Permission on a corporate owned property?

[+en Creshio]

Hey!

 

I'm looking for some help on what to do for permission. The property in question is corporate owned by a developer and has been "on sale"/abandoned for almost a decade now. The number on the "for sale" sign has been disconnected it's been so long. I have tried looking up a number on their website, but the number I called, the woman said she had no idea how to handle what I wanted and sent me to someone else. I called them and they are not answering. The cache I want to place would be around street signs and things of that nature. There are no buildings at the actual site, as they abandoned the original project before getting that far. What would be the best way to proceed?

[+K13]

What is so special about the street signage in the failed property development that makes you want to bring people to that location?

 

Without being able to obtain permission, the best way to proceed would be to find another location for your cache.

[+dprovan]

What is so special about the street signage in the failed property development that makes you want to bring people to that location?

I find abandoned developments fascinating, so I really appreciate caches that lead me to one.

[+noncentric]

What is so special about the street signage in the failed property development that makes you want to bring people to that location?

I find abandoned developments fascinating, so I really appreciate caches that lead me to one.

+1

Especially nice if the cache description includes photos of what used to be at that site and/or history about the development. I find it interesting to see past and present photos of a city block or neighborhood, to see how the area has changed over time.

[+en Creshio]

What is so special about the street signage in the failed property development that makes you want to bring people to that location?

I find abandoned developments fascinating, so I really appreciate caches that lead me to one.

+1

Especially nice if the cache description includes photos of what used to be at that site and/or history about the development. I find it interesting to see past and present photos of a city block or neighborhood, to see how the area has changed over time.

 

Thank you both for the support. I grew up around contractors and construction, so abandoned developments fascinate me too. What I had in mind is kind of a puzzle/multi cache hybrid. It's like a multi, but you have to solve riddles to get from box to box, rather than just input coords. I have read from prior forum topics, this would find it's final listing under the mystery cache, but I digress. I will try to contact the last name given again, but if a property is abandoned, does that mean there's nothing I can do?

[+Touchstone]

The County Parish should have records of who pays taxes on the parcels.

Edited December 5, 2015 by Touchstone

[+ecanderson]

Honesty -- if 1% of the 'parking lot' caches out there are even known to the property owners, much less approved by them, I'd be astounded.

 

Like you, I find some abandoned sites (even entire housing subdivisions with curbs and fire hydrants but no paved roads!) interesting. The financial stories behind many of them are a lesson to the speculator in all of us.

[+Touchstone]

Honesty -- if 1% of the 'parking lot' caches out there are even known to the property owners, much less approved by them, I'd be astounded.

 

I couldn't agree more, but wouldn't it be better to encourage people to at least do a bit of research regarding property boundaries, rather than continuing the status quo?

 

I appreciate that the OP bothered to come here and at least ask the question, rather than assuming.

[+ecanderson]

I appreciate the fact that the attempt is being made, too, but wanted to note specifically that the OP has put forth far more effort than is typically rendered for a cache of this type, and having hit a wall, has done the best possible to deal with the issue. I don't think there's much more that can be done. As a last ditch effort, an inquiry of the property records for the county (these are often even available online) may provide a better idea of the current owner's identity rather than dealing with the number on a sign, which may only belong to some property manager at another company.

[ZeMartelo]

Not every hole in the world needs to have a cache.

[+Sharks-N-Beans]

Just a thought on how I would handle it...If there is a street sign off another road, I would not feel I was trespassing to turn onto the signed road unless there was a barricade or signage to the contrary. Maybe a pic from the OP showing the level of development would help.

[+kunarion]

Just a thought on how I would handle it...If there is a street sign off another road, I would not feel I was trespassing to turn onto the signed road unless there was a barricade or signage to the contrary. Maybe a pic from the OP showing the level of development would help.

Are there caches in the area? The reviewer and other cachers might already know the deal.

 

That place would need to be monitored by the Cache Owner, permission or not. As it changes owners/developers, the site may change, yet may otherwise appear abandoned. Maybe the OP can keep tabs on construction progress somehow.

 

There's a cache I know at an "abandoned construction site", perhaps a housing development or office complex, and an old "No Trespassing" sign that you almost can't read anymore, at the entrance. You have to drive down the weird streets laid in that open field, to get to the coffee can at the back of the property. It's creepy, and I guess it would be cool. But I can't get away with that kind of thing. I'm a LEO magnet, and at any given iffy cache, I'm always get told to "get out of there". The cache page would have to be very clear that if anyone questions me, I can say "I'm Geocaching" and will be allowed to then go about my Geocaching. Otherwise, I can't stand those places.

Edited December 6, 2015 by kunarion

[+en Creshio]

Just a thought on how I would handle it...If there is a street sign off another road, I would not feel I was trespassing to turn onto the signed road unless there was a barricade or signage to the contrary. Maybe a pic from the OP showing the level of development would help.

I will try to upload a pic when I have a chance!

[+en Creshio]

Just a thought on how I would handle it...If there is a street sign off another road, I would not feel I was trespassing to turn onto the signed road unless there was a barricade or signage to the contrary. Maybe a pic from the OP showing the level of development would help.

Are there caches in the area? The reviewer and other cachers might already know the deal.

 

That place would need to be monitored by the Cache Owner, permission or not. As it changes owners/developers, the site may change, yet may otherwise appear abandoned. Maybe the OP can keep tabs on construction progress somehow.

 

There's a cache I know at an "abandoned construction site", perhaps a housing development or office complex, and an old "No Trespassing" sign that you almost can't read anymore, at the entrance. You have to drive down the weird streets laid in that open field, to get to the coffee can at the back of the property. It's creepy, and I guess it would be cool. But I can't get away with that kind of thing. I'm a LEO magnet, and at any given iffy cache, I'm always get told to "get out of there". The cache page would have to be very clear that if anyone questions me, I can say "I'm Geocaching" and will be allowed to then go about my Geocaching. Otherwise, I can't stand those places.

 

Thank you for the input Kunarion. I am sorry to hear about your magnetism with LEO, not fun for sure. There aren't any "No Trespassing" signs in the area. I also live in the residential complex across the street from the abandoned development. It was originally meant to be an extension of this one, but due to the housing crisis, the plan was abandoned. The town-home section of my own neighborhood was never even finished. There are only one or two buildings, when there is room for at least twelve. There is new development in the area, residential mostly, so it is a possibility that is may be bought and developed. But I can easily monitor the situation from home.

[+ecanderson]

Many developments that are abandoned are in areas where the streets are already laid (or mostly so) and are already public rights of way. You can tell a lot by the basic build-out of fire hydrants, phone company pedestals, streets (or even sidewalk/curbs) with storm drains, etc. If you see those, the rights of way and easements are already ceded to the various utilities and public safety agencies, and anything from sidewalk to sidewalk is fair game.

[+en Creshio]

Many developments that are abandoned are in areas where the streets are already laid (or mostly so) and are already public rights of way. You can tell a lot by the basic build-out of fire hydrants, phone company pedestals, streets (or even sidewalk/curbs) with storm drains, etc. If you see those, the rights of way and easements are already ceded to the various utilities and public safety agencies, and anything from sidewalk to sidewalk is fair game.

 

Thank you ecanderson, I did not know that! The complex definitely has all those things you listed, and the roads and/or near the sidewalks is where I planned to stay anyway, so that's perfect. Thanks again for the insight!

[+K13]

Wasn't there a similar thread a while back about a undeveloped housing development where all the caches were archived due to LEO or public issues? I think it was in Florida.

[+John in Valley Forge]

http://gis.hcpafl.org/propertysearch/#/nav/Advanced%20Search

 

Your profile suggests you are from Tampa.

This is the Hillsborough County property tax appraiser. You can search by address and find the owner.

[+en Creshio]

http://gis.hcpafl.or...vanced%20Search

 

Your profile suggests you are from Tampa.

This is the Hillsborough County property tax appraiser. You can search by address and find the owner.

 

Thank you John in Valley Forge. I have looked them up in the property taxes, but haven't gleaned any new information. The owner name just lists the corporate name of the developer, which I already knew. Unfortunately the only contact info provided is a mailing address in Miami, no number. I have reached out via their number provided thru their website, but no reply. According to ecanderson though, the locations I had in mind are more in the clear. Thank you for the link, I will definitely be using it in the future!

Edited December 8, 2015 by en Creshio

[+hzoi]

I think you've done your due diligence at this point. Only question at this point is if your local reviewer agrees; I recommend checking with them. I'd think that, so long as you stick to areas that are within the right of way, you should be safe.

[+bflentje]

Without being able to obtain permission, the best way to proceed would be to find another location for your cache.

 

This, a valid statement.

 

What is so special about the street signage in the failed property development that makes you want to bring people to that location?

 

This, not required.

[+Michaelcycle]

Wasn't there a similar thread a while back about a undeveloped housing development where all the caches were archived due to LEO or public issues? I think it was in Florida.

 

I had the same sense reading through this thread. I can't find the thread we are thinking of but I recall that there were a few houses in it and the residents took umbrage at the geocachers coming in (I think there were several caches placed)

 

Or am I mis-remembering all of this?

[+en Creshio]

Wasn't there a similar thread a while back about a undeveloped housing development where all the caches were archived due to LEO or public issues? I think it was in Florida.

 

I had the same sense reading through this thread. I can't find the thread we are thinking of but I recall that there were a few houses in it and the residents took umbrage at the geocachers coming in (I think there were several caches placed)

 

Or am I mis-remembering all of this?

 

I have not seen that thread, but there are absolutely NO houses in the development I'm looking at, so I don't forsee that being a problem.

[+K13]

Wasn't there a similar thread a while back about a undeveloped housing development where all the caches were archived due to LEO or public issues? I think it was in Florida.

 

I had the same sense reading through this thread. I can't find the thread we are thinking of but I recall that there were a few houses in it and the residents took umbrage at the geocachers coming in (I think there were several caches placed)

 

Or am I mis-remembering all of this?

 

I remember that the people complaining were not living in the 'undevelopment', but near by, across the street in another development or something like that. IIRC, the caches were archived due to lack of landowner permission.