'm guessing you know this but PT's are really a subset of geocaching where the finder is encouraged by the CO to do maint on the trail....its a good thing because lots is needed. My wife and another couple did a trail last week where we replaced 99% of the logs which were soaked by a front that came through a few days earlier, in fact my wife's job was to make logs as we proceeded. Several containers which were cracked were replaced. Right or wrong, trails couldn't exist without the continued maint. of finders....bring sacks of logs and containers with you, its the way the PT game is played.

 

Replacing a wet log when you've managed to find the cache placed by the CO is one thing. Replacing the entire cache because investing the effort to actually find it is too costly to you and too much of a risk to your fake find count isn't how the game is played by anyone with any credibility.

[+Touchstone]

Probably not a great idea to call people out directly in the Forum.

 

As if locals don't know the cheaters in their area I know I do.

Your reply only begs the question of why a public airing of grievances is necessary if the information is widely known. I somehow think you would feel differently if you were the target of the accusations, true or not.

[+BAMBOOZLE]

I don't get on the discussion forums very often, but just wanted to get this off my chest. I've made a habit of not doing power trails very often, as I've never cared about my number of finds that much. But after going with a few friends Super Bowl weekend on a rural power trail, I really understand how many cheaters there are out there. Some of the cheaters were claiming finds on caches that didn't have their signature on the log sheet, and one group dropped 4 throwdown caches even though the real cache containers were no more than 16' away. One of this group is the so called "Big Fish" (Alamogul)who has 130K caches. I can see how you can accumulate that many caches if you play by these tactics. This is only a game , but if you have to cheat to get a find, then that's pretty pitiful. Anyway, I know this topic has been covered many times before, but I'm interested to see what other cachers think about this kind of stuff. Thanks for listening.

 

I'm guessing you know this but PT's are really a subset of geocaching where the finder is encouraged by the CO to do maint on the trail....its a good thing because lots is needed. My wife and another couple did a trail last week where we replaced 99% of the logs which were soaked by a front that came through a few days earlier, in fact my wife's job was to make logs as we proceeded. Several containers which were cracked were replaced. Right or wrong, trails couldn't exist without the continued maint. of finders....bring sacks of logs and containers with you, its the way the PT game is played.

 

Replacing a wet log when you've managed to find the cache placed by the CO is one thing. Replacing the entire cache because investing the effort to actually find it is too costly to you and too much of a risk to your fake find count isn't how the game is played by anyone with any credibility.

 

I agree but again a PT is a different animal. Two or three containers at GZ is no problem for the CO....they serve as back up at that particular location. Throwdowns, in general, are appreciated by PT CO's. On most PT's caches are very easy to find ( base of sign or telephone pole, etc )so its easy to determine if the cache is there. On the one we did last week all containers were well camo'ed micros hidden inside the tree line and many were tough to find ( only qualified as a PT because caches were close together and along the same road )so we replaced only containers we found that were broken.

[+on4bam]

Your reply only begs the question of why a public airing of grievances is necessary if the information is widely known. I somehow think you would feel differently if you were the target of the accusations, true or not.

 

I'd reply with what I've written on this forum before. I dare anyone to find just one log of mine where I logged a found on a throwndown or any other cache I didn't really find (that included virtuals where answers can be found online in seconds). I can however, produce mails from COs saying I can log a find as the cache was missing. I declined all. There's nothing to be won or money to be earned by having one more found log. Statistics show my caching history but are not a goal, they just happen.

[+TheAuthorityFigures]

I don't get on the discussion forums very often, but just wanted to get this off my chest. I've made a habit of not doing power trails very often, as I've never cared about my number of finds that much. But after going with a few friends Super Bowl weekend on a rural power trail, I really understand how many cheaters there are out there. Some of the cheaters were claiming finds on caches that didn't have their signature on the log sheet, and one group dropped 4 throwdown caches even though the real cache containers were no more than 16' away. One of this group is the so called "Big Fish" (Alamogul)who has 130K caches. I can see how you can accumulate that many caches if you play by these tactics. This is only a game , but if you have to cheat to get a find, then that's pretty pitiful. Anyway, I know this topic has been covered many times before, but I'm interested to see what other cachers think about this kind of stuff. Thanks for listening.

 

I'm guessing you know this but PT's are really a subset of geocaching where the finder is encouraged by the CO to do maint on the trail....its a good thing because lots is needed. My wife and another couple did a trail last week where we replaced 99% of the logs which were soaked by a front that came through a few days earlier, in fact my wife's job was to make logs as we proceeded. Several containers which were cracked were replaced. Right or wrong, trails couldn't exist without the continued maint. of finders....bring sacks of logs and containers with you, its the way the PT game is played.

What ever happened to pride of ownership? I've replaced the occasional full or destroyed log, but I will never completely replace a container. That's what NM log is for, IMO. If the owner is unresponsive, well, hopefully things take a natural course to eventual archival.

[+Touchstone]

Your reply only begs the question of why a public airing of grievances is necessary if the information is widely known. I somehow think you would feel differently if you were the target of the accusations, true or not.

 

I'd reply with what I've written on this forum before. I dare anyone to find just one log of mine where I logged a found on a throwndown or any other cache I didn't really find (that included virtuals where answers can be found online in seconds). I can however, produce mails from COs saying I can log a find as the cache was missing. I declined all. There's nothing to be won or money to be earned by having one more found log. Statistics show my caching history but are not a goal, they just happen.

So it sounds like you agree that such personal attacks have no place in the Forum. Thank you.

[+Team Microdot]

Replacing a wet log when you've managed to find the cache placed by the CO is one thing. Replacing the entire cache because investing the effort to actually find it is too costly to you and too much of a risk to your fake find count isn't how the game is played by anyone with any credibility.

 

I agree but again a PT is a different animal.

 

I'm not aware of anything in the guidelines that affords so called Power Trails any special status or dispensation.

 

Two or three containers at GZ is no problem for the CO....they serve as back up at that particular location.

 

I expect little to nothing is a problem for the CO of a PT who has no intention of ever maintaining any of the caches. I expect they couldn't care less if anyone finds a genuine cache or not.

 

Throwdowns, in general, are appreciated by PT CO's.

 

Obviously.

 

On most PT's caches are very easy to find ( base of sign or telephone pole, etc )so its easy to determine if the cache is there.

 

Which begs the question of how there ends up being the much appreciated two or three containers at any GZ in the first place - if they are so easy to find. Oh - of course - that'll be the people who are far too busy to actually locate the cache at all when it's much more efficient to just drop your own and move on

[+on4bam]

So it sounds like you agree that such personal attacks have no place in the Forum. Thank you.

 

I fail to see where I wrote that. But then again, disagreeing with you seems to be risky business(*)

 

_{(*)not a personal attack}

[+Touchstone]

So it sounds like you agree that such personal attacks have no place in the Forum. Thank you.

 

I fail to see where I wrote that. But then again, disagreeing with you seems to be risky business(*)

 

_{(*)not a personal attack}

I thought your vigorous defense made my point regarding personal attacks in general. Doesn't really matter whether there is truth in what the OP is saying, nor do they present any evidence to support their assertion. The so called evidence they present can equally be supported by a more innocent interpretation. Unless they were actually there to witness it, it seems little more than an effort at trolling to me.

[+Flatiron & Mrs. Wrangler]

To be honest I"m not really sure what "trolling" is, as I don't spend a lot of my free time perusing the discussion forums. I only bring this to light as so many of the "power caching" folks seem to idolize some of these cheaters who have ridiculously high find counts. Most of the cachers I associate with play this game fairly, and don't need to cheat to boost their find totals. I usually call a spade a spade, and get a kick out of those who don't like the idea of calling someone out by name. These cachers know who they are and what they are doing, and probably don't give a hoot what I think about their caching styles. It just irks me that this game has gone from what it was in it's infancy to what it is today. And don't give me this BS about "it's only a game" or "play the game your way and I'll play it my way". Cheating at a game like this reveals a lot about a persons integrity and personality. That's my take on this subject whether some of you like it, or not. I guess that's why this is called a "discussion" forum.

[+Harry Dolphin]

Lessee... Throwdowns...

Found it 11/25/2015

My first and last cache in the xxx,because I had so many problems with the security of the mall. I searched the cache and looked it,but they saw me on their video camera and "cached" me. They thought that I threaten the security of the mall and spy their security system.They hold me 2,5h and asked me so many questions.

They instructed me, if I'll ever to do geocaching again in the xxx, I''ll have to go in the prison. I'm sorry about that,but the cache is muggled by the security,because they didn't let me go,if I don't say,where the box is.

Two finds after that (though it was removed by mall security.) Four DNFs. Warning not to seek it. NA. Temporarily Disabled 12/07/2015. Three more DNFs. Then a throwdown! (The throwdowners did apologize for not reading logs from the last two months.) Twelve more finds! Then a DNF.