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Tired of Looters.


chronica
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I recently got into Geocaching, every single geocache I've been to has not been there. This city I live in is nothing but greedy looters and its extremely frustrating due to the fact I have to WALK to each and every one of these locations only to find nothing at all. And yes, I've made sure they're not just well hidden. 3/4 of them had chains or duct tape attached to the location, and which I assumed was remains of what was left of the cache. This is EXTREMELY frustrating and tiring, and I'm already starting to get fairly bored of this only for that single reason. Any tips on how to find good caches? The caches in my area usually date back from 1-2 months ago on their last logs.

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I recently got into Geocaching, every single geocache I've been to has not been there. This city I live in is nothing but greedy looters and its extremely frustrating due to the fact I have to WALK to each and every one of these locations only to find nothing at all. And yes, I've made sure they're not just well hidden. 3/4 of them had chains or duct tape attached to the location, and which I assumed was remains of what was left of the cache. This is EXTREMELY frustrating and tiring, and I'm already starting to get fairly bored of this only for that single reason. Any tips on how to find good caches? The caches in my area usually date back from 1-2 months ago on their last logs.

You've found two, so every single geocache really isn't missing.

 

Are you using an app? Which one?

If the free app, it only shows you the simple caches up to a certain difficulty/terrain rating, and I'd be kinda surprised it allowed you to find one needing maintenance.

That's supposedly filtered out (as well as a few Did Not Finds, or a Needs Archive).

 

For us, we've found the "good" caches are out of town, but some like the urban area hides. :)

Kinda limited to what you can find when walking's your only tranportation, and by what app you're using.

 

A cache not logged in a while might simply mean the locals have already found them, and now they wait for new folks or travelers.

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A common recommendation for beginners is to stick with small small.gif size, regular regular.gif size, and large large.gif size caches. Until you're more experienced, avoid micro micro.gif size caches, some of which are smaller than most beginners can imagine (sometimes called "nanos"). Save those for later, after you have some experience.

 

Also, stick with caches that have a difficulty rating of no more than 2 stars stars2.gif. Save the more difficult ones for later. You may also want to choose caches with easy terrain ratings. (The difficulty rating tells you how hard it is to find the cache once you get there. The terrain rating tells you how hard it is to get there.) And it is often best to start with traditional 2.gif caches, which will be at the published coordinates. Multi-caches 3.gif or mystery/puzzle caches 8.gif or other cache types can require more work just to figure out where the container is located.

 

Under ideal conditions, a consumer GPSr will be accurate to about 3m (10ft). That applies both to your device, and to the cache owner’s device, so you may find the container 5-6m (16-20ft) from ground zero under ideal conditions. Under less than ideal conditions, both GPSr readings can be much less accurate. Once you get within that distance of ground zero, put your device away and look around for places where a container could be hidden.

 

Where would you hide something? Do you notice anything unusual? Is anything too new, too old, too organized (e.g., UPS: an Unnatural Pile of Sticks/Stones), too symmetrical, not quite the right color or shape, etc.? Don’t look only on the ground; the cache may be knee-level, waist-level, eye-level, or overhead. How might the container be secured in place? With magnets? With a hook? With string? With fishing line? With something else? Does anything move when you touch it? (Be careful when touching things though.)

 

Go ahead and read the cache's additional hints (if provided), and read the past logs and look at any photos in the cache's image gallery. They may help you understand what you're looking for, and how/where it may be hidden. It may also help to look at some of the cache containers available online. For example, check out the cache containers sold by Groundspeak. Also, take a look at the Pictures - Cool Cache Containers (CCC's) thread in the forums, and check out some geocaching videos on YouTube.

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I recently got into Geocaching, every single geocache I've been to has not been there. This city I live in is nothing but greedy looters and its extremely frustrating due to the fact I have to WALK to each and every one of these locations only to find nothing at all.

The way I look at it, you have the good fortune to be in a position to enjoy a walk to each and every one of these locations, and if you find the cache, then that's gravy.

 

If there's a real looting problem in your area, that's bad, and I feel for you. I hope your local geocaching community gets a handle on it. But my point is that you shouldn't let the missing caches eliminate the positives of your experience.

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After one day of geocaching you conclude your city is nothing but greedy looters (although there can be many other reasons that you couldn't find certain caches) and next to that you don't seem to like to walk.

Maybe geocaching is just not your cup of tea. What did you expect? Finding huge geocaches in perfect condition next to a bus stop? If I look at the caches in your neigborhood I can't see how you can be so negative, maybe you tried to find mystery caches and didn't read the cache pages?

 

Geocaching is all about going out and explore. You can walk 10 miles enjoying the scenery and the weather, discovering things you haven't seen before, making beautiful photos and end up writing a "not found log" (which you haven't by the way) for any reason, but still be very happy because you had great day.

Edited by irisisleuk
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You joined up less that a week ago and have found just 2 caches. Are you truly so self confident to believe that a newbie with no caching experience couldn't have possibly missed a well-hidden urban cache? They're supposed to be hard to find, and frankly you don't have enough experience to be making a claim that they've all obviously been stolen because you couldn't find them.

 

Did it occur to you to read the recent logs on these caches? Have they been found recently? That's a fair indication whether the cache is truly missing or not. If the cache has been in place for a year with numerous finds and somebody else found it last weekend, there's a good chance that it's just your lack of experience. There is a learning curve involved with this game and you just don't realize yet all the tricky ways caches can be hidden.

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I've posted twice to this thread now and both times my posts have been silently deleted - presumably by a mod.

 

Freedom of speech? Seems not <_<

 

I've seen your answer twice (yesterday evening and this morning) in the thread notifications.

Looks like censorship. At least there should be an explanation why a post is deleted.

Don't think there wasn't anything wrong with what you wrote, BTW.

Edited by on4bam
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I've posted twice to this thread now and both times my posts have been silently deleted - presumably by a mod.

 

Freedom of speech? Seems not <_<

 

I've seen your answer twice (yesterday evening and this morning) in the thread notifications.

Looks like censorship. At least there should be an explanation why a post is deleted.

Don't think there was anything wrong with what you wrote, BTW.

 

Yeah - when it wasn't there this morning I thought I must have made a mistake and previewed but not posted but then I made sure I posted properly this morning and when I looked back after lunch it had magically disappeared again :blink:

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Team Microdot, your two duplicate posts were off topic to the new geocacher's question/concern, and were unnecessarily harsh towards that new poster. Therefore, they were removed from view. Removal is preferable to a suspension of posting rights; it is easier for the moderator and has less of an impact on the poster, who remains free to post elsewhere.

 

Most experienced posters "get the hint" when one of their posts is hidden because it violates the forum guidelines. As you've instead chosen to take the discussion further off topic by claims of censorship and the illogical extension of the First Amendment to a non-governmental action, at this time I must ask you to refrain from posting further to this thread. Thank you.

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Team Microdot, your two duplicate posts were off topic to the new geocacher's question/concern, and were unnecessarily harsh towards that new poster. Therefore, they were removed from view. Removal is preferable to a suspension of posting rights; it is easier for the moderator and has less of an impact on the poster, who remains free to post elsewhere.

 

Most experienced posters "get the hint" when one of their posts is hidden because it violates the forum guidelines. As you've instead chosen to take the discussion further off topic by claims of censorship and the illogical extension of the First Amendment to a non-governmental action, at this time I must ask you to refrain from posting further to this thread. Thank you.

 

In a situation like this, wouldn't a note of explanation to the errant poster from the moderator have helped?

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We really should be talking to the frustrated new geocacher with positive coaching tips about how to find geocaches when you're new to the game. Posts should say things like "skip micros for now and try looking for small and regular size caches with difficulty ratings of two stars or less." There is absolutely no reason for criticizing the topic starter's log text after just two finds, especially when the other logs on the same caches read similarly, or for debating the moderators' actions when such off-topic, negative posts are removed from view. So, let's focus on helping the OP. Thanks!

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We really should be talking to the frustrated new geocacher with positive coaching tips about how to find geocaches when you're new to the game.

 

I noticed that the attitude while posting a question reflects on the way answers are given. Isn't it normal not to succeed when first trying something new. Assuming all caches you can't find are stolen if you're on a first caching outing is not the right mindset.

It would have been better to just ask what to look for or what to expect from urban caches. A newbie may be better off looking for caches in less populated areas (and bigger boxes) anyway. Eve with 5000+ finds we avoid city caches as much as possible, not as much for difficulty but we're never at ease with people all around us.

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A newbie may be better off looking for caches in less populated areas (and bigger boxes) anyway. Eve[n] with 5000+ finds we avoid city caches as much as possible, not as much for difficulty but we're never at ease with people all around us.

 

I was going to suggest something similar. The two Finds they have appear to be in the heart of Baltimore, which probably doesn't lend itself to a really stellar experience.

 

I tend to do more caching in large parks and open spaces around my home area, and on the road, I tend to look for unusual placements in areas I hadn't considered visiting, particularly if they have a number of favorite points.

 

If I'm just taking a break from a meeting or something, and looking for something close, I tend to keep my expectations pretty low.

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I just looked through the first two pages of cache listings near your two logged finds, and most of the caches in the area seem to be getting found recently by others, so they must be there. There was one on the 2nd page of listings that sounds as though it may be missing (http://coord.info/GC2PPN0 ) but I would not say that anywhere near 3/4 of the caches in your area are missing.

 

OK, I see one that you reported as missing: http://coord.info/GC4MMYT . I agree, based on the previous log, that it could be missing.

On this one, you are assuming it is missing, but the person before you found it. Not sure why you would assume that somebody moved it.

 

Those are the only two DNFs that I saw of yours. Are there others where you found evidence that the caches were stolen that you didn't log, or that I would not have seen in the first to pages of listings?

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Isn't it normal not to succeed when first trying something new.
In another context, I've seen a few first-timers storm out in a huff because they scored in the 60-70% range (which is typical for first-timers). Most of us try to be polite and encouraging, but there isn't much you can do when they're so angry/frustrated that they didn't get a score in the expert range on their first time out.

 

Assuming all caches you can't find are stolen if you're on a first caching outing is not the right mindset.
Back on topic, there have been a number of caches that I was convinced were missing. I found what "must" be the remains of the container/contents. I found what "must" have been the empty hiding spot. I found what "must" have been the attachment mechanism. And I've been wrong. I don't assume the cache is missing any more. I just log a DNF.
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We really should be talking to the frustrated new geocacher with positive coaching tips about how to find geocaches when you're new to the game.

 

I noticed that the attitude while posting a question reflects on the way answers are given. Isn't it normal not to succeed when first trying something new. Assuming all caches you can't find are stolen if you're on a first caching outing is not the right mindset.

It would have been better to just ask what to look for or what to expect from urban caches. A newbie may be better off looking for caches in less populated areas (and bigger boxes) anyway. Eve with 5000+ finds we avoid city caches as much as possible, not as much for difficulty but we're never at ease with people all around us.

 

To be fair, the title of the thread itself appears to be making some real assumptions about others. I think we all (mods included) ought to encourage new folks to not jump to conclusions. That includes not making judgments about those very new cachers, even when put on the defensive about being called a "looter".

 

And to the OP, we can ALL sympathize. My DNF rate has pretty much leveled off (from a very high rate in the beginning), but it's definitely tough to find something when you don't always know what you're looking for. I always found it useful to browse photos, not just in the cache logs, but also google images, etc. of the various container types. I guess when I started I had a vague idea (based on movies) of what an ammo can was, but the first time I found one it took me several seconds to figure out how to open it. My first find, in retrospect, was very obvious...and I found it mainly because of what I do for a living and knowing what should and should not be 'there'. But that's the nature of camouflage...subtle disguises to discourage closer inspection. Does that electrical box really belong there? Is there a knot hole in the only tree close to the coordinates? Does that bolt on that guardrail ACTUALLY go through the rail? Read past 'found it' logs. Sometimes you can catch subtle clues in what other people write...something like "we poked around in the ivy until we heard the hollow thump" or "I looked all around until I realized I had my hand right next to it the whole time". In that last one, you can glean that it is likely several feet off the ground, maybe magnetically attached. Look in any holes or cracks, the undersides of rails, etc. I think a good percentage of my finds happened from this sort of indirect help. I can also tell you that finding a tricky cache can be very satisfying. It got me hooked for sure.

Edited by J Grouchy
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And yes, I've made sure they're not just well hidden. 3/4 of them had chains or duct tape attached to the location, and which I assumed was remains of what was left of the cache.

 

Again, i'm throwing my experience into this reply. I suppose it's possible that your area is prone to theft but even so, i find it hard to believe that so many caches utilize chains in an effort to help keep them from walking off. I can count on both hands, how many i've found over the years that were actually secured with chain.

 

I would say that it's very possible that you are just finding other stuff and not pieces of stolen caches. Like others have said, it would probably be better for you to go for lesser difficulty and larger than micro caches for now. Start getting the hang of things and then move on to the harder stuff.

 

I'd bet money that your assumption that most all of the caches you've looked for were stolen,,, is wrong.

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I can count on both hands, how many i've found over the years that were actually secured with chain.
I've found very few cache containers that were chained to something. Actually, I've found more where a lone bike chain actually was the cache container. Most of those were puzzle caches though, and required effort to figure out what the actual coordinates were, so new geocachers are less likely to stumble upon them.
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Team Microdot, your two duplicate posts were off topic to the new geocacher's question/concern, and were unnecessarily harsh towards that new poster.

 

There have been a few posts in this thread that I thought were unnecessarily harsh towards that new poster.

 

I thought the OP was unnecessarily harsh.

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I would suggest to the OP to ask for a free 30 day trial of premium membership and go out and find some PMO geocaches. I think most PMO geocache listings are maintained better. :)

 

I wouldn't go that far. Most PMO caches seem to me to be about the same as non-PMO caches. There are a few special ones, but PMO is not the magic answer here.

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I would suggest to the OP to ask for a free 30 day trial of premium membership and go out and find some PMO geocaches. I think most PMO geocache listings are maintained better. :)

 

I wouldn't go that far. Most PMO caches seem to me to be about the same as non-PMO caches. There are a few special ones, but PMO is not the magic answer here.

 

It was for me. When the intro app came out several of my geocaches went missing, so I changed them over to PMO. out of all of the geocaches that I seek, the PMO ones are the ones that are maintained. That is just my personal experience that I wanted to share with the OP, not to debate with you. :(

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I would suggest to the OP to ask for a free 30 day trial of premium membership and go out and find some PMO geocaches. I think most PMO geocache listings are maintained better. :)
I wouldn't go that far. Most PMO caches seem to me to be about the same as non-PMO caches. There are a few special ones, but PMO is not the magic answer here.
It was for me. When the intro app came out several of my geocaches went missing, so I changed them over to PMO. out of all of the geocaches that I seek, the PMO ones are the ones that are maintained. That is just my personal experience that I wanted to share with the OP, not to debate with you. :(
I think that what you're observing is that cache owners who maintain their caches are growing tired of cleaning up after muggles with apps. And PMO is the closest they can get to a "no muggles with apps" setting, so they make their caches PMO. So searching for PMO caches would indeed address the stated problem of caches that have been looted but not replaced.

 

But I'm not convinced that the stated problem is an accurate account of the OP's difficulty finding caches.

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I would suggest to the OP to ask for a free 30 day trial of premium membership and go out and find some PMO geocaches. I think most PMO geocache listings are maintained better. :)
I wouldn't go that far. Most PMO caches seem to me to be about the same as non-PMO caches. There are a few special ones, but PMO is not the magic answer here.
It was for me. When the intro app came out several of my geocaches went missing, so I changed them over to PMO. out of all of the geocaches that I seek, the PMO ones are the ones that are maintained. That is just my personal experience that I wanted to share with the OP, not to debate with you. :(
I think that what you're observing is that cache owners who maintain their caches are growing tired of cleaning up after muggles with apps. And PMO is the closest they can get to a "no muggles with apps" setting, so they make their caches PMO. So searching for PMO caches would indeed address the stated problem of caches that have been looted but not replaced.

 

But I'm not convinced that the stated problem is an accurate account of the OP's difficulty finding caches.

In my experience, *on average* PMO caches are better quality.

 

Another suggestion to the OP: go with a couple of friends. When I first started, I had better success finding caches when I went with someone, even if they were also a n000b, as I was. The odds of finding a cache greatly increase when more than one person is searching.

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We didn't find any caches for a day or so. Then found ONE. Another day, we found one more, then we started to "get" the hides. About a week later, we had ten and upgraded to the paid version because we were having fun. Then it was LOTS of finds, did not finds, and great journeys, cache or no cache. Don't give up. Find a friend and keep looking!

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Anyone else noticed that that TS hasn't even bothered to log in after his initial post. No replies here nor any new finds.

 

Interesting <_< or not.

 

I haven't done any scientific research about this, but I would hypothesize that when someone's screen name refers to drug use, there is a low probability that they'll stick around the forum or the game for very long.

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Anyone else noticed that that TS hasn't even bothered to log in after his initial post. No replies here nor any new finds.

 

Interesting <_< or not.

 

I haven't done any scientific research about this, but I would hypothesize that when someone's screen name refers to drug use, there is a low probability that they'll stick around the forum or the game for very long.

 

We can also imagine another scenario...

How a newbie would feel after such a reception on the first time he writes in the forums? Maybe afraid, I guess.

 

Think about it for a while...

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Anyone else noticed that that TS hasn't even bothered to log in after his initial post. No replies here nor any new finds.

 

Interesting <_< or not.

 

I haven't done any scientific research about this, but I would hypothesize that when someone's screen name refers to drug use, there is a low probability that they'll stick around the forum or the game for very long.

 

We can also imagine another scenario...

How a newbie would feel after such a reception on the first time he writes in the forums? Maybe afraid, I guess.

 

Think about it for a while...

 

I see lots of comments with very solid advice about what to do. Don't we have a section for new cachers to ask questions? Why wasn't the post moved there?

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Anyone else noticed that that TS hasn't even bothered to log in after his initial post. No replies here nor any new finds.

 

Interesting <_< or not.

 

I haven't done any scientific research about this, but I would hypothesize that when someone's screen name refers to drug use, there is a low probability that they'll stick around the forum or the game for very long.

 

We can also imagine another scenario...

How a newbie would feel after such a reception on the first time he writes in the forums? Maybe afraid, I guess.

 

Think about it for a while...

It might be just me, but I'd think if one makes their first post accusing folks of looting, claiming all caches are gone (when they did find some...), blaming others for not finding any (when it could simply be little experience...) they should kinda realize they may get a post or two in kind. :)

If it was moved to Getting Started, folks may have given guidance without issue, even though the OP started off with an attitude.

 

I lost count on the number of times someone's stopped in to ask questions (and received answers), or maybe just to vent, then never heard from again...

- No thank yous, no replies, seems to be just "I'm done with you now".

A helpful forum regular agreed once that after a month or so and no reply, maybe end the thread with a "You're welcome...". :laughing:

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I've only been geocaching for a few months but might have some advice.

 

1) If you can't find it, leave and come back another day. You won't get all of them on your first try. I actually searched for oven an hour for a cache in a park once and couldn't find it. I came back the next week and started fresh and found it in 10 minutes.

 

2) If you really think it gone, use the 'watch' feature on the cache page. If the next 5-6 people also log DNF's, it may really be gone. If someone finds it, head back out and give it another go.

 

Good luck!

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We can also imagine another scenario...

How a newbie would feel after such a reception on the first time he writes in the forums? Maybe afraid, I guess.

 

Think about it for a while...

 

I just did a bit of forensics. The OP posted on 9:35 pm 25Aug. The OP profile shows a last visit of 25Aug. The first remotely critical reply (not implying that the reply was wrong) occurred at 4:43 am on 26Aug. after several sympathetic replies.

 

Question: other than using a different account, is there a way for the OP to have seen the critical replies without the profile indicating a visit on 26Aug or later?

 

One observation: the OP stated "I have to WALK to each and every one of these locations" This makes me wonder if s/he is a young person (no driver's license) I have seen a few aggressive (to put it charitably) opening posts on this board this year that I suspect were made by youngsters that do not understand Internet etiquette.

 

I just try to ignore them, even when they bash the people of my spouse's hometown.

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Anyone else noticed that that TS hasn't even bothered to log in after his initial post. No replies here nor any new finds.

 

Interesting <_< or not.

 

More than likely the OP completely forgot about this thread, seeing as he/she started a new thread on the same subject today:

 

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=336105

 

 

B.

Edited by Pup Patrol
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Though rare, strange mass thefts do occur. Here, we sometimes hear about every ammo can in an area going missing.

 

My neighborhood has monthly potlucks, and signs that we put out the week before. Once in a while, one of those signs goes missing. We never know why, but we generally assume it's random stuff -- kids using the signs as frisbees for example. Then one weekend about five years ago, seven of the ten signs went missing in one weekend. No one ever found any evidence of how they left, nor found or returned any of them. There was no wind to speak of. We replaced the signs, and not a single one has gone missing since then.

 

So I'd say to both the OP and the responders -- it can happen, just go on. It doesn't always mean anything. The advice -- the friendly advice -- given in this thread has been good. In particular, don't get discouraged when you don't find a cache, just move on.

 

Edward

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Though rare, strange mass thefts do occur. Here, we sometimes hear about every ammo can in an area going missing.

 

My neighborhood has monthly potlucks, and signs that we put out the week before. Once in a while, one of those signs goes missing. We never know why, but we generally assume it's random stuff -- kids using the signs as frisbees for example. Then one weekend about five years ago, seven of the ten signs went missing in one weekend. No one ever found any evidence of how they left, nor found or returned any of them. There was no wind to speak of. We replaced the signs, and not a single one has gone missing since then.

 

So I'd say to both the OP and the responders -- it can happen, just go on. It doesn't always mean anything. The advice -- the friendly advice -- given in this thread has been good. In particular, don't get discouraged when you don't find a cache, just move on.

 

Edward

 

True, there was a notorious cache thief who tried to destroy caching in the Adirondacks. Puzzles, members only caches, caches chained to trees, 10 mile hikes, nothing was of limits for this guy. He stole them all. It went on for years until someone caught him in the act. He was actually prosecuted for theft. The police found his car full of stolen cache containers. He received a slap on the wrist from the court and after that he was no longer an issue. But instances of dedicated cache thieves are rare. The few get bored after a few months as long as they don't receive undue attention.

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Back on topic. I looked at the surrounding area of the two caches. Though some haven't been found for awhile I am not seeing much in DNFs. And some being higher difficulty. Curious on the newbie having two different names one here and one on GC.

Edited by jellis
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I looked at the list of nearby caches to the area you found your first 2 in and it appears only https://www.geocaching.com/geocache/GC4MMYT_history-tour-of-dundalk-general-john-stricker has been "looted." Did you read the description of each cache to make sure you know what you are in for. I find that if I read the description of the cache, I can make a find on it. Some places I go I get a little confused but then I read "its in a nice tree" and then I turn and look in a tree and there it is. Checking to see if it has been found recently is a good thing to check for to. If it's been found chances are its there you may've had GPS coords off, or it may be difficult to find. I've found that sometimes coords are off for caches and then I come back and make a find with the new updated coords.

 

A cache near me https://www.geocaching.com/geocache/GC23R84_the-wagemaker originally had bad coords. My mom and I looked for a long time but then I saw the coords were updated and we made an easy find there.

 

What I'm saying is, if you don't find the cache and you think theres an issue log a "did not find" log. Also a tip is to "watch" cache listings near you you will get a sense of whether other cachers have problems with the caches or not.

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This is EXTREMELY frustrating and tiring

I am glad you are giving the game a go! It is fun but a big part of the fun and game is going to a location and searching for the cache. There are some caches placed so you can just walk up to the location and instantly find the cache and sign the log and get the find. Those should be rated pretty low in difficulty.

 

However part of the fun of being a geocache hider it to place a cache at the posted coords that is kind of hard to find. Make the person looking look around for a while at the spot to later realize they were looking right at it. A lot of hiders put a lot of time and thought into doing this. That is a part of the game that is supposed to make it fun not EXTREMELY frustrating and tiring. Think after you have found around 200 caches or more. How much fun would it be to just go find another one that was really obvious. It would get really boring. It is the ones you have to really look for and then have that WOW moment when you see what they came up with to make it blend in so well.

 

I would say to give it more time and maybe go with some easy ones to start. I think after a while you will like the ones that are harder to find. Some here don't like the actual part of looking for the hidden cache and still have made a fun hobbie out of the game. It is all what you make of it but you can't expect to just walk up and find the cache all the time as that isn't how this game always works.

 

Hope you stick with it and if you ever get to the point of hiding one yourself I am sure you will start to think of "How can I hide this one so it is kind of hard to find"

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