Make sure you get permision from the RIGHT person

[Boomhawr]

First off, don't worry, it all turned out fine, BUT there was a cache placed in the tree of our family cemetery. We found out from the people who live across the fence that it was there. It turned out that a member of the family HAD given permission, BUT she had failed to let the family member who is in charge (and pays for the upkeep out of her OWN POCKET) know about. While I was there, our cousin (the caretaker) showed up, so we let her know, and she was fine with it, so no big deal this time, BUT in other cases, it could go the other way.

 

Now, this is mainly on the family member for now checking with the cousin who was given charge of the place, but a good thought to insure no troubles or losses of caches, is to make sure the permission is from the RIGHT person.

 

Another incident is a friend who is in charge of the small historic cemetery by his house. No permission was given. After people pulling into his driveway at 2:00 AM and nosing around the cemetery repeatedly, he started thinking it maybe it was a drug deal or something. They finaly found a geocache in the cemetery that did not have permission to be there. He said he turned it into the police, contacted HQ, and placed closed hours on the cemetery. Now, he doesn't care much (to say the least) for geocachers. Bad PR there.

 

This isn't to complain, just to point out where some extra caution can save some trouble.

[+Manville Possum]

First off, don't worry, it all turned out fine, BUT there was a cache placed in the tree of our family cemetery. We found out from the people who live across the fence that it was there. It turned out that a member of the family HAD given permission, BUT she had failed to let the family member who is in charge (and pays for the upkeep out of her OWN POCKET) know about. While I was there, our cousin (the caretaker) showed up, so we let her know, and she was fine with it, so no big deal this time, BUT in other cases, it could go the other way.

 

Now, this is mainly on the family member for now checking with the cousin who was given charge of the place, but a good thought to insure no troubles or losses of caches, is to make sure the permission is from the RIGHT person.

 

Another incident is a friend who is in charge of the small historic cemetery by his house. No permission was given. After people pulling into his driveway at 2:00 AM and nosing around the cemetery repeatedly, he started thinking it maybe it was a drug deal or something. They finaly found a geocache in the cemetery that did not have permission to be there. He said he turned it into the police, contacted HQ, and placed closed hours on the cemetery. Now, he doesn't care much (to say the least) for geocachers. Bad PR there.

 

This isn't to complain, just to point out where some extra caution can save some trouble.

 

I would think there is a dusk to dawn Law pertaining to cemetery access in most states, not that geocachers would care. Most would just use more "stealth".

[Boomhawr]

true, but last I knew, Texas left it up to those in charge of the cemetery, but I'm no attorney.

[+Manville Possum]

true, but last I knew, Texas left it up to those in charge of the cemetery, but I'm no attorney.

 

I thought Texas had a Law that trespassers could be shot after dark on private property.

 

I know here in Virginia it is illegal to trespass after dark in a cemetery.

 

There are also a few states where Groundspeak will not publish any new geocaches in cemeteries.

[Boomhawr]

haha. There's a little more to the law on shooting people than that (sadly ).

[+NYPaddleCacher]

First off, don't worry, it all turned out fine, BUT there was a cache placed in the tree of our family cemetery. We found out from the people who live across the fence that it was there. It turned out that a member of the family HAD given permission, BUT she had failed to let the family member who is in charge (and pays for the upkeep out of her OWN POCKET) know about. While I was there, our cousin (the caretaker) showed up, so we let her know, and she was fine with it, so no big deal this time, BUT in other cases, it could go the other way.

 

Now, this is mainly on the family member for now checking with the cousin who was given charge of the place, but a good thought to insure no troubles or losses of caches, is to make sure the permission is from the RIGHT person.

 

Another incident is a friend who is in charge of the small historic cemetery by his house. No permission was given. After people pulling into his driveway at 2:00 AM and nosing around the cemetery repeatedly, he started thinking it maybe it was a drug deal or something. They finaly found a geocache in the cemetery that did not have permission to be there. He said he turned it into the police, contacted HQ, and placed closed hours on the cemetery. Now, he doesn't care much (to say the least) for geocachers. Bad PR there.

 

This isn't to complain, just to point out where some extra caution can save some trouble.

 

Also keep in mind that when a cache is place in a place frequented by the general public, even when permission is obtained from the right person, chances are that if someone notices a geocacher finding/replacing the cache it's probably not going to be the person that granted permission.

 

It could be one of their employees (who was not informed about the cache), just someone from the general public who also is on the property, or a law enforcement officer (LEO). So even when permission is obtained, someone seeing what that deem to be suspicious behavior may still call the police and it could even escalate to a visit by the bomb squad before the person that granted permission is even aware of it.

[Boomhawr]

Very true. That's why I'm a bit sketchy about caching in town. Just waiting for the cops to show up to see what kinda drugs I'm picking up. I've passed up on a number of them because of that.

[+noncentric]

Now, this is mainly on the family member for now checking with the cousin who was given charge of the place, but a good thought to insure no troubles or losses of caches, is to make sure the permission is from the RIGHT person.

Not trying to make any excuses regarding this particular situation, and I don't necessarily disagree with your statement about "the RIGHT person". However, consider that if someone gives the CO permission, then how does the CO know that the permission grantor is not the 'right' person? The permission grantor should know whether they have the authority or not, but how does the CO know that the permission grantor is the 'wrong' person?

 

It could be a lack of due diligence by either the permission grantor or the CO. Sometimes people just make mistakes and are not trying to be malicious. I think it's unfair to expect every CO to be able to know that the person granting them permission is the 'wrong' person. I have a vague recollection of this being discussed before.

[Boomhawr]

That's where the second paragraph in my original post comes in:

 

Now, this is mainly on the family member for not checking with the cousin who was given charge of the place, but a good thought to insure no troubles or losses of caches, is to make sure the permission is from the RIGHT person.

 

 

But, also, if it's something like a cemetery or something along those lines, you should ask who the person in charge of it is, just to be safe.

 

And "just being safe" is the only reason I brought this. NOT to complain about what happened.

Edited December 17, 2015 by Boomhawr

[+Tassie_Boy]

That's where the second paragraph in my original post comes in:

 

Now, this is mainly on the family member for not checking with the cousin who was given charge of the place, but a good thought to insure no troubles or losses of caches, is to make sure the permission is from the RIGHT person.

 

 

But, also, if it's something like a cemetery or something along those lines, you should ask who the person in charge of it is, just to be safe.

 

And "just being safe" is the only reason I brought this. NOT to complain about what happened.

 

But still how is the potential CO supposed to know if they are talking to the right person?

If you go there and the person you talk to is "from the family" is not unreasonable to assume you have got the permission you need. Anything behind the scenes, within the family is for the family to work out.

[+L0ne.R]

Is there a registry of cemetery owners and caretakers?

[+niraD]

I would think there is a dusk to dawn Law pertaining to cemetery access in most states

I haven't noticed any kind of state-wide consistency in the cemetery caches I've found. Many cemeteries have posted hours, but they aren't consistent. Some cemeteries have been open well past sunset, even during the summer, including one that featured a night cache. But I've found caches in only a few states.

[+Manville Possum]

I would think there is a dusk to dawn Law pertaining to cemetery access in most states

I haven't noticed any kind of state-wide consistency in the cemetery caches I've found. Many cemeteries have posted hours, but they aren't consistent. Some cemeteries have been open well past sunset, even during the summer, including one that featured a night cache. But I've found caches in only a few states.

Maybe geocaching in cemeteries is not a good idea, and Groundspeak should take a closer look?

 

Tennessee and South Carolina are two examples.

[Boomhawr]

That's where the second paragraph in my original post comes in:

 

Now, this is mainly on the family member for not checking with the cousin who was given charge of the place, but a good thought to insure no troubles or losses of caches, is to make sure the permission is from the RIGHT person.

 

 

But, also, if it's something like a cemetery or something along those lines, you should ask who the person in charge of it is, just to be safe.

 

And "just being safe" is the only reason I brought this. NOT to complain about what happened.

 

But still how is the potential CO supposed to know if they are talking to the right person?

If you go there and the person you talk to is "from the family" is not unreasonable to assume you have got the permission you need. Anything behind the scenes, within the family is for the family to work out.

 

Again, in that case it IS the FAMILY MEMBER who wasn't doing right. I've already said that. BUT In the other case I mentioned, NO permission was giving AT ALL!!

 

But, I mentioned the one with my family cemetery to point out that the person giving permission MAY NOT be the "right" person, so (first off) it is a good idea to ask to be sure, and then (secondly) keep in mind the possibility that due to the "behind the scenes" stuff, the cache could get removed, or what have ya. Some people may not realize that this is a possibility, so I just wanted to give them a heads up. I our case, it was all good, and no one cared, but in the other case (where there was NO permission), it ended up being a problem, and the cache was handed over to the police department.

[Boomhawr]

Is there a registry of cemetery owners and caretakers?

 

Not that I know of.

[Boomhawr]

I would think there is a dusk to dawn Law pertaining to cemetery access in most states

I haven't noticed any kind of state-wide consistency in the cemetery caches I've found. Many cemeteries have posted hours, but they aren't consistent. Some cemeteries have been open well past sunset, even during the summer, including one that featured a night cache. But I've found caches in only a few states.

Maybe geocaching in cemeteries is not a good idea, and Groundspeak should take a closer look?

 

Tennessee and South Carolina are two examples.

 

Guess it depends on if those in charge are ok, and every is respectful of the cemetery and those who live around it. Our case was fine, but the other I mentioned, cachers were becoming a nuisance, and the CO didn't have permission (the president of the cemetery association lived right across the fence, and had people coming up his driveway in the middle of the night, then walking the cemetery looking for it).

[+Manville Possum]

I would think there is a dusk to dawn Law pertaining to cemetery access in most states

I haven't noticed any kind of state-wide consistency in the cemetery caches I've found. Many cemeteries have posted hours, but they aren't consistent. Some cemeteries have been open well past sunset, even during the summer, including one that featured a night cache. But I've found caches in only a few states.

Maybe geocaching in cemeteries is not a good idea, and Groundspeak should take a closer look?

 

Tennessee and South Carolina are two examples.

 

Guess it depends on if those in charge are ok, and every is respectful of the cemetery and those who live around it. Our case was fine, but the other I mentioned, cachers were becoming a nuisance, and the CO didn't have permission (the president of the cemetery association lived right across the fence, and had people coming up his driveway in the middle of the night, then walking the cemetery looking for it).

Maybe the cache should be archived?

[+niraD]

I would think there is a dusk to dawn Law pertaining to cemetery access in most states

I haven't noticed any kind of state-wide consistency in the cemetery caches I've found. Many cemeteries have posted hours, but they aren't consistent. Some cemeteries have been open well past sunset, even during the summer, including one that featured a night cache. But I've found caches in only a few states.

Maybe geocaching in cemeteries is not a good idea, and Groundspeak should take a closer look?

Not in my experience. But YMMV, especially in states that prohibit honoring departed family members by placing certain prohibited memorial items ("Eek! A geocache!") at their grave sites.

[+wmpastor]

Maybe geocaching in cemeteries is not a good idea....

 

Case-by-case is better. And cacher common sense is important. I found two in a cemetery that were fine. The location is large and has a steady flow of visitors, so cachers create no disturbance. Reminders of protocol are sometimes wisely put in the cache listing. Also, a cemetery hide should not be high difficulty (requiring endless circling and poking around GZ).

[+narcissa]

Geocaching has taken me to countless fascinating old cemeteries, including some where I actually have direct ancestors. Most of the time, the caches are hidden away from the graves in order to minimize problems.

 

That being said, a small percentage of those caches have been pretty careless hides. The most egregious was one with bad coordinates that was causing people to rifle through the mementos at a child's grave. Graves, families, and the people who operate cemeteries must be treated with dignity and respect or we will continue to lose access to these places.

 

The laws that govern cemeteries seem to differ tremendously from one place to the next, and I think reviewers generally do a good job of staying aware, but there will always be caches that slip through the cracks and get published when they shouldn't. As a community, the best thing we can do to keep things in check is to raise red flags through assertive use of the NM and NA features.

[+Mudfrog]

Geocaching has brought me to some nice historic cemeteries as well so i'd sure hate to see a overall prohibition of cemetery hides take place.

 

Two things that took place here: Miscommunication of family members and that a request that cachers not try for the cache during certain hours wasn't made. The latter is the more important, imo, as it should be made on most all cemetery hides. Of course i'm not so naive to believe that some people would ignore the request, but it would help curb many of those 2am finds.

[Boomhawr]

no, you're a bit off there on the second point. These are 2 different situations, at 2 different cemeteries. The 1 where they were coming in the middle of the night, the CO didn't even have permission to put it there in the first place.

[medoug]

Here's a tip that I discovered for finding out who to gain permission for a cache placement in an "active" cemetery:

 

Look in the phone book for the closest cemetery monument retailer. Tell them that you need to know who to contact regarding an issue in a specified cemetery. They can usually provide the name of the maintenance person or members of the board for that cemetery as they usually work with those people when placing new stones. (Note that this only works with "active" cemeteries where monuments are still being added.) If they can only give you the name of the maintenance person, contact them to find out who is on the board. If it is a small cemetery, the board may only meet a couple times per year, so you might need to be patient with your cache placement before all members of the board can discuss it together and make a decision. If it's a really small cemetery, there may be just a single person in charge (sometimes it's actually the same as the maintenance person) to get permission from.

 

Does anyone have any tips for getting permission contacts for "inactive" (historic, neglected) cemeteries?

[+Manville Possum]

Geocaching has brought me to some nice historic cemeteries as well so i'd sure hate to see a overall prohibition of cemetery hides take place.

 

That's what I enjoy most about Waymarking, the old historic sites. I like the Find a Grave site too, it is really interesting, much better than Waymarking.

[+Mudfrog]

no, you're a bit off there on the second point. These are 2 different situations, at 2 different cemeteries. The 1 where they were coming in the middle of the night, the CO didn't even have permission to put it there in the first place.

 

I read that but still mistakenly made it one cemetery. Still, i'd say it's a good idea to designate visiting hours on most cemetery cache pages, even on those where permission was given. Having said that, i suppose it's ok when it's your Family cemetery and you don't mind 2am traffic.