+geocat_ Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 Was part of a discussion in another forum about logging finds online. The thread started out by the OP asking whether or not there is some sort of rule about logging finds online within a certain time frame. Some discussion was had about folks who had logged finds months or even years later and the general consensus was that this if acceptable. Then it was mentioned that some geocachers never log their finds online. Someone was quick to jump in with "Groundspeak has several pages devoted to telling you how to log a find online, so they have clearly implied that logging online is a requirement" (emphasis added). He does add, "Of course, this assumes the person has enough common sense to understand that what is understood and doesn't need to be spelled out" I have a caching buddy who's friend never logs online. When I asked if this was a violation of Groundspeak's rules, this gentleman said it is "WRONG" to cache this way and likened it to making up your own rules for a board game, therefore has, "no respect for people who think the rules are beneath them" My opinion is that there is not stated or implied "rule" about logging finds online per Groundspeak. I don't think to not log online is "wrong" either. Am I missing something? I mean, I understand some of the other rules such as signing the actual log book and keeping the cache as you found it which are essential to the game, but I don't think there is any necessity to log online. Just my opinion but curious about yours. Quote Link to comment
+cerberus1 Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 There's still quite a few who sign the container's log, but never/rarely go online in my area. These people seem to be the ones who actually spend time at distant (if a notepad/ledger is inside...) caches, with drawings often included with their wordy logs. I always understood that the only thing I needed to do was sign the container's log (as a "cover-yer-can" thing), if I was logging a Found It! online. Quote Link to comment
+irisisleuk Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 I wouldn't say its wrong. Destroying a cache, not logging trackables, not hiding the cache after a found, those things are really wrong. But I'm not saying that not logging is right either. As a CO I would like to know who has found the cache, if things were fine or if the cache needs maintenance. A kind of thank you by writing down your experience is very welcome as well, not just for me as a cache owner, but also for others who like to read logs from fellow cachers' adventures. Logs are part of the game, not just for the (in)convience of the person who found the cache. I know some say that they make up for it by writing a nice log in the logbook, but I'm not going to read the logbooks every month, and if a cache gets muggled or the logs get unreadable because someone left the cache open, before I got a chance to read it... And how about photos? But if you want to share nothing, not even a thank you that includes a bit more than just TFTC, if everything was fine with the cache and you don't want to log it online, I don't mind and I don't think its wrong, it just isn't right either. Quote Link to comment
+SlackMac Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 But if you want to share nothing, not even a thank you that includes a bit more than just TFTC, if everything was fine with the cache and you don't want to log it online, I don't mind and I don't think its wrong, it just isn't right either. That is an excellent answer, irisisleuk ! Geocachers obviously get pleasure from searching for & finding caches. (Or they wouldn't bother doing it). If these same people feel that spending a minute or two to log on line, (hopefully including at least a short sentence about the search), is "too much of a bother", then I feel they simply have not understood the game. Quote Link to comment
+geocat_ Posted February 8, 2016 Author Share Posted February 8, 2016 Great points irisisleuk! As someone who owns nearly 200 caches, I appreciate what you are saying about enjoying the logs of people who have found my caches. And I am also annoyed to some extent with the TFTC and Found it! logs. Most of these are from newer cachers, at least around here. So I usually just breathe a heavy sigh and get over it. My friend's friend is actually an experienced cacher who has found probably close to 10000 caches but simply chooses not to log them online. But as long as he plays by the rules and signs the actual logs (which he does) and doesn't do any of the things you mentioned, I am happy just to know I made him happy. I guess I was just irked at this other guy making a judgement about people who don't log online, calling them "wrong" and "bad". Many are not avoiding logging due to laziness, but of their own choice. Thanks for the great input guys! Quote Link to comment
+justintim1999 Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 Ahhh, Imagine caching without keeping score. Geocaching in it's purest form. As a cache owner I have no problem with someone finding one of my caches and not logging it online. Though it would be nice to get an e-mail if there was an issue. Quote Link to comment
+cerberus1 Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 I disagree with "not understanding the game". Many of the folks who don't log online I'm aware of have participated in this hobby since it started, some with "member since" '00 and '01 on their profiles. I think they understand "the game" fine, which is why it continues to be a hobby for some. Quote Link to comment
+geocat_ Posted February 8, 2016 Author Share Posted February 8, 2016 I disagree with "not understanding the game". Many of the folks who don't log online I'm aware of have participated in this hobby since it started, some with "member since" '00 and '01 on their profiles. I think they understand "the game" fine, which is why it continues to be a hobby for some. Yes, I agree. This individual is pretty pretentious. He seems to enjoy casting "the law" down on everyone. Quote Link to comment
+AustinMN Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 Geocaching.com is not a monopoly. Although their caches are few and far between, there are other geocaching sites. There is no guideline violation in listing a cache on more than one site. Just because it was not logged on Geocaching.com does not mean it was not logged on-line. Quote Link to comment
+Wet Pancake Touring Club Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 Definitely not wrong. I sometimes cache with two relatives. The first actually has a GC.com account. She hasn't used it in years, doesn't want to bother with the administrivia. The other is my niece, who only geocaches with me, and is too young to have her own account. Both will sign the log, and and not log on GC.com. I find that sometimes it helps to take an example to extremes, or look at the reverse of a situation. Sometimes this helps to show how silly an assumption is. This this in mind, I'm going off to hypothetical land for a minute, and reverse the question. Would it be wrong to place a cache KNOWING that lots of non-geocachers will be signing the log, and not logging it online? See GCHQJM for a cache where the log book is a visitors register. By the way, for the middle of nowhere, this location gets a lot of visitors. Maybe two or three per day. Skye. Quote Link to comment
+dprovan Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 I can't even imagine anyone caring whether someone logged their finds online. Quote Link to comment
+Samn1 Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 It's everyone's own decision I think, if they want to log it online or not. From my point of view, I enjoy the planning ahead (which caches to search for, which are in the neighborhood, ...) and the logging afterwards online just as amusing as finding the stashes (and signing the logbook) itself! Quote Link to comment
+captnemo Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 The inventor of Geocaching Dave Umber does not log online! I have found his name in cache logs however. Another cacher who started when I did does not log online. It's a game play it your way. The online log requires a signature in the cache not the other way around. I do have an issue with those who log a cache years latter for no good reason. Had one recently whose online log was over 2 years after the visit, surprise the cache log had there name. Quote Link to comment
+TriciaG Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 As a cache owner, I'd prefer people didn't log finds online at all than log them years after the find. Quote Link to comment
+Mudfrog Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 Ahhh, Imagine caching without keeping score. Geocaching in it's purest form. As a cache owner I have no problem with someone finding one of my caches and not logging it online. Though it would be nice to get an e-mail if there was an issue. The thing is, it doesn't bother us because we usually never know that someone found but didn't log. In my case, i log mainly to keep up with what i've found and haven't found. If i didn't, it wouldn't be long before i'd begin getting confused on what caches i had already found and which i hadn't. It would be a pain to manually write up a diary/log to keep up with this. It's so simple to log online and let the website do this for me. Of course, this is not a problem for those who rarely find caches. Some people forgo logging online because they don't want their stats to show online. There are a few reasons but imo, the positives of logging online outweigh the negatives when a person caches very often. In the real world, most COs place caches for the enjoyment of others. They like seeing logs come in from finders who had a good time finding their cache. It may not be wrong, but it does almost seem like those who do this are taking and not giving. Quote Link to comment
+Ambrosia Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 The inventor of Geocaching Dave Umber does not log online! I have found his name in cache logs however. Another cacher who started when I did does not log online. It's a game play it your way. The online log requires a signature in the cache not the other way around. I do have an issue with those who log a cache years latter for no good reason. Had one recently whose online log was over 2 years after the visit, surprise the cache log had there name. How do you know if they don't have a good reason? As a cache owner, I'd prefer people didn't log finds online at all than log them years after the find. I am regularly one to two years behind on my logging, because of health issues. It's very important that I log something longer than just a "TFTC", so I get very behind. But I want my logs to be "good", partly for the cache owner. It makes me sad to think that a cache owner would rather not get my older log that I actually put some thought into. Quote Link to comment
+cerberus1 Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 In my case, i log mainly to keep up with what i've found and haven't found. If i didn't, it wouldn't be long before i'd begin getting confused on what caches i had already found and which i hadn't. It would be a pain to manually write up a diary/log to keep up with this. It's so simple to log online and let the website do this for me. +1 Though I'd be happy with an online log today that doesn't include a find count, that helpful, big cache-page smiley (reminding me I found it) is what keeps me logging online. Quote Link to comment
+captnemo Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 The inventor of Geocaching Dave Umber does not log online! I have found his name in cache logs however. Another cacher who started when I did does not log online. It's a game play it your way. The online log requires a signature in the cache not the other way around. I do have an issue with those who log a cache years latter for no good reason. Had one recently whose online log was over 2 years after the visit, surprise the cache log had there name. How do you know if they don't have a good reason? If they do I would hope they would state. When a old log shows up it makes it very hard to confirm the signature, which I do as this cache is near the start of a power trail and there have been those who just log the everything on the road but who have never visited the cache. I am regularly one to two years behind on my logging, because of health issues. It's very important that I log something longer than just a "TFTC", so I get very behind. But I want my logs to be "good", partly for the cache owner. It makes me sad to think that a cache owner would rather not get my older log that I actually put some thought into. A very good reason but a "TFTC" log would solve the confirmation issue and could be edited latter. AS a cache owner I love to read the logs. Quote Link to comment
+Ambrosia Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 (edited) The inventor of Geocaching Dave Umber does not log online! I have found his name in cache logs however. Another cacher who started when I did does not log online. It's a game play it your way. The online log requires a signature in the cache not the other way around. I do have an issue with those who log a cache years latter for no good reason. Had one recently whose online log was over 2 years after the visit, surprise the cache log had there name. How do you know if they don't have a good reason? If they do I would hope they would state. When a old log shows up it makes it very hard to confirm the signature, which I do as this cache is near the start of a power trail and there have been those who just log the everything on the road but who have never visited the cache. I am regularly one to two years behind on my logging, because of health issues. It's very important that I log something longer than just a "TFTC", so I get very behind. But I want my logs to be "good", partly for the cache owner. It makes me sad to think that a cache owner would rather not get my older log that I actually put some thought into. A very good reason but a "TFTC" log would solve the confirmation issue and could be edited latter. AS a cache owner I love to read the logs. A few problems with that. I'd still have to keep some sort of a list (I keep a "Log" bookmark list) to remember which cache logs need to be edited later. My pride can't let me log "TFTC" and then edit it later because then people would think that I write "TFTC" logs. The cache owner would likely never know if I edited the log if I edited it a year later. They would never get to read the real log. If I log it when I can, they get an email notice with the real log right there. I could delete the "TFTC" log and then submit a new one when I'm ready, but then that would defeat the whole purpose. Edited February 8, 2016 by Ambrosia Quote Link to comment
+lee737 Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 Sounds like it would be easier to just write the logs than mess about with a reminder system to do it later? Occasionally I'll do a field log on the phone, only if we have retrieved/dropped off a TB though, I can't stand the thought of the cache being out in the hours after we leave. Then I just write 'field note' and go back and edit at home that night. Quote Link to comment
+Ambrosia Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 Sounds like it would be easier to just write the logs than mess about with a reminder system to do it later? Occasionally I'll do a field log on the phone, only if we have retrieved/dropped off a TB though, I can't stand the thought of the cache being out in the hours after we leave. Then I just write 'field note' and go back and edit at home that night. Well, putting a cache on a bookmark list just takes two clicks. I know it's hard to understand when you're not in the same position as me. I wouldn't have understood it before getting sick. I used to be very uptight about being on top of everything in my life. I would respond to emails immediately. I would log my finds immediately. Etc. I just finished a log for a cache I found a month ago. It took me two whole days to compose it. Granted, it was about 650 words long. Quote Link to comment
+IOError Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 (edited) In my case, i log mainly to keep up with what i've found and haven't found. If i didn't, it wouldn't be long before i'd begin getting confused on what caches i had already found and which i hadn't. It would be a pain to manually write up a diary/log to keep up with this. It's so simple to log online and let the website do this for me. +1 Though I'd be happy with an online log today that doesn't include a find count, that helpful, big cache-page smiley (reminding me I found it) is what keeps me logging online. +1 for me too. It's the only reason I can see to log online personally. It's the same reason I use goodreads for books. I'm lazy about "paperwork" type things in general, and these sites just take that task off my plate and allow me to focus on, and enjoy, just wandering around and reading. Edited February 8, 2016 by IOError Quote Link to comment
cezanne Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 (edited) I know it's hard to understand when you're not in the same position as me. I wouldn't have understood it before getting sick. I used to be very uptight about being on top of everything in my life. I would respond to emails immediately. I would log my finds immediately. Etc. I do not find it hard to understand. It also happened several times to me that I was weeks behind with certain logs. When coming back from a long hike, I'm often too tired to log in the style I wish to log such caches and moreover other things wait for me that have a higher priority than logging and then it can take quite a while to find the time to write my log. Even know when the edited .... does not shop up on the cache page any longer, I would not want to write a short log that gets edited later. Edited February 8, 2016 by cezanne Quote Link to comment
+TriciaG Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 I am regularly one to two years behind on my logging, because of health issues. It's very important that I log something longer than just a "TFTC", so I get very behind. But I want my logs to be "good", partly for the cache owner. It makes me sad to think that a cache owner would rather not get my older log that I actually put some thought into. Well, that's a bit different. Usually the late logs I see are simply something like, "Found this one 8 months ago. Just getting around to logging it now. TFTC" and that's it. A late but good log is better than no log, but a late "TFTC" log might as well not be made, IMHO. Quote Link to comment
+Manville Possum Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 I have no problem with others not logging online. The best logs ever on some of my caches are from hikers and not geocachers that use my caches as summit registers, ect. Quote Link to comment
+dprovan Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 In the real world, most COs place caches for the enjoyment of others. They like seeing logs come in from finders who had a good time finding their cache. It may not be wrong, but it does almost seem like those who do this are taking and not giving. I understand what they're not giving, but I don't understand what they're taking. Quote Link to comment
+lee737 Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 If it weren't for online logs, there would be no log at all for a large percentage of caches I've found, at least a record is held after caches are neglected/lost/stolen/washed away/burnt etc.... Quote Link to comment
+Ambrosia Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 I am regularly one to two years behind on my logging, because of health issues. It's very important that I log something longer than just a "TFTC", so I get very behind. But I want my logs to be "good", partly for the cache owner. It makes me sad to think that a cache owner would rather not get my older log that I actually put some thought into. Well, that's a bit different. Usually the late logs I see are simply something like, "Found this one 8 months ago. Just getting around to logging it now. TFTC" and that's it. A late but good log is better than no log, but a late "TFTC" log might as well not be made, IMHO. I see a lot of late logs on my virtuals. A fair amount of them don't say that they're logging late (I don't either), and it can be very confusing when I realize that they're not currant, especially when the virtual isn't even accessible when they're being logged. Quote Link to comment
+Tassie_Boy Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 The cache owner would likely never know if I edited the log if I edited it a year later. They would never get to read the real log. If I log it when I can, they get an email notice with the real log right there. Does nobody else just scroll through their cache pages from time to time just to have a look through? They would have a chance to read it then. Quote Link to comment
+geocat_ Posted February 9, 2016 Author Share Posted February 9, 2016 "Physical caches can be logged online as "Found" once the physical log has been signed." (from geocaching's guidelines - note the use of the word "can" and not "should" or "must") From Groundspeak Support: "logging a cache and keeping personal notes, and NOT logging online is the personal business of that geocacher." Quote Link to comment
+tallglenn Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 I am regularly one to two years behind on my logging, because of health issues. It's very important that I log something longer than just a "TFTC", so I get very behind. But I want my logs to be "good", partly for the cache owner. It makes me sad to think that a cache owner would rather not get my older log that I actually put some thought into. ...but you are able to make 7900 timely posts to the forum? Many of us have health issues that affect our geocaching - at face value yours seems to be more of a "priorities" issue? Quote Link to comment
+Manville Possum Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 I am regularly one to two years behind on my logging, because of health issues. It's very important that I log something longer than just a "TFTC", so I get very behind. But I want my logs to be "good", partly for the cache owner. It makes me sad to think that a cache owner would rather not get my older log that I actually put some thought into. ...but you are able to make 7900 timely posts to the forum? Many of us have health issues that affect our geocaching - at face value yours seems to be more of a "priorities" issue? Does this issue of not logging online in a timely manner bother you? If so, maybe I understand your health issue that is effecting your geocaching. Quote Link to comment
+Ambrosia Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 I am regularly one to two years behind on my logging, because of health issues. It's very important that I log something longer than just a "TFTC", so I get very behind. But I want my logs to be "good", partly for the cache owner. It makes me sad to think that a cache owner would rather not get my older log that I actually put some thought into. ...but you are able to make 7900 timely posts to the forum? Many of us have health issues that affect our geocaching - at face value yours seems to be more of a "priorities" issue? Nice for you to assume. I started heavily posting to these forums before I got sick (over ten years ago), and as I progressed. The bulk of my posting was a long time ago. Now, I post in jags. I do a lot of things online in jags: posting, logging, reviewing, moderating. In a few days I may be a hermit again. My health issues are physical and mental. It's also easier to post in the forums because I'm having a conversation with people. Writing logs is like writing a book. It takes extra thinking, creativity, organization. I get gummed up. I've been trying to create an EC for years, but haven't been able to get past creating the description because it's so much more complicated than a normal cache page. I'm starting to think that this conversation is getting more into a side tangent to the actual topic of the thread. Quote Link to comment
+tallglenn Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 I am regularly one to two years behind on my logging, because of health issues. It's very important that I log something longer than just a "TFTC", so I get very behind. But I want my logs to be "good", partly for the cache owner. It makes me sad to think that a cache owner would rather not get my older log that I actually put some thought into. ...but you are able to make 7900 timely posts to the forum? Many of us have health issues that affect our geocaching - at face value yours seems to be more of a "priorities" issue? Does this issue of not logging online in a timely manner bother you? If so, maybe I understand your health issue that is effecting your geocaching. If you are replying to me, then no, you do not understand my health issue. Quote Link to comment
+Manville Possum Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 I am regularly one to two years behind on my logging, because of health issues. It's very important that I log something longer than just a "TFTC", so I get very behind. But I want my logs to be "good", partly for the cache owner. It makes me sad to think that a cache owner would rather not get my older log that I actually put some thought into. ...but you are able to make 7900 timely posts to the forum? Many of us have health issues that affect our geocaching - at face value yours seems to be more of a "priorities" issue? Does this issue of not logging online in a timely manner bother you? If so, maybe I understand your health issue that is effecting your geocaching. If you are replying to me, then no, you do not understand my health issue. Maybe I do if little things like how others log their finds at their convince do. Quote Link to comment
+geocat_ Posted February 9, 2016 Author Share Posted February 9, 2016 Good grief folks, can we agree to stand down and return to the original topic? Please? Quote Link to comment
+tallglenn Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 I am regularly one to two years behind on my logging, because of health issues. It's very important that I log something longer than just a "TFTC", so I get very behind. But I want my logs to be "good", partly for the cache owner. It makes me sad to think that a cache owner would rather not get my older log that I actually put some thought into. ...but you are able to make 7900 timely posts to the forum? Many of us have health issues that affect our geocaching - at face value yours seems to be more of a "priorities" issue? Does this issue of not logging online in a timely manner bother you? If so, maybe I understand your health issue that is effecting your geocaching. If you are replying to me, then no, you do not understand my health issue. Maybe I do if little things like how others log their finds at their convince do. Nope. Quote Link to comment
+niraD Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Good grief folks, can we agree to stand down and return to the original topic? Please?Ah, yes... Not Logging is WRONG! WRONG, I tell you! With a capital T, and that rhymes with P, and that stands for... Uh, where was I? Quote Link to comment
+Crow-T-Robot Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 I don't have an issue with someone not logging their finds online, but I also hold the view that geocaching has two opposing elements that work together to make it special. Barring events or group outings, geocaching is a solitary activity. It's a hobby for people who, for the most part, like to get out and away from other people. The opposing force to that is that it's also a global community, a network where like-minded people gather. Sharing your stories through your logs is the extent that most people have in regards to social contact with other geocachers. I don't go to events, so personally, it makes me feel like I'm part of the group. It's hard to imagine someone that doesn't log anything online would get that same feeling of community and sharing. I have no doubt they are enjoying geocaching in their own way, but that way is foreign to me. Not wrong by any means, just different. I don't know that I would have continued to geocache if the ability to log finds online had never been part of the experience. Quote Link to comment
+hydnsek Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 (edited) I don't have an issue with someone not logging their finds online, but I also hold the view that geocaching has two opposing elements that work together to make it special. Barring events or group outings, geocaching is a solitary activity. It's a hobby for people who, for the most part, like to get out and away from other people. The opposing force to that is that it's also a global community, a network where like-minded people gather. Sharing your stories through your logs is the extent that most people have in regards to social contact with other geocachers. I don't go to events, so personally, it makes me feel like I'm part of the group. It's hard to imagine someone that doesn't log anything online would get that same feeling of community and sharing. I have no doubt they are enjoying geocaching in their own way, but that way is foreign to me. Not wrong by any means, just different. I don't know that I would have continued to geocache if the ability to log finds online had never been part of the experience. Interesting viewpoint, and one that speaks to me, as I also enjoy caching alone much of the time and online logs are key to my interactions. However, for most cachers here in the Pacific Northwet, it's a group activity. Lots of group outings and teams, and many folks won't even consider caching without at least one buddy. There's a strong communal culture here in the shadow of Groundspeak. Many of these folks are also into cut-and-paste logs, perhaps because they get their interactions in real life, whereas it's important to me to write unique logs, even when I have 100 caches to log (and yes, that sometimes takes me a while). Edited February 9, 2016 by hydnsek Quote Link to comment
+The_Incredibles_ Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 (edited) I find it kind of creepy if people don't log their finds online. Having said that, I know a lot of people who do that, including my own mother!!! These are the people who are super casual cachers. They don't cache very often and if they do, usually, they're with someone who's an avid cacher. I used to take families out and most of our members would never log their finds online. In this case, I don't think it's critical that you log online, especially if your friend mentions you in their log. However, if you're going out by yourself, I think there are situations where you should log online, even if you normally don't. For instance, if a cache is missing or in need of maintenance or not found very often, you should let the owner know. At least take the time to send them an email. I think if you're not doing that, you're being selfish. I know a couple who went and found a cache that is only found a few times a year. As usual, they didn't log it online, even though they are avid cachers. I think that was a pretty selfish thing to do, especially considering the cache owner or other cachers might be wondering about the status of the cache. I don't hide my caches for people like that. Edited February 9, 2016 by The_Incredibles_ Quote Link to comment
+hydnsek Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 But if you want to share nothing, not even a thank you that includes a bit more than just TFTC, if everything was fine with the cache and you don't want to log it online, I don't mind and I don't think its wrong, it just isn't right either. That is an excellent answer, irisisleuk ! Geocachers obviously get pleasure from searching for & finding caches. (Or they wouldn't bother doing it). If these same people feel that spending a minute or two to log on line, (hopefully including at least a short sentence about the search), is "too much of a bother", then I feel they simply have not understood the game. I couldn't disagree more. There's nothing wrong with not logging online. Groundspeak has made it clear from the beginning that logging online is optional (see quote below), and I know several long-time cachers who love the game but rarely log online, including one of my best friends. He enjoys exploring the great outdoors and the thrill of the hunt and find - and that's the point of this game, right? He certainly appreciates the caches and the efforts of those who created them (he owns a few himself), but logging online just isn't a key part of the game for him, as he doesn't feel the need to keep score, tell the world what he's doing, or be part of the caching community. That's his choice, and it's not wrong, lazy, or a negative reflection on the caches or owners. I'm the opposite. As a cacher and cache owner, I really appreciate and enjoy reading online logs, and I always post my finds online with unique logs (albeit sometimes late; sorry to those who dislike this, as well). My personal peeve is more with folks who write those TFTC logs or cut-and-paste the same thing for 50 caches (even for special or unique caches - talk about lazy and uninformative). "Physical caches can be logged online as "Found" once the physical log has been signed." (from geocaching's guidelines - note the use of the word "can" and not "should" or "must") From Groundspeak Support: "logging a cache and keeping personal notes, and NOT logging online is the personal business of that geocacher." Thanks for the reminder, geocat! Quote Link to comment
+Pontiac_CZ Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Logs (and preferably the nice ones ) are the only reward for an owner's work. So I feel that if I visited a cache and did not let the owner know about it through my log... that would be selfish. I would only take and would not give. Quote Link to comment
cezanne Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 (edited) He enjoys exploring the great outdoors and the thrill of the hunt and find - and that's the point of this game, right? He certainly appreciates the caches and the efforts of those who created them (he owns a few himself), but logging online just isn't a key part of the game for him, as he doesn't feel the need to keep score, tell the world what he's doing, or be part of the caching community. That's his choice, and it's not wrong, lazy, or a negative reflection on the caches or owners. I agree that wrong is not the right word, however I strongly believe that online logs or a very important part of the activity as they should inform the cache owner and prospective finders about the status of the cache. If a small number cachers are not writing online logs, that's not a real issue. If the majority would stick to that behaviour, I certainly would not have maintained my caches over many years. They are not close to each other and all have several stages - I'm relying to some extent to the input I get. Does your friend contact cache owners by e-mail if he came across a problem with a cache he visited? If not, that's something I really regard as inappropriate and in a way selfish. Also for a cache that gets very few visits (e.g. one on average every year or every two years), it definitely would be appreciated by the cache owner to receive a short note (need not be sent via the gc.com page) about the cache status. Edited February 9, 2016 by cezanne Quote Link to comment
+L0ne.R Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 1455000793[/url]' post='5563622']I find it kind of creepy if people don't log their finds online. Having said that, I know a lot of people who do that, including my own mother!!! These are the people who are super casual cachers. They don't cache very often and if they do, usually, they're with someone who's an avid cacher. I used to take families out and most of our members would never log their finds online. In this case, I don't think it's critical that you log online, especially if your friend mentions you in their log. However, if you're going out by yourself, I think there are situations where you should log online, even if you normally don't. For instance, if a cache is missing or in need of maintenance or not found very often, you should let the owner know. At least take the time to send them an email. I think if you're not doing that, you're being selfish. I know a couple who went and found a cache that is only found a few times a year. As usual, they didn't log it online, even though they are avid cachers. I think that was a pretty selfish thing to do, especially considering the cache owner or other cachers might be wondering about the status of the cache. I don't hide my caches for people like that. I agree. I wonder if some cachers who regularly cache and have an account, don't log because they are private-types. They don't like being tracked. Groundspeak provides everyone access to all finds in a chronological order. Quote Link to comment
+justintim1999 Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Ahhh, Imagine caching without keeping score. Geocaching in it's purest form. As a cache owner I have no problem with someone finding one of my caches and not logging it online. Though it would be nice to get an e-mail if there was an issue. The thing is, it doesn't bother us because we usually never know that someone found but didn't log. In my case, i log mainly to keep up with what i've found and haven't found. If i didn't, it wouldn't be long before i'd begin getting confused on what caches i had already found and which i hadn't. It would be a pain to manually write up a diary/log to keep up with this. It's so simple to log online and let the website do this for me. Of course, this is not a problem for those who rarely find caches. Some people forgo logging online because they don't want their stats to show online. There are a few reasons but imo, the positives of logging online outweigh the negatives when a person caches very often. In the real world, most COs place caches for the enjoyment of others. They like seeing logs come in from finders who had a good time finding their cache. It may not be wrong, but it does almost seem like those who do this are taking and not giving. I also log online as a way of keeping track of caches I've done and caches I like. It's also a convenient way to thank the cache owner for taking the time and placing the cache. I guess some people need that positive reinforcement they get through online logs. I admit it's nice but not necessary. Quote Link to comment
+justintim1999 Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 I know it's hard to understand when you're not in the same position as me. I wouldn't have understood it before getting sick. I used to be very uptight about being on top of everything in my life. I would respond to emails immediately. I would log my finds immediately. Etc. I do not find it hard to understand. It also happened several times to me that I was weeks behind with certain logs. When coming back from a long hike, I'm often too tired to log in the style I wish to log such caches and moreover other things wait for me that have a higher priority than logging and then it can take quite a while to find the time to write my log. Even know when the edited .... does not shop up on the cache page any longer, I would not want to write a short log that gets edited later. Ahhh, now it starts to make sense. Quote Link to comment
+narcissa Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 (edited) I can't even imagine anyone caring whether someone logged their finds online. Me neither. For all this talk about games and rules, some people are just determined to overlook the primary reason for playing a game in the first place. Fun? Who wants to have fun when we can sow discord and make enemies of strangers for no reason. Edited February 9, 2016 by narcissa Quote Link to comment
+J Grouchy Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 I can't even imagine anyone caring whether someone logged their finds online. Me neither. For all this talk about games and rules, some people are just determined to overlook the primary reason for playing a game in the first place. Fun? Who wants to have fun when we can sow discord and make enemies of strangers for no reason. It's all well and good that neither of you can "imagine" it... but just like everyone seems to want to remind us all, we each cache "in our own way". Likewise, we each have different ways of finding what we enjoy about the game. Perhaps you ought not look down on others for looking at the game in a certain way...for wanting cachers to log their finds in a timely manner, for not wanting pointless "TFTC" logs, for trading up/trading even...whatever aspects of the game they find personally rewarding. Quote Link to comment
+bflentje Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 It's like a couple of other super-charged political issues.. I don't pretend to understand it, why someone would wait days, weeks, months or even years to log. But it doesn't bother me one bit, doesn't affect me, and I don't think about it at all. I suppose in some circles that makes me late-log-o-phobic. LOL. Quote Link to comment
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