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One Less Webcam - My Rant...


Rogue23
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It's sad to see a WORKING webcam go. I wish all the ones that don't work and people log with selfies would be archived.

+1

The only working webcam we bumped into on travels we logged.

Those no longer working (by logs) we passed on, not even stopping to look.

I don't mind being the "spoil sport" and hitting an NA, but I'd wanna be there first to see firsthand.

Doesn't seem too many have that desire to do the right correct thing.

- That icon/stat thing gets in the way...

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It's sad to see a WORKING webcam go. I wish all the ones that don't work and people log with selfies would be archived.

+1

The only working webcam we bumped into on travels we logged.

Those no longer working (by logs) we passed on, not even stopping to look.

I don't mind being the "spoil sport" and hitting an NA, but I'd wanna be there first to see firsthand.

Doesn't seem too many have that desire to do the right correct thing.

- That icon/stat thing gets in the way...

 

I know the feeling--I won't log a webcam NA without going, but they're usually out of the way, and I'm not going way out of my way just to log an NA.

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If any of you are controlling cache owners, you arent welcome here. You are no fun. You are taking the game way too serious. I go geocaching to relax and have fun and get away from my busy life. When I find out someone deleted my found it log because I made a very tiny mistake of not reading the cache page right or the CO wasnt very clear of how to find his/her caches, it makes me want to quit. Do GS want people to quit over deleted logs? I dont think so.

This argument seems a bit one-sided to me. If the point of geocaching is to have fun and to get outside, then why be upset if a 'Found It' log is deleted? The CO's placed and maintained (usually) the caches for you to find. If a cache seeker can't bother to abide by the cache description, which the CO also spent time creating, then what's so egregious about the CO deleting the cache seeker's log? There are certainly cases where some CO's might be over-the-top in their requirements, like if an EC owner deletes a log because a cacher estimates a distance of 200ft instead of 250ft - but if the CO requests the year from a plaque be emailed to them (Virtuals) or that a webcam be pointing in a specific direction, then I'm not sure I'd call that 'controlling'. Those are not over-the-top requests.

 

+1

 

Swineflew is being one sided. He stated "You are taking the game way too serious", but from his reply, seems he is the one who is taking this too seriously and is upset.

 

Sure, there are a few control freaks out there who get ridiculous with their thinking. But caches, like the one mentioned in this thread, were not placed with this in mind. These were placed in an effort to offer something a bit different than your every day cache. The CO's webcam was set up to give finders both, a fun little challenge and a unique experience. It's a bit different and i have no doubt, was more enjoyable for those who completed it following the CO's easy requirement.

 

Sure seems the control freaks these days, are the ones that want every cache to be placed in the manner they think they should be. For the majority, easy and quick for smiley count. Unfortunately, this has taken a toll on creative and challenging caches. ;)

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Yes, seeing the sunrise on the beach in Florida is super, duper challenging and unique. Half the folks who did it found crappy, overcast weather. There are sunrises all along the coast of Florida every day. I took awesome sunrise pics at a virtual cache on New Smyrna Beach a couple of years ago. Is the hyperbole of creativity etc. really needed in this particular case? It's not really a unique place or view.

 

When you had to have somebody on computer somewhere, I'd say this WAS a challenge, in the smart phone era, it's a pretty easy webcam. You can see the sunrise doing a thousand different caches along the coast of Florida.

 

The rules changed in 2009. If the CO doesn't like the new rules, archiving is the right choice for that person. Someday all the webcam caches will be gone. That's life--everything moves on to new things.

Edited by Dame Deco
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Sounds like a fun Webcam without the requirement.

 

It was a fun webcam. I did do sunrise for it, even though I knew that the CO would be unable to enforce the ALR if I had logged it at noon. I have seen caches with "walls of fame" or something on them, where people that complete the fun optional ALR are listed.

 

Why not make the sunrise thing optional, and create a "Early Bird Honor Roll" (or whatever you want to call it) to honor those that decided to do sunrise?

 

A good solution. And perhaps a separate list for those taking sunset photos (a fun twist for "night owls," & a move away from the "tyranny of the morning people" bias in society).

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Interesting. I was just reading the rules for hiding a cache, which included a section on logging caches. If you scroll down to Logging Requirements, it sure sounds like the ALR rule only applies to physical caches. Non-physical caches are listed separately with no mention of banning ALRs, so my takeaway was that ALRs were ok for non-physical caches. Room for doubt as written, anyway. https://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx

 

Sorry this caused bad feelings for the owner and the cachers.

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Interesting. I was just reading the rules for hiding a cache, which included a section on logging caches. If you scroll down to Logging Requirements, it sure sounds like the ALR rule only applies to physical caches. Non-physical caches are listed separately with no mention of banning ALRs, so my takeaway was that ALRs were ok for non-physical caches. Room for doubt as written, anyway. https://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx

 

Sorry this caused bad feelings for the owner and the cachers.

 

It looks like you are in fact correct. Of course the CO would have to go back and delete all the logs of people who didn't post a webcam picture. Did GS get this one wrong?

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Interesting. I was just reading the rules for hiding a cache, which included a section on logging caches. If you scroll down to Logging Requirements, it sure sounds like the ALR rule only applies to physical caches. Non-physical caches are listed separately with no mention of banning ALRs, so my takeaway was that ALRs were ok for non-physical caches. Room for doubt as written, anyway. https://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx

 

Sorry this caused bad feelings for the owner and the cachers.

 

It looks like you are in fact correct. Of course the CO would have to go back and delete all the logs of people who didn't post a webcam picture. Did GS get this one wrong?

 

Hmmmm. Where does it say that a finder must comply with owners requirements (ALRs) other than to show a picture taken by the webcam? Seems the other virtuals must comply with ALRs but not webcams.

 

"Webcam Cache Logging Guidelines

 

A webcam cache can only be logged with a photograph taken from the webcam associated with the cache page."

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Hmmmm. Where does it say that a finder must comply with owners requirements (ALRs) other than to show a picture taken by the webcam? Seems the other virtuals must comply with ALRs but not webcams.

 

"Webcam Cache Logging Guidelines

 

A webcam cache can only be logged with a photograph taken from the webcam associated with the cache page."

 

I guess I missed your point. That is the minimal requirement. And, as far as I know, always has been.

It is true that GS has eliminated ALRs, such as the OPs. That does not change the fact that webcam photos have always been required. You're putting the carriage before the horse.

You do not know the grief I go through. "My cellphone doesn't work here, so I'm posting a selfie." "Delete." "But selfies are permitted at all the other webcams I've done." "Does not meet the requirements."

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Well, retroactively applying "current rules" to an old cache without grandfathering it is dumb. I realize that's just my opinion and doesn't count for anything in this world, and that's ok too.

 

For anyone who thinks I shouldn't archive the cache, I don't feel like I have a choice. My hands are tied. To me, it's the same as if I had a 50 foot tree climb and GC came up with a rule that said all tree climbs need to be less than 5 feet from the ground. If my choices were to move the cache down 45 feet, thereby invalidating the accomplishments of those who had completed the climb, or to archive it, I'd archive it.

 

I hate to see this cache go, but removing the requirement that the whole cache is based on isn't fair to the people who earned it under the original rules.

 

You have just taken the torch from my previous Eyeroll of the Year candidate.

 

-- Edit --

 

Looks like I scored the webcam back on 06-26-2013. The picture says it was taken at 4AM but I assure you it was not. It was more like between 8 and 9AM. But I had no idea there was an ALR at the time and the CO certainly let me log stand.

Edited by bflentje
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If any of you are controlling cache owners, you arent welcome here. You are no fun. You are taking the game way too serious. I go geocaching to relax and have fun and get away from my busy life. When I find out someone deleted my found it log because I made a very tiny mistake of not reading the cache page right or the CO wasnt very clear of how to find his/her caches, it makes me want to quit. Do GS want people to quit over deleted logs? I dont think so.

This argument seems a bit one-sided to me. If the point of geocaching is to have fun and to get outside, then why be upset if a 'Found It' log is deleted? The CO's placed and maintained (usually) the caches for you to find. If a cache seeker can't bother to abide by the cache description, which the CO also spent time creating, then what's so egregious about the CO deleting the cache seeker's log? There are certainly cases where some CO's might be over-the-top in their requirements, like if an EC owner deletes a log because a cacher estimates a distance of 200ft instead of 250ft - but if the CO requests the year from a plaque be emailed to them (Virtuals) or that a webcam be pointing in a specific direction, then I'm not sure I'd call that 'controlling'. Those are not over-the-top requests.

 

+1

 

Swineflew is being one sided. He stated "You are taking the game way too serious", but from his reply, seems he is the one who is taking this too seriously and is upset.

 

Sure, there are a few control freaks out there who get ridiculous with their thinking. But caches, like the one mentioned in this thread, were not placed with this in mind. These were placed in an effort to offer something a bit different than your every day cache. The CO's webcam was set up to give finders both, a fun little challenge and a unique experience. It's a bit different and i have no doubt, was more enjoyable for those who completed it following the CO's easy requirement.

 

Sure seems the control freaks these days, are the ones that want every cache to be placed in the manner they think they should be. For the majority, easy and quick for smiley count. Unfortunately, this has taken a toll on creative and challenging caches. ;)

 

Amen.

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Interesting...there is one 2013 log that was deleted in 2015 and then a bunch of 2015 logs that were deleted in 2015, followed by three deleted "commentary" notes. What changed in 2015?

 

Folks are correct about the ALR allowance going away in 2009, but there are still caches with ALRs because they haven't been corrected by the Cache Owner and because someone hasn't brought it to the local Reviewer's or Groundspeak's attention. Had I, as a Reviewer, come across the cache after 2009, I would have asked that the sunrise requirement be made optional.

 

I also review EarthCaches. I don't seek out photo requirements, but when I see one, I request the Cache Owner to make the photo optional.

 

I feel like I've explained this several times and am not going to go quote myself. Here's what happened:

 

1. I did not *consistently* enforce the sunrise requirement of this cache because I (incorrectly) assumed people were following the simple directions and was completely unaware of the ALR rule change. I realize and admit this makes me a horrible CO and a horrible GCer in general. A horrible person too, really. It's true.

 

2. When I deleted a midday bright-sunshine log recently, the cacher messaged me complaining about other logs that I had missed, so *per his request*, I went back and deleted them too.

 

3. One of those cachers (log deleted from 3 months ago) was very upset, reported the cache to GS and send me several nasty emails.

 

That should mostly get you caught up on the sequence of events. As for the deleted logs, I know one was mine, because I incorrectly chose "Owner Maintenance" instead of "Archive" so I copy/pasted the text and deleted the duplicate log before Archiving. I know another was a rant from the cacher mentioned in #3 that I presume he or GS deleted. That is all the information I have.

 

So... what changed? Apparently a rule of the game in 2009 that may or may not even apply to webcams according to recent discussion. People USED to follow the directions, so there wasn't much log deleting required. That changed over time, and I was slow to notice (back to the horrible person thing). That's it. It's really all quire simple.

 

Know what's ironic though? There was a bit in the cache description about holding your "GPS high in the air" for the webcam photo to identify yourself. That ALR was added at the request of the reviewer when I first published this cache. I thought it was dumb, because how many people would be posting photos of others at this cache location at sunrise, but I did it anyway and never enforced it. I know, I know... this makes me a horrible person again. But I try not to let my suckiness as a geocacher define me, so I'm ok with that, no matter how much people sure like to point it out. :)

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Interesting...there is one 2013 log that was deleted in 2015 and then a bunch of 2015 logs that were deleted in 2015, followed by three deleted "commentary" notes. What changed in 2015?

 

Folks are correct about the ALR allowance going away in 2009, but there are still caches with ALRs because they haven't been corrected by the Cache Owner and because someone hasn't brought it to the local Reviewer's or Groundspeak's attention. Had I, as a Reviewer, come across the cache after 2009, I would have asked that the sunrise requirement be made optional.

 

I also review EarthCaches. I don't seek out photo requirements, but when I see one, I request the Cache Owner to make the photo optional.

 

I feel like I've explained this several times and am not going to go quote myself. Here's what happened:

 

1. I did not *consistently* enforce the sunrise requirement of this cache because I (incorrectly) assumed people were following the simple directions and was completely unaware of the ALR rule change. I realize and admit this makes me a horrible CO and a horrible GCer in general. A horrible person too, really. It's true.

 

2. When I deleted a midday bright-sunshine log recently, the cacher messaged me complaining about other logs that I had missed, so *per his request*, I went back and deleted them too.

 

3. One of those cachers (log deleted from 3 months ago) was very upset, reported the cache to GS and send me several nasty emails.

 

That should mostly get you caught up on the sequence of events. As for the deleted logs, I know one was mine, because I incorrectly chose "Owner Maintenance" instead of "Archive" so I copy/pasted the text and deleted the duplicate log before Archiving. I know another was a rant from the cacher mentioned in #3 that I presume he or GS deleted. That is all the information I have.

 

So... what changed? Apparently a rule of the game in 2009 that may or may not even apply to webcams according to recent discussion. People USED to follow the directions, so there wasn't much log deleting required. That changed over time, and I was slow to notice (back to the horrible person thing). That's it. It's really all quire simple.

 

Know what's ironic though? There was a bit in the cache description about holding your "GPS high in the air" for the webcam photo to identify yourself. That ALR was added at the request of the reviewer when I first published this cache. I thought it was dumb, because how many people would be posting photos of others at this cache location at sunrise, but I did it anyway and never enforced it. I know, I know... this makes me a horrible person again. But I try not to let my suckiness as a geocacher define me, so I'm ok with that, no matter how much people sure like to point it out. :)

 

Horrible person? No need for melodrama. You are the one that came in with the rant. Yes...rant. You even use that term in the title of the thread. So, you ranted (and possibly raved) about folks getting upset at you for deleting their entirely valid logs, rant (and maybe rave) about a rule change you didn't know about...and now rant about people calling you out on not actually checking that people are fulfilling the unenforceable requirement. Call me crazy, but it seems like if you are going to have a specific requirement for logging...seems natural that you'd want to check that people are actually doing what you asked. If you aren't up to the (minor) task, you don't really have much room to complain when it ultimately comes back to bite you. <_<

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I skim-read through most of this topic, so maybe someone has already pointed this out?

 

Geocaching is a location-based game, not a time-based game.

 

Not being a morning person, no place is beautiful at sunrise in my eyes. Now sunset is a different story...

 

Actually, lots of caches are also time-based. Can't be found during winter. Only accessible at low tide. Park closed from dusk to 6:00 AM. The big difference is that my examples are not enforced by the CO.

 

Skye.

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I skim-read through most of this topic, so maybe someone has already pointed this out?

 

Geocaching is a location-based game, not a time-based game.

 

Not being a morning person, no place is beautiful at sunrise in my eyes. Now sunset is a different story...

 

Sunset over the ocean on the east coast of Florida is a bit tough. Now sunset over the ocean should be doable on the west coast of Florida. Just think, the ALR for that one could be a picture of the green flash.

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