+Andycacher Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 In my area, there is a two-stage multi in a really nice park but the first stage has been missing for over two years. However, it is possible to find the second stage by reading the description, logs, and looking at some photos posted by past finders. This is how everyone has found the cache since 2013. The owner isn't particularly active since they haven't logged in since May of this year. It's been flagged NM ever since the stage went missing. Is this worthy of a NA log/some other action, or should it just remain the way it is? Quote Link to comment
jholly Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 I would log a NA. In you NA log list the points you mentioned in you post. Quote Link to comment
+Touchstone Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 I think the Log Entry from July kind of spells it out: I received a message from the CO saying he is no longer interested in maintaining his caches. Time for it to go. Pity the CO didn't get it Adopted out and properly cared for before leaving the game. Quote Link to comment
+J Grouchy Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Similar situation here, but with a couple important differences. There's a multi not far from my office and the first stage is confirmed missing by one of the most recent finders. I messaged the CO twice about it and he replied that he'd go out to replace it. This was weeks ago, with no indication that it was fixed. There's a NM log on it which, in my area, is often picked up by the reviewer who will disable caches with this sort of issue. This was not done because the CO either is or was a reviewer himself...so apparently he gets a pass on doing maintenance. This is the same CO who had a cache in a NPS area "temporarily disabled" for seven years...but again, got a pass because of his status. So in this case nothing I do will matter. Any further communication from me - including a NA log - will likely either go on being ignored or be seen as me pestering. In the meantime, nobody else will be able to find it because the first stage is missing. Quote Link to comment
+Andycacher Posted December 7, 2015 Author Share Posted December 7, 2015 Time for it to go. Pity the CO didn't get it Adopted out and properly cared for before leaving the game. Yeah, it's too bad. Thanks for the advice. Quote Link to comment
+hzoi Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Similar situation here, but with a couple important differences. There's a multi not far from my office and the first stage is confirmed missing by one of the most recent finders. I messaged the CO twice about it and he replied that he'd go out to replace it. This was weeks ago, with no indication that it was fixed. There's a NM log on it which, in my area, is often picked up by the reviewer who will disable caches with this sort of issue. This was not done because the CO either is or was a reviewer himself...so apparently he gets a pass on doing maintenance. This is the same CO who had a cache in a NPS area "temporarily disabled" for seven years...but again, got a pass because of his status. So in this case nothing I do will matter. Any further communication from me - including a NA log - will likely either go on being ignored or be seen as me pestering. In the meantime, nobody else will be able to find it because the first stage is missing. Didn't realize you and I hail from the same home town until this post. Interesting that the red cross attribute is not on the cache despite the NM log. Hope it gets fixed for you soon. Quote Link to comment
+J Grouchy Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Similar situation here, but with a couple important differences. There's a multi not far from my office and the first stage is confirmed missing by one of the most recent finders. I messaged the CO twice about it and he replied that he'd go out to replace it. This was weeks ago, with no indication that it was fixed. There's a NM log on it which, in my area, is often picked up by the reviewer who will disable caches with this sort of issue. This was not done because the CO either is or was a reviewer himself...so apparently he gets a pass on doing maintenance. This is the same CO who had a cache in a NPS area "temporarily disabled" for seven years...but again, got a pass because of his status. So in this case nothing I do will matter. Any further communication from me - including a NA log - will likely either go on being ignored or be seen as me pestering. In the meantime, nobody else will be able to find it because the first stage is missing. Didn't realize you and I hail from the same home town until this post. Interesting that the red cross attribute is not on the cache despite the NM log. Hope it gets fixed for you soon. Hmmm...you sure about that? Looks like you're in Texas...but I'm in Atlanta. The cache actually does have a red cross attribute on the cache page. Quote Link to comment
+dprovan Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 First of all, I'd have no problem with someone posting an NA. On the other hand, I'd only post an NA myself if I thought the cache was uninteresting, or those seeker invented steps to find the final were unreasonable, or if the final was decaying. Otherwise, I'd let the cache live on as long as it continue to work as a multicache even though it's not functioning as originally intended. Quote Link to comment
Cascade Reviewer Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Similar situation here, but with a couple important differences. There's a multi not far from my office and the first stage is confirmed missing by one of the most recent finders. I messaged the CO twice about it and he replied that he'd go out to replace it. This was weeks ago, with no indication that it was fixed. There's a NM log on it which, in my area, is often picked up by the reviewer who will disable caches with this sort of issue. This was not done because the CO either is or was a reviewer himself...so apparently he gets a pass on doing maintenance. This is the same CO who had a cache in a NPS area "temporarily disabled" for seven years...but again, got a pass because of his status. So in this case nothing I do will matter. Any further communication from me - including a NA log - will likely either go on being ignored or be seen as me pestering. In the meantime, nobody else will be able to find it because the first stage is missing. I certainly don't get any maintenance passes on my caches for being a reviewer. If you're really convinced that a cacher is getting special treatment because of their status, you should contact Groundspeak about it. Quote Link to comment
+AustinMN Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 First of all, I'd have no problem with someone posting an NA. On the other hand, I'd only post an NA myself if I thought the cache was uninteresting, or those seeker invented steps to find the final were unreasonable, or if the final was decaying. Otherwise, I'd let the cache live on as long as it continue to work as a multicache even though it's not functioning as originally intended. To me: not functioning as originally intended == not functioning Quote Link to comment
+J Grouchy Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 First of all, I'd have no problem with someone posting an NA. On the other hand, I'd only post an NA myself if I thought the cache was uninteresting, or those seeker invented steps to find the final were unreasonable, or if the final was decaying. Otherwise, I'd let the cache live on as long as it continue to work as a multicache even though it's not functioning as originally intended. To me: not functioning as originally intended == not functioning True. The very definition of a multi-cache is a cache with more than one stage. If one stage is missing - especially if it's only two stages to begin with - it is incomplete and the chain is very likely broken. Quote Link to comment
+dprovan Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 To me: not functioning as originally intended == not functioning You're welcome to see it that way. To me, working == functioning, and having a comparably difficult route to the final works for me. Quote Link to comment
+hzoi Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 Similar situation here, but with a couple important differences. There's a multi not far from my office and the first stage is confirmed missing by one of the most recent finders. I messaged the CO twice about it and he replied that he'd go out to replace it. This was weeks ago, with no indication that it was fixed. There's a NM log on it which, in my area, is often picked up by the reviewer who will disable caches with this sort of issue. This was not done because the CO either is or was a reviewer himself...so apparently he gets a pass on doing maintenance. This is the same CO who had a cache in a NPS area "temporarily disabled" for seven years...but again, got a pass because of his status. So in this case nothing I do will matter. Any further communication from me - including a NA log - will likely either go on being ignored or be seen as me pestering. In the meantime, nobody else will be able to find it because the first stage is missing. Didn't realize you and I hail from the same home town until this post. Interesting that the red cross attribute is not on the cache despite the NM log. Hope it gets fixed for you soon. Hmmm...you sure about that? Looks like you're in Texas...but I'm in Atlanta. The cache actually does have a red cross attribute on the cache page. I grew up around Tucker. El Paso is nice, but it ain't home. Quote Link to comment
+AustinMN Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 To me: not functioning as originally intended == not functioning You're welcome to see it that way. To me, working == functioning, and having a comparably difficult route to the final works for me. A work-around is never working. Quote Link to comment
Pup Patrol Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 (edited) In my area, there is a two-stage multi in a really nice park but the first stage has been missing for over two years. However, it is possible to find the second stage by reading the description, logs, and looking at some photos posted by past finders. This is how everyone has found the cache since 2013. The owner isn't particularly active since they haven't logged in since May of this year. It's been flagged NM ever since the stage went missing. Is this worthy of a NA log/some other action, or should it just remain the way it is? A "2 stage multi" where the first stage is missing is not a Multicache. There's nothing much more to say about it than that. If the NM flags have not been dealt with, either by the cache owner or the Reviewer, for "years", then it's time for a "Needs Archived" log. Posting a NA doesn't mean that the cache will be archived immediately. What it will do is bring the problem to the attention of the Reviewer. "NM" logs aren't sent to the Reviewer, but an NA is. The Reviewer will usually give the cache owner time to address the issue by disabling the cache. If the cache owner is not interested in properly maintaining his/her cache, perhaps it's time to archive the listing and free up the area for someone else to place a new cache. Maybe even a new, real multicache. B. Edited December 8, 2015 by Pup Patrol Quote Link to comment
Pup Patrol Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 (edited) Thought I would post a couple of links in the Help Center for the OP: 4.19. Removing the Needs Maintenance Icon http://support.Groundspeak.com/index.php?pg=kb.page&id=404 4.11. Throwdowns - How to handle them http://support.Groundspeak.com/index.php?pg=kb.page&id=427 4.9. New Maintenance Emails from Geocaching HQ http://support.Groundspeak.com/index.php?pg=kb.page&id=713 B. Edited December 8, 2015 by Pup Patrol Quote Link to comment
+CanadianRockies Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 A "2 stage multi" where the first stage is missing is not a Multicache. There's nothing much more to say about it than that. Agreed, although I will say a bit more. A multi where the final is missing isn't a multi-cache either, but I've seen a few of these where someone will throw a log sheet into the first-stage container and claim their find. Then others will sign that sheet and claim their finds. When our reviewer learns this is occurring, they will issue a NM and follow that with an archive. Quote Link to comment
Pup Patrol Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 A "2 stage multi" where the first stage is missing is not a Multicache. There's nothing much more to say about it than that. Agreed, although I will say a bit more. A multi where the final is missing isn't a multi-cache either, but I've seen a few of these where someone will throw a log sheet into the first-stage container and claim their find. Then others will sign that sheet and claim their finds. When our reviewer learns this is occurring, they will issue a NM and follow that with an archive. I've had people "find" our multicache...actually, they only found Stage 1. They crammed a sheet of paper and some swag into the film canister, thinking it was missing a log book. I guess they didn't see the tag with the Stage 2 coordinates, and that they had no idea what a "multicache", with hints for both stages, entailed. But that's not relevant to this topic. Stage 1 is missing = not a multicache until the cache owner completes the required maintenance. B. Quote Link to comment
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