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Greedy Geocachers?


barry54

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We've got two obsessive FTFers in our area. The only worst thing than listening to their smug logs is the "I'm not an FTF shark" rubbish they keep posting and their feeble justification about "just being in the area." Part of the joy around here is beating them two :D :D :D

"just being in the area"--yes, we have one of those. Amazing how many times this person just happened to be driving by the cache site when he got the notification. There's a group in our area who I swear must sit in their cars/trucks just waiting to be notified of a new cache.

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We've got two obsessive FTFers in our area. The only worst thing than listening to their smug logs is the "I'm not an FTF shark" rubbish they keep posting and their feeble justification about "just being in the area." Part of the joy around here is beating them two :D :D :D

"just being in the area"--yes, we have one of those. Amazing how many times this person just happened to be driving by the cache site when he got the notification. There's a group in our area who I swear must sit in their cars/trucks just waiting to be notified of a new cache.

 

I *saw* one sitting in his parked car ready to roll. I stopped to say hello. Busted!

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We've got two obsessive FTFers in our area. The only worst thing than listening to their smug logs is the "I'm not an FTF shark" rubbish they keep posting and their feeble justification about "just being in the area." Part of the joy around here is beating them two :D :D :D

"just being in the area"--yes, we have one of those. Amazing how many times this person just happened to be driving by the cache site when he got the notification. There's a group in our area who I swear must sit in their cars/trucks just waiting to be notified of a new cache.

 

I *saw* one sitting in his parked car ready to roll. I stopped to say hello. Busted!

 

?????

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...the notification came out at 11:50pm or thereabouts. One of these was in the village where I live, so early next morning a friend and I set off to find it. We were disappointed to find that it had already been logged, but surprised that it was logged at 3:52am! Checking the other caches in the series it seems that he's logged FTF on all except a couple he could not find, between about half past midnight and 6am!...

 

I wonder if he is just an extreme Geocacher or if he works odd hours for him to find the Geocaches at the time?

 

One of my friends is a bartender. When we go out for breakfast/dinner (my breakfast, his dinner), we usually meet at IHOP or the Waffle House at 4AM in the morning.

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I was FTF of a cache years ago and I had some inside info about it so I hang out in that area and wait for the email! The story is like this...a FTF hog (this person had alot of help)had some inside info but "someone" was playing a "judas" and wanna mess it up and gave that info to me. I was lucky bump into another cacher that was caching in the area and ask him to join me and he did. :blink: The main part of the story is this: stop cheating or backfired! :ph34r::lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Edited by SwineFlew
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We've got two obsessive FTFers in our area. The only worst thing than listening to their smug logs is the "I'm not an FTF shark" rubbish they keep posting and their feeble justification about "just being in the area." Part of the joy around here is beating them two :D :D :D

"just being in the area"--yes, we have one of those. Amazing how many times this person just happened to be driving by the cache site when he got the notification. There's a group in our area who I swear must sit in their cars/trucks just waiting to be notified of a new cache.

 

I *saw* one sitting in his parked car ready to roll. I stopped to say hello. Busted!

 

So you figured he had inside information and was waiting for the cache to drop? I would think this was a tough thing to do because i doubt your reviewer publishes them at a known specific time. But if this is the case, i'll agree that you have a goofy person that needs to get a life. Best thing to do is ignore him and his caching activities. Of course, i'd call him on it if he bragged to me in person and i knew for a fact what he was doing. :laughing:

 

The ftf game is fun when it stays a friendly competition and isn't taken too seriously. I've met quite a few cachers while out on a ftf run and always had a good time making those finds with them. :)

Edited by Mudfrog
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We've got two obsessive FTFers in our area. The only worst thing than listening to their smug logs is the "I'm not an FTF shark" rubbish they keep posting and their feeble justification about "just being in the area." Part of the joy around here is beating them two :D :D :D

"just being in the area"--yes, we have one of those. Amazing how many times this person just happened to be driving by the cache site when he got the notification. There's a group in our area who I swear must sit in their cars/trucks just waiting to be notified of a new cache.

 

I *saw* one sitting in his parked car ready to roll. I stopped to say hello. Busted!

 

So you figured he had inside information and was waiting for the cache to drop? I would think this was a tough thing to do because i doubt your reviewer publishes them at a known specific time. But if this is the case, i'll agree that you have a goofy person that needs to get a life. Best thing to do is ignore him and his caching activities. Of course, i'd call him on it if he bragged to me in person and i knew for a fact what he was doing. :laughing:

 

The ftf game is fun when it stays a friendly competition and isn't taken too seriously. I've met quite a few cachers while out on a ftf run and always had a good time making those finds with them. :)

 

Some reviewers got habits... always at a given time everyday. :lol:

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We've got two obsessive FTFers in our area. The only worst thing than listening to their smug logs is the "I'm not an FTF shark" rubbish they keep posting and their feeble justification about "just being in the area." Part of the joy around here is beating them two :D :D :D

"just being in the area"--yes, we have one of those. Amazing how many times this person just happened to be driving by the cache site when he got the notification. There's a group in our area who I swear must sit in their cars/trucks just waiting to be notified of a new cache.

 

I *saw* one sitting in his parked car ready to roll. I stopped to say hello. Busted!

 

So you figured he had inside information and was waiting for the cache to drop? I would think this was a tough thing to do because i doubt your reviewer publishes them at a known specific time. But if this is the case, i'll agree that you have a goofy person that needs to get a life. Best thing to do is ignore him and his caching activities. Of course, i'd call him on it if he bragged to me in person and i knew for a fact what he was doing. :laughing:

 

The ftf game is fun when it stays a friendly competition and isn't taken too seriously. I've met quite a few cachers while out on a ftf run and always had a good time making those finds with them. :)

 

Some reviewers got habits... always at a given time everyday. :lol:

 

Yeah, caches around here usually come out at night,,, but it does vary at times. The thing is, the person sitting in his car waiting has to know this and also know that there is actually a cache coming out in a specific area. It's just hard to believe that this cacher has all this info at his disposal.

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It's just hard to believe that this cacher has all this info at his disposal.

 

It has been known to happen that cachers have a sock puppet account they place caches under.

 

So they have ALL the info they need.

 

I'm sure you are right. I have a feeling that many of the people that do this also sign the log when they hide the cache. Honestly though, i don't imagine this kind of stuff happens all that often. Most FTF hounds work for their title. They set up notifications and don't mind running out the door at any hour when one comes in.

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Do you have any greedy geocachers in your area?

 

I'm not sure "greedy" is the right word.. competitive maybe.. but not greedy.

 

I've always thought FTF's were down to luck.. being in the right place at the right time and being able to dash off at a moments notice to grab the cache at the earliest opportunity. Once the reviewer has hit the publish button, all those who have chosen to receive notifications for new caches will receive an email.. and it is up to them how they react to it.

 

 

In our area (Eastern England) we have one guy who gets FTF on the vast majority of published caches. For example, a series of 26 'alphabet' caches was published the other day - the notification came out at 11:50pm or thereabouts. One of these was in the village where I live, so early next morning a friend and I set off to find it. We were disappointed to find that it had already been logged, but surprised that it was logged at 3:52am! Checking the other caches in the series it seems that he's logged FTF on all except a couple he could not find, between about half past midnight and 6am!

 

If the FTF was more important than the cache itself, why didn't you go out and find it as soon as it was published?

 

This guy obviously did.. but he couldn't be in 26 places at once.. so there was plenty of opportunity for anyone else to grab one or two FTF's for themselves if they so desired.

 

Did you think that because one of the caches was in your village you were somehow entitled to the FTF? He gave you plenty of opportunity - the cache came live at 11:50pm and he didn't get to it until 4 HOURS later! :blink:

 

I am REALLY really NOT a FTF shark.. but there is something magical about dashing out of the door at almost midnight to beat the FTF sharks to a cache which is right on your doorstep... :laughing:

 

I did it myself on Thursday night. I had just got home from a meal out with friends and checked my emails before heading up to bed.. there were 3 new notifications - two were 10+ miles away as the crow flies.. but one was only 1.9miles away and was roadside and around the corner from where I grew up.. I couldn't resist. :lol:

 

Funny thing is.. we have a local cacher who reacts in pretty much the same way as you have. The only difference is that he used to get the vast majority of FTF's himself and so his reaction comes from bitterness at being beaten. He believes he is some kind of Emperor and the minions who live in HIS kingdom should leave all the FTF's for him.. and if they don't he writes grumpy logs with veiled claims of unfair practices.. or he posts notes declaring the cache a waste of time just because the FTF has gone.

 

The other night when I got the FTF in my village, he himself had dashed off for the other two which were published at the same time.. and then posted a silly note (since deleted by the CO) on the 3rd one saying "I was going to come for this on my way home but there's no point now" and berating me for daring to get there first. :sad:

 

I checked all 194 caches published this year in a ten mile radius and he's claimed FTF on 127 out of 194.

 

Now, there's no reason why he can't do this - its not against any rules or anything, it just feels a bit like the sort of person who, when the buffet opens, runs to the front and grabs all the chicken legs so theres none left for anyone else!

 

I guess he's having a great time, but it seems to take the fun out of the game for everyone else. You know that if you spot a new cache you're very unlikely to get to it first.

 

Just because he got there first it doesn't mean there is nothing left for anyone else. The cache is still there for anyone and everyone to find. It doesn't become any less fun just because someone else got there first.. you can still enjoy finding a new cache in a new location.. if it is a decent cache there will still be a good log book to sign and some decent swag.. and if the FTF is so important to you, don't sit around waiting for someone to hand it to you on a plate.. take a leaf out of my book and give him some competition! :lol: :lol:

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We were disappointed to find that it had already been logged, but surprised that it was logged at 3:52am!

 

What about those of us who work night shift? I went to a CITO yesterday and the hosting cacher commented on my late night FTF's. I usually leave work around 3am and I check my email before I leave and if I see something new that I know I might have a chance at getting on my way home then I'll check it out. I won't go out of my way for one though. I have found quite a few caches after work simply for the fact that I just wasn't tired enough to come home yet. it makes it more interesting and sometimes a little more difficult to be less suspicious which just adds to the fun. I have a few FTF's during the day when people are at work just from out running around before work. It's not being greedy, its just fun! With being at work 50-60 hours a week and finding time to do what needs to be done, I cache when I can.

Edited by Dradicus
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There's a local cacher, who shall remain nameless, who is very fond of getting loads of FTFs.

 

Now, when it comes to me I've got a few over the years, but the excitement isn't there. I'm more than happy for the local newbs to get their FTFs, so I really don't try much anymore. And when I do score one I don't fuss over it or even point out I'm FTF. I'm good with just making the find.

 

Really, I do see the frustration others experience. When you have hounds they do tend to spoil an aspect of the game for others. It is greed, it's piling up a mountain you can show to others - others who may see the hound as a twit. So, if you want to be seen as a hound, go for it.

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In about 10 years of caching I have just short of 200 FTF's, having never been a FTF hound beyond the first year. Now I enjoy sitting back and watching the newest breed of FTF hounds tear crap up and destroy geocaches and surrounding areas all in the name of getting it first. I don't care about the first part. What irritates me is the first "at any cost" attitude.. and I ain't referring to greed.

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Greedy? Were the Yankees of the 1950's "greedy" because they won most of the World Series? Were the Boston Celtics of the 1960's "greedy" because they won most of the NBA championships? Is Usain Bolt "greedy" because he wins most races he's in? I'm no fan of the FTF scene, but it is a competition and that competitive aspect is a huge part of the attraction for the FTF hounds. Would you genuinely feel satisfied winning a race if you knew the faster person slowed up to let you win?

 

Geocaching is different things to everyone. Some thrive on the competitive aspect of FTFs. That doesn't make them greedy at all, it's simply the part of the game that they are into. If you are into the FTF thing then you need to compete. Be ready to go out at 1 a.m. Be ready to leave your kid's birthday party to hop in your car and go. That's not my thing and obviously not yours either, otherwise you wouldn't be complaining.

 

So enjoy the game on your own terms and if your terms include seeking that FTF, then be prepared to put in the work. Don't expect it to be handed to you.

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...the notification came out at 11:50pm or thereabouts. One of these was in the village where I live, so early next morning a friend and I set off to find it. We were disappointed to find that it had already been logged, but surprised that it was logged at 3:52am! Checking the other caches in the series it seems that he's logged FTF on all except a couple he could not find, between about half past midnight and 6am!...

 

I wonder if he is just an extreme Geocacher or if he works odd hours for him to find the Geocaches at the time?

 

One of my friends is a bartender. When we go out for breakfast/dinner (my breakfast, his dinner), we usually meet at IHOP or the Waffle House at 4AM in the morning.

As opposed to 4AM in the evening? :ph34r:

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Do you have any greedy geocachers in your area?

 

I'm not sure "greedy" is the right word.. competitive maybe.. but not greedy.

 

I've always thought FTF's were down to luck.. being in the right place at the right time and being able to dash off at a moments notice to grab the cache at the earliest opportunity. Once the reviewer has hit the publish button, all those who have chosen to receive notifications for new caches will receive an email.. and it is up to them how they react to it.

 

 

In our area (Eastern England) we have one guy who gets FTF on the vast majority of published caches. For example, a series of 26 'alphabet' caches was published the other day - the notification came out at 11:50pm or thereabouts. One of these was in the village where I live, so early next morning a friend and I set off to find it. We were disappointed to find that it had already been logged, but surprised that it was logged at 3:52am! Checking the other caches in the series it seems that he's logged FTF on all except a couple he could not find, between about half past midnight and 6am!

 

If the FTF was more important than the cache itself, why didn't you go out and find it as soon as it was published?

 

This guy obviously did.. but he couldn't be in 26 places at once.. so there was plenty of opportunity for anyone else to grab one or two FTF's for themselves if they so desired.

 

Did you think that because one of the caches was in your village you were somehow entitled to the FTF? He gave you plenty of opportunity - the cache came live at 11:50pm and he didn't get to it until 4 HOURS later! :blink:

 

I am REALLY really NOT a FTF shark.. but there is something magical about dashing out of the door at almost midnight to beat the FTF sharks to a cache which is right on your doorstep... :laughing:

 

I did it myself on Thursday night. I had just got home from a meal out with friends and checked my emails before heading up to bed.. there were 3 new notifications - two were 10+ miles away as the crow flies.. but one was only 1.9miles away and was roadside and around the corner from where I grew up.. I couldn't resist. :lol:

 

Funny thing is.. we have a local cacher who reacts in pretty much the same way as you have. The only difference is that he used to get the vast majority of FTF's himself and so his reaction comes from bitterness at being beaten. He believes he is some kind of Emperor and the minions who live in HIS kingdom should leave all the FTF's for him.. and if they don't he writes grumpy logs with veiled claims of unfair practices.. or he posts notes declaring the cache a waste of time just because the FTF has gone.

 

The other night when I got the FTF in my village, he himself had dashed off for the other two which were published at the same time.. and then posted a silly note (since deleted by the CO) on the 3rd one saying "I was going to come for this on my way home but there's no point now" and berating me for daring to get there first. :sad:

 

I checked all 194 caches published this year in a ten mile radius and he's claimed FTF on 127 out of 194.

 

Now, there's no reason why he can't do this - its not against any rules or anything, it just feels a bit like the sort of person who, when the buffet opens, runs to the front and grabs all the chicken legs so theres none left for anyone else!

 

I guess he's having a great time, but it seems to take the fun out of the game for everyone else. You know that if you spot a new cache you're very unlikely to get to it first.

 

Just because he got there first it doesn't mean there is nothing left for anyone else. The cache is still there for anyone and everyone to find. It doesn't become any less fun just because someone else got there first.. you can still enjoy finding a new cache in a new location.. if it is a decent cache there will still be a good log book to sign and some decent swag.. and if the FTF is so important to you, don't sit around waiting for someone to hand it to you on a plate.. take a leaf out of my book and give him some competition! :lol: :lol:

 

"I'm not an FTF shark" "I just happened to be passing 20 miles from home"

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We've got two obsessive FTFers in our area. The only worst thing than listening to their smug logs is the "I'm not an FTF shark" rubbish they keep posting and their feeble justification about "just being in the area." Part of the joy around here is beating them two :D :D :D

"just being in the area"--yes, we have one of those. Amazing how many times this person just happened to be driving by the cache site when he got the notification. There's a group in our area who I swear must sit in their cars/trucks just waiting to be notified of a new cache.

 

I *saw* one sitting in his parked car ready to roll. I stopped to say hello. Busted!

 

?????

 

In my area, not the OP's, of course.

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We lived in an area where one had to be at GZ within 5 minutes to get a FTF, and in an area where it sometimes paid off to leave early the first coming weekend day, or just wait until you get to that area and be surprised if it's still a FTF a while later. Our current area doesn't have new cache placements thus no idea what the situation is :D

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I had never thought about going for a FTF as a competition until I stumbled across this thread a few days ago. Low and behold, today I had my first new cache notification since joining in Sept. It arrived in my inbox at 0950 but I only noticed it at 1400. I thought surely it must've been found by now? I checked the cache page and there was no FTF log. My interest levels peaked... I thought "I'll just go fill the car up and then I'll check again." So I did. And it was STILL unlogged and now I have a car with petrol and its only 20 mins away. "Right, I'm going for it."

 

I rushed down there (observing local speed limits, of course). Parked up about half a mile away as it was down a track and this was as close as I could get. It was along an old railway line converted into a foot/cycle path so it was dead straight and I could see quite a few walkers between me and GZ. Checked my phone, still no log. I was certain that some of these people must be looking for it too. On arriving at GZ there were no other people looking suspicious so I pretended to be trying to make a call while a few people walked past. Once they were gone I jumped into the trees and made the find within a few minutes. I still wasn't sure if I was going to be FTF, what if somebody had found it but were waiting to log it later on? I was nervous, my hands were shaking. This was a lot of fun :)

 

Boom! My first FTF. I was very proud of myself. I even won a little souvenir to take with me.

 

I really did enjoy the fast pace of the FTF hunt and I can see why people might get addicted to it. I don't think I'll make it my thing though. I normally have a wife and a 6yr old in tow and they're incredibly difficult to move along quickly at short notice. I hope I get to share a FTF with them one day soon but in the meantime we're just really enjoying our new hobby.

 

Whatever your thing is, be safe :)

 

Edited for fat-fingers

Edited by RosiesDaddyBear
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These threads don't make any sense. The only reason some people place value on FTF is that there is an element of competition since only one person or group can be FTF, but then people want the competition element to go away so they can get a FTF without effort. What is the point? If your name calling succeeds in making the competition stay home, what is the value of being FTF? Who's really being greedy?

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These threads don't make any sense. The only reason some people place value on FTF is that there is an element of competition since only one person or group can be FTF, but then people want the competition element to go away so they can get a FTF without effort. What is the point? If your name calling succeeds in making the competition stay home, what is the value of being FTF? Who's really being greedy?

I agree with you, but I'm not surprised. It's the same mentality that's made it normal for people focusing on getting college degrees while forgetting that the only point to a college degree is what you learn.

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There are a couple of hounds in my area. I have mixed feelings about them. They've torn up a site looking for one of my caches and complain if they feel it's too difficult. He even said in a post that caches are meant to be found and that mine are too difficult (just read the difficulty rating, will you?). I actually took pride in a couple of his comments because 90% of the caches in my area are boring and not very creative. I've also had to delete a few of his logs because he can get downright grumpy sometimes (ha ha).

 

On the plus side, because he tends to be so vocal, he provides me with valuable feedback about my cache. I am able to use this feedback to improve my caches (if the coords are off or if there are any dangers/annoyances in the area). So it's good to get early feedback to help improve the cache for others. Because he's a veteran, he has provided me great insight into how a typical cacher thinks. I can modify my hides to throw off a typical cacher and try to challenge them to think outside of the box. I came across a cache yesterday that had a few DNFs. It wasn't particularly difficult. It was hanging right there at eye level in a tree with no special camo. It was in a green container that just blended in well with the background. People got so caught up searching for it on the ground (it was near a grave site), that they never bothered to look up.

 

And narcissa, while this thread may not make any sense to you, there's a lot of good info in here. Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean you have to throw your own insults out there.

Edited by brookr1
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These threads don't make any sense. The only reason some people place value on FTF is that there is an element of competition since only one person or group can be FTF, but then people want the competition element to go away so they can get a FTF without effort. What is the point? If your name calling succeeds in making the competition stay home, what is the value of being FTF? Who's really being greedy?

I agree with you, but I'm not surprised. It's the same mentality that's made it normal for people focusing on getting college degrees while forgetting that the only point to a college degree is what you learn.

 

I think there's a danger in extending these parables to things outside the game. People get silly about games. I know more than a few people who seem very levelheaded in all other aspects of life who become very illogical and emotional about games.

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The only reason some people place value on FTF is that there is an element of competition
I wouldn't say it's the ONLY reason. It certainly seems like the most common reason, but I have heard some folks express interest in finding the cache just the way the CO placed it, apart from the competitive aspect. To me, it sounded like trying to be the first person skiing down a slope after a fresh snowfall. It isn't about defeating the other people. It's about getting to have the experience, before others have done things that change the experience.
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These threads don't make any sense. The only reason some people place value on FTF is that there is an element of competition since only one person or group can be FTF, but then people want the competition element to go away so they can get a FTF without effort. What is the point? If your name calling succeeds in making the competition stay home, what is the value of being FTF? Who's really being greedy?

I agree with you, but I'm not surprised. It's the same mentality that's made it normal for people focusing on getting college degrees while forgetting that the only point to a college degree is what you learn.

 

I think there's a danger in extending these parables to things outside the game. People get silly about games. I know more than a few people who seem very levelheaded in all other aspects of life who become very illogical and emotional about games.

 

I do agree with your first statement, that threads like these are kinda silly. People that start them know that there is a competition going on but at the same time, don't think that they should have to put forth much, if any, effort to win the competition. It wouldn't surprise me a bit if they had the same attitude towards trophies at sporting events. Whether a person/team won or lost, they should all get a trophy. :blink:

 

But i disagree with you that there is much danger here. Whether it's a game or something else in life,, most people display the same ways of thinking. In this case, they're sense of entitlement most likely extends to many other aspects of their lives. ;)

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There are a couple of hounds in my area. I have mixed feelings about them. They've torn up a site looking for one of my caches and complain if they feel it's too difficult. He even said in a post that caches are meant to be found and that mine are too difficult (just read the difficulty rating, will you?). I actually took pride in a couple of his comments because 90% of the caches in my area are boring and not very creative. I've also had to delete a few of his logs because he can get downright grumpy sometimes (ha ha).

I'm not seeing the relation. Do they only tear up sites and complain when they're on FTF hunts?

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The only reason some people place value on FTF is that there is an element of competition
I wouldn't say it's the ONLY reason. It certainly seems like the most common reason, but I have heard some folks express interest in finding the cache just the way the CO placed it, apart from the competitive aspect. To me, it sounded like trying to be the first person skiing down a slope after a fresh snowfall. It isn't about defeating the other people. It's about getting to have the experience, before others have done things that change the experience.

 

If that's the case, it seems like the onus is still on the geocacher or the skier to get out there as soon as possible, and that it's not reasonable to shout at other geocachers or skiers to stay away.

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These threads don't make any sense. The only reason some people place value on FTF is that there is an element of competition since only one person or group can be FTF, but then people want the competition element to go away so they can get a FTF without effort. What is the point? If your name calling succeeds in making the competition stay home, what is the value of being FTF? Who's really being greedy?

I agree with you, but I'm not surprised. It's the same mentality that's made it normal for people focusing on getting college degrees while forgetting that the only point to a college degree is what you learn.

 

I think there's a danger in extending these parables to things outside the game. People get silly about games. I know more than a few people who seem very levelheaded in all other aspects of life who become very illogical and emotional about games.

 

I do agree with your first statement, that threads like these are kinda silly. People that start them know that there is a competition going on but at the same time, don't think that they should have to put forth much, if any, effort to win the competition. It wouldn't surprise me a bit if they had the same attitude towards trophies at sporting events. Whether a person/team won or lost, they should all get a trophy. :blink:

 

But i disagree with you that there is much danger here. Whether it's a game or something else in life,, most people display the same ways of thinking. In this case, they're sense of entitlement most likely extends to many other aspects of their lives. ;)

 

But everyone does get a trophy in geocaching. You can claim the find whether you were first or not.

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To me, it sounded like trying to be the first person skiing down a slope after a fresh snowfall.

 

I've made first tracks down a run many times and, for me, getting a FTF doesn't even get close to that experience. Many years ago I was running a sound system for a band and we got to Jackson Hole, Wyoming about a week after the ski resort in town had closed for the season. It snowed the day after we got there so one of the band members and I took our skis (we were in Denver the previous week) and hiked up to the top. The we made figure 8's on the way down on the run facing the town. Our tracks could be seen for a week and a half.

 

Whenever a thread like this comes up there are a few that jump all over the OP, calling them entitled, and other names, and completely ignores the impact that someone who tries to be FTF on every new cache in the area might have on others that don't see the game as a competition. As I see it, this game could use a little more generosity and less greed.

 

 

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These threads don't make any sense. The only reason some people place value on FTF is that there is an element of competition since only one person or group can be FTF, but then people want the competition element to go away so they can get a FTF without effort. What is the point? If your name calling succeeds in making the competition stay home, what is the value of being FTF? Who's really being greedy?

I agree with you, but I'm not surprised. It's the same mentality that's made it normal for people focusing on getting college degrees while forgetting that the only point to a college degree is what you learn.

 

I think there's a danger in extending these parables to things outside the game. People get silly about games. I know more than a few people who seem very levelheaded in all other aspects of life who become very illogical and emotional about games.

 

I do agree with your first statement, that threads like these are kinda silly. People that start them know that there is a competition going on but at the same time, don't think that they should have to put forth much, if any, effort to win the competition. It wouldn't surprise me a bit if they had the same attitude towards trophies at sporting events. Whether a person/team won or lost, they should all get a trophy. :blink:

 

But i disagree with you that there is much danger here. Whether it's a game or something else in life,, most people display the same ways of thinking. In this case, they're sense of entitlement most likely extends to many other aspects of their lives. ;)

 

But everyone does get a trophy in geocaching. You can claim the find whether you were first or not.

 

Very true, but i was referring to the ftf competition itself. I admit, not really a good analogy. It's just that i have the feeling many of the people who do complain about greedy cachers probably think a trophy should be given to everyone who participates.

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These threads don't make any sense. The only reason some people place value on FTF is that there is an element of competition since only one person or group can be FTF, but then people want the competition element to go away so they can get a FTF without effort. What is the point? If your name calling succeeds in making the competition stay home, what is the value of being FTF? Who's really being greedy?

I agree with you, but I'm not surprised. It's the same mentality that's made it normal for people focusing on getting college degrees while forgetting that the only point to a college degree is what you learn.

 

I think there's a danger in extending these parables to things outside the game. People get silly about games. I know more than a few people who seem very levelheaded in all other aspects of life who become very illogical and emotional about games.

 

I do agree with your first statement, that threads like these are kinda silly. People that start them know that there is a competition going on but at the same time, don't think that they should have to put forth much, if any, effort to win the competition. It wouldn't surprise me a bit if they had the same attitude towards trophies at sporting events. Whether a person/team won or lost, they should all get a trophy. :blink:

 

But i disagree with you that there is much danger here. Whether it's a game or something else in life,, most people display the same ways of thinking. In this case, they're sense of entitlement most likely extends to many other aspects of their lives. ;)

 

But everyone does get a trophy in geocaching. You can claim the find whether you were first or not.

 

Very true, but i was referring to the ftf competition itself. I admit, not really a good analogy. It's just that i have the feeling many of the people who do complain about greedy cachers probably think a trophy should be given to everyone who participates.

 

I think it's a grave mistake to make such sweeping assumptions about people.

 

Trophies typically are given to everyone who participates in a recreational sport. Most people's success in life is based simply on showing up, participating, and seeing something through to the end. It's good to reinforce basic perseverance and the value of commitment in childhood with badges and trophies. Children aren't stupid. They know the difference between "Participant" and "Champion" and you're giving them short shrift if you think otherwise.

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These threads don't make any sense. The only reason some people place value on FTF is that there is an element of competition since only one person or group can be FTF, but then people want the competition element to go away so they can get a FTF without effort. What is the point? If your name calling succeeds in making the competition stay home, what is the value of being FTF? Who's really being greedy?

I agree with you, but I'm not surprised. It's the same mentality that's made it normal for people focusing on getting college degrees while forgetting that the only point to a college degree is what you learn.

 

I think there's a danger in extending these parables to things outside the game. People get silly about games. I know more than a few people who seem very levelheaded in all other aspects of life who become very illogical and emotional about games.

 

I do agree with your first statement, that threads like these are kinda silly. People that start them know that there is a competition going on but at the same time, don't think that they should have to put forth much, if any, effort to win the competition. It wouldn't surprise me a bit if they had the same attitude towards trophies at sporting events. Whether a person/team won or lost, they should all get a trophy. :blink:

 

But i disagree with you that there is much danger here. Whether it's a game or something else in life,, most people display the same ways of thinking. In this case, they're sense of entitlement most likely extends to many other aspects of their lives. ;)

 

But everyone does get a trophy in geocaching. You can claim the find whether you were first or not.

 

Very true, but i was referring to the ftf competition itself. I admit, not really a good analogy. It's just that i have the feeling many of the people who do complain about greedy cachers probably think a trophy should be given to everyone who participates.

 

I think it's a grave mistake to make such sweeping assumptions about people.

 

Trophies typically are given to everyone who participates in a recreational sport. Most people's success in life is based simply on showing up, participating, and seeing something through to the end. It's good to reinforce basic perseverance and the value of commitment in childhood with badges and trophies. Children aren't stupid. They know the difference between "Participant" and "Champion" and you're giving them short shrift if you think otherwise.

 

Assumption yes, but hardly a grave mistake. Yes i'm assuming, and you know what they say about that. :o Still, because i have witnessed variations of this many times, my opinion remains unchanged. At least for now.

 

I feel we've gotten a bit off topic with this so lets agree to disagree and move on. B)

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If reference to an earlier question about scheduling cache publications. Yes, you can have them scheduled, if you allow enough time for the reviewer to do so. Publishing is an automatic function, like scheduling an email blast - it's not like the reviewer is sitting at their computer waiting until 9:00 a.m., or whatever time, to push a button to publish your cache at the exact time you requested.

 

FTF hounds - there will always be some wherever you are. A few years ago we had a FTF hound who had staked out a rather large territory and it was getting annoying that he seemed to be scooping them all up. One evening a publication notice popped up on my phone for a new cache in my neck of the woods. I knew I was closer than him so I went for it and claimed the FTF. However, I neglected to post it online until the next morning, since technically you only have to sign the physical log book to claim the find. Sure enough, he drove all the way there only to discover he was STF and was pretty annoyed about his wasted effort. Guess you can't win 'em all. After that, it didn't bother me anymore.

 

I like grabbing an FTF if my schedule permits - its a good way to meet other cachers - but I am not going to obsess about it.

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Sure enough, he drove all the way there only to discover he was STF and was pretty annoyed about his wasted effort.

 

See, that right there shows he's in the wrong game. Sure, he may be a FTF hound, but he forgets one of the cardinal rules, namely that you can and occasionally will be beaten if you play the FTF game.

 

When I started in 2006, there were no smartphones logging caches, so if a cache published and you wanted to be FTF, you went for it not knowing if you'd succeed or not. It was fun to feel the pressure and anticipation. People almost always logged from home, and you never knew when the log would come, so that added to the feelings of the unknown. You could almost feel your heart sink if you saw another cacher's vehicle (or any vehicle, really) at the spot. It truly was a race to the cache.

 

Now? With the advent of cell phones, cache logging can be instantaneous and people actually get offended if you don't warn them ahead of time if they are going to fail in getting FTF. My, how times have changed.

 

Guess you can't win 'em all.

 

I wish more understood this.

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If reference to an earlier question about scheduling cache publications. Yes, you can have them scheduled, if you allow enough time for the reviewer to do so. Publishing is an automatic function, like scheduling an email blast - it's not like the reviewer is sitting at their computer waiting until 9:00 a.m., or whatever time, to push a button to publish your cache at the exact time you requested.

Are you sure about this? If this is true, then the process and tools have changed in the last year. I know for a fact that at least up to February 2015, caches were manually published by reviewers. The whole point of having to give the reviewer enough warning is so they can plan as much as possible to fulfill your wishes, which they sometimes can't do. If they could just schedule the automatic publishing of your cache, they wouldn't need any extra advance notice.

 

If Keystone or another reviewer happens to be monitoring this discussion, can you chime in and clarify? Do you have tools to automate the scheduled publishing of caches, or do you always have to "push the button" manually?

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There are a few FTF hounds near me. One is a husband/wife Duo which finds EVERY cache they can find so they grab FTF even if others have had a chance. (They usually give some time for others before they grab it). Another one will drive a half hour just to find a new cache and leave a few minutes before someone else comes up who hasn't had an FTF and wants one. There is also one who used to be an FTF hound, but now that his secrets of success have been revealed, he no longer goes for FTF, but many of his neighbors do. There are also people who go for FTF because they got informed about the cache but later on they either aren't as involved as others, or quit the game. I have yet to get an FTF, and I know many others are waiting to get FTF as well.

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I have read many of these posts and, while I don't think I am adding anything unique to the conversation, I felt compelled to put my two cents' worth. So here goes...

 

I enjoy going after FTFs. Some have been those "just discovered it's been published" caches, but others...many others, in my case...have been off-road or hikes and not just P&Gs. The average D/T rating for my FTFs is pretty high, much higher than my overall average. Often I am not FTF, but STF. While a disappointment, I put it in perspective. I have also allowed others to go after FTFs while I sit on the couch. Probably because I don't want to be 'THAT' guy.

 

Recently, I went after an FTF that had been languishing for well over four months! A little five-mile hike and the FTF was mine. Why others hadn't made the trip before me was an enigma. I don't mind FTF hounds. We have plenty in my area, and it really is a race sometimes. Often I will run into cachers at GZ. Then we spend some time telling geocaching war stories. Too fun...regardless of who got the FTF.

 

In just a couple of days a few months ago, I grabbed 16 FTFs, while saving about a dozen for someone else. Could I have gotten them all? Sure, but then again, I would be 'THAT' guy. No fun in that. Also, no prize either. I seldom take swag from a cache, unless it is a specific FTF prize (and I still leave it there from time to time).

 

That's about all I have. I can see the OP's point of view...to a degree. Where I am (Southern California), you have many other FTF hounds to beat, so the hunt can become intense. But that's OK, and it's also OK if someone beat me to it. All I have to do is wait...it will be my turn eventually!

 

 

 

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I have read many of these posts and, while I don't think I am adding anything unique to the conversation, I felt compelled to put my two cents' worth. So here goes...

 

I enjoy going after FTFs. Some have been those "just discovered it's been published" caches, but others...many others, in my case...have been off-road or hikes and not just P&Gs. The average D/T rating for my FTFs is pretty high, much higher than my overall average. Often I am not FTF, but STF. While a disappointment, I put it in perspective. I have also allowed others to go after FTFs while I sit on the couch. Probably because I don't want to be 'THAT' guy.

 

Recently, I went after an FTF that had been languishing for well over four months! A little five-mile hike and the FTF was mine. Why others hadn't made the trip before me was an enigma. I don't mind FTF hounds. We have plenty in my area, and it really is a race sometimes. Often I will run into cachers at GZ. Then we spend some time telling geocaching war stories. Too fun...regardless of who got the FTF.

 

In just a couple of days a few months ago, I grabbed 16 FTFs, while saving about a dozen for someone else. Could I have gotten them all? Sure, but then again, I would be 'THAT' guy. No fun in that. Also, no prize either. I seldom take swag from a cache, unless it is a specific FTF prize (and I still leave it there from time to time).

 

That's about all I have. I can see the OP's point of view...to a degree. Where I am (Southern California), you have many other FTF hounds to beat, so the hunt can become intense. But that's OK, and it's also OK if someone beat me to it. All I have to do is wait...it will be my turn eventually!

 

 

 

 

It wouldn't bother me one bit to be "that" guy if i was really into the ftf game. As long as i put in the effort and wasn't cheating in some way, i'm good. Just about anyone who wants a ftf can do the same.

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Those of you who are frustrated by the FTF fiends - can I suggest another fun game which I find probably more fulfilling - resuscitating? I've resuscitated about 8 caches (have 15 FTFs of which 14 were forgettable caches I happened to get to first)

The long multi (ammo box) - clues spread all over a small town. Not sure why so few people bother.

The short multi that's out on a limb and turned out to be under a stump which had other branches fallen on top of it - another ammo box

The crash barrier hide... in the middle of a dual carriageway (rarely-used footpath goes across at that point - major adrenaline rush)

The bison threaded onto the wire of a fence, under the ivy (Cmon it's called Ring Fenced!) a whole mile from the nearest road (!)

The fiendish puzzle

The "180 grid squares on the map" challenge cache that took loads of effort to qualify for and which someone else DNFd twice (it had rolled downhill...) - that was a STF

- and so on. Much more memorable than FTFs quite often, and easy enough to find on a gc.com search (sort results by Found)...

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