Not Logging is WRONG!

[+justintim1999]

It's like a couple of other super-charged political issues.. I don't pretend to understand it, why someone would wait days, weeks, months or even years to log. But it doesn't bother me one bit, doesn't affect me, and I don't think about it at all. I suppose in some circles that makes me late-log-o-phobic. LOL.

 

I agree with you completely.

 

The only issue is regarding cache owners and travel bugs. I had an interesting conversation in another thread about cache owners marking travel bugs missing after verifying they were gone. A person picking up a travel bug and not logging it for a week or two could cause problems for the conscientious cache owner.

[cezanne]

Ahhh, now it starts to make sense.

 

What starts to make sense? I never delay logging trackables. I do that as soon as I get the chance to do it which still typically is hours later and sometimes not even on the same day even if the person before already has logged the trackable (I sometimes go on hikes that last longer than a day and I do not have mobile internet). Of course my top priority when coming home thirsty and hungry is not running to the PC and logging trackables.

 

Delaying the log to a say three day hiking cache after having let the owner let know that everything is alright (either by mail or via the log of some other cache who was with me), I do not see any reason for hurrying to write my logs (which can take me quite a while for such a cache - definitely at least an hour).

Sometimes when I came back from a cache hike I was so tired that I was glad that I managed to arrive at home or the accomodation and could do nothing else than go to bed.

Have you ever experienced that?

Edited February 9, 2016 by cezanne

[+justintim1999]

Ahhh, now it starts to make sense.

 

What starts to make sense? I never delay logging trackables. I do that as soon as I get the chance to do it which still typically is hours later and sometimes not even on the same day even if the person before already has logged the trackable (I sometimes go on hikes that last longer than a day and I do not have mobile internet). Of course my top priority when coming home thirsty and hungry is not running to the PC and logging trackables.

 

Delaying the log to a say three day hiking cache after having let the owner let know that everything is alright (either by mail or via the log of some other cache who was with me), I do not see any reason for hurrying to write my logs (which can take me quite a while for such a cache - definitely at least an hour).

Sometimes when I came back from a cache hike I was so tired that I was glad that I managed to arrive at home or the accomodation and could do nothing else than go to bed.

Have you ever experienced that?

 

Yup. I've slept in the woods more than once. If you do log trackables right away than I guess your objection with our previous conversation still doesn't make sense.

[+L0ne.R]

Ahhh, Imagine caching without keeping score. Geocaching in it's purest form.

 

As a cache owner I have no problem with someone finding one of my caches and not logging it online. Though it would be nice to get an e-mail if there was an issue.

The thing is, it doesn't bother us because we usually never know that someone found but didn't log.

 

In my case, i log mainly to keep up with what i've found and haven't found. If i didn't, it wouldn't be long before i'd begin getting confused on what caches i had already found and which i hadn't. It would be a pain to manually write up a diary/log to keep up with this. It's so simple to log online and let the website do this for me. Of course, this is not a problem for those who rarely find caches.

 

Some people forgo logging online because they don't want their stats to show online. There are a few reasons but imo, the positives of logging online outweigh the negatives when a person caches very often.

 

In the real world, most COs place caches for the enjoyment of others. They like seeing logs come in from finders who had a good time finding their cache. It may not be wrong, but it does almost seem like those who do this are taking and not giving.

 

I also log online as a way of keeping track of caches I've done and caches I like. It's also a convenient way to thank the cache owner for taking the time and placing the cache. I guess some people need that positive reinforcement they get through online logs. I admit it's nice but not necessary.

 

If there were no online logging, I wouldn't geocache. Logging is a connection with the community. A way to say thank you to the cache owner for providing a fun experience. A way to journal my experience. A way to communicate and share with other finders. I enjoy that part of geocaching.

 

As a cache owner, I wouldn't bother hiding caches - I need to know my efforts to create and maintain are worth it - that people have enjoyed the overall experience. That my cache is not simply another kernel in the big geocaching popcorn bowl. Thankfully there are a majority of cacher finders in my area that log, and actually say something about the particular caches they've found. They make up for the non-loggers, the copy & paste and the acronym loggers.

Edited February 9, 2016 by L0ne.R

[+J Grouchy]

If there was no online logging, I wouldn't geocache.

 

Same here. Have you ever visited one of the letterboxing sites? I've gone and found a couple and every single one was basically just junk...completely un-maintained and beyond repair. I believe that is due to the fact that the owner has no real connection to it after it's set out in the wild. The connection that comes from nearly real-time feedback. I think part of what makes geocaching.com a success is the fact that COs are held accountable and that is done mostly because of this feedback.

 

I have no problem with the occasional cacher that chooses not to log online. If it were the majority of cachers, though...I wouldn't bother. It's likely most of my caches would have just ended up wasting away since I would have no other way of knowing how they are holding up.

[+justintim1999]

Ahhh, Imagine caching without keeping score. Geocaching in it's purest form.

 

As a cache owner I have no problem with someone finding one of my caches and not logging it online. Though it would be nice to get an e-mail if there was an issue.

The thing is, it doesn't bother us because we usually never know that someone found but didn't log.

 

In my case, i log mainly to keep up with what i've found and haven't found. If i didn't, it wouldn't be long before i'd begin getting confused on what caches i had already found and which i hadn't. It would be a pain to manually write up a diary/log to keep up with this. It's so simple to log online and let the website do this for me. Of course, this is not a problem for those who rarely find caches.

 

Some people forgo logging online because they don't want their stats to show online. There are a few reasons but imo, the positives of logging online outweigh the negatives when a person caches very often.

 

In the real world, most COs place caches for the enjoyment of others. They like seeing logs come in from finders who had a good time finding their cache. It may not be wrong, but it does almost seem like those who do this are taking and not giving.

 

I also log online as a way of keeping track of caches I've done and caches I like. It's also a convenient way to thank the cache owner for taking the time and placing the cache. I guess some people need that positive reinforcement they get through online logs. I admit it's nice but not necessary.

 

If there was no online logging, I wouldn't geocache. Logging is a connection with the community. A way to say thank you to the cache owner for providing a fun experience. A way to journal my experience. A way to communicate and share with other finders.

 

As a cache owner, I wouldn't bother hiding caches - I need to know my efforts to create and maintain are worth it - that people have enjoyed the overall experience. That my cache is not simply another kernel in the big geocaching popcorn bowl. Thankfully there are a majority of cacher finders in my area that log, and actually say something about the particular caches they've found. They make up for the non-loggers, the copy & paste and the acronym loggers.

 

I'm with you on the first part, we'll everything but the not caching. That's all of the same reasons I log online. But if everyone of my caches were logged with TFTC I'd still hide them.

 

Funny thing is I'm eating Popcorn right now. Really I am. Delicious.

[cezanne]

Yup. I've slept in the woods more than once. If you do log trackables right away than I guess your objection with our previous conversation still doesn't make sense.

 

Of course it makes sense as I explained there that I'm logging trackables as soon as I get the chance to do so (that's not at the cache and more than once not even at the same day)

Moreover, I'm waiting until that the previous holder of a trackable logs it properly (I hate grabbing trackables out of the hands of people who have not yet found the chance to log them as I do not

like to be confronted with this situation myself). In such cases I write a note on the trackable page and explain the situation - in order to take this into account it is however of course required that anyone who takes an action with the concerned trackable has a look at the trackable's page and is not acting blindly. That makes sense to me.

[+justintim1999]

If there was no online logging, I wouldn't geocache.

 

Same here. Have you ever visited one of the letterboxing sites? I've gone and found a couple and every single one was basically just junk...completely un-maintained and beyond repair. I believe that is due to the fact that the owner has no real connection to it after it's set out in the wild. The connection that comes from nearly real-time feedback. I think part of what makes geocaching.com a success is the fact that COs are held accountable and that is done mostly because of this feedback.

 

I have no problem with the occasional cacher that chooses not to log online. If it were the majority of cachers, though...I wouldn't bother. It's likely most of my caches would have just ended up wasting away since I would have no other way of knowing how they are holding up.

 

I have a series of Letterboxes on Atlas Quest. Not much different than Geocaching. E-mail notification of finds, maintenance requests. Actually the logs and feedback I get there are as good if not better than the one's I get on my Geocaches. I think that junk Letterboxes suffer from the same problems that junk Geocaches do.

 

In my opinion the success of Geocaching is probably due to Technology, Travel Bugs and the fact that stamp carving isn't easy and takes time to master.

[+dprovan]

I agree that wrong is not the right word, however I strongly believe that online logs or a very important part of the activity as they should inform the cache owner and prospective finders about the status of the cache. If a small number cachers are not writing online logs, that's not a real issue. If the majority would stick to that behaviour, I certainly would not have maintained my caches over many years. They are not close to each other and all have several stages - I'm relying to some extent to the input I get.

It's not just that "wrong" is the wrong word. It's that thinking about it negatively at all makes no sense. Yes, I understand that you're hiding caches because you enjoy reading their on-line logs. But in that context, stealth seekers are no different than the cache not visited at all: they are of zero value to how you measure the rewards of hiding the cache, they are not worse than nothing. And, in fact, I claim they're better than nothing: they are still enjoying what you've done even though you don't find about about it.

 

That's why I keep objecting to the "they take but don't give back" line. The value of the cache is in no way reduced by these stealth seekers, so they don't take anything.

 

It's all well and good that neither of you can "imagine" it... but just like everyone seems to want to remind us all, we each cache "in our own way". Likewise, we each have different ways of finding what we enjoy about the game. Perhaps you ought not look down on others for looking at the game in a certain way...for wanting cachers to log their finds in a timely manner, for not wanting pointless "TFTC" logs, for trading up/trading even...whatever aspects of the game they find personally rewarding.

Feel free to enjoy logs. Feel free to encourage logs. That's your way. No problem. People cross the line when they insist others should write logs, even without going so far as to say it's wrong not to write logs: they've crossed over from enjoying it their own way to demanding others stop enjoying it another way and start doing it in a way that pleases that CO.

 

I think one problem I have imagining the other point of view is that it, apparently, stems from the idea that the alternatives are not writing a log and writing a high quality log, while I consider the more relevant alternative being between finding the cache without writing a log and not finding the cache at all. I have a hard time imagining COs that wouldn't rather the cache be found rather than ignored. Looking at it that way makes any log gravy, and a high quality log a treat.

[+justintim1999]

I agree that wrong is not the right word, however I strongly believe that online logs or a very important part of the activity as they should inform the cache owner and prospective finders about the status of the cache. If a small number cachers are not writing online logs, that's not a real issue. If the majority would stick to that behaviour, I certainly would not have maintained my caches over many years. They are not close to each other and all have several stages - I'm relying to some extent to the input I get.

It's not just that "wrong" is the wrong word. It's that thinking about it negatively at all makes no sense. Yes, I understand that you're hiding caches because you enjoy reading their on-line logs. But in that context, stealth seekers are no different than the cache not visited at all: they are of zero value to how you measure the rewards of hiding the cache, they are not worse than nothing. And, in fact, I claim they're better than nothing: they are still enjoying what you've done even though you don't find about about it.

 

That's why I keep objecting to the "they take but don't give back" line. The value of the cache is in no way reduced by these stealth seekers, so they don't take anything.

 

It's all well and good that neither of you can "imagine" it... but just like everyone seems to want to remind us all, we each cache "in our own way". Likewise, we each have different ways of finding what we enjoy about the game. Perhaps you ought not look down on others for looking at the game in a certain way...for wanting cachers to log their finds in a timely manner, for not wanting pointless "TFTC" logs, for trading up/trading even...whatever aspects of the game they find personally rewarding.

Feel free to enjoy logs. Feel free to encourage logs. That's your way. No problem. People cross the line when they insist others should write logs, even without going so far as to say it's wrong not to write logs: they've crossed over from enjoying it their own way to demanding others stop enjoying it another way and start doing it in a way that pleases that CO.

 

I think one problem I have imagining the other point of view is that it, apparently, stems from the idea that the alternatives are not writing a log and writing a high quality log, while I consider the more relevant alternative being between finding the cache without writing a log and not finding the cache at all. I have a hard time imagining COs that wouldn't rather the cache be found rather than ignored. Looking at it that way makes any log gravy, and a high quality log a treat.

 

Nice! From now on I'll think it and you can write it.

[+CanadianRockies]

I have no problem with the occasional cacher that chooses not to log online. If it were the majority of cachers, though...I wouldn't bother. It's likely most of my caches would have just ended up wasting away since I would have no other way of knowing how they are holding up.

One alternative way of knowing how your caches are holding up is to occasionally visit them yourself.

[+CanadianRockies]

Logs (and preferably the nice ones ) are the only reward for an owner's work. So I feel that if I visited a cache and did not let the owner know about it through my log... that would be selfish. I would only take and would not give.

While I enjoy reading logs (and preferably nice ones), that's not the primary reason I hide caches. I mainly hide caches as a way of giving back to the geocaching community. If lots of people found my caches and none of them wrote online logs, then I'd still have the fine reward of having given pleasure to lots of geocachers.

[+J Grouchy]

I have no problem with the occasional cacher that chooses not to log online. If it were the majority of cachers, though...I wouldn't bother. It's likely most of my caches would have just ended up wasting away since I would have no other way of knowing how they are holding up.

One alternative way of knowing how your caches are holding up is to occasionally visit them yourself.

 

Kind of goes without saying...but, you know, there's this thing called a life that gets in the way and makes it difficult to check a cache more than once a year or so.

[cezanne]

I have no problem with the occasional cacher that chooses not to log online. If it were the majority of cachers, though...I wouldn't bother. It's likely most of my caches would have just ended up wasting away since I would have no other way of knowing how they are holding up.

One alternative way of knowing how your caches are holding up is to occasionally visit them yourself.

 

For cachers who own caches which span a large distance it's not very practical to regularly visit all stages - in cases of virtual stages the risk that something has changed is typically low but still it exists. If the owners of say caches which span 180km would regularly visit all stages of such caches, then they would do nothing else and it would not add anything to the community. I do think that it not too much to expect that the majority of cachers provides feedback to the cache owners.

 

I rather have someone own four such caches with maintenance visits only when necessary than only one or no such long caches at all just because more than a very small number of cachers are not willing to provide status info.

Edited February 9, 2016 by cezanne

[+CanadianRockies]

I have no problem with the occasional cacher that chooses not to log online. If it were the majority of cachers, though...I wouldn't bother. It's likely most of my caches would have just ended up wasting away since I would have no other way of knowing how they are holding up.

One alternative way of knowing how your caches are holding up is to occasionally visit them yourself.

For cachers who own caches which span a large distance it's not very practical to regularly visit all stages - in cases of virtual stages the risk that something has changed is typically low but still it exists. If the owners of say caches which span 180km would regularly visit all stages of such caches, then they would do nothing else and it would not add anything to the community. I do think that it not too much to expect that the majority of cachers provides feedback to the cache owners.

 

I rather have someone own four such caches with maintenance visits only when necessary than only one or no such long caches at all just because more than a very small number of cachers are not willing to provide status info.

I'm not saying maintenance logs are a bad thing. I'm simply disputing the notion that, without maintenance logs, "I would have no other way of knowing how they are holding up."

 

And I'm not suggesting that everyone needs to make monthly visits to all their own caches but rather that they could make "occasional" visits. From the Groundspeak guidelines:

 

Owner is responsible for visits to the physical location.

 

You are responsible for occasional visits to your cache to ensure it is in proper working order, especially when someone reports a problem with the cache (missing, damaged, wet, etc.), or posts a Needs Maintenance log.

[cezanne]

 

And I'm not suggesting that everyone needs to make monthly visits to all their own caches but rather that they could make "occasional" visits. From the Groundspeak guidelines:

 

Owner is responsible for visits to the physical location.

 

You are responsible for occasional visits to your cache to ensure it is in proper working order, especially when someone reports a problem with the cache (missing, damaged, wet, etc.), or posts a Needs Maintenance log.

 

There is a difference between visiting the physical location(s) and walking the entire route which was what I tried to convey in my previous post. There are caches which span >100km or much more and where there is a single physical location. I'm aware of the maintenance guidelines. Nothing what you write will change my mind that geocaching as I understand it is dependent on the willingness of the majority of the cache visitors to provide information to the cache hider (in which form whatsoever).

Edited February 9, 2016 by cezanne

[+BCandMsKitty]

 

If there were no online logging, I wouldn't geocache. Logging is a connection with the community. A way to say thank you to the cache owner for providing a fun experience. A way to journal my experience. A way to communicate and share with other finders. I enjoy that part of geocaching.

 

As a cache owner, I wouldn't bother hiding caches - I need to know my efforts to create and maintain are worth it - that people have enjoyed the overall experience. That my cache is not simply another kernel in the big geocaching popcorn bowl. Thankfully there are a majority of cacher finders in my area that log, and actually say something about the particular caches they've found. They make up for the non-loggers, the copy & paste and the acronym loggers.

 

Exactly!

If everyone decided they couldn't be bothered to log online, there would be no point at all in hiding caches. For the good of the geocaching community? Some altruistic feeling? Nonsense! And those that say they feel that and that's why they hide caches way are fooling themselves, and us by saying it.

There would be no Geocaching Community without online logging! How could there be?

Those that do not log online because they can't be bothered, aren't wrong .. they're just selfish users!

 

This topic always makes me burn when the "I never log online" crowd come out and say the only real requirement for a find is "Sign the log". There are always links to text that supports that, but in almost every place that is stated, it is followed in context by something like "share your experiences online"! It's convenient to ignore the entire text and only focus on statements that support their selfishness.

[+J Grouchy]

I have no problem with the occasional cacher that chooses not to log online. If it were the majority of cachers, though...I wouldn't bother. It's likely most of my caches would have just ended up wasting away since I would have no other way of knowing how they are holding up.

One alternative way of knowing how your caches are holding up is to occasionally visit them yourself.

For cachers who own caches which span a large distance it's not very practical to regularly visit all stages - in cases of virtual stages the risk that something has changed is typically low but still it exists. If the owners of say caches which span 180km would regularly visit all stages of such caches, then they would do nothing else and it would not add anything to the community. I do think that it not too much to expect that the majority of cachers provides feedback to the cache owners.

 

I rather have someone own four such caches with maintenance visits only when necessary than only one or no such long caches at all just because more than a very small number of cachers are not willing to provide status info.

I'm not saying maintenance logs are a bad thing. I'm simply disputing the notion that, without maintenance logs, "I would have no other way of knowing how they are holding up."

 

And I'm not suggesting that everyone needs to make monthly visits to all their own caches but rather that they could make "occasional" visits. From the Groundspeak guidelines:

 

Owner is responsible for visits to the physical location.

 

You are responsible for occasional visits to your cache to ensure it is in proper working order, especially when someone reports a problem with the cache (missing, damaged, wet, etc.), or posts a Needs Maintenance log.

 

Like I said, goes without saying. Meaning, there was really no need to point it out. I'm well aware of the maintenance requirement and the need to occasionally visit a cache. I do so all the time. When I'm near one or more of my caches that are further away from work or home than I typically go, I like to check in on them...but that doesn't happen often. Many times I'm out with family or running errands and I'm on a time crunch, so visiting is not practical except for once a year or so...less than that if I am getting regular online logs with no comments about the condition being a problem.

[+narcissa]

The level of anger is kind of fascinating. If I noticed that someone found my cache and didn't log it online, at most I would assume it was a mistake or an accidental find.

 

The notion that there are some cachers out there who aren't beholden to stats is kind of refreshing.

[+justintim1999]

 

If there were no online logging, I wouldn't geocache. Logging is a connection with the community. A way to say thank you to the cache owner for providing a fun experience. A way to journal my experience. A way to communicate and share with other finders. I enjoy that part of geocaching.

 

As a cache owner, I wouldn't bother hiding caches - I need to know my efforts to create and maintain are worth it - that people have enjoyed the overall experience. That my cache is not simply another kernel in the big geocaching popcorn bowl. Thankfully there are a majority of cacher finders in my area that log, and actually say something about the particular caches they've found. They make up for the non-loggers, the copy & paste and the acronym loggers.

 

Exactly!

If everyone decided they couldn't be bothered to log online, there would be no point at all in hiding caches. For the good of the geocaching community? Some altruistic feeling? Nonsense! And those that say they feel that and that's why they hide caches way are fooling themselves, and us by saying it.

There would be no Geocaching Community without online logging! How could there be?

Those that do not log online because they can't be bothered, aren't wrong .. they're just selfish users!

 

This topic always makes me burn when the "I never log online" crowd come out and say the only real requirement for a find is "Sign the log". There are always links to text that supports that, but in almost every place that is stated, it is followed in context by something like "share your experiences online"! It's convenient to ignore the entire text and only focus on statements that support their selfishness.

 

But signing the log is the only real requirement isn't it?

 

Other than massaging the ego is it really that important?

 

I get a little steamed when people try to take something purely optional and try to tell me it's something that I have to do or I'm selfish. I love logs. I love writing them and reading them but I'm not going to tell someone their selfish because they choose not to write one.

 

I love the pessimistic notion that the only reason to hide a cache is the online log. Without that, there's no value to the activity of geocaching what so ever.

 

I guess I'm just altruistic, if that's ok?

[+CanadianRockies]

If everyone decided they couldn't be bothered to log online, there would be no point at all in hiding caches. For the good of the geocaching community? Some altruistic feeling? Nonsense! And those that say they feel that and that's why they hide caches way are fooling themselves, and us by saying it.

Geocache hiders who place caches mainly for the enjoyment of others aren't being insincere; they just have different motivations than you. Different people hide caches for different reasons. That shouldn't be a great surprise to anybody.

 

There would be no Geocaching Community without online logging! How could there be?

Events, Facebook groups, forums, Meetup groups. By your reasoning, there couldn't be any hiking communities if nobody wrote online about their experiences, but that clearly isn't the case.

 

Those that do not log online because they can't be bothered, aren't wrong .. they're just selfish users!

And what about those cache owners who wouldn't bother to hide caches if they didn't receive online logs? Are they selfish hiders by your reasoning?

[+L0ne.R]

If there was no online logging, I wouldn't geocache.

 

Same here. Have you ever visited one of the letterboxing sites? I've gone and found a couple and every single one was basically just junk...completely un-maintained and beyond repair. I believe that is due to the fact that the owner has no real connection to it after it's set out in the wild. The connection that comes from nearly real-time feedback. I think part of what makes geocaching.com a success is the fact that COs are held accountable and that is done mostly because of this feedback.

 

I have no problem with the occasional cacher that chooses not to log online. If it were the majority of cachers, though...I wouldn't bother. It's likely most of my caches would have just ended up wasting away since I would have no other way of knowing how they are holding up.

 

I think it would go the same way as the Mz game - the cachers that put effort into the game beyond points accumulation, will stop bothering. There will still be geocache finders and hiders, but most caches will be generic. Probably most would be micro since the swag aspect would probably mean nothing to players who play for points.

 

The only feedback I was getting playing that other game was a ping that someone scanned a code. Occasionally I'd get someone who actually wrote something but it was almost always "Found It". Why they bothered to go the extra step to type "Found It" was a head scratcher and frankly, annoying. I stopped hiding - most people weren't going to the forests to get their points (that's where I hid most of my tags), not when a parking lot got more points quicker. Hmmmm, geocaching is showing signs of morphing into that other game.

Edited February 9, 2016 by L0ne.R

[+narcissa]

 

If there were no online logging, I wouldn't geocache. Logging is a connection with the community. A way to say thank you to the cache owner for providing a fun experience. A way to journal my experience. A way to communicate and share with other finders. I enjoy that part of geocaching.

 

As a cache owner, I wouldn't bother hiding caches - I need to know my efforts to create and maintain are worth it - that people have enjoyed the overall experience. That my cache is not simply another kernel in the big geocaching popcorn bowl. Thankfully there are a majority of cacher finders in my area that log, and actually say something about the particular caches they've found. They make up for the non-loggers, the copy & paste and the acronym loggers.

 

Exactly!

If everyone decided they couldn't be bothered to log online, there would be no point at all in hiding caches. For the good of the geocaching community? Some altruistic feeling? Nonsense! And those that say they feel that and that's why they hide caches way are fooling themselves, and us by saying it.

There would be no Geocaching Community without online logging! How could there be?

Those that do not log online because they can't be bothered, aren't wrong .. they're just selfish users!

 

This topic always makes me burn when the "I never log online" crowd come out and say the only real requirement for a find is "Sign the log". There are always links to text that supports that, but in almost every place that is stated, it is followed in context by something like "share your experiences online"! It's convenient to ignore the entire text and only focus on statements that support their selfishness.

 

But signing the log is the only real requirement isn't it?

 

Other than massaging the ego is it really that important?

 

I get a little steamed when people try to take something purely optional and try to tell me it's something that I have to do or I'm selfish. I love logs. I love writing them and reading them but I'm not going to tell someone their selfish because they choose not to write one.

 

I love the pessimistic notion that the only reason to hide a cache is the online log. Without that, there's no value to the activity of geocaching what so ever.

 

I guess I'm just altruistic, if that's ok?

 

It's cute how just not getting around to logging a cache is selfish, but threatening to pull out of the game entirely because of a rumour about some people not logging is a totally reasonable reaction. The forum is weird.

[+justintim1999]

If there was no online logging, I wouldn't geocache.

 

Same here. Have you ever visited one of the letterboxing sites? I've gone and found a couple and every single one was basically just junk...completely un-maintained and beyond repair. I believe that is due to the fact that the owner has no real connection to it after it's set out in the wild. The connection that comes from nearly real-time feedback. I think part of what makes geocaching.com a success is the fact that COs are held accountable and that is done mostly because of this feedback.

 

I have no problem with the occasional cacher that chooses not to log online. If it were the majority of cachers, though...I wouldn't bother. It's likely most of my caches would have just ended up wasting away since I would have no other way of knowing how they are holding up.

 

I think it would go the same way as the Mz game - the cachers that put effort into the game beyond points accumulation, will stop bothering. There will still be geocache finders and hiders, but most caches will be generic. Probably most would be micro since the swag aspect would probably mean nothing to players who play for points.

 

The only feedback I was getting playing that other game was a ping that someone scanned a code. Occasionally I'd get someone who actually wrote something but it was almost always "Found It". Why they bothered to go the extra step to type "Found It" was a head scratcher and frankly, annoying. I stopped hiding - most people weren't going to the forests to get their points (where I hid most of my tags), not when a parking lot got more points quicker. Hmmmm, geocaching is showing signs of morphing into that other game.

 

The reason I normally write more than one word on a log is because, when I started geocaching, I noticed other cachers writing long interesting logs before me. I thought it was cool, but more importantly I thought it was simply what you did.

[+Manville Possum]

As a cache owner, I really like seeing pictures with logs. As a cache hider, I do it for the same reason that I Waymark. For my enjoyment.

 

One of my geocaching friends told me that they don't log online often because they have had logs deleted by cache owners just being mean.

[+Manville Possum]

It's cute how just not getting around to logging a cache is selfish, but threatening to pull out of the game entirely because of a rumour about some people not logging is a totally reasonable reaction. The forum is weird.

 

Geocaching just keeps getting stranger, and the forums here are mostly the same long time users that disagree.

[+L0ne.R]

Logs (and preferably the nice ones ) are the only reward for an owner's work. So I feel that if I visited a cache and did not let the owner know about it through my log... that would be selfish. I would only take and would not give.

While I enjoy reading logs (and preferably nice ones), that's not the primary reason I hide caches. I mainly hide caches as a way of giving back to the geocaching community. If lots of people found my caches and none of them wrote online logs, then I'd still have the fine reward of having given pleasure to lots of geocachers.

 

How can you be sure you've given pleasure to lots of geocachers?

I've found a lot of caches that were dead boring - a cheap cache placed to up numbers. They might get a "That's another find for me" log. No pleasure in that kind of a find at all, in fact rather irritating and a waste of time.

But when I find a good one I enthusiastically let the cache owner and future finders know via my online log.

[+L0ne.R]

 

If there were no online logging, I wouldn't geocache. Logging is a connection with the community. A way to say thank you to the cache owner for providing a fun experience. A way to journal my experience. A way to communicate and share with other finders. I enjoy that part of geocaching.

 

As a cache owner, I wouldn't bother hiding caches - I need to know my efforts to create and maintain are worth it - that people have enjoyed the overall experience. That my cache is not simply another kernel in the big geocaching popcorn bowl. Thankfully there are a majority of cacher finders in my area that log, and actually say something about the particular caches they've found. They make up for the non-loggers, the copy & paste and the acronym loggers.

 

Exactly!

If everyone decided they couldn't be bothered to log online, there would be no point at all in hiding caches. For the good of the geocaching community? Some altruistic feeling? Nonsense! And those that say they feel that and that's why they hide caches way are fooling themselves, and us by saying it.

There would be no Geocaching Community without online logging! How could there be?

Those that do not log online because they can't be bothered, aren't wrong .. they're just selfish users!

 

This topic always makes me burn when the "I never log online" crowd come out and say the only real requirement for a find is "Sign the log". There are always links to text that supports that, but in almost every place that is stated, it is followed in context by something like "share your experiences online"! It's convenient to ignore the entire text and only focus on statements that support their selfishness.

 

But signing the log is the only real requirement isn't it?

 

Other than massaging the ego is it really that important?

 

I get a little steamed when people try to take something purely optional and try to tell me it's something that I have to do or I'm selfish. I love logs. I love writing them and reading them but I'm not going to tell someone their selfish because they choose not to write one.

 

I love the pessimistic notion that the only reason to hide a cache is the online log. Without that, there's no value to the activity of geocaching what so ever.

 

I guess I'm just altruistic, if that's ok?

 

It's cute how just not getting around to logging a cache is selfish, but threatening to pull out of the game entirely because of a rumour about some people not logging is a totally reasonable reaction. The forum is weird.

 

Whoa Narc, if you're talking about my comment, I didn't threaten to pull out of the game entirely because some people don't log their finds. I totally understand why some people don't log online (they really aren't geocachers, just tagging along; they don't like being tracked online; they don't enjoy writing). It happens...but if not logging online were the norm, some of us hiders (and might I say good hiders, I know BC & Kitty are one of my favourite hiders - and I currently only have 2 favourite hiders in southwestern Ontario....but I digress), wouldn't be motivated to continue hiding and maintaining caches. I'm definitely motivated by the cachers in my area who leave good feedback.

[+J Grouchy]

 

If there were no online logging, I wouldn't geocache. Logging is a connection with the community. A way to say thank you to the cache owner for providing a fun experience. A way to journal my experience. A way to communicate and share with other finders. I enjoy that part of geocaching.

 

As a cache owner, I wouldn't bother hiding caches - I need to know my efforts to create and maintain are worth it - that people have enjoyed the overall experience. That my cache is not simply another kernel in the big geocaching popcorn bowl. Thankfully there are a majority of cacher finders in my area that log, and actually say something about the particular caches they've found. They make up for the non-loggers, the copy & paste and the acronym loggers.

 

Exactly!

If everyone decided they couldn't be bothered to log online, there would be no point at all in hiding caches. For the good of the geocaching community? Some altruistic feeling? Nonsense! And those that say they feel that and that's why they hide caches way are fooling themselves, and us by saying it.

There would be no Geocaching Community without online logging! How could there be?

Those that do not log online because they can't be bothered, aren't wrong .. they're just selfish users!

 

This topic always makes me burn when the "I never log online" crowd come out and say the only real requirement for a find is "Sign the log". There are always links to text that supports that, but in almost every place that is stated, it is followed in context by something like "share your experiences online"! It's convenient to ignore the entire text and only focus on statements that support their selfishness.

 

But signing the log is the only real requirement isn't it?

 

Other than massaging the ego is it really that important?

 

I get a little steamed when people try to take something purely optional and try to tell me it's something that I have to do or I'm selfish. I love logs. I love writing them and reading them but I'm not going to tell someone their selfish because they choose not to write one.

 

I love the pessimistic notion that the only reason to hide a cache is the online log. Without that, there's no value to the activity of geocaching what so ever.

 

I guess I'm just altruistic, if that's ok?

 

It's cute how just not getting around to logging a cache is selfish, but threatening to pull out of the game entirely because of a rumour about some people not logging is a totally reasonable reaction. The forum is weird.

 

I liken it to the trackables game. People put these things out there for others to enjoy, to log, to move from cache to cache...to LOG. If nobody logs it, it starts to feel like a pointless exercise. Maybe people are finding it, maybe not. No way to tell, really. Eventually it just becomes one more thing that you own but get no feedback on...and it's likely you just end up not really wanting to do it anymore. Maybe it's a bit selfish as a cache owner to want the feedback. Maybe it's a bit selfish to feel like you don't have to give feedback. Maybe we can all understand the others' viewpoints on the matter and not snidely comment that their point of view is "cute" or perplexing.

[+justintim1999]

Logs (and preferably the nice ones ) are the only reward for an owner's work. So I feel that if I visited a cache and did not let the owner know about it through my log... that would be selfish. I would only take and would not give.

While I enjoy reading logs (and preferably nice ones), that's not the primary reason I hide caches. I mainly hide caches as a way of giving back to the geocaching community. If lots of people found my caches and none of them wrote online logs, then I'd still have the fine reward of having given pleasure to lots of geocachers.

 

How can you be sure you've given pleasure to lots of geocachers?

I've found a lot of caches that were dead boring - a cheap cache placed to up numbers. They might get a "That's another find for me" log. No pleasure in that kind of a find at all, in fact rather irritating and a waste of time.

But when I find a good one I enthusiastically let the cache owner and future finders know via my online log.

 

How do you know you haven't? The fact that I'm always out of favorite points will tell you that I haven't yet meet a cache I didn't like. I once found a lamp post cache I thought was awesome. Almost stepped on a porcupine while searching for one cache. Meet and talked to young lady and a photographer during a photo shoot under an amazing keystone bridge. Got lost caching with a buddy's son and meet a nice old man who drove us back to our car just as it was getting dark. In all these examples the cache had nothing to do with what made the experience memorable. Yes I did write about all these things in my logs and I'm sure the cache owner enjoyed reading about them. Some people choose to keep their experiences private. The fact that they took the time to go out and find my cache is good enough for me.

Edited February 9, 2016 by justintim1999

[+L0ne.R]

If there was no online logging, I wouldn't geocache.

 

Same here. Have you ever visited one of the letterboxing sites? I've gone and found a couple and every single one was basically just junk...completely un-maintained and beyond repair. I believe that is due to the fact that the owner has no real connection to it after it's set out in the wild. The connection that comes from nearly real-time feedback. I think part of what makes geocaching.com a success is the fact that COs are held accountable and that is done mostly because of this feedback.

 

I have no problem with the occasional cacher that chooses not to log online. If it were the majority of cachers, though...I wouldn't bother. It's likely most of my caches would have just ended up wasting away since I would have no other way of knowing how they are holding up.

 

I have a series of Letterboxes on Atlas Quest. Not much different than Geocaching. E-mail notification of finds, maintenance requests. Actually the logs and feedback I get there are as good if not better than the one's I get on my Geocaches. I think that junk Letterboxes suffer from the same problems that junk Geocaches do.

 

In my opinion the success of Geocaching is probably due to Technology, Travel Bugs and the fact that stamp carving isn't easy and takes time to master.

 

Letterboxing.org started in 2001. No online logging. Still no online logging but you can check off a find.

 

Atlas Quest started up in 2004. No online logging until 2007.

 

Being a geocacher too, back in 2002 - 2006 I regularly went to the forums to request an online logging feature in the letterboxing databases. I got thoroughly roasted and toasted for suggesting it. The culture at the time was that finders would visit a letterbox, stamp the signature stamp into the logbook and add a date and leave. (Hmmm, again quite like geocaching physical logs these days - signature name and date). You knew someone visited when you checked your letterbox's physical logbook.

 

In April 2007 the public comments feature in AQ was implemented. In 2006 - 9,490 letterboxes were planted. In 2007 - 16,242 letterboxes were planted. A 58% increase in plants.

 

And the letterboxing.org site lost people. The database became filled with unmaintained and missing letterboxes and people referred to the LBNA site as "LetterBox Not Available".

 

I'd say it is a good example that shows the importance of online logging to the community, and as a motivating factor when it comes to hiding and maintaining.

Edited February 9, 2016 by L0ne.R

[+BCandMsKitty]

 

If there were no online logging, I wouldn't geocache. Logging is a connection with the community. A way to say thank you to the cache owner for providing a fun experience. A way to journal my experience. A way to communicate and share with other finders. I enjoy that part of geocaching.

 

As a cache owner, I wouldn't bother hiding caches - I need to know my efforts to create and maintain are worth it - that people have enjoyed the overall experience. That my cache is not simply another kernel in the big geocaching popcorn bowl. Thankfully there are a majority of cacher finders in my area that log, and actually say something about the particular caches they've found. They make up for the non-loggers, the copy & paste and the acronym loggers.

 

Exactly!

If everyone decided they couldn't be bothered to log online, there would be no point at all in hiding caches. For the good of the geocaching community? Some altruistic feeling? Nonsense! And those that say they feel that and that's why they hide caches way are fooling themselves, and us by saying it.

There would be no Geocaching Community without online logging! How could there be?

Those that do not log online because they can't be bothered, aren't wrong .. they're just selfish users!

 

This topic always makes me burn when the "I never log online" crowd come out and say the only real requirement for a find is "Sign the log". There are always links to text that supports that, but in almost every place that is stated, it is followed in context by something like "share your experiences online"! It's convenient to ignore the entire text and only focus on statements that support their selfishness.

 

But signing the log is the only real requirement isn't it?

 

Other than massaging the ego is it really that important?

 

I get a little steamed when people try to take something purely optional and try to tell me it's something that I have to do or I'm selfish. I love logs. I love writing them and reading them but I'm not going to tell someone their selfish because they choose not to write one.

 

I love the pessimistic notion that the only reason to hide a cache is the online log. Without that, there's no value to the activity of geocaching what so ever.

 

I guess I'm just altruistic, if that's ok?

 

It's cute how just not getting around to logging a cache is selfish, but threatening to pull out of the game entirely because of a rumour about some people not logging is a totally reasonable reaction. The forum is weird.

 

Whoa Narc, if you're talking about my comment, I didn't threaten to pull out of the game entirely because some people don't log their finds. I totally understand why some people don't log online (they really aren't geocachers, just tagging along; they don't like being tracked online; they don't enjoy writing). It happens...but if not logging online were the norm, some of us hiders (and might I say good hiders, I know BC & Kitty are one of my favourite hiders - and I currently only have 2 favourite hiders in southwestern Ontario....but I digress), wouldn't be motivated to continue hiding and maintaining caches. I'm definitely motivated by the cachers in my area who leave good feedback.

 

L0ne.R maybe says it better than I do. I never said anything about pulling out entirely! You seem to be putting a lot of your words and meanings into what we've said.

Thankfully there are enough cachers around (I believe the majority)that actually see the value of logging online, and not just for the smiley. I couldn't tell you how many caches we've found without looking, so the numbers aren't very important to us, but I still enjoy writing a good log for caches we enjoy to let the hider know about our experience and many times I have the most fun logging a DNF ... but that's a different peeve of mine (not logging DNFs)

 

Even the good old TFTC is worlds better than no log at all.

[+CanadianRockies]

Logs (and preferably the nice ones ) are the only reward for an owner's work. So I feel that if I visited a cache and did not let the owner know about it through my log... that would be selfish. I would only take and would not give.

While I enjoy reading logs (and preferably nice ones), that's not the primary reason I hide caches. I mainly hide caches as a way of giving back to the geocaching community. If lots of people found my caches and none of them wrote online logs, then I'd still have the fine reward of having given pleasure to lots of geocachers.

How can you be sure you've given pleasure to lots of geocachers?

Favorite points, talking with people at events, comments in physical log books.

[+J Grouchy]

Logs (and preferably the nice ones ) are the only reward for an owner's work. So I feel that if I visited a cache and did not let the owner know about it through my log... that would be selfish. I would only take and would not give.

While I enjoy reading logs (and preferably nice ones), that's not the primary reason I hide caches. I mainly hide caches as a way of giving back to the geocaching community. If lots of people found my caches and none of them wrote online logs, then I'd still have the fine reward of having given pleasure to lots of geocachers.

How can you be sure you've given pleasure to lots of geocachers?

Favorite points, talking with people at events, comments in physical log books.

 

That last one is a stretch. Even in my larger log books, I've never actually seen any handwritten comments beyond a "thank you" and maybe a quick note about leaving a trackable or piece of swag. None of those can honestly be interpreted as the cache having pleased the finder.

[+L0ne.R]

Logs (and preferably the nice ones ) are the only reward for an owner's work. So I feel that if I visited a cache and did not let the owner know about it through my log... that would be selfish. I would only take and would not give.

While I enjoy reading logs (and preferably nice ones), that's not the primary reason I hide caches. I mainly hide caches as a way of giving back to the geocaching community. If lots of people found my caches and none of them wrote online logs, then I'd still have the fine reward of having given pleasure to lots of geocachers.

How can you be sure you've given pleasure to lots of geocachers?

Favorite points, talking with people at events, comments in physical log books.

• Most people who give a FP also leave good online logs.
• Events - is there a list that goes around of the best caches? I would imagine that maybe a handful of caches get mentioned. And these days they'd be applauding the power hiders who go to events. "Loved your powertrail, JoeCacher. Our group of 40 had a blast splitting up and getting over 200 of your caches that day."
• Comments in log books - when is the last time you saw a comment in a logbook? It's all trailnames and dates now.

Edited February 9, 2016 by L0ne.R

[+BCandMsKitty]

 

If there were no online logging, I wouldn't geocache. Logging is a connection with the community. A way to say thank you to the cache owner for providing a fun experience. A way to journal my experience. A way to communicate and share with other finders. I enjoy that part of geocaching.

 

As a cache owner, I wouldn't bother hiding caches - I need to know my efforts to create and maintain are worth it - that people have enjoyed the overall experience. That my cache is not simply another kernel in the big geocaching popcorn bowl. Thankfully there are a majority of cacher finders in my area that log, and actually say something about the particular caches they've found. They make up for the non-loggers, the copy & paste and the acronym loggers.

 

Exactly!

If everyone decided they couldn't be bothered to log online, there would be no point at all in hiding caches. For the good of the geocaching community? Some altruistic feeling? Nonsense! And those that say they feel that and that's why they hide caches way are fooling themselves, and us by saying it.

There would be no Geocaching Community without online logging! How could there be?

Those that do not log online because they can't be bothered, aren't wrong .. they're just selfish users!

 

This topic always makes me burn when the "I never log online" crowd come out and say the only real requirement for a find is "Sign the log". There are always links to text that supports that, but in almost every place that is stated, it is followed in context by something like "share your experiences online"! It's convenient to ignore the entire text and only focus on statements that support their selfishness.

 

But signing the log is the only real requirement isn't it?

 

Other than massaging the ego is it really that important?

 

I get a little steamed when people try to take something purely optional and try to tell me it's something that I have to do or I'm selfish. I love logs. I love writing them and reading them but I'm not going to tell someone their selfish because they choose not to write one.

 

I love the pessimistic notion that the only reason to hide a cache is the online log. Without that, there's no value to the activity of geocaching what so ever.

 

I guess I'm just altruistic, if that's ok?

 

Think about your own caches.

Every one of them has fav. points awarded. If it wasn't for those that log online you would never know if people like them or not. and without the nice logs I see there, would you have hidden more? I wonder.

 

Maybe it's not a requirement in the sense that you can delete finds if someone hasn't signed the log, but check out Geocaching 101

The second heading of How is the game played? includes "Share your geocaching stories and photos online." . The third heading of What are the rules of Geocaching? which has only 3 points includes "Log your experience at www.geocaching.com." so, sorry, but to me logging online IS required, or at least very desirable ... it's just not enforced. And so it shouldn't be. There are many reasons someone might choose to not log online, but if you read what I wrote, I said those that just can't be bothered!

 

And for your statement "Other than massaging the ego is it really that important?"

I can see wet logs, damaged and/or missing caches, and the game sliding into nothing without them, so yeah .. they're important.

[+BCandMsKitty]

Logs (and preferably the nice ones ) are the only reward for an owner's work. So I feel that if I visited a cache and did not let the owner know about it through my log... that would be selfish. I would only take and would not give.

While I enjoy reading logs (and preferably nice ones), that's not the primary reason I hide caches. I mainly hide caches as a way of giving back to the geocaching community. If lots of people found my caches and none of them wrote online logs, then I'd still have the fine reward of having given pleasure to lots of geocachers.

How can you be sure you've given pleasure to lots of geocachers?

Favorite points, talking with people at events, comments in physical log books.

Can you do that without an online log?

[+dprovan]

This topic always makes me burn when the "I never log online" crowd come out and say the only real requirement for a find is "Sign the log".

What "I never log online" crowd are you talking about? I don't even recall anyone posting in this thread saying they don't log online, and I think it's a very small number of seekers that don't log online. I've also noticed it seems regional: in my area, I almost never encounter a signature in a physical that doesn't match an online log, although I run into it once in a while when I cache about 30 miles to the east.

 

This whole idea that the game will collapse if we don't all log online is silly. Most of us get value for ourselves by logging online, so there's no danger at all that everyone will stop. We're only discussing whether it's fair or reasonable to pillory that small handful of renegades that don't see the value in it. The "crowd" posting here is simply defending their choice to cache how they want. This isn't a campaign to stop online logging; that would be a fool's errand even if someone thought it was a good idea.

[+Gill & Tony]

I have found one way in which not logging online or logging very late does impact people other than the CO.

 

There are a number of challenge caches in Australia which encourage folk to find long lost caches (unfound for more than 6 months before your find). I have seen situations where someone writes a log dated the day they wrote the log, stating that they found the log months previously and are just catching up. When you look at the cache online sometime later it appears that the cache was found recently, when in fact it was last found ages ago and would be a qualifying cache.

 

The other side of the coin is finding a cache with no online log for 12 months, but seeing an entry in the logbook that someone found it last month.

 

I'm not saying that it is wrong, or that others should play the game in a way which helps me, but it is frustrating sometimes.

[+niraD]

One of my geocaching friends told me that they don't log online often because they have had logs deleted by cache owners just being mean.

Unfortunately, that's the other side of the "geocaching community" coin.

[+CanadianRockies]

While I enjoy reading logs (and preferably nice ones), that's not the primary reason I hide caches. I mainly hide caches as a way of giving back to the geocaching community. If lots of people found my caches and none of them wrote online logs, then I'd still have the fine reward of having given pleasure to lots of geocachers.

How can you be sure you've given pleasure to lots of geocachers?

Favorite points, talking with people at events, comments in physical log books.

• Most people who give a FP also leave good online logs.

But you asked how I would know our caches gave geocachers pleasure without people writing online logs. Favorite points would be one way, even if the online log was a simple ".".

 

• Events - is there a list that goes around of the best caches? I would imagine that maybe a handful of caches get mentioned. And these days they'd be applauding the power hiders who go to events. "Loved your powertrail, JoeCacher. Our group of 40 had a blast splitting up and getting over 200 of your caches that day."

Twice a year, at our local Cache and Release wrap-up events, awards are given for best hidden caches in multiple categories. Even at our monthly dinner events, people often come to us and compliment some of our hides. And I often have expressed my appreciation of their hides. It's just one of the things geocachers talk about in this area.

 

• Comments in log books - when is the last time you saw a comment in a logbook? It's all trailnames and dates now.

Last Sunday, we found a fun cache whose log book included several nice comments. That cache also had been awarded 28 favorite points. At the next monthly dinner event, I'll be sure to pass along our compliments if I see the cache owners.

[+BCandMsKitty]

and I think it's a very small number of seekers that don't log online.

I agree completely

 

This whole idea that the game will collapse if we don't all log online is silly. Most of us get value for ourselves by logging online, so there's no danger at all that everyone will stop. We're only discussing whether it's fair or reasonable to pillory that small handful of renegades that don't see the value in it. The "crowd" posting here is simply defending their choice to cache how they want. This isn't a campaign to stop online logging; that would be a fool's errand even if someone thought it was a good idea.

 

I haven't seen anyone say the game will collapse if we don't all log online, but rather that if it becomes commonplace that there is no online logging, the game will suffer. those two statements are not the same thing!

I know that there's no campaign to stop online logging. And of course, as long as there are "numbers game " cachers, there's going to be online logging

[+The_Incredibles_]

1455000793[/url]' post='5563622']

I know a couple who went and found a cache that is only found a few times a year. As usual, they didn't log it online, even though they are avid cachers. I think that was a pretty selfish thing to do, especially considering the cache owner or other cachers might be wondering about the status of the cache. I don't hide my caches for people like that.

 

I agree. I wonder if some cachers who regularly cache and have an account, don't log because they are private-types. They don't like being tracked. Groundspeak provides everyone access to all finds in a chronological order.

 

I don't see how there's a privacy issue. You can pick any name you want and don't have to upload photos.

 

From what I gathered, the excuse was that they were not that great with computers. I don't personally buy that excuse as they are somehow competent enough to get the cache coordinates and work a GPS.

[+J Grouchy]

and I think it's a very small number of seekers that don't log online.

I agree completely

 

This whole idea that the game will collapse if we don't all log online is silly. Most of us get value for ourselves by logging online, so there's no danger at all that everyone will stop. We're only discussing whether it's fair or reasonable to pillory that small handful of renegades that don't see the value in it. The "crowd" posting here is simply defending their choice to cache how they want. This isn't a campaign to stop online logging; that would be a fool's errand even if someone thought it was a good idea.

 

I haven't seen anyone say the game will collapse if we don't all log online, but rather that if it becomes commonplace that there is no online logging, the game will suffer. those two statements are not the same thing!

I know that there's no campaign to stop online logging. And of course, as long as there are "numbers game " cachers, there's going to be online logging

 

The only hyperbole appears to come from misinterpretation of some very reasonable comments.

[+wandillup wanderer]

While it is not mandatory to log cache finds online they do serve an important function.

when caching i often refer to previous logs if i am having trouble finding a cache as people often describe their caching experience in detail which can assist cachers to come up with the booty.

Also as a cache owner online logging by finders is an imprtant tool in cache maintenance and health.

They can show if the difficulty and terrain ratings are appropriate and if the published coords. are accurate and highlight any dangers or risks associated with the cache.

But as previous post have shown geocaching can be a lone or group activity and given that there are over 6 million cachers worldwide differing opinions on how to play the game are inevitable.

As long as finders maintain the two fundamental principles of signing the log and replacing the cache as found the integrity of the game should prevail.

Edited February 10, 2016 by wandillup wanderer

[+JL_HSTRE]

I would say that online logging isn't required, but is strongly encouraged.

 

Logging online is important to so other people know the status of a cache. Has it been found recently? Are there several recent DNFs? Are there a mix of Finds and DNFs? Is there some other problem - container damage, access issues, flooding, construction, trail reroutes, etc? Sure you can message the CO if there's an issue they can fix, but CO may be inactive or slow to response. Also, I wouldn't want to be regularly posting notes on my cache page for others. Share your experience for the benefit of others.

 

There are certainly situations where online logging is not terribly relevant. For example, a family or couple with a single caching account. Does it really matter that 1 person logged a Find vs father, mother, and 2 kids? (There is a FL cacher who logs finds for not only himself and his wife, but also their 2 dogs. I don't really see the point.) The biggest reason for logging a Find like that is the possibility that the couple might break up later or the children get old enough to sometimes cache on their own, but that is more to the detriment of the Finder than the CO or other cachers.

 

People worried about being "tracked" or whatnot are, probably 99% of the time, being paranoid. (The other 1% of the time they actually are being stalked by psychos.) If you want to be all secretive or hide from The Man what are you even doing on the internet in the first place?

 

The number one reason I log my Finds online is it's the easiest way to track what I have and haven't found. Sure, it's possible to track through other methods, but it requires alot of extra effort compared to always being able to look at any cache page and know whether I've Found or DNF'd it before.

 

Sharing my experiences and thoughts is a close second though.

 

Here's something to think about: if most cachers didn't log online how would anyone know what the good caches are? Favorite points, seeing finds by other cachers with similar tastes, reading logs, etc. can be pretty important in figuring out what to seek.

[+Mudfrog]

 

If there were no online logging, I wouldn't geocache. Logging is a connection with the community. A way to say thank you to the cache owner for providing a fun experience. A way to journal my experience. A way to communicate and share with other finders. I enjoy that part of geocaching.

 

As a cache owner, I wouldn't bother hiding caches - I need to know my efforts to create and maintain are worth it - that people have enjoyed the overall experience. That my cache is not simply another kernel in the big geocaching popcorn bowl. Thankfully there are a majority of cacher finders in my area that log, and actually say something about the particular caches they've found. They make up for the non-loggers, the copy & paste and the acronym loggers.

 

Exactly!

If everyone decided they couldn't be bothered to log online, there would be no point at all in hiding caches. For the good of the geocaching community? Some altruistic feeling? Nonsense! And those that say they feel that and that's why they hide caches way are fooling themselves, and us by saying it.

There would be no Geocaching Community without online logging! How could there be?

Those that do not log online because they can't be bothered, aren't wrong .. they're just selfish users!

 

This topic always makes me burn when the "I never log online" crowd come out and say the only real requirement for a find is "Sign the log". There are always links to text that supports that, but in almost every place that is stated, it is followed in context by something like "share your experiences online"! It's convenient to ignore the entire text and only focus on statements that support their selfishness.

 

But signing the log is the only real requirement isn't it?

 

Other than massaging the ego is it really that important?

 

I get a little steamed when people try to take something purely optional and try to tell me it's something that I have to do or I'm selfish. I love logs. I love writing them and reading them but I'm not going to tell someone their selfish because they choose not to write one.

 

I love the pessimistic notion that the only reason to hide a cache is the online log. Without that, there's no value to the activity of geocaching what so ever.

 

I guess I'm just altruistic, if that's ok?

 

It's cute how just not getting around to logging a cache is selfish, but threatening to pull out of the game entirely because of a rumour about some people not logging is a totally reasonable reaction. The forum is weird.

 

I liken it to the trackables game. People put these things out there for others to enjoy, to log, to move from cache to cache...to LOG. If nobody logs it, it starts to feel like a pointless exercise. Maybe people are finding it, maybe not. No way to tell, really. Eventually it just becomes one more thing that you own but get no feedback on...and it's likely you just end up not really wanting to do it anymore. Maybe it's a bit selfish as a cache owner to want the feedback. Maybe it's a bit selfish to feel like you don't have to give feedback. Maybe we can all understand the others' viewpoints on the matter and not snidely comment that their point of view is "cute" or perplexing.

I was just about to try and post but then spotted your reply. Nicely stated J Grouchy!

[+briansnat]

 

If there were no online logging, I wouldn't geocache. Logging is a connection with the community. A way to say thank you to the cache owner for providing a fun experience. A way to journal my experience. A way to communicate and share with other finders. I enjoy that part of geocaching.

 

As a cache owner, I wouldn't bother hiding caches - I need to know my efforts to create and maintain are worth it - that people have enjoyed the overall experience. That my cache is not simply another kernel in the big geocaching popcorn bowl. Thankfully there are a majority of cacher finders in my area that log, and actually say something about the particular caches they've found. They make up for the non-loggers, the copy & paste and the acronym loggers.

 

That is my sentiment exactly. Logging online is a big part of why geocaching succeeded. The shared experiences are a huge part of the sport. Going to an event and your ice breaker with someone you never previously met is "I saw your log on...". Letterboxing had a 100+ year head start on geocaching, but the popularity of geocaching surpassed LBing immediately after its beginning. The shared experiences had a lot to do with that. If you were a Letterbox owner the only way to know whether your hide was found required a trek out there to look at the log book.

 

Though I'm a letterboxer and geocacher, I've hidden over 350 geocaches and zero letterboxes. It wasn't a conscious decision to do that. I always meant to hide a few letterboxes, but it was the instant feedback via online logs that attracted me to hiding geocaches. If I'm spending the time, effort and money to hide a cache I want feedback that tells me my efforts were enjoyed without having to visit each logbook. Without that immediate feedback I probably would have never hidden a second geocache.

Edited February 10, 2016 by briansnat

[+justintim1999]

 

If there were no online logging, I wouldn't geocache. Logging is a connection with the community. A way to say thank you to the cache owner for providing a fun experience. A way to journal my experience. A way to communicate and share with other finders. I enjoy that part of geocaching.

 

As a cache owner, I wouldn't bother hiding caches - I need to know my efforts to create and maintain are worth it - that people have enjoyed the overall experience. That my cache is not simply another kernel in the big geocaching popcorn bowl. Thankfully there are a majority of cacher finders in my area that log, and actually say something about the particular caches they've found. They make up for the non-loggers, the copy & paste and the acronym loggers.

 

Exactly!

If everyone decided they couldn't be bothered to log online, there would be no point at all in hiding caches. For the good of the geocaching community? Some altruistic feeling? Nonsense! And those that say they feel that and that's why they hide caches way are fooling themselves, and us by saying it.

There would be no Geocaching Community without online logging! How could there be?

Those that do not log online because they can't be bothered, aren't wrong .. they're just selfish users!

 

This topic always makes me burn when the "I never log online" crowd come out and say the only real requirement for a find is "Sign the log". There are always links to text that supports that, but in almost every place that is stated, it is followed in context by something like "share your experiences online"! It's convenient to ignore the entire text and only focus on statements that support their selfishness.

 

But signing the log is the only real requirement isn't it?

 

Other than massaging the ego is it really that important?

 

I get a little steamed when people try to take something purely optional and try to tell me it's something that I have to do or I'm selfish. I love logs. I love writing them and reading them but I'm not going to tell someone their selfish because they choose not to write one.

 

I love the pessimistic notion that the only reason to hide a cache is the online log. Without that, there's no value to the activity of geocaching what so ever.

 

I guess I'm just altruistic, if that's ok?

 

Think about your own caches.

Every one of them has fav. points awarded. If it wasn't for those that log online you would never know if people like them or not. and without the nice logs I see there, would you have hidden more? I wonder.

 

Maybe it's not a requirement in the sense that you can delete finds if someone hasn't signed the log, but check out Geocaching 101

The second heading of How is the game played? includes "Share your geocaching stories and photos online." . The third heading of What are the rules of Geocaching? which has only 3 points includes "Log your experience at www.geocaching.com." so, sorry, but to me logging online IS required, or at least very desirable ... it's just not enforced. And so it shouldn't be. There are many reasons someone might choose to not log online, but if you read what I wrote, I said those that just can't be bothered!

 

And for your statement "Other than massaging the ego is it really that important?"

I can see wet logs, damaged and/or missing caches, and the game sliding into nothing without them, so yeah .. they're important.

 

Yes. I've already stated that if every cacher signed the on-line log with TFTC I'd still hide caches.

 

I see the logging your find on-line as not a necessity but as a suggested guideline to playing the game. I agree that it's a great part of the geocaching experience. The question posed by the op was, is logging your find on-line a requirement?

 

Is it "very desirable?", yes.

 

Is it required? No.

 

What's wrong with not logging a find on-line and sending an e-mail to the cache owner regarding any problems with the cache? I would guess that most cachers who do not log on-line probably already do this.

 

The current condition of caches out there has little to do with the select few who choose not to log on-line.

[+Happy Humphrey]

So...if someone goes to your cache and finds it (and puts it back as found) and doesn't log it at all, is that still "wrong"?

He/she might just keep a personal tally of finds (or not bother). It's pretty much the same as signing the log in the field but not online.

I quite like having the option of NOT logging online, although I feel an obligation to the cache owner.