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One Less Webcam - My Rant...


Rogue23
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My "Rise and Sunshine" webcam (GCJN85) has been online since June 8, 2004 - http://www.geocaching.com/geocache/GCJN85_rise-and-sunshine

 

It's a surf cam pointing at a beach access on the Atlantic Ocean in Florida. The premise was simple: Be there for sunrise, take a photo, and log your Find. If you wanted to visit at a time other than at sunrise, you were welcome to post a photo and leave a Note.

 

For 11+ years, this was not a problem for 167 Finders. Earlier this week, someone logged a "Find" with an obviously mid-morning photo that even had a 10:33 a.m. timestamp on it. I deleted it. This cacher emailed me to complain and said that a few others has slipped through the cracks and I needed to delete their logs too (kind of a big baby move, but fair enough - it was my bad for missing them previously). So I did. One of THOSE cachers, wvcachers3, sent me a nasty email about deleting his log and told me he had already emailed GC to complain that my one requirement of being at the location at sunrise was just too hard for him (insert whiny *wah wah* baby sounds), and I should be forced to remove the requirement - This very simple requirement that not a single other person has had an issue with for 11+ years.

 

And wouldn't you know it, but GC agreed with him! They emailed me and told me to remove the requirement. And with their apparent disdain for webcams (so I am told), I guess this decision is not up for reconsideration or the cache up for grandfathering. Please note that this simple "sunrise" requirement has been there since Day 1 when it was approved. I am told that GC policy about such requirements changed in 2009, 5 years after this cache went online.

 

Obviously, I am not going to comply, as removing the sunrise requirement defeats the entire purpose of this *Rise and Sunshine* cache. The point was to get people to see a beautiful sunrise over the ocean. Removing the requirement and opening this up to anyone and everyone with a cell phone would take away from the accomplishments of all of those who got up before the crack of dawn for more than a decade to make the trip to be at this location at exactly sunrise. So instead, I'm going to archive it, unless the higher ups at GC come to their senses and reconsider (I am not going to hold my breath).

 

Many thanks to everyone who took the time to Find and enjoy this cache over the years.

 

Ironically, GC gave wvcachers3 the smilie that he didn't earn back. But not before he ruined this for everyone else. Man, this game sure has changed since I was actively playing it a decade ago.

 

End Rant. End Webcam.

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Well, retroactively applying "current rules" to an old cache without grandfathering it is dumb. I realize that's just my opinion and doesn't count for anything in this world, and that's ok too.

 

For anyone who thinks I shouldn't archive the cache, I don't feel like I have a choice. My hands are tied. To me, it's the same as if I had a 50 foot tree climb and GC came up with a rule that said all tree climbs need to be less than 5 feet from the ground. If my choices were to move the cache down 45 feet, thereby invalidating the accomplishments of those who had completed the climb, or to archive it, I'd archive it.

 

I hate to see this cache go, but removing the requirement that the whole cache is based on isn't fair to the people who earned it under the original rules.

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The ALR revision to the Guidelines was in the time frame of 2009 so technically your Webcam was only in compliance with the Guidelines for 5 years, not 11+ years.

 

Obviously, I am not going to comply..

 

A pity, really. Seems like such a "big baby move", which I heard someone say once.

 

I WANT to keep the cache online, exactly as it is and has been for more than a decade.

 

Do you honestly think:

 

1. That is fair to the previous finders?

2. That makes any sense, given the obvious point of this cache?

 

You caught the name, right? "Rise and Sunshine"

Edited by Rogue23
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seems a little strange to only allow a "found it" log for a certain times of day, especially on a web-cam. And I like how you put "find" in quotations as if it was an armchair log or something.

 

The point of this cache was to make a webcam challenging, while taking people to a beautiful place at the most beautiful time of day. When it was published, smartphones didn't exist and it not only required getting there before sunrise, but required you to convince a friend to watch you on a computer at the crack of dawn as well. It was a unique spin on a webcam. Technology has made this cache much easier to Find now, but removing that requirement removes it's uniqueness and challenge.

 

I don't know what you are talking about with the "armchair log" comment.

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My "Rise and Sunshine" webcam (GCJN85) has been online since June 8, 2004 - http://www.geocaching.com/geocache/GCJN85_rise-and-sunshine

 

It's a surf cam pointing at a beach access on the Atlantic Ocean in Florida. The premise was simple: Be there for sunrise, take a photo, and log your Find. If you wanted to visit at a time other than at sunrise, you were welcome to post a photo and leave a Note.

 

For 11+ years, this was not a problem for 167 Finders. Earlier this week, someone logged a "Find" with an obviously mid-morning photo that even had a 10:33 a.m. timestamp on it. I deleted it. This cacher emailed me to complain and said that a few others has slipped through the cracks and I needed to delete their logs too (kind of a big baby move, but fair enough - it was my bad for missing them previously). So I did. One of THOSE cachers, wvcachers3, sent me a nasty email about deleting his log and told me he had already emailed GC to complain that my one requirement of being at the location at sunrise was just too hard for him (insert whiny *wah wah* baby sounds), and I should be forced to remove the requirement - This very simple requirement that not a single other person has had an issue with for 11+ years.

 

And wouldn't you know it, but GC agreed with him! They emailed me and told me to remove the requirement. And with their apparent disdain for webcams (so I am told), I guess this decision is not up for reconsideration or the cache up for grandfathering. Please note that this simple "sunrise" requirement has been there since Day 1 when it was approved. I am told that GC policy about such requirements changed in 2009, 5 years after this cache went online.

 

Obviously, I am not going to comply, as removing the sunrise requirement defeats the entire purpose of this *Rise and Sunshine* cache. The point was to get people to see a beautiful sunrise over the ocean. Removing the requirement and opening this up to anyone and everyone with a cell phone would take away from the accomplishments of all of those who got up before the crack of dawn for more than a decade to make the trip to be at this location at exactly sunrise. So instead, I'm going to archive it, unless the higher ups at GC come to their senses and reconsider (I am not going to hold my breath).

 

Many thanks to everyone who took the time to Find and enjoy this cache over the years.

 

Ironically, GC gave wvcachers3 the smilie that he didn't earn back. But not before he ruined this for everyone else. Man, this game sure has changed since I was actively playing it a decade ago.

 

End Rant. End Webcam.

I agree with you, I had a geocache that was 7 feet too close to another one and guess what? The cache it was next to was 25 feet off, the requirements are 528 feet away A PHYSICAL CONTAINER so it shouldve been published! Anyway Im gonna have to side with you. The mods who disagree are just following code, when someone is right disagree and say they are wrong. I say if its not broke dont fix it. And mods, be ethical...

Edited by Fisher513
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Well, retroactively applying "current rules" to an old cache without grandfathering it is dumb.

 

It's also consistent.

 

Do you honestly think:

 

1. That is fair to the previous finders?

2. That makes any sense, given the obvious point of this cache?

 

Yes, I do think it's fair. I had an ALR on one of my Traditionals for a few years, but promptly removed it in 2009 at the time of the Guidelines change in order to be consistent with current practices on the website. It didn't make a whit of difference on the way people were logging the cache.

 

I'm sorry that the theme of your Listing can't be supported by your logging requirement any longer. To be honest, I've found that most folks that can play along with a theme like yours, will continue to do so without the ALR.

 

I don't know what you are talking about with the "armchair log" comment.

 

Example: pictures taken with phones rather than the webcam as intended. I see a few examples on the Listing without looking very hard.

Edited by Touchstone
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Obviously, I am not going to comply, as removing the sunrise requirement defeats the entire purpose of this *Rise and Sunshine* cache. The point was to get people to see a beautiful sunrise over the ocean. Removing the requirement and opening this up to anyone and everyone with a cell phone would take away from the accomplishments of all of those who got up before the crack of dawn for more than a decade to make the trip to be at this location at exactly sunrise.

 

If someone places a cache on top of a mountain and I climb the mountain, my accomplishment is not diminished just because someone else might rent a helicopter to deposit them on the summit or because someone eventually builds a ski lift to the top. When I find a cache, the accomplishment is mine to enjoy, regardless of what the future holds.

 

The only people hurt by your actions are the future seekers who no longer have a unique and interesting Webcam cache to bring them to this spot.

 

Sometimes (most times, I dare say) when Groundspeak changes a guideline they grandfather the existing caches. The fact that your cache was allowed to continue after GS stopped allowing Webcams to be published is evidence of this. The removal of ALRs was one of the rare changes that was not grandfathered and existing caches were to be brought into compliance. Frankly, it's surprising it took this many years before someone finally called you out on this.

 

One minor edit to the cache page and the cache could have been around for another 11 years but instead you choose to pick up your ball and go home. From my perspective, someone was wrong in this case but it wasn't Groundspeak. Of course, you were perfectly within your rights as a cache owner to archive your cache so I guess who was right or who was wrong is a bit of a moot point.

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I don't know what you are talking about with the "armchair log" comment.

 

Example: pictures taken with phones rather than the webcam as intended. I see a few examples on the Listing without looking very hard.

 

I specifically allowed for that (this is explained in the cache description), because way back when, the webcam was a lot less reliable than it is now. To me, the point of this cache was to take people to a beautiful place *at the right time* - not to make them jump through technical hoops to snap a low-res webcam photo of themselves. I'd actually prefer to see people's personal high-res sunrise photos, but of course it is a webcam after all. Ideally, people post both.

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Sounds like a fun Webcam without the requirement.

 

It was a fun webcam. I did do sunrise for it, even though I knew that the CO would be unable to enforce the ALR if I had logged it at noon. I have seen caches with "walls of fame" or something on them, where people that complete the fun optional ALR are listed.

 

Why not make the sunrise thing optional, and create a "Early Bird Honor Roll" (or whatever you want to call it) to honor those that decided to do sunrise?

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Obviously, I am not going to comply, as removing the sunrise requirement defeats the entire purpose of this *Rise and Sunshine* cache. The point was to get people to see a beautiful sunrise over the ocean. Removing the requirement and opening this up to anyone and everyone with a cell phone would take away from the accomplishments of all of those who got up before the crack of dawn for more than a decade to make the trip to be at this location at exactly sunrise.

 

If someone places a cache on top of a mountain and I climb the mountain, my accomplishment is not diminished just because someone else might rent a helicopter to deposit them on the summit or because someone eventually builds a ski lift to the top. When I find a cache, the accomplishment is mine to enjoy, regardless of what the future holds.

 

The only people hurt by your actions are the future seekers who no longer have a unique and interesting Webcam cache to bring them to this spot.

 

Sometimes (most times, I dare say) when Groundspeak changes a guideline they grandfather the existing caches. The fact that your cache was allowed to continue after GS stopped allowing Webcams to be published is evidence of this. The removal of ALRs was one of the rare changes that was not grandfathered and existing caches were to be brought into compliance. Frankly, it's surprising it took this many years before someone finally called you out on this.

 

One minor edit to the cache page and the cache could have been around for another 11 years but instead you choose to pick up your ball and go home. From my perspective, someone was wrong in this case but it wasn't Groundspeak. Of course, you were perfectly within your rights as a cache owner to archive your cache so I guess who was right or who was wrong is a bit of a moot point.

 

I haven't pressed the button yet. I am still holding out hope that GS will change their mind (even though I get the feeling that is not going to happen).

 

You make several valid points that I will consider. Thank you.

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The mods who disagree are just following code, when someone is right disagree and say they are wrong. I say if its not broke dont fix it. And mods, be ethical...

 

I don't understand the mods comment. My comments here are my own.

Well I don't understand who GS is making him change an 11 year old cache so we are on the same boat.

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You could keep the sunrise clause in as an optional fun task and get up to speed on currant ALR's.

I agree with Groundspeak, but if you choose to archive your listing I don't think many will care. Only 167 finds in 11 years is not a good average.

 

That's EXACTLY the point. All else equal, the fewer finds a cache has, the more difficult it is to find.

 

Taking away the sunrise requirement of this cache removes the reason it is special.

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I also found a couple of examples (with time stamps) of you not policing your ALR very well. I think you should give up the pretense of acting upset at this point and just remove the ALR as Groundspeak requested. Sounds like a fun Webcam without the requirement.

 

I see several examples myself. Wonder if there was an issue between these two geocachers? Why start deleting logs now that don't comply with the ALR requirements?

 

A few years ago many of us that own Earthcaches had to adjust our EC's because of the new ALR guidelines, so the same should apply to webcam owners. B)

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It's really your fault for letting some slip through the cracks. You should have either applied the rule to all or none. You didn't properly maintain your own cache.

 

Correct. Which I have admitted and me "fixing" this is what caused this whole mess.

 

Bear in mind, no one ever notified me when this rule change went into effect in 2009. I wasn't scrutinizing the photos people were posting, because it never occurred to me that people wouldn't follow the simple directions. I am not sure how a few of you are not understanding this.

 

Once I realize what was happening, I took steps to correct it. I understand there are a few more logs in there now that shouldn't be (per my rules), but it's clear that these are within GS's rules (right?), so I am notsure why anyone would be advising me to delete them now...? If they are allowed, they are allowed, right?

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I'm sorry, but I do feel it is bad form for you to post a rant about another geocacher and call them out in the forums.

 

You may feel that your webcam cache is special, but they are archived here often, and one less is not going to hurt. We can still list them here on the Waymarking site and keep them fun.

Edited by Rock Chalk
Edited to remove quoted text from post that has since been deleted
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It's really your fault for letting some slip through the cracks. You should have either applied the rule to all or none. You didn't properly maintain your own cache.

 

Correct. Which I have admitted and me "fixing" this is what caused this whole mess.

 

Bear in mind, no one ever notified me when this rule change went into effect in 2009. I wasn't scrutinizing the photos people were posting, because it never occurred to me that people wouldn't follow the simple directions. I am not sure how a few of you are not understanding this.

 

Once I realize what was happening, I took steps to correct it. I understand there are a few more logs in there now that shouldn't be (per my rules), but it's clear that these are within GS's rules (right?), so I am notsure why anyone would be advising me to delete them now...? If they are allowed, they are allowed, right?

 

If you had been enforcing your rules all along, you would have found out about the GS rule change a long time ago, and in the same way you just did find out about it. A cacher who knows the rules would have complained about you breaking GS rules.

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A couple people doing it improperly in the past with logs you let stand:

2/7/2007--"webcam snafu," claimed find without a webcam pic

1/14/2008--find claimed with family photo taken with camera, no webcam pic

 

I'll just stop there, I'm sure there would be others.

 

You seem to care most that they went at sunrise. I care most that they actually use the webcam. One of my pet peeves is people who claim them that did't actually use the webcam. If you weren't deleting logs back then, why delete them now?

 

On 1/27/2009, you answered someone saying they didn't like the requirements with this:

"No thanks. Most of my caches are not cut out for everyone, and this obviously includes you. Only 19 people have found this cache in the more than 4.5 years it has been active. Those people had what it takes to log this Find, so if I changed the requirements, that would cheapen what they did to earn their Finds. I see it as the same as moving my "CLIMB" Cache from 35 feet up in a tree to the first branch, 6 feet up. And that's just not gonna happen."

 

2 of the 19 finds were bogus--

Edited by Dame Deco
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I think I'd do the same thing. Archive it and also have it locked because it shows on 25 bookmark lists and will continue to get logged.

 

Not sure i would archive just yet but yes, it would bug me that this happened. I know they're GS's rules but it seems a shame that a cache like this couldn't have been grandfathered as it was originally placed. I sure hate seeing the entitlement card played so often but that seems to be the way the world is heading. :(

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I don't know what you are talking about with the "armchair log" comment.

 

Example: pictures taken with phones rather than the webcam as intended. I see a few examples on the Listing without looking very hard.

 

I specifically allowed for that (this is explained in the cache description), because way back when, the webcam was a lot less reliable than it is now. To me, the point of this cache was to take people to a beautiful place *at the right time* - not to make them jump through technical hoops to snap a low-res webcam photo of themselves. I'd actually prefer to see people's personal high-res sunrise photos, but of course it is a webcam after all. Ideally, people post both.

 

On the other fin, I do not permit selfies. They are against the guidelines, and many webcams have been archived for permitting selfies. (Though that is usually when the webcam stops working...)

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Example: pictures taken with phones rather than the webcam as intended. I see a few examples on the Listing without looking very hard.

 

All of the webcams that I have visited were taken with my phone. I download the link to my email and access it on site, then save and upload the image from my phone. Technology has changed a lot in the last 12 years. So would my finds not be considered valid? :unsure:

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Yes, I'm sorry GS has a blanket rule against ALRs. It seems clear to me this isn't the kind of ALR that led to that rule, but it's still an ALR.

 

I'm also sorry that the seeker was so desperate to get the count that he couldn't accept your decision despite the GS rule. Some people just take this too seriously.

 

And I'm sorry the rule and the seeker upset you. Honestly, I don't think you have to defend the people that played by the rules: no one being reasonable should think their accomplishment of a sunrise picture is diminished by someone else cheating. Just enjoy the fun you've provided for 167 seekers and don't worry about the ones that didn't appreciated it but demanded the find, anyway.

 

But most of all, I'm sorry that I'm not going to be able to come get my picture taken at sunrise because the cache isn't going to be there anymore.

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Still going through the logs, and you "took pity" on a lot of cachers over the years (to use their words). You haven't ever really been all that strict about enforcing the rules. I was in that area a couple years ago and skipped your cache because I was there in the late morning. It would be a shame to archive it--so few webcams even work anymore. I like the idea of those calling for an honor roll for those at dawn. And also--a lot of folks will do it as a intended even without a requirement if you ask them to, as someone else upthread said. Most cachers try to caches as intended.

Edited by Dame Deco
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Example: pictures taken with phones rather than the webcam as intended. I see a few examples on the Listing without looking very hard.

 

All of the webcams that I have visited were taken with my phone. I download the link to my email and access it on site, then save and upload the image from my phone. Technology has changed a lot in the last 12 years. So would my finds not be considered valid? :unsure:

 

Two different things. You accessed the webcam via your phone and saved the image on it. Pretty much the same thing we do when getting a friend to access the webcam and save our image on their computer. A selfie using the phone's built in camera is not the way to do a webcam cache.

 

Imo, if the webcam is down, then the person visiting is out of luck and shouldn't try claiming a find. And now that i've said that, i see where the OP states that he didn't mind people posting their own camera's pictures. Sorry, but i don't agree with this at all...

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It's really your fault for letting some slip through the cracks. You should have either applied the rule to all or none. You didn't properly maintain your own cache.

 

Correct. Which I have admitted and me "fixing" this is what caused this whole mess.

 

Bear in mind, no one ever notified me when this rule change went into effect in 2009. I wasn't scrutinizing the photos people were posting, because it never occurred to me that people wouldn't follow the simple directions. I am not sure how a few of you are not understanding this.

 

Once I realize what was happening, I took steps to correct it. I understand there are a few more logs in there now that shouldn't be (per my rules), but it's clear that these are within GS's rules (right?), so I am notsure why anyone would be advising me to delete them now...? If they are allowed, they are allowed, right?

 

If you had been enforcing your rules all along, you would have found out about the GS rule change a long time ago, and in the same way you just did find out about it. A cacher who knows the rules would have complained about you breaking GS rules.

 

Ok... so what is the point you are making? That we should have had this conversation 6 years ago? Well, unfortunately my time machine cache was archived, so that's not going to happen. How about if we focus on the present?

 

If you are saying it is my fault that that me deleting logs that didn't meet the requirement ended up leading to a cacher reporting the cache to GS (regardless of what year that happened), then I agree with you. If you are trying to make some other point, I'm missing it.

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A couple people doing it improperly in the past with logs you let stand:

2/7/2007--"webcam snafu," claimed find without a webcam pic

1/14/2008--find claimed with family photo taken with camera, no webcam pic

 

I'll just stop there, I'm sure there would be others.

 

You seem to care most that they went at sunrise. I care most that they actually use the webcam. One of my pet peeves is people who claim them that did't actually use the webcam. If you weren't deleting logs back then, why delete them now?

 

On 1/27/2009, you answered someone saying they didn't like the requirements with this:

"No thanks. Most of my caches are not cut out for everyone, and this obviously includes you. Only 19 people have found this cache in the more than 4.5 years it has been active. Those people had what it takes to log this Find, so if I changed the requirements, that would cheapen what they did to earn their Finds. I see it as the same as moving my "CLIMB" Cache from 35 feet up in a tree to the first branch, 6 feet up. And that's just not gonna happen."

 

2 of the 19 finds were bogus--

 

Funny, 6.5 years later and I feel exactly the same. And I was deleting logs that didn't meet the requirement back then.

 

I am sorry if I missed removing some that didn't meet the requirement over the past 11 years. I find it very bizarre that you are hung up on that, as that really doesn't have anything to do with anything. And yes, I specifically allowed for people to log camera finds at this webcam cache for when it was down. Again, the important part to me was getting people to the beach at sunrise, not the mechanism of taking the photo to prove their visit. I think people who were at the right place at the right time should be allowed to log the cache even if the camera was having technical difficulties. You disagree, and that's fine.

 

But I don't see what any of this has to do with anything?

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I think I'd do the same thing. Archive it and also have it locked because it shows on 25 bookmark lists and will continue to get logged.

 

Not sure i would archive just yet but yes, it would bug me that this happened. I know they're GS's rules but it seems a shame that a cache like this couldn't have been grandfathered as it was originally placed. I sure hate seeing the entitlement card played so often but that seems to be the way the world is heading. :(

 

Amen.

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Sounds like a fun Webcam without the requirement.

 

It was a fun webcam. I did do sunrise for it, even though I knew that the CO would be unable to enforce the ALR if I had logged it at noon. I have seen caches with "walls of fame" or something on them, where people that complete the fun optional ALR are listed.

 

Why not make the sunrise thing optional, and create a "Early Bird Honor Roll" (or whatever you want to call it) to honor those that decided to do sunrise?

 

So, I've replied to this suggestion (that I like) twice now, and twice my reply had been deleted. The first time, my reply included a somewhat negative word, so I understand the deletion, but the second time, my post was rated G for sure.

 

I'll try one last time, phrasing things slightly differently (I am not sure why this keeps being deleted, unless someone wants it to look like I am ignoring your suggestion).... My questions is:

 

Would GS allow me to do as you are suggestion, but take it one step further, creating two lists, ie:

 

Wall of Fame (meeting the optional requirement)

Wall of Shame (not meeting the optional requirement)

 

I am not married to these names in any way, but am using them to illustrate a point. The idea would be to make 2 lists in order to not only recognize the past finders but also to discourage people from taking the easy way out. Think of it like Santa's Naughty List. You don't want to be on that, right?

 

MODS - If the word "shame" is not allowed, please censor it or replace with _____. Or at least answer my question before deleting this post. Thank you.

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My thoughts, and I am sure there are others with more ideas as well.

 

To those that have done the cache as it stood in the past, they have the memory and the original logs. I personally think it was a cool idea. I did two caches in Delaware in May at or near sunrise and it was spectacular to be there at that time of day. Going at that time was not a requirement of either cache.

 

However, if the COs were to change the requirements now, to somehow make them simpler, it wouldn't harm me at all. The caches I did are still the ones in my mind, and the ones that my photos and logs cannot be taken away if the requirements do change. I alone experienced the coolness of the way I did them. Rarely do I ever look back at my old finds to see how others did them; I know I did them the way they were required to be done when I found it.

 

I can't tell you how to set your requirements on your caches, however, archiving such a cool and rare cache type seems sad to me because a few folks wanted to argue about their photo.

 

I would love to have the opportunity to visit your cache with the sunrise requirements some day. We plan to vacation there next Spring Break. I used to live years ago in Orlando (NNPS Class 8502), and visited the Melbourne area many times. Please don't let a few folks who want to whine to the smiley police about something so relatively minor ruin it for the rest of us, nor let them ruin your fun and sharing of photos from other cachers.

 

Archive or not though, I'm still going to the beach at sunrise. I hope to add your cache if it's still active. I appreciate your efforts to keep this alive for over a decade.

 

Mr. CdAGeogeeks

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Yes, I'm sorry GS has a blanket rule against ALRs. It seems clear to me this isn't the kind of ALR that led to that rule, but it's still an ALR.

 

I'm also sorry that the seeker was so desperate to get the count that he couldn't accept your decision despite the GS rule. Some people just take this too seriously.

 

And I'm sorry the rule and the seeker upset you. Honestly, I don't think you have to defend the people that played by the rules: no one being reasonable should think their accomplishment of a sunrise picture is diminished by someone else cheating. Just enjoy the fun you've provided for 167 seekers and don't worry about the ones that didn't appreciated it but demanded the find, anyway.

 

But most of all, I'm sorry that I'm not going to be able to come get my picture taken at sunrise because the cache isn't going to be there anymore.

 

Bah..... reasonable posts like this are the only things making me somewhat question my decision.

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Bottom line is that Groundspeak agreed with the person that complained. Now it is up to you to adjust your listing to comply with the guidelines or archive it. Myself, I would just update my listing to comply to currant guidelines or ask someone else to take over ownership.

 

I was informed that webcams can not be transferred to other COs. I guess (my own speculation) the idea is to get them to all die off eventually.

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My thoughts, and I am sure there are others with more ideas as well.

 

To those that have done the cache as it stood in the past, they have the memory and the original logs. I personally think it was a cool idea. I did two caches in Delaware in May at or near sunrise and it was spectacular to be there at that time of day. Going at that time was not a requirement of either cache.

 

However, if the COs were to change the requirements now, to somehow make them simpler, it wouldn't harm me at all. The caches I did are still the ones in my mind, and the ones that my photos and logs cannot be taken away if the requirements do change. I alone experienced the coolness of the way I did them. Rarely do I ever look back at my old finds to see how others did them; I know I did them the way they were required to be done when I found it.

 

I can't tell you how to set your requirements on your caches, however, archiving such a cool and rare cache type seems sad to me because a few folks wanted to argue about their photo.

 

I would love to have the opportunity to visit your cache with the sunrise requirements some day. We plan to vacation there next Spring Break. I used to live years ago in Orlando (NNPS Class 8502), and visited the Melbourne area many times. Please don't let a few folks who want to whine to the smiley police about something so relatively minor ruin it for the rest of us, nor let them ruin your fun and sharing of photos from other cachers.

 

Archive or not though, I'm still going to the beach at sunrise. I hope to add your cache if it's still active. I appreciate your efforts to keep this alive for over a decade.

 

Mr. CdAGeogeeks

 

I know some people think I started this thread to rant about GS rules and complain about whiny GCers (both partially true), but I also did so to get well thought out opinions I may not be considering. And I have received a few of those now, so thank you for yours.

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Bottom line is that Groundspeak agreed with the person that complained. Now it is up to you to adjust your listing to comply with the guidelines or archive it. Myself, I would just update my listing to comply to currant guidelines or ask someone else to take over ownership.

 

I was informed that webcams can not be transferred to other COs. I guess (my own speculation) the idea is to get them to all die off eventually.

 

That is interesting, I did not know that they could not be transfered to another user. I have a few webcams listed myself, just not here, and I enjoy them. I would just update my listing to meet Groundspeak's guidelines, after all it is their sandbox. We are to play nice with others here that use their service. :)

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Would GS allow me to do as you are suggestion, but take it one step further, creating two lists, ie:

 

Wall of Fame (meeting the optional requirement)

Wall of Shame (not meeting the optional requirement)

 

I am not married to these names in any way, but am using them to illustrate a point. The idea would be to make 2 lists in order to not only recognize the past finders but also to discourage people from taking the easy way out. Think of it like Santa's Naughty List. You don't want to be on that, right?

I am not a lackey or a volunteer reviewer, and I don't play one on TV, but I think a naughty list would fall under the following clause of the site's terms of use: "You agree not to: [...] Upload, post, transmit or otherwise distribute (including by emailing us) any content that is unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, tortious, defamatory, vulgar, profane, obscene, libelous, invasive of another's privacy, hateful, embarrassing, harmful to minors, or racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable to any other person or entity."

 

Terms like "defamatory" or "embarrassing" are fairly broad, not to mention terms like "otherwise objectionable".

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Sounds like a fun Webcam without the requirement.

 

It was a fun webcam. I did do sunrise for it, even though I knew that the CO would be unable to enforce the ALR if I had logged it at noon. I have seen caches with "walls of fame" or something on them, where people that complete the fun optional ALR are listed.

 

Why not make the sunrise thing optional, and create a "Early Bird Honor Roll" (or whatever you want to call it) to honor those that decided to do sunrise?

 

So, I've replied to this suggestion (that I like) twice now, and twice my reply had been deleted. The first time, my reply included a somewhat negative word, so I understand the deletion, but the second time, my post was rated G for sure.

 

I'll try one last time, phrasing things slightly differently (I am not sure why this keeps being deleted, unless someone wants it to look like I am ignoring your suggestion).... My questions is:

 

Would GS allow me to do as you are suggestion, but take it one step further, creating two lists, ie:

 

Wall of Fame (meeting the optional requirement)

Wall of Shame (not meeting the optional requirement)

 

I am not married to these names in any way, but am using them to illustrate a point. The idea would be to make 2 lists in order to not only recognize the past finders but also to discourage people from taking the easy way out. Think of it like Santa's Naughty List. You don't want to be on that, right?

 

MODS - If the word "shame" is not allowed, please censor it or replace with _____. Or at least answer my question before deleting this post. Thank you.

Chiliheads suggestion is good, and what you describe sounds perfectly acceptable, although for prudence sake, I would probably not include the wall of Shame. I personally think it's hilarious, but I'm pretty sure it would offend somebody at sometime, ending up with another conversation with Groundspeak.

 

Best of luck on a positive outcome.

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