Winter Cache

[+paticpatic]

What does the attribute of Winter mean. I think it could be interrupted differently depending where you live? Does it mean the cache is not on the ground and might get covered in snow and can't be found? What does everybody think as we approach Winter and I want to make sure I set the correct attribute for Winter? Thanks for the replies.

[+K13]

My local reviewer disallowed the use of that attribute on a friend's listing a little while ago. Reviewer said that attribute was intended for caches that were available in winter, in spite of the local weather conditions which might otherwise make the cache inaccessible, and really didn't apply to caches placed in East Texas. I suppose it depends on where you are, as to what that attribute is intended to denote, as pretty much every cache in Texas is available in winter.

[+Windstorm+]

I would expect to see the Available During Winter attribute mostly on caches in mountains that get a lot of snow. If most of the nearby caches are buried and inaccessible during winter, the attribute would be helpful to identify caches that you can still go find.

[+niraD]

My local reviewer disallowed the use of that attribute on a friend's listing a little while ago. Reviewer said that attribute was intended for caches that were available in winter, in spite of the local weather conditions which might otherwise make the cache inaccessible, and really didn't apply to caches placed in East Texas.

Huh... I wonder if the reviewers are going to start disallowing the Snowmobiles Not Allowed attribute for geocaches in the San Francisco Bay Area. Technically, it's accurate, since the local land managers wouldn't want you tearing up the parks with a snowmobile. But since it never snows here...

 

Re: Available During Winter attribute

 

Many attributes have rather vague descriptions, rather than strict definitions, and the Available During Winter attribute falls into this category. It isn't really an issue around here, but from what I've been able to gather, in areas where winter availability is an issue, some use the attribute to mean that the location is open to the public during winter, and others use the attribute to mean that winter snow/ice does not cover the cache.

 

If I were to use the Available During Winter attribute (or the inverse Not Available During Winter attribute), then I would explain in the cache description what I meant.

[+Viajero Perdido]

Up here in the snow belt, it generally means a hide that's unlikely to be buried by snow, and therefore requiring a superhuman effort compared to summer conditions.

 

Ground hide: no

In a crevice under some roots: maybe

Hanging from a branch: yes

 

In my town, we have a long history of holding events - in winter - that involve the placement of winter-friendly hides. You want to see ammo cans hanging in spruce trees, come up here.

[+Liga9]

I live in Wisconsin and for the most part if my friends and I see "Winter Accessible" it means it's not on the ground. It's actually an attribute we look for if we are having a difficult time finding a cache. Check if it's winter accessible. If it is, we won't look much on the ground.

[+ChileHead]

I've seen it mean one of two things:

 

- a couple feet of snow won't be a problem when looking for the cache

- the area is accessible during winter, meaning the roads aren't closed

 

Best to always read the cache description just to be sure.

[+WarNinjas]

I think I have used that on a bunch of our hides. It doesn't snow here so it is actually "Available During Winter" We often look threw the attributes when making the page and check what applies. Picnic tables nearby, Dogs allowed, Available 24 hours, If it is available during winter then it is Available during winter?

Now that I think about it I can see the question but it doesn't change the fact that it is "Available During Winter"

[+BCandMsKitty]

We get quite a lot of snow from time to time, and most cachers in this area use the attribute to say that it is off the ground and will be "available" in winter. Some, however, use it to mean simply that you can access the area the cache is in in the winter, and let you take your chances on finding it, depending on how much snow there is. So, there's no guarantee that that attribute will mean it's off the ground. We usually study past logs to get a feel of which it means on any particular cache.

After a while you get to know which cachers hide off the ground, and which use a UPS, or something, to hide.

[+Blue_Ranger]

Around me, Buffalo NY area, you usually only see the "Not Winter Accessible" attribute-- trails close for the season, or would be treacherous going if there was any snow, or located on the ground. There's some in Letchworth State Park that are actually disabled every winter to make sure no one goes after them. Those are accessed by trails along the edge of the gorge and any snow on the trail would make the hike terribly dangerous. Even those located on the ground usually don't have the attribute, just a note in the description that snow might bury it.

[+L0ne.R]

Some, however, use it to mean simply that you can access the area the cache is in in the winter...

 

This always strikes me as strange. If the area is available in winter but the cache is not accessible what's the point of geocaching there?

 

For example, the conservation area is open in the winter but the cache, under a boardwalk, is locked in ice. Does the owner expect the finder to bring a pick axe and smash it out? If it's under a foot of snow does the CO expect us to bring a shovel and shovel out a 30 meter circle of snow?

 

In the winter I set a PQ for caches with the icon and filter out the . I have been sorely tempted at times to smash an ice encased box out, when the CO has an 'Available in Winter' icon, especially when many people have mentioned that the box is encased in ice and the listing still has the icon .

[+AustinMN]

My opinion is that if you have any doubt about what "Available in Winter" means, you don't really have winter.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

Around me, Buffalo NY area, you usually only see the "Not Winter Accessible" attribute-- trails close for the season, or would be treacherous going if there was any snow, or located on the ground. There's some in Letchworth State Park that are actually disabled every winter to make sure no one goes after them. Those are accessed by trails along the edge of the gorge and any snow on the trail would make the hike terribly dangerous. Even those located on the ground usually don't have the attribute, just a note in the description that snow might bury it.

 

I"m about 3 hours east of you and see similar scenarios. There are a few state parks and other areas here with trails that are closed during the winter and technically one can be charged for trespassing during the closure period if you ignore the signs. I also have a couple of caches that, if you could get to GZ, would be findable during winter but they're accessible via seasonal roads which have signs which read "Not Maintained in Winter". One could probably get to the trailhead for these caches with a snow mobile (or a long walk) but even with a 4WD/AWD vehicle the roads would be pretty treacherous in winter. I know of a paddle cache that was disabled during winter to discourage others to go after it and I totally support that. I used to be very active on a kayak/canoeing mailing list and every spring, like clockwork, there would be posts about incidents involving someone going out in a kayak or canoe in the spring as soon as the weather started to warm, but when the water temperature was still very cold. Hypothermia is not something to mess around with and a lot of casual paddlers don't even realize the risk involved getting on the water in this area in the early spring.

 

 

[+BCandMsKitty]

Some, however, use it to mean simply that you can access the area the cache is in in the winter...

 

This always strikes me as strange. If the area is available in winter but the cache is not accessible what's the point of geocaching there?

 

For example, the conservation area is open in the winter but the cache, under a boardwalk, is locked in ice. Does the owner expect the finder to bring a pick axe and smash it out? If it's under a foot of snow does the CO expect us to bring a shovel and shovel out a 30 meter circle of snow?

In the winter I set a PQ for caches with the icon and filter out the . I have been sorely tempted at times to smash an ice encased box out, when the CO has an 'Available in Winter' icon, especially when many people have mentioned that the box is encased in ice and the listing still has the icon .

 

Yep!

Or dig it out with your hands!

Those are ones I hope the coords are right on!

Edited October 27, 2015 by BC & MsKitty

[+narcissa]

Typically, around here, it means that the cache is placed high enough off the ground that it won't be under the snow in winter. So anything hanging at head-level in a tree is "winter friendly."

[+ConsHaltonCache]

Glad someone asked, good to read.

 

I had originally thought it meant that a cache could be easily RETRIEVED in the winter...

...but recently was told it meant the area/park/trail was open to the public in the winter....not necessarily related to ease of winter retrieving of container. So I was almost considering changing all mine to have the attribute (as all our parks are OPEN to the public in the winter...though most of the caches will be buried in the snow) but this discussion makes me think not (again). So in reality only one of ours can be considered "winter" suitable (based on the majority here. It's inside a viewing blind that will keep off the snow).

 

Wish they had more clear definition so everyone was on the same page!

 

Or maybe have two icons: one for "area open to public in winter" (snowshoes icon?) and one for "cache likely retrievable in winter/snow conditions"? (snowflake icon?)

[+AustinMN]

Has anybody noticed that there is a different icon for seasonal access? That is what should be used when a park is closed in winter.

 

Hello? Anybody home?

[+NYPaddleCacher]

Has anybody noticed that there is a different icon for seasonal access? That is what should be used when a park is closed in winter.

 

Hello? Anybody home?

 

I hadn't noticed it. It seems to me that Not available in Winter icon would affect the difficulty of finding the cache (without changing the D rating) while that seasonal access icon would indicate a temporary increase in the Terrain rating.

 

 

 

[+bflentje]

Has anybody noticed that there is a different icon for seasonal access? That is what should be used when a park is closed in winter.

 

Hello? Anybody home?

 

I hadn't noticed it. It seems to me that Not available in Winter icon would affect the difficulty of finding the cache (without changing the D rating) while that seasonal access icon would indicate a temporary increase in the Terrain rating.

 

The Seasonal attribute has been there for quite a while. And now those of us that use the Winter Friendly attribute to denote the "not on the ground" idea have more support to prove our point of view.

[+ConsHaltonCache]

There is "Available during winter" icon and there is a "Seasonal Access" icon. To me "Seasonal Access" means the area will be closed during one season (which season should be detailed in the cache page). To me that does not mean the area is open in the winter...its only about the area NOT being open at some time...not necessarily winter specifically. For example I would use it on a cache that is an area frequented by hunters I may use the "Seasonal Access" icon because the area would be prity much off limits during hunting season, but that same site would be fine to access in the winter. I'm certainly not going to use the "Seasonal Access" Icon to indicate an area is OPEN in the winter. All I was saying is that there is no icon to indicate the area is for sure open in the winter and suggesting is that maybe such an icon is needed if people are wanting to know such information (as that seems to be what the confusion is about: is the area open in the winter). (Personally I would not use the crossed our "Seasonal Access" icon to indicate it is open in the winter as that may just confuse people...)

 

Because this thread was opened there clearly is some confusion on the "Available during winter" icon.

 

Discussion I'm seeing so far seems to lean towards this "Available during winter" icon meaning the cache is likely to be retrievable during winter conditions (and not have to do with the area being open to the public during the winter or not).

 

If an area was closed during the winter then yes, I would use the "Seasonal Access" icon and indicate such in the cache page.

Edited October 29, 2015 by ConsHaltonCache

[+AustinMN]

There is "Available during winter" icon and there is a "Seasonal Access" icon. To me "Seasonal Access" means the area will be closed during one season (which season should be detailed in the cache page). To me that does not mean the area is open in the winter...its only about the area NOT being open at some time...not necessarily winter specifically. For example I would use it on a cache that is an area frequented by hunters I may use the "Seasonal Access" icon because the area would be prity much off limits during hunting season, but that same site would be fine to access in the winter. I'm certainly not going to use the "Seasonal Access" Icon to indicate an area is OPEN in the winter. All I was saying is that there is no icon to indicate the area is for sure open in the winter and suggesting is that maybe such an icon is needed if people are wanting to know such information (as that seems to be what the confusion is about: is the area open in the winter). (Personally I would not use the crossed our "Seasonal Access" icon to indicate it is open in the winter as that may just confuse people...)

 

Because this thread was opened there clearly is some confusion on the "Available during winter" icon.

 

Discussion I'm seeing so far seems to lean towards this "Available during winter" icon meaning the cache is likely to be retrievable during winter conditions (and not have to do with the area being open to the public during the winter or not).

 

If an area was closed during the winter then yes, I would use the "Seasonal Access" icon and indicate such in the cache page.

 

I can't imagine why anyone woulod assume the area was not open year round unless stated otherwise. Even here in Minnesota where lots of things close for the winter, that is the assumption - it is open unless stated otherwise. Why someone would need to be told that is beyond me. The lack of a "sasonal access" attribute automatically says "open in winter...and spring, and summer, and hunting season."

 

Using seasonal access to indicate hunting season also does not make a lot of sense in light of the fact that there is a "hunting allowed" attribute.

 

Suggesting that an area is closed due to hunting would almost completely shut off caching for the entire hunting season in some places. That is a decision that should be made by the individual(s) seeking the cache.

[+L0ne.R]

There is "Available during winter" icon and there is a "Seasonal Access" icon. To me "Seasonal Access" means the area will be closed during one season (which season should be detailed in the cache page). To me that does not mean the area is open in the winter...its only about the area NOT being open at some time...not necessarily winter specifically. For example I would use it on a cache that is an area frequented by hunters I may use the "Seasonal Access" icon because the area would be prity much off limits during hunting season, but that same site would be fine to access in the winter. I'm certainly not going to use the "Seasonal Access" Icon to indicate an area is OPEN in the winter. All I was saying is that there is no icon to indicate the area is for sure open in the winter and suggesting is that maybe such an icon is needed if people are wanting to know such information (as that seems to be what the confusion is about: is the area open in the winter). (Personally I would not use the crossed our "Seasonal Access" icon to indicate it is open in the winter as that may just confuse people...)

 

Because this thread was opened there clearly is some confusion on the "Available during winter" icon.

 

Discussion I'm seeing so far seems to lean towards this "Available during winter" icon meaning the cache is likely to be retrievable during winter conditions (and not have to do with the area being open to the public during the winter or not).

 

If an area was closed during the winter then yes, I would use the "Seasonal Access" icon and indicate such in the cache page.

 

I can't imagine why anyone would assume the area was not open year round unless stated otherwise. Even here in Minnesota where lots of things close for the winter, that is the assumption - it is open unless stated otherwise. Why someone would need to be told that is beyond me. The lack of a "seasonal access" attribute automatically says "open in winter...and spring, and summer, and hunting season."

 

Using seasonal access to indicate hunting season also does not make a lot of sense in light of the fact that there is a "hunting allowed" attribute.

 

Suggesting that an area is closed due to hunting would almost completely shut off caching for the entire hunting season in some places. That is a decision that should be made by the individual(s) seeking the cache.

 

Good points.

 

I also think people should consider why someone would set a PQ for caches with the Available in Winter icon. I doubt that anyone is thinking they would like to visit that park to go geocaching, but finding/accessing the cache doesn't matter. When I set my Winter Friendly PQ it's so I can expect a reasonable chance that I'll be able to go to and retrieve the cache when there's 2 feet of snow on the ground (December through April in my area).

 

Since 'available in winter' is so open to interpretation (this topic comes up every year about this time), it sure would help if Groundspeak provided attribute information that clearly stated what "available in winter" means. Or change the icon title text to 'Snow and ice friendly'.

[+AustinMN]

Since 'available in winter' is so open to interpretation (this topic comes up every year about this time), it sure would help if Groundspeak provided attribute information that clearly stated what "available in winter" means. Or change the icon title text to 'Snow and ice friendly'.

 

My understanding of human nature would lead me to believe "snow and ice friendly" would have it's own set of weird interpretations, such as "the container is resistant to damage by snow and ice", "it's safe to walk here when there is snow and ice on the ground", "this cache may be easier to find in the winter" etc.

[+ConsHaltonCache]

What about "Retrievable in winter"?

(not that they are going to change it, but something with 'retrievable', or anything along that line, would be my choice to help clarify)

[+baloo&bd]

Has anybody noticed that there is a different icon for seasonal access? That is what should be used when a park is closed in winter.

 

Hello? Anybody home?

 

That or if, like around here, the area is closed all but winter.