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60CSx -> 64s .. really as bad an experience as the reviews make it sound?


wesi
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Today, I accidentally dropped my beloved 60CSx onto a solid floor. Kerplunk! After like four hours of tinkering, soldering, super-glueing and epoxying, I'm happy to say that I got it back to working order. But it sure isn't watertight anymore, so it's downhill from here. The 64s would be my obvious choice for a replacement, but reading the reviews, it sounds like the only people who like the 64 are the ones who never knew the 60. I can (grudgingly, by carrying spares) deal with battery life that sucks. What I can't have is unreliability, because I'm not just caching but also backpacking offtrail in remote areas. Any advice from owners who know both devices? Tnx!

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How old are the reviews you are reading? All my units have the newest software version. My 64st works great, I take it out far more than my 62sc, and would take it hiking instead of my Etrex 30 except I like the etrex size and lighter weight for hiking.I cant say one bad thing about my 64 except I have no use for the Bluetooth function. I never had a 60scx but did have its cousin the 76csx, that 60 is a dinosaur in so many ways. The Etex 30 will get 25 hrs battery life posted ,the newer 64 units are posted at 16 hrs, you can use battery saver mode, it turns off the screen and get good rechargeable batteries. I take my Etrex on week long hikes with one set of batteries. I'll take my 64st on day hikes, but prefer the smaller size and weight of the Etrex. Take a paper map, turn on your GPS now and then to get your position only if you need to. Get a good compass with a romer, use MGRS on your GPS and a good topo map and pay attention to where you are as you travel, On rare occasions I've used it in fog/cloud cover and in areas where we were route finding with no trail for some time but have never needed more than an extra set of batteries for backup. The 64 series comes with a yr subscription to Birdseye as well, though that may or may not be useful as where I live the photos were all taken with a fair amount of snow cover so ground detail is variable. If I could add a couple of features it would be an altitude alarm and a PLB function so I wouldn't need to take my ACR PLB with me. But all in all I think you would be quite happy with The 64s over your 60csx.

Edited by Forkeye
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I have a 64s upgraded from a 62s and a 60csx before.

The 62a was dropped in a lock on the river Thames last year. 5 meters down for 10 mins. Fished it out with a magnet as I had a steel karabiner on it.

Taken apart,dried and it worked. Have given it to my boat owning friend. Good excuse to upgrade !!

 

The 64s has much better screen resolution than the 60csx. I can use .uk ordnance survey maps on it.

Sadly the 64s died on me 14 months after purchase. Garmin sent me a new one FOC

 

whilst waiting in for the new 64s to arrive I got out the 60csx with OSM MAPS. didn't bother to use.it. A retrograde step!. Loading GPX files was a pain. As well as the poor screen resolution.

 

The accuracy of the 64s is superior as is the warm up time.

 

You won't regret the change

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Used to have a 60Cx, then a 62S, and after that a 64S. Each one has been an upgrade over the previous version, and the added benefit of GLONASS reception is great, especially if you are in the northern latitudes or under heavy cover. Another unit to consider is the new eTrex Touch series, which has the display resolution of the 64 series, but in a touch screen model. (Though it still some teething problems with firmware, but that's typical for Garmin.) The advantage of the 64 series, eTrex Touch series, Oregon series, Montana series, et al. is that they have faster processors than the regular eTrex models (10 / 20 & 20x / 30 & 30x). This means faster route calculations and much quicker map scrolling. Another perk of the GPSMAP 64 series is that nearly unlimited numbers of caches can be loaded, which is nice if you travel a lot. And battery life of the button models will be longer than the touch screen models, especially using rechargeable NiMH batteries such as Eneloops.

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Today, I accidentally dropped my beloved 60CSx onto a solid floor. Kerplunk! After like four hours of tinkering, soldering, super-glueing and epoxying, I'm happy to say that I got it back to working order.

 

What exactly broke? Seems like a fall from a few feet even on to a hard floor shouldn't take out a 60CSx. Those things are solid and built like a brick you-know-what.

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The faster processors are mostly 16 hr battery life I think, you will notice really fast panning of the map with them, with the older Etrex series the processor is obviously slower when panning the map but you get the extra battery life and I have never noticed the slowness of it while viewing the map traveling on foot, the Etrex are just the right size and weight for hiking on longer trips when you need to start counting grams/ lbs in my opinion. But yes this is about the 64 series, don't forget you can download Garmin Adventures on these newer units too. Way more map memory. Photo viewing. 3 axis compass.

Edited by Forkeye
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What exactly broke? Seems like a fall from a few feet even on to a hard floor shouldn't take out a 60CSx. Those things are solid and built like a brick you-know-what.

 

@everyone, thanks for the feedback and advice!

 

@sviking, there is a transparent plastic piece inside that serves as counter for the top two third of screws that hold the back cover. This piece broke into fragments that scattered inside the unit. The two halves must have shifted against each other as a result and must have also shifted the board inside, because the LCD display socket was broken off at one side and the LCD flex PCB connector didn't fit/stay put anymore. That's what I ended up soldering, which was a pain because that stuff is TINY. Obviously, with the top screws useless, it also didn't close properly anymore, a circumstance that I fixed with super glue and epoxy, but this makes future repairs unlikely. -> Hence the Q about the 64s.

 

But at least I got the 60CSx back into working order, so that I can say goodbye properly. After all we've been thru together, this seems only fitting :).

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The 62a was dropped in a lock on the river Thames last year. 5 meters down for 10 mins.

Little-known secret: When using a 60/62/64 near water, use lightweight lithium batteries. The difference in weight actually makes these units buoyant!

 

(Of course the weight of a steel carabiner may negate the battery weight advantage.)

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Wesi: I broke my 60CSx in a similar fashion to the way you broke yours, but not quite as bad. This was a few years ago when you could still send that model back to Garmin and get a refurb for $100, so that's what I did. Then I upgraded to an Oregon 600, didn't like it, and went to a 64s. I'm very happy with the 64s! Definitely a leaning curve as the operating interface is quite different, but it's a great caching unit and a nice upgrade over the 60CSx, which now lives in a drawer.

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Helpful feedback, thanks everyone!

 

Based on your comments, someone dear to me now suggests, thinly veiled, that Santa might potentially maybe eventually who knows probably leave a 64s in a stocking cache somewhere offtrail in the woods. I know that Santa is awfully unpredictable and unreliable when compared to Amazon, but I still hope that my repaired 60CSx survives long enough to find that cache :).

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I went from a 60CSx to a 64s. I found the transition to be very smooth as they are both quite similar. There are a few things I wish they would have rolled over from the 60, (deleting individual caches, the little pop up window asking to follow road or not). But overall quite happy.

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I went from a 60CSx to a 64s. I found the transition to be very smooth as they are both quite similar. There are a few things I wish they would have rolled over from the 60, (deleting individual caches, the little pop up window asking to follow road or not). But overall quite happy.

 

A 60 does not have "caches". It only has waypoints and you can delete those the same way on a 64. You can get the routing pop-up if you want.

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I could access caches on the 60 as geocaches and waypoints. Depending on how I loaded them from GSAK. But I used waypoints more as I could delete them individually. Geocaches could just be marked found (just like the 64) to get them off the list. Forgot about that.

How do you get that pop up on the 64s? Been trying to figure that out without luck.....

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Apologies for bumping this old thread, but I wanted to follow up in case this is helpful for some cacher who faces the same decision. Yes, I actually got a 64s for Christmas, and have been using it since. The transition from my beloved 60CSx was pretty smooth, most of the interface is sufficiently similar to ease you right in.

 

What I like best:

- finding caches didn't change much

- waypoints with reasonable names, no more 16 char limits

- full GC listings in the GPS, with all the information needed to find a multi or log an Earthcache. Since I'm usually "offline-caching", this is a big boon to me. No more print-outs or hand notes!

- massive storage space! I added a 32GB SD card. And I have been all over the place, east coast, west coast, europe, but never had to delete anything yet to make room for new waypoints or topo maps.

- the USB connector cover and battery compartment cover are way more sturdy in the 64S than they were in the 60CSx

 

What I dont like quite as much:

- takes a longer time to start up

- accuracy and lock-on time did not improve much. The addition of Glosnass seems to primarily add jitter, not reliability

- coordinate averaging didn't improve in accuracy. the interface makes a big show of it, but lies just as much as ever. as before, the best proof is to walk away 100yds and to come back.

- the 64s eats way more battery. and in cold weather, it displays the "battery low" warning about 10 seconds before the screen goes blank.

- switching between waypoint and geocache navigation plumb doesn't make sense to me. i don't get it why there are like 10 different "dashboards" for what basically all is: navigation.

- I haven't found a way yet to retrieve POIs with ExpertGPS. After a hike, I get the track, but not the GCs I marked as found, because the GCs (as exported from GSAK) are POIs. If you know how, please share!

 

Overall, I haven't used my resuscitated 60CSx much since I got the 64s, which - shortcomings aside - I guess is a sign that the new toy is at least equivalent.

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You don't have to export geocaches as POIs anymore. They work natively as a special kind of waypoint in a GPX (or GGZ) file.

You sound like Garmin (which isn't a good thing). I have an Oregon that is a glorified PDA at this point and still use the 60CSX much of it is because I want to, in one click, pull out my tracks with the caches I did (didn't do, etc), waypoints I created, etc.

 

I have them all saved and often refer to them when I am planning my next trip to that area to find parking, trails, access, etc. You can't really do that with the newer models unless you do it as a multi step process. Pull tracks/onsite created waypoints in one Mapsourse/Basecamp, put the gpx in a different instance of Mapsourse/Basecamp, edit the icons to finds/DNFs/etc (if you do that), copy them into the first instance.

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Battery life should be similar. Make sure you are using Ni-MH and have the battery settings correct.

 

Geocaches should never be installed as custom POIs. They should be installed as ..... geocaches ..... As a custom POI, you will lose all of the Geocache functionality.

 

It will boot faster if you use GGZ format and not GPX.

 

There is no way to make accuracy better.... GLONAS just gives more satellites, so can improve reception in certain poor conditions. Nothing anyone can do will improve live accuracy.

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You don't have to export geocaches as POIs anymore. They work natively as a special kind of waypoint in a GPX (or GGZ) file.

You sound like Garmin (which isn't a good thing). I have an Oregon that is a glorified PDA at this point and still use the 60CSX much of it is because I want to, in one click, pull out my tracks with the caches I did (didn't do, etc), waypoints I created, etc.

 

I have them all saved and often refer to them when I am planning my next trip to that area to find parking, trails, access, etc. You can't really do that with the newer models unless you do it as a multi step process. Pull tracks/onsite created waypoints in one Mapsourse/Basecamp, put the gpx in a different instance of Mapsourse/Basecamp, edit the icons to finds/DNFs/etc (if you do that), copy them into the first instance.

 

When I connect my 64s via USB while BaseCamp is running, it automatically updates all the caches in BaseCamp that were found. I don't have to do anything or click anything. Providing that I marked them as found on the device as I found them, of course. If you're importing/exporting as POI's that wouldn't work for you. The only things I transfer from the device back into BaseCamp are the waypoints I created on the device while in the field and the day's track file. I just use multi-select and drag and drop to do that. OK, four clicks total. When I want to return to a previous preserve, I just download the list file from BaseCamp again. It will contain all the updated caches, waypoints, routes and track files. I use 'File/Export List' and direct it to Device:\Garmin\GPX and overwrite the previous GPX file. Everything is there in one single GPX file. That's pretty much a single click step.

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When I connect my 64s via USB while BaseCamp is running, it automatically updates all the caches in BaseCamp that were found. I don't have to do anything or click anything. Providing that I marked them as found on the device as I found them, of course. If you're importing/exporting as POI's that wouldn't work for you. The only things I transfer from the device back into BaseCamp are the waypoints I created on the device while in the field and the day's track file. I just use multi-select and drag and drop to do that. OK, four clicks total. When I want to return to a previous preserve, I just download the list file from BaseCamp again. It will contain all the updated caches, waypoints, routes and track files. I use 'File/Export List' and direct it to Device:\Garmin\GPX and overwrite the previous GPX file. Everything is there in one single GPX file. That's pretty much a single click step.

I'll have to try again. After the Oregon not being able to do what I need, I stopped using it. I almost 10 years later, I couldn't be happier with the 60CS/CSxs I've had and will keep buying them until I can't find them anymore.

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The 64s and 64st have a nasty habit of not going into Mass Mode. This means that you cannot send .gpx files to internal memory. So, you have to learn how to hold the up arrow key while turning it on to get it back to mass mode, then erasing any .gpx files on internal memory. I am sure there are folks out there with a lot more knowledge of the inner workings of the gps, but here are a couple of pragmatic things I have found:

1. Send your .gpx files to the memory SD card, not to the GPS.

2. Do not send more caches than the gps than it is capable of handling. I have found that >5,000 caches the GPS loads slowly and may stop before loading all the caches.

3. Do close out the gps properly on your PC,instead of simply jerking the cable out.

Not sure why no one else mentioned these issues, but if you plan to be out somewhere and rely on the GPS it will exhibit this mass mode problem and the most inopportune time. Someone gave you good advice to carry a map or a spare GPS. Best Regards, Peoria Bill :>)

Edited by Peoria Bill
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The 64s and 64st have a nasty habit of not going into Mass Mode. This means that you cannot send .gpx files to internal memory. So, you have to learn how to hold the up arrow key while turning it on to get it back to mass mode, then erasing any .gpx files on internal memory. I am sure there are folks out there with a lot more knowledge of the inner workings of the gps, but here are a couple of pragmatic things I have found:

1. Send your .gpx files to the memory SD card, not to the GPS.

2. Do not send more caches than the gps than it is capable of handling. I have found that >5,000 caches the GPS loads slowly and may stop before loading all the caches.

3. Do close out the gps properly on your PC,instead of simply jerking the cable out.

Not sure why no one else mentioned these issues, but if you plan to be out somewhere and rely on the GPS it will exhibit this mass mode problem and the most inopportune time. Someone gave you good advice to carry a map or a spare GPS. Best Regards, Peoria Bill :>)

 

I agree although I've never done #1.....I use the City Nav map on the SD card.

#2 and #3 do the job for me although a corrupt/weird named cache page will still cause problems when trying to load.

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The 64s and 64st have a nasty habit of not going into Mass Mode. This means that you cannot send .gpx files to internal memory. So, you have to learn how to hold the up arrow key while turning it on to get it back to mass mode, then erasing any .gpx files on internal memory. I am sure there are folks out there with a lot more knowledge of the inner workings of the gps, but here are a couple of pragmatic things I have found:

1. Send your .gpx files to the memory SD card, not to the GPS.

2. Do not send more caches than the gps than it is capable of handling. I have found that >5,000 caches the GPS loads slowly and may stop before loading all the caches.

3. Do close out the gps properly on your PC,instead of simply jerking the cable out.

Not sure why no one else mentioned these issues, but if you plan to be out somewhere and rely on the GPS it will exhibit this mass mode problem and the most inopportune time. Someone gave you good advice to carry a map or a spare GPS. Best Regards, Peoria Bill :>)

Sorry,

but the moment I plug my 64s into the USB-Port I can access both, the internal Memory and the SD-Card. I can send files to both of them - no key to press...

 

1) I couldn't see a reason for that other than the larger space on the sd-card?

2) If you use the compressed file you can add more than 5k of caches without noticing any delay. DON'T use single GPX-Files.

3) Why? Never did, never had any trouble.

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The 64s and 64st have a nasty habit of not going into Mass Mode. This means that you cannot send .gpx files to internal memory. So, you have to learn how to hold the up arrow key while turning it on to get it back to mass mode, then erasing any .gpx files on internal memory. I am sure there are folks out there with a lot more knowledge of the inner workings of the gps, but here are a couple of pragmatic things I have found:

1. Send your .gpx files to the memory SD card, not to the GPS.

2. Do not send more caches than the gps than it is capable of handling. I have found that >5,000 caches the GPS loads slowly and may stop before loading all the caches.

3. Do close out the gps properly on your PC,instead of simply jerking the cable out.

Not sure why no one else mentioned these issues, but if you plan to be out somewhere and rely on the GPS it will exhibit this mass mode problem and the most inopportune time. Someone gave you good advice to carry a map or a spare GPS. Best Regards, Peoria Bill :>)

Sorry,

but the moment I plug my 64s into the USB-Port I can access both, the internal Memory and the SD-Card. I can send files to both of them - no key to press...

 

1) I couldn't see a reason for that other than the larger space on the sd-card?

2) If you use the compressed file you can add more than 5k of caches without noticing any delay. DON'T use single GPX-Files.

3) Why? Never did, never had any trouble.

^^^I agree with this. As a new 64st owner I have had really none of these issues. I did remove the 250,000 preloaded caches just because i really don't need them but I have loaded several pocket queries to the 64 with little to no delay on start up. If you want delay's get a PN-40 LOL. I have sent both to the SD card and internal memory with no issues at all. The biggest thing I would say is don't make the mistake like I did and buy the ST because the topos are not that great and since I am new to garmin handhelds, had Nuvi's for years, I did not realize how many maps and how easy they are to get/ load so really your paying for 4 gig memory that's all.. I have just did the latest firmware update and have eliminated pages and stuff I do not need to make it a streamlined GPSr that I am slowly falling in love with. With the GPSfiledepot and Gmap OSM routables I feel I have a unit that should last for some time and does everything I need it to do. Wish it had a bigger screen but I am not big touchscreen fan so it is what it is.

Edited by Team_Searchgeo
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The 64s and 64st have a nasty habit of not going into Mass Mode. ....

 

Sorry to see someone else have consistent troubles. Sounds like something is defective there somewhere; computer, cable or GPS. I've never once had an issue going into mass storage mode. Even my phone can see both the internal memory and the SD card when I connect them. Out of habit from owning earlier units, I don't load mine up with many thousands of caches, but I"ve not seen any significant difference in bootup time between just couple hundred or a few thousand. In fact, the much faster boot and response time of the 64s was most of the reason I bought it. I took my SD card that had lots of maps, tracks and caches on it to the store, plugged it into the 64s and after seeing how much faster it responded, especially panning the map around, bought it right then. :D

 

By any chance have you connected your 64 to another computer or used another cable? That might help narrow down where the issue is.

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You want to make sure you are using a genuine Garmin cable. I'm being serious.

 

That's not really as necessary as Garmin claims it is. You want to make sure your USB cable supplies data in addition to power, and is of sufficient power/speed. IE, don't use a really old cable.

 

However, it's likely that for those of you experiencing mass storage connectivity issues, you might have a dirty USB port that occasionally drops the connection with the computer.

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I'm not saying this because of any Garmin claims. I'm basing it on 20 years of Garmin ownership. I've found endless connection problems with non-Garmin cords and many different models of Garmin units.

 

I have and had so many Gamin Devices and I never used a garmin cord. At the Moment I use

GPSmap 60csx

GPSmap 64s

Edge 800

Edge 810

with regular cable. And I wouldn't use Garmin if I couldn't use "regular" USB-Cables.

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Oh good lord. You are missing THE POINT... WHEN someone has a connection problem such as the person above, 9 out of 10 times is will be solved by changing to a genuine cable. I will guarantee this. If you have not had this problem before, you really have no direct knowledge of the problem.

Edited by Red90
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Oh good lord. You are missing THE POINT... WHEN someone has a connection problem such as the person above, 9 out of 10 times is will be solved by changing to a genuine cable. I will guarantee this. If you have not had this problem before, you really have no direct knowledge of the problem.

Of course. Nobody knows but you. *facepalm*

 

If I have any connection issues (had some with my first gpsmap60csx, I will contact Garmin, because - and this is very simple to understand - if a USB-Device is NOT working with any proper USB-Cable, it is simply broken.

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No need to use an "original" cable but you'll have to use one that has tick enough wires. The thinner cables have a tendency to cause voltage drops. I've used just any USB cable with my older Colorado 300 and the only times I had problems (unit shuts down) was when using a thin cable.

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Of course. Nobody knows but you. *facepalm*

 

If I have any connection issues (had some with my first gpsmap60csx, I will contact Garmin, because - and this is very simple to understand - if a USB-Device is NOT working with any proper USB-Cable, it is simply broken.

 

It is a well known issue by many experienced users. Argue all you want, it just happens to be a fact. A strange, but true fact.

 

Yes, phone Garmin when your out of warranty device does not work.. Great plan.

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Of course. Nobody knows but you. *facepalm*

 

If I have any connection issues (had some with my first gpsmap60csx, I will contact Garmin, because - and this is very simple to understand - if a USB-Device is NOT working with any proper USB-Cable, it is simply broken.

 

It is a well known issue by many experienced users. Argue all you want, it just happens to be a fact. A strange, but true fact.

 

Yes, phone Garmin when your out of warranty device does not work.. Great plan.

 

Well:

The problem occurs when you are out of warranty? So it did work and then stopped working? And you still want to tell us that this is "normal", we have to accept it and we have to buy gamin-cables? Well done ;-)

 

About customer-service:

 

I once called garmin because my gpsmap did not connect via USB anymore. It was bought in the US, I live in Germany, so there is no warranty here. I expected them to tell me to send it to garmin u.s. - the didn't. They just replaced it.

 

I also had to call them once because one of my edges stopped working. Long after the warranty. They made me a very good offer either for repair or getting a new one.

 

So yes. Phone Garmin when your device is broken.

 

And when the USB is not working with regular USB-Cables, it is broken.

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